- Apr 9, 2021
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- Thread starter Glacerose
- Start date
- Jul 8, 2017
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Lilian ... Serra ... I am sorry we couldn't protect you...
While I perfectly understand and embrace the changes regarding the game world and mechanics for the sake of the dev's sanity and mental well being, I really can't accept Serra and Lilian new designs.
Lilian original design carried the image of a lazy shut-in while still being cute and attractive. The new design simply looks like a corpse and the fringe haircut suits her less than the left parting.
As for Serra If I am honest I never was a big fan of her over the top quirkiness nor the 3rd person speech so personality-wise this is a welcome change. However, regarding her physical design, what happened Glace ? What went wrong here ? We went from an Asian looking LI which was a nice addition to break off from a mainly occidental cast, to a generic-looking nerd, not that pretty either, with nothing to set her apart from the rest.
While I perfectly understand and embrace the changes regarding the game world and mechanics for the sake of the dev's sanity and mental well being, I really can't accept Serra and Lilian new designs.
Lilian original design carried the image of a lazy shut-in while still being cute and attractive. The new design simply looks like a corpse and the fringe haircut suits her less than the left parting.
As for Serra If I am honest I never was a big fan of her over the top quirkiness nor the 3rd person speech so personality-wise this is a welcome change. However, regarding her physical design, what happened Glace ? What went wrong here ? We went from an Asian looking LI which was a nice addition to break off from a mainly occidental cast, to a generic-looking nerd, not that pretty either, with nothing to set her apart from the rest.
- Dec 1, 2019
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- 14,324
Phew ...
First of all, a dev's gotta do what a dev's gotta do. If you hate a character, there's probably no way going forward with him/her.
However, this indeed is a major change. I am not talking about the question whether old or new characters look better, but giving up the whole style - which to me seemed like a major unique selling point, an unapologetic weeb doing manga style characters in dazed - surely will ruffle some feathers. Having this more natural look will mean you'll have to compete with every other game instead of immediately standing out.
Also this being the third major rework "to square one" (basically having to redo all renders) also does not inspire confidence that this will ever get finished. The problem of "getting better" and not liking the old stuff anymore and wanting to redo it is one many devs face, and many will go back, however, that is an eternal circle, since you will keep getting better at whatever detail irks you the most (which often may be ones others don't even notice, just like that small scar above the lip you always see in the mirror and nobody, not even your girlfriend, ever noticed), and technics will keep getting better, there will be better computers, better software, better everything. At some point you gotta roll with it and say "this has to be good enough for now, but just wait for my next project when I will be able to show off everything I learned by now".
Let me finish however by how I started: if you couldn't go on anymore, you shouldn't. Personal "sanity" (too big a word here but can't think of another) is more important than everything else. Just, if this should be a business for the foreseeable future, make sure you really, really don't want to.
First of all, a dev's gotta do what a dev's gotta do. If you hate a character, there's probably no way going forward with him/her.
However, this indeed is a major change. I am not talking about the question whether old or new characters look better, but giving up the whole style - which to me seemed like a major unique selling point, an unapologetic weeb doing manga style characters in dazed - surely will ruffle some feathers. Having this more natural look will mean you'll have to compete with every other game instead of immediately standing out.
Also this being the third major rework "to square one" (basically having to redo all renders) also does not inspire confidence that this will ever get finished. The problem of "getting better" and not liking the old stuff anymore and wanting to redo it is one many devs face, and many will go back, however, that is an eternal circle, since you will keep getting better at whatever detail irks you the most (which often may be ones others don't even notice, just like that small scar above the lip you always see in the mirror and nobody, not even your girlfriend, ever noticed), and technics will keep getting better, there will be better computers, better software, better everything. At some point you gotta roll with it and say "this has to be good enough for now, but just wait for my next project when I will be able to show off everything I learned by now".
Let me finish however by how I started: if you couldn't go on anymore, you shouldn't. Personal "sanity" (too big a word here but can't think of another) is more important than everything else. Just, if this should be a business for the foreseeable future, make sure you really, really don't want to.
honestly seeing how many redesigns have been made all the way back from sylphia island till now maybe hold the game development for a bit and figure out what you want. at this rate you will be putting more time into redesigning than progressing the story. for me personally it was already difficult to follow with the old sylphine characters (as i would prefer sylphia islands characters far more) but the story was interesting enough to keep my with it. i don't know if that's true anymore. actually the only one i can agree with would be alex. so as said my advice would be take a few months or so off and draw out/write out what you want. i can see how for some it might feel like a dog going kennel crazy from being brought back to donation shelters to often making them go crazy and often have to be put down. don't let the game go that way as the story so far is decent.
Well, this doesn't bode well at all.
First of all, you being transparent is great. I'd say normally it would the bare minimum, but because of the Icstros and likes, it's a standout thing if you come out like this, something that the vast majority of the developers won't do because there were examples when others didn't and got away with it. That said, it doesn't make it okay, not at all.
Now onto why this is problematic.
The most obvious one are the design changes. I get it, you wanted something more realistic, but this is a story with magic and fantasy, so most of the realism doesn't have to stand there, and instead of realistic, the characters just became more generic. As others mentioned, it was also one of the main appeal of the game, the unique designs. Alex being changed to an older sister from a mother isn't something warranted, since she's literally the same age as the parents of the characters, and raised them, so the "mom" image fitted her perfectly. Shifting her to an older sister would require changes in her backstory as well then. Speaking of, that already had some issues, with how some of the important revelations regarding to her were just shrugged over, like that her relationship with the MC's mom was the reason why his parents splitted. Celeste is also a victim of this generalization, with the typical blonde pigtailed hairstyle. Maybe you wanted her to be more tsundere, but the "wishywashy middle ground" did actually work, because anyone well versed in manga and japanese literature in general, knows that in order to find a realistic tsundere, you'd have to look around in a mental institute, that's how big of an issue would a personality like that in real life. Gracie is fine, but Serra and Lilian looks straight ugly now. People grew fond of these looks for a reason, and now that got taken out of the equation.
For the map change and the whole world change in general, I don't have a problem with. Yeah, it's gonna take away some flavor and will give some, although that again will require and extensive rewrite on the base scenario itself.
The biggest issue is though, is the practice of this decision making. As others pointed out again, this is the third extensive revamp of the game since it took off, and it's still at the very beginning. Having a "vision" and then changing core parts of the game constantly, doesn't work well with each other. This type of perfectionist approach will also never bring anything good with it, often developers had fallen into this trap, and eventually decided to just give up on the game altogether, because it was still wasn't "there". Chainzero is a prime example of that, and even with his game there wasn't anything majorly wrong, he just felt he should do better. There's no guarantee that you won't decide again that the game should be changed extensively, scraping the majority of the progess, especially from the players point of view, and to an extent from yours as well.
I hope that after the revamp, you'll stick to what you created for the core parts, because this type of approach especially on the long run will bring nothing but a huge amount of frustration both for your players and to you, which given your already existing anxiety issues, won't be nice.
First of all, you being transparent is great. I'd say normally it would the bare minimum, but because of the Icstros and likes, it's a standout thing if you come out like this, something that the vast majority of the developers won't do because there were examples when others didn't and got away with it. That said, it doesn't make it okay, not at all.
Now onto why this is problematic.
The most obvious one are the design changes. I get it, you wanted something more realistic, but this is a story with magic and fantasy, so most of the realism doesn't have to stand there, and instead of realistic, the characters just became more generic. As others mentioned, it was also one of the main appeal of the game, the unique designs. Alex being changed to an older sister from a mother isn't something warranted, since she's literally the same age as the parents of the characters, and raised them, so the "mom" image fitted her perfectly. Shifting her to an older sister would require changes in her backstory as well then. Speaking of, that already had some issues, with how some of the important revelations regarding to her were just shrugged over, like that her relationship with the MC's mom was the reason why his parents splitted. Celeste is also a victim of this generalization, with the typical blonde pigtailed hairstyle. Maybe you wanted her to be more tsundere, but the "wishywashy middle ground" did actually work, because anyone well versed in manga and japanese literature in general, knows that in order to find a realistic tsundere, you'd have to look around in a mental institute, that's how big of an issue would a personality like that in real life. Gracie is fine, but Serra and Lilian looks straight ugly now. People grew fond of these looks for a reason, and now that got taken out of the equation.
For the map change and the whole world change in general, I don't have a problem with. Yeah, it's gonna take away some flavor and will give some, although that again will require and extensive rewrite on the base scenario itself.
The biggest issue is though, is the practice of this decision making. As others pointed out again, this is the third extensive revamp of the game since it took off, and it's still at the very beginning. Having a "vision" and then changing core parts of the game constantly, doesn't work well with each other. This type of perfectionist approach will also never bring anything good with it, often developers had fallen into this trap, and eventually decided to just give up on the game altogether, because it was still wasn't "there". Chainzero is a prime example of that, and even with his game there wasn't anything majorly wrong, he just felt he should do better. There's no guarantee that you won't decide again that the game should be changed extensively, scraping the majority of the progess, especially from the players point of view, and to an extent from yours as well.
I hope that after the revamp, you'll stick to what you created for the core parts, because this type of approach especially on the long run will bring nothing but a huge amount of frustration both for your players and to you, which given your already existing anxiety issues, won't be nice.
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as i said before i can agree with alex being more like a big sister than being so motherly as you said but for the rest after some thinking a mix of last version and this new version might keep a few more people on board and get the results you want.
- Sep 5, 2019
- 6,357
- 7,555
Well I was given a full refund for my year pledge I did in February, so not being a cunt, I am out of this thread, I really did love what this game was.
Best of luck Glacerose.
Best of luck Glacerose.
- Sep 22, 2017
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When changes this big happen to games people will often react very negatively. Personally I don't have any issues with the new characters' designs and I wasn't a very big fan of the two world system, so having just one world is definitely an improvement, at least for me. But I get why some people will be/are upset, they already invested time and some of them money in the old version of the game so it must be frustrating for them to see the game being remade yet again.
I got used to the color-coded characters but new redesigns are fine too. Colored hair are overrated anyway.
- Jun 8, 2020
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posted my thoughts on Patreon page. Highly dissapointed. Very sad.
- Mar 31, 2020
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Although I don't mind the changes overall, I really do think the new look of Serra and Lilian could be improved.
I feel like colorful hair was a big part of the game, also won't it be lot of work to redo all scenes?
Well i'll still try the game with the new designs.
- Nov 11, 2020
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Glacerose , First off, thank you for your honestly. While I cannot say I like all the changes, or the upcoming complete revamp, you have to be the one to make the decisions on how the game progresses.
More to the point, you MUST do what is best for you. As the husband of someone who has medical anxiety and who has just been diagnosed with her greatest medical fear (cancer), I understand to some extent what you are going through. As a support person, all I can do is support them and provide them with moral support and hugs when possible. Do what you need to do to keep your head clear and move forward.
I will miss the look of the girls going forward, but aside from the change in hair color (my biggest thing), I guess I can give it a shot and try to get used to it, but I will morn my beloved Lillian and Sera's original looks. However, Sera had BETTER get her smile back! I loved that smile.
I was planning on getting my wife into this game if it progressed well, but we will have to wait. Her current favorite is Harem Hotel but I feel she'll really like Sylphine as well. Hopefully, it'll give her something to look forward to.
Do what you need to do to keep yourself grounded. I'll continue to follow, and if my finances allow, will support you in the future, but current medical expenses make that prohibitive. At least, you don't have to refund me anything
(not that I would have asked).Edited to fix my @ mistake.
Eric Grey
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- Dec 1, 2019
- 8,439
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Small annotation: Englen is just the messenger, the dev is Glacerose.Englen, First off, thank you for your honestly. While I cannot say I like all the changes, or the upcoming complete revamp, you have to be the one to make the decisions on how the game progresses.
More to the point, you MUST do what is best for you. As the husband of someone who has medical anxiety and who has just been diagnosed with her greatest medical fear (cancer), I understand to some extent what you are going through. As a support person, all I can do is support them and provide them with moral support and hugs when possible. Do what you need to do to keep your head clear and move forward.
I will miss the look of the girls going forward, but aside from the change in hair color (my biggest thing), I guess I can give it a shot and try to get used to it, but I will morn my beloved Lillian and Sera's original looks. However, Sera had BETTER get her smile back! I loved that smile.
I was planning on getting my wife into this game if it progressed well, but we will have to wait. Her current favorite is Harem Hotel but I feel she'll really like Sylphine as well. Hopefully, it'll give her something to look forward to.
Do what you need to do to keep yourself grounded. I'll continue to follow, and if my finances allow, will support you in the future, but current medical expenses make that prohibitive. At least, you don't have to refund me anything
- Nov 11, 2020
- 435
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Thanks. I should have had more coffee before posting that, LOL. I've fixed it.
Eric GreyI don't have a problem with new designs, but the thing is, I've gotten used to old characters and imho there was nothing wrong with them.
Other users mostly voiced what I wanted to say such as quote bellow, so I won't repeat all that.
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About the world changes... I understand how maintaining two worlds would be difficult. Basically 2x work, but maybe there were, let's say, less wasteful ways to handle this. For example, maybe over the period of next update or two all or most future content could be moved to one of the dimensions, effectively quietly abandoning the other dimension and slashing the work in half. Given the nature of story, it would make sense to move most of the content to magical world. Just an idea...
Speaking of slashing work... when I reached the point where you choose class/guild the first thought I had was, while this is interesting, it's going to take a lot of effort creating content for all these separate routes/guilds. Maybe that's also something to look at now that you're restarting.
I'm sure this is all very stressful. It sounds like this is a big personal project for you, however the truth is when you go "public" it's no longer 100% "yours" and things can get very complicated. There could be a lot more said about that, but you probably understand.
btw, is subscribe star link legitimate? I mean does it really belong to dev? Just asking because the page looks weird/there is nothing there.
- Dec 31, 2020
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While i'm a bit sad that the girls lost their hair colors, i have no problem with the new models, they look just as good as the old ones to me. I especially like the new models for Gacie, makes her look more like a farmhand, wich i really like, and Serra, i think she looks way better now. The only nitpick i have is that Lillians hair probably needs some work.
- Mar 15, 2020
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My 2 cents:
In general, the redesigns are mostly good, but I feel like the models lost a little of their uniqueness. Particularly their hair colours.
The only redesign I actively dislike is Lillian's, because I think the model from 0.2 was exceptional and more than unique, not because the redesign has any issues. Having said that, I see why the changes would need to take place.
As for the story, I like that Lillian is unchanged. For the rest I'll have to play to see if the changes to the story and mechanics are good, but I think they'll be okay.
Lastly, thank Cthulhu that the maps are merged. The two maps system was fine in 0.2, but it could easily become a chore to move between worlds to finish quests.
In general, the redesigns are mostly good, but I feel like the models lost a little of their uniqueness. Particularly their hair colours.
The only redesign I actively dislike is Lillian's, because I think the model from 0.2 was exceptional and more than unique, not because the redesign has any issues. Having said that, I see why the changes would need to take place.
As for the story, I like that Lillian is unchanged. For the rest I'll have to play to see if the changes to the story and mechanics are good, but I think they'll be okay.
Lastly, thank Cthulhu that the maps are merged. The two maps system was fine in 0.2, but it could easily become a chore to move between worlds to finish quests.
Glacerose If you couldn't work with the old characters anymore, I get needing to change them. I think the new girls definitely look more realistic in some cases, and are cute, but I also definitely will miss some of the old looks. Doesn't really matter which ones, though, since you said this was something you needed to do to move forward.
As for the world and the story, I'll wait to see what you come up with. Understanding you've bitten off more than you can chew, and doing what you need to do to fix it is a hard thing.
I've liked a lot of what you've done so far, so I hold out hope that what you come up with will be as good or better in the long run.
Oh, and for the record, I very much disagree with the people who say any of the characters are ugly. I might feel the other girls looked cuter in some instances, but the new girls are all still very attractive to me. I think it might, in some cases, just be a case of people being so into the looks they had before that it makes their reactions to the new looks more extreme.
As for the world and the story, I'll wait to see what you come up with. Understanding you've bitten off more than you can chew, and doing what you need to do to fix it is a hard thing.
I've liked a lot of what you've done so far, so I hold out hope that what you come up with will be as good or better in the long run.
Oh, and for the record, I very much disagree with the people who say any of the characters are ugly. I might feel the other girls looked cuter in some instances, but the new girls are all still very attractive to me. I think it might, in some cases, just be a case of people being so into the looks they had before that it makes their reactions to the new looks more extreme.
Not reading any comments for my own mental health, just posting short and sweet (already poured my heart out on patreon)
Changes to the story and world are for the better. I fucked up and overextended myself and I can suck my pride up and admit I thought I was better than I was.
Character changes Ive been wanting for a while as Ive been on the same exact designs since HS days and its old. I dont feel love for them anymore.
If you disagree, thats fair. Its expected that most will. I failed your vision and I accept that. But I cant work on something I feel is overstretched and not gonna work for me.
If you desire a patreon refund, please message me on Patreon or at GlaceroseDev@gmail.com and I will more than happily refund your last months pledge.
Thank you.
Changes to the story and world are for the better. I fucked up and overextended myself and I can suck my pride up and admit I thought I was better than I was.
Character changes Ive been wanting for a while as Ive been on the same exact designs since HS days and its old. I dont feel love for them anymore.
If you disagree, thats fair. Its expected that most will. I failed your vision and I accept that. But I cant work on something I feel is overstretched and not gonna work for me.
If you desire a patreon refund, please message me on Patreon or at GlaceroseDev@gmail.com and I will more than happily refund your last months pledge.
Thank you.