VN Ren'Py The Adventurous Couple [TACOS Part 9b] [Mircom3D]

[NewTricks]

Think about the choices you've been making all the way through this game. Think hard about them and who's enacting them.

Aren't you playing an Anne-POV game?

Yes, it's technically multiple-POV because the husband's banging anyone with an available hole (if you make those choices), but about 99.9% of Anne's choices are presented as hers, not her husband's. That's an Anne-POV game.

Huh? Watsit? In an Anne POV game it shouldn't be Anne or her husband making her decisions, but the player. All the partner's choices should be presented as their own, even if they ask permission or seek input from the other partner. So that number shouldn't be 99% but 100% unless I missed a rape scene somewhere.

I'm not just being an ass. Let's talk about my game in development. X and Y both make their own decisions which are decisions made directly by the player. Each has a fixed bank of relationship points and when they spend them on a potential partner they are gone forever. If they don't spend them on their mutual relationship, it suffers. In the game, neither of them can have sex with anyone (including each other) without the player's affirmative consent and a sufficient number of relationship points. This is my design for my multiple protagonists and multiple POV game. And it is super hard to do which is why I haven't unveiled it yet. It is going to take a lot of work.

Anyway back to this one. Anne's decisions are her own, clearly, but in essence, the decisions of her husband (the player) give her a framework in which she makes them. Only the husband makes decisions that affect relationship points, cuck status, swinger status, and so forth. It is these numbers that determine whether Anne will lie about who she is sleeping with, proudly brag about it, rub his nose in it, whatever. Although she is the star of the show, even more than a co-lead, she isn't positioned as the POV character because in very few instances does the player directly make a decision for her.

Now there is some wiggle room here. At the very least the few times that the player has control of Anne are pivotal decisions. Let's look at a similar game in development called Watching My Wife. I find it fascinating. The structure of that game is telling the story on alternating days, once from the husband's point of view, where all decisions are made, and the same day from the wife's point of view where we hear her thoughts and see what decisions she makes when the husband is not around. But the player doesn't play as her per se, just watch in a voyeuristic fashion as her side of the story unfolds like a kinetic novel. So is this a multiple protagonist game? In structure, yes, but in terms of player agency, the decisions you make are even more disconnected from what she does than is the case in this game. So TAC exists in between the continuum of my game (make all decisions for a couple) and Watching my Wife (make only decisions as the husband and reap the consequences).

So what do you think? This is a more interesting discussion than most of the ones on the thread currently.

 

[asplly97]

Anyone has the new teaser pics?

 

[aqq88]

Anyone has the new teaser pics?

Nope , would be nice if someone could share

 

[Adviar5050]

I have been one of the people who have advocated for more of Annie's POV. However I don't want to play completely as Annie I just want some hints of what she is thinking (some). For instance when she is screwing troy on the cruise he asks her are you doing this more for you or because that is what your husband wants. I would have liked to know what was going on in her head or give the player the option to choose how she feels about it. Maybe that's why the developer wrote it this way, to add the mystery I don't know. What is interesting is if you choose the walker option you do get to see a little more into Annie's thinking. I just wonder if we will see more of it.

 

[Segnbora]

Huh? Watsit? In an Anne POV game it shouldn't be Anne or her husband making her decisions, but the player. All the partner's choices should be presented as their own, even if they ask permission or seek input from the other partner.

I'm just responding to your contention that people would bristle at playing as Anne. Anyone playing this game is already playing as Anne a great deal of the time. If there's been pushback, it's been extremely quiet.

So that number shouldn't be 99% but 100% unless I missed a rape scene somewhere.

Most of their early "adventurous" escapades are driven by choices made by the husband. The first few encounters in Punta Cana are initiated by him. On the last day of that vacation, however, Anne makes her own choices. In the threesome with Dre, the husband chooses whether or not to join and that's the only choice available in the scene. On the other hand, when Anne's on the beach with Marcus, Martin, the guy with whom she did anal, etc., it's her making those choices. Anne chooses to have sex with Mike behind the restrooms without any input from the husband. Anne's spa threesome and hot tub anal scenes have nothing to do with the husband. Nor does letting her doctor sodomize her. I could go on, but you get the point. The deeper into this the couple gets, the more frequent it is that Anne's making her own decisions when it comes to sex, and without going back through the game and making a tally, I strongly believe that, by this point, the vast majority of Anne's liaisons come from decisions made by her. Which, as I said, means that anyone clicking on those choices is already playing as Anne more often than not.

Your point about, well, points is only partially true. Points control Anne's behavior in the code, but on the screen it's Anne making a lot of the decisions that result.

TAC is somewhat unusual in that most female-POV games in which the woman has multiple infidelitous partners are Bambi in Lechertown corruption/victimization games, which is one of the two major reasons dudes complain about having to play the female POV. (The other is that they want to immerse as the person doing the fucking rather than the person being fucked, which is obviously impossible in a female-POV game, and what makes the lack of complaint here so unusual.) Corruption is a constant presence throughout TAC, and at the very beginning the source of the corruption is the husband, but it doesn't take very long for the corruption to be something Anne not only willingly embraces, but controls. In the Lechertown genre, Bambi rarely has control over anything, especially sex. In TAC, Anne has a tremendous amount of control, and there's a point in the story in which the husband is confronted by the fact that he no longer has any, save for his own extramarital adventures.

 

[Segnbora]

I have been one of the people who have advocated for more of Annie's POV. However I don't want to play completely as Annie I just want some hints of what she is thinking (some).

In comment threads for pretty much any game in which there's sharing/swinging/the dreaded N word/cheating it quickly becomes clear that there are a lot of different preferences: some people want full involvement, others full disclosure, others resistance, others suspicion and doubt, still others complete ignorance. There's no way a linear story can satisfy all those contrary desires, but there's a really easy way for VNs like this one to do exactly that, and if I ever come up with a game idea that I like enough to pursue, it's what I'd do.

Using TAC as an example: render a version in which Anne (and her husband) take advantage of every single sexual opportunity. Then write and code to allow the player a variety of experiences. One where the couple are enthusiastic about absolutely everything, and we see every scene as it happens. One where Anne is constantly cheating on her oblivious husband, and we see the scenes but the husband is never clued in. One in which the husband's cuckolding fetish is explicitly indulged, and all Anne's activities are recounted (and shown) after the fact, while in bed with her husband. One in which we know exactly what Anne's thinking (with sub-branches in which she's happy or unhappy with her marriage), and one in which Anne's an increasingly closed book. I could name a dozen more possibilities, but everyone gets the point. And the best part is, it can all be done over the same renders; the only changes are in the pathing and the writing.

I wouldn't hope for too much of that here. There've been some pretty major tonal shifts — husband pushing/Anne reluctant, adventures as a couple, Anne essentially shutting her husband out of her activities, back to more of a shared experience, indifference to the point of contempt — and I just don't think there's enough editorial focus to give you what you're looking for. It's a shame, too...because, like you, I'd like to know more about what's going on in Anne's head. (And, also, I think her husband's an irritating, barely literate child, so I'm thoroughly exhausted by his perspective.)

 

[jeroentje]

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[Nurikabe]

The discussion seems to be stuck on the meaning of point of view and perspective. Typically, most stories (including this one) have a single point of view — the story is seen through the eyes of one person. However, we are able to see many perspectives throughout any given story. TAC is a first-person subjective story. We see and hear the thoughts of the MC and experience the story with the MC. The player's choices directly affect the story and the perspective of each event (how each event is perceived by each character).

The beauty of storytelling is that we do not have to write a story with a third-person omniscient perspective to understand what each character thinks or feels. Understanding each characters' experience is done through perspective.

I have been one of the people who have advocated for more of Annie's POV. However I don't want to play completely as Annie I just want some hints of what she is thinking (some). For instance when she is screwing troy on the cruise he asks her are you doing this more for you or because that is what your husband wants. I would have liked to know what was going on in her head or give the player the option to choose how she feels about it.

There are many clues to Anne's perspective. The primary means are through her actions and direct communication. From the beginning, we see a minor resistance to her husband's suggestions to a complete acceptance and acceptance of what makes her sexually fulfilled. She engages in extreme sexual behavior without input from her husband, without conveying her actions to her husband, and without complaint or behavior alterations indicating dislike or disagreement. Those actions speak volumes of her point of view and her perspective on the activities. Another means of ascertaining perspective is the relationship points. This is a direct means of viewing Anne's opinion of events and her husband. The ONLY time we see disgust for anything from Anne's perspective is when she gets angry with her husband for stopping her behavior.

Incidentally, if we are going to trust Anne, she does say that she does these things FOR her husband...to make him happy, during the boat scene with Troy.

... Anne makes her own choices. In the threesome with Dre, the husband chooses whether or not to join and that's the only choice available in the scene. On the other hand, when Anne's on the beach with Marcus, Martin, the guy with whom she did anal, etc., it's her making those choices. Anne chooses to have sex with Mike behind the restrooms without any input from the husband. Anne's spa threesome and hot tub anal scenes have nothing to do with the husband. Nor does letting her doctor sodomize her. I could go on, but you get the point.

Conflict in readers can occur when the perspective of a player is violated through poor storytelling. One advantage of visual novels is a story that has multiple choices and endings. As, Segnbora explained, using a single render and multiple perspectives, an effective storyteller is able to write a completely different narrative, show a completely different take on a scene, all by changing the perspective. There are limits to how far a writer can alter perspective. Sudden unexplained changes in behavior or doing something "out of character" causes the reader to question the created reality. Bending it too much can literally break the reader's ability to understand, believe in, or tolerate a story.

... There've been some pretty major tonal shifts — husband pushing/Anne reluctant, adventures as a couple, Anne essentially shutting her husband out of her activities, back to more of a shared experience, indifference to the point of contempt...

Those shifts in perspective break the flow of what Anne's character as a woman deeply in love with her husband and wanting to share an adventure would do. Her character has been stretched (Ugh, the pun) beyond what the story is able to keep up with. Too much, too fast, and with varying emotions. Readers are sophisticated but have limits on what they can accept as probable, likable, and desirable.

 

[Nurikabe]

...(And, also, I think her husband's an irritating, barely literate child, so I'm thoroughly exhausted by his perspective.)

I want to point out an interesting difference in my thinking. There are some that agree — the husband is a douchebag that deserves what he gets. And still, others agree that the wife is out of control and can no longer tolerate her in the story. (There are even more people who are completely fine with the whole thing!)

I do not see corruption being an aspect of this story whatsoever. Anne's behavior was extreme when she was in college sharing boyfriends with Nicole. She met the MC, fell in love, got married...and here we are. Now they want to spice up the bedroom life with his fantasy becoming a reality. This is how that conversation goes:

MC "You know how we had talked about spicing up our sex life?"​

Anne "Yeah!"​

MC "Well, today I was doing some searching on the internet about this and found a very interesting site"​

Anne "Ok! go on."​

MC "It's like it was made specifically for us, it's for couples who want to spice things up and be a little more adventurous"​

MC "Once a week they email out activities for the couples to try"​

Anne "Sounds interesting, what kind of activities are we talking about?"​

MC "They didn't list what the activities were but when looking through the forum on their site, some of the other members wrote in comments about what they had done"​

MC "A few people mentioned doing Pizza delivery dares where the wife opens the door with little to no clothing"​

Anne "Hmmm, you know I like to show off a little so...I may be interested, how do we join this group?"​

MC "I can sign us up if you want?"​

Anne "Ok let's give it a try. It doesn't sound that bad and might be a lot of fun."​

Where is the corruption? MC presents Anne with an opportunity to spice up their love life, as they had previously discussed, and she takes him up on it. Corruption in the decaying behavior of Anne? Sure, but that is a completely different thing.

 

[Segnbora]

Corruption in the decaying behavior of Anne? Sure, but that is a completely different thing.

It's still corruption, and that's exactly what I'm talking about. Both main characters quickly grow addicted to the sex, to the adrenaline rush. The husband is increasingly addicted to Anne whoring herself out; Anne is increasingly addicted to sex with other people, and eventually addicted to using it as a way to control her husband. They have both, quite literally, been corrupted. Corruption isn't just about turning an innocent into a slut. Corruption is also about nursing a tiny flame into an all-consuming conflagration. Both parties are, by now, consumed by something neither of them can completely control.

Corruption is a massive part of this narrative.

 

[Sadowdark]

Do your choices matter in this game. Are there forced scenes that can be skipped. Are there any other routes besides coruption?

 

[PTM666]

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Someone post the teaser pics

 

[Nurikabe]

Do your choices matter in this game. Are there forced scenes that can be skipped. Are there any other routes besides coruption?

Your choices will determine whether the MC has a good relationship with his wife, and in the beginning, your choices determine whether or not Anne will choose three main lovers. After that, choices are really limited to who the MC sleeps with and how present he is when Anne sleeps with others.

It is my opinion that the routes are limited to cuck, cheating with MC knowledge, and cheating without MC knowledge. As an add-on, MC faithful or unfaithful route.

But seriously, play the game and see what you think!

 

[Nurikabe]

It's still corruption, and that's exactly what I'm talking about. Both main characters quickly grow addicted to the sex, to the adrenaline rush. The husband is increasingly addicted to Anne whoring herself out; Anne is increasingly addicted to sex with other people, and eventually addicted to using it as a way to control her husband. They have both, quite literally, been corrupted. Corruption isn't just about turning an innocent into a slut. Corruption is also about nursing a tiny flame into an all-consuming conflagration. Both parties are, by now, consumed by something neither of them can completely control.

Corruption is a massive part of this narrative.

Corruption is the methodical process of making a good person do bad things (dumbed down to simple words). Taking someone who would never do something, like an innocent housewife or young girl, and making her do increasingly naughty things to nurse the flame of desire and make her want to do it on her own.

This game is more like: MC says we should join, Anne says absolutely. Then Anne fucks everyone. There is no nursing. He doesn't have to keep prodding or training or encouraging. Anne was never innocent, to begin with.

Sure, the potential to write this as a corruption story exists. But that is not what this writer has demonstrated. (You should write it! )

 

[NewTricks]

I want to point out an interesting difference in my thinking. There are some that agree — the husband is a douchebag that deserves what he gets. And still, others agree that the wife is out of control and can no longer tolerate her in the story. (There are even more people who are completely fine with the whole thing!)

I do not see corruption being an aspect of this story whatsoever. Anne's behavior was extreme when she was in college sharing boyfriends with Nicole. She met the MC, fell in love, got married...and here we are. Now they want to spice up the bedroom life with his fantasy becoming a reality. This is how that conversation goes:

MC "You know how we had talked about spicing up our sex life?"​

Anne "Yeah!"​

MC "Well, today I was doing some searching on the internet about this and found a very interesting site"​

Anne "Ok! go on."​

MC "It's like it was made specifically for us, it's for couples who want to spice things up and be a little more adventurous"​

MC "Once a week they email out activities for the couples to try"​

Anne "Sounds interesting, what kind of activities are we talking about?"​

MC "They didn't list what the activities were but when looking through the forum on their site, some of the other members wrote in comments about what they had done"​

MC "A few people mentioned doing Pizza delivery dares where the wife opens the door with little to no clothing"​

Anne "Hmmm, you know I like to show off a little so...I may be interested, how do we join this group?"​

MC "I can sign us up if you want?"​

Anne "Ok let's give it a try. It doesn't sound that bad and might be a lot of fun."​

Where is the corruption? MC presents Anne with an opportunity to spice up their love life, as they had previously discussed, and she takes him up on it. Corruption in the decaying behavior of Anne? Sure, but that is a completely different thing.

I tend to agree that one way or another Anne is giving her husband what he wanted. If he wants to swing, they swing. If he indicates he is into being cuckolded she cucks him as hard as she can. If he just wants to be a voyeur she gives him something to look at. Corruption isn't really an issue since she always has been a wild child yet was relatively content with their committed monogamous relationship. But it is clear that he wasn't, and even in the most depraved corners of her unhappy run she wants to keep him and please him. I think this may cause cognitive dissonance in many players since we are nor privy to her thoughts and just have to guess why it is that she escalates things so quickly, or makes odd decisions like lying about being tired on the vacation so she can stalk him while he is playing pool. Does she not care or does she care too much? Does she distrust her husband because at the end of the day she knows that she is untrustworthy? What does she want out of their marriage? We might never know and at the end of the game she will probably pack her bags and walk out the door having never revealed any of this.

 

[Segnbora]

Your choices will determine whether the MC has a good relationship with his wife, and in the beginning, your choices determine whether or not Anne will choose three main lovers. After that, choices are really limited to who the MC sleeps with and how present he is when Anne sleeps with others.

Absolutely, but adding one footnote: there is a "forced" element to the choices, in that you can't actually proceed through the game without being, in some sense, supportive of Anne having sex with other people. There are a number of ways the game can end early, and the easiest is to get things started and then try to pump the brakes. Even if you don't try to stop her, being sour about it will make your relationship difficult, at best.

Corruption is the methodical process of making a good person do bad things (dumbed down to simple words). Taking someone who would never do something, like an innocent housewife or young girl, and making her do increasingly naughty things to nurse the flame of desire and make her want to do it on her own.

It's broader than that. For example, the well-known saying "power corrupts" (and its usual coda) has nothing to do with innocence or a path towards depravity. That sort of corruption is about pursuing something until it overtakes one's life.

That's the type of corruption at work here. Our titular couple pursued non-monogamy to spice up their marriage and now they can't stop. (Literally; trying to stop ends the relationship.)

This game is more like: MC says we should join, Anne says absolutely. Then Anne fucks everyone.

I think you're forgetting the early game. Anne is very reluctant to do anything with others, and is only willing to take baby steps until Punta Cana.

Anne was never innocent, to begin with.

No, but this isn't something we learn until quite a while later. We knew she had a thing with Nicole, but that she'd been wild isn't something we learn until Marcus shows up on the beach, which is pretty far into the game. From the player's perspective, Anne's been pushed into an unfamiliar lifestyle by her husband until that particular revelation.

(You should write it! )

Oh, believe me: the number of times I've wished I could completely transform this particular story...

I think this may cause cognitive dissonance in many players since we are nor privy to her thoughts and just have to guess why it is that she escalates things so quickly, or makes odd decisions like lying about being tired on the vacation so she can stalk him while he is playing pool. Does she not care or does she care too much? Does she distrust her husband because at the end of the day she knows that she is untrustworthy? What does she want out of their marriage? We might never know and at the end of the game she will probably pack her bags and walk out the door having never revealed any of this.

I've always believed that this is "supposed" to end in divorce, and though I doubt that ending will be forced on players, it's very difficult to see how this is, in any sense, healthy and ethical non-monogamy.

But it's absolutely true that a lack of insight into what Anne's really feeling...what she wants, why she's still married to this man-child...makes it too easy for players to make all sorts of assumptions that aren't necessarily supported by the text. I think the idea that Anne's having the best possible time because hubby allows it, and the contrary notion that she's being awful to her husband because she doesn't love or respect him anymore, and the corollary perspective that Anne's punishing her husband for his own unrevealed infidelities, and the common belief that Anne's simply out of control and acting mindlessly, are all equally possible, because the author hasn't bothered to tell us. If he even knows...which I don't think he does, because I don't think it's a question he's asked of his story or his characters.

 

[Nurikabe]

Absolutely, but adding one footnote: there is a "forced" element to the choices, in that you can't actually proceed through the game without being, in some sense, supportive of Anne having sex with other people.

I think you're forgetting the early game. Anne is very reluctant to do anything with others, and is only willing to take baby steps until Punta Cana.

No, but this isn't something we learn until quite a while later. We knew she had a thing with Nicole, but that she'd been wild isn't something we learn until Marcus shows up on the beach, which is pretty far into the game. From the player's perspective, Anne's been pushed into an unfamiliar lifestyle by her husband until that particular revelation.

Whether Anne is on board or if you have to do some coaxing is all a matter of your first few choices in-game.

In my main playthrough and in the run I did yesterday, the prologue illustrates Anne having a threesome with a guy and Nicole. The narration covers how wild she is. Then, once the game begins, we learn that the MC and Anne have discussed spicing up their love life. MC mentions how he wants to move it from fantasy to reality and finds the website.

>Do some research​

>Ask how her day was​

Anne and the MC have dinner where they have the conversation I posted in previous posts. During dinner, MC and Anne will discuss the email club. Anne is completely supportive of signing up and exploring the wild side. It takes no pressure or cajoling. Then you tell her about the email assignment.

Shopping/Dinner/Pizza Guy (X2) and Kenny

Anne will go shopping and dress in front of strangers. She will "turn to give [the stranger] a good view of her body."​

She will say how much she enjoyed flashing the older and younger guys.​

Anne will flash the salesman on her own.​

Stranger at dinner.​

Trip with Kenny and masturbates calling out his name.​

She is excited about flashing the pizza guy.​

They talk about doing more with Kenny and she tells the MC that she is happy he does not pressure her.​

​

Ryan

Anne allows Ryan access to touch her ass.​

Mostly naked massage​

Let's him grope her every time MC leaves the room.​

She wants to touch him but didn't because MC came back.​

Ryan goes down on her. She wants to suck him but doesn't.​

​

Vacation - from here it is all downhill — FAST!

Anne acts on her own throughout the vacation.​

**If you tell her "no" from here on out, it is game over or impactful loss of relationship points.**​

Sex with Cornell.​

Disappointing sex with a bald guy.​

Bartender blowjob.​

Lots of playing with the waiter.​

Threesome with her future lovers.​

Guy on plane.​

Etc.​

Then, once they return and without any coaxing, choices regarding Anne are all but superficial from here on. Anne engages in the biggest sex romp in porn — none of which require choices from the user other than to engage or not engage.

There are a few times when you see Anne's direct point of view (when she recounts the events to the MC, masturbating after the swinging event to name a couple.)

In this playthrough, the MC does not push, force, or continuously ask. He is simply (and frustratingly) along for the ride. The key is those first decisions: Ask about her day > Dinner > then tell her about emails. If you alter those choices, then you have to spend some time convincing her (although, again, not much). It is also of note that while on one of his home lunch visits the MC mentions worrying that Anne might cheat on him even though you have supposedly shut off the cheating path.

And the corruption...

It's broader than that. For example, the well-known saying "power corrupts" (and its usual coda) has nothing to do with innocence or a path towards depravity. That sort of corruption is about pursuing something until it overtakes one's life.

That's the type of corruption at work here. Our titular couple pursued non-monogamy to spice up their marriage and now they can't stop. (Literally; trying to stop ends the relationship.)

Yes, I see that. Quite emphatically if you follow this playthrough.

 

[Segnbora]

Whether Anne is on board or if you have to do some coaxing is all a matter of your first few choices in-game.

I have absolutely no idea what game you're playing. Has Mircom3D completely rewritten the intro? You're forcing me to re-download the game to play the beginning. In the gama I played, Anne said no, or not yet, or too fast to almost everything until the vacation.

 

[Segnbora]

Well, he hasn't rewritten the intro. Anne is just as reluctant as I remembered. There's no choice pattern that makes her less reluctant.

 

[Kylepred89]

Haha some things never change. You can always expect a philosophical debate about a fun but imperfect game in here.

still love it to death.