Ren'Py The DeLuca Family [Season 1] [HopesGaming]

[EJW]

See that was my thought that she was preparing him for this kind of life. Or maybe she was just trying to kill him.

 

[whichone]

See that was my thought that she was preparing him for this kind of life. Or maybe she was just trying to kill him.

lol Funny how the same thing, from a different angle, can turn from child protection\preparation, to child abuse.
Very much Thetis with Achilles!

 

[JJJ84]

I wonder if it was it just a one time thing, with his Mother?
Would certainly make it less of a coincidence, if she'd dosed his immunity against other poison types.
Although, saying she was trying to end her life makes that suspect.

Yeah, there's a lot of hurt for them to deal with. Guess it depends if she's going to be an antagonist, or not.

See that was my thought that she was preparing him for this kind of life. Or maybe she was just trying to kill him.

One thing I think might be certain.
Whoever poisoned the MC in that dinner knew exactly what poison MC got the tolerance for as a child.

Not that it really narrows down the list of suspects all that much, but I'd say that puts it as someone who is very much "in-the-know" of DeLucas' Family business (seen most people's fingers pointing at Wilfred, but I'm not so sure tbh )

 

[EJW]

lol Funny how the same thing, from a different angle, can turn from child protection\preparation, to child abuse.

Well to me it is still child abuse, but we don't know where the mothers mind is at during the whole time he was a kid. She might have grew up in the mafia life and this is how she knows how to raise a child. Unless Hopes tells us we may never know.

 

[whichone]

Well to me it is still child abuse, but we don't know where the mothers mind is at during the whole time he was a kid. She might have grew up in the mafia life and this is how she knows how to raise a child. Unless Hopes tells us we may never know.

Yes, it's undoubtedly abuse, either way.
But the intent does matter. Is she doing it to make him stronger, more able to survive? Or is she doing it maliciously, to cause him harm?
Either way, she's not exactly parent of the year, but one is definitely more justifiable than the other.

 

[EJW]

One thing I think might be certain.
Whoever poisoned the MC in that dinner knew exactly what poison MC got the tolerance for as a child.

Not that it really narrows down the list of suspects all that much, but I'd say that puts it as someone who is very much "in-the-know" of DeLucas' Family business (seen most people's fingers pointing at Wilfred, but I'm not so sure tbh )

As for the poison maybe the family has a favorite type. As for who did it his father has a lot of enemies but I don't think that is it. Until we know more about the past it will be hard to tell who did it.

 

[JJJ84]

Well to me it is still child abuse, but we don't know where the mothers mind is at during the whole time he was a kid. She might have grew up in the mafia life and this is how she knows how to raise a child. Unless Hopes tells us we may never know.

Yeah, it could very much be that Rina & MC's father's side lost the War against Cordia's side and Cordia's side (soldiers) closed in on Rina & MC's house.
Rina, in despair at losing everything could have went into "I'll not let them take me, and I'll not let them take my son (i.e. I'd rather kill him than let them take him)."
But she failed, and MC ended up surviving.

That sort of scenario, I could kinda see (and MC resenting his mom Rina for it).
It would also kinda explain the guilt that Cordia feels for the MC (the latest Cordia's Office recording), with her saying "MC is her responsibility." and Wilfred replying to her saying "What happened to Rina was not your fault, my lady."

Cordia feels responsible/guilt for MC cause her war with Rina and the end result pushed Rina to drastic action (and MC suffered his childhood without his actual mom).


Though above is my possible theory only.
Who knows how it really went down.

 

[whichone]

Yeah, it could very much be that Rina & MC's father's side lost the War against Cordia's side and Cordia's side (soldiers) closed in on Rina & MC's house.
Rina, in despair at losing everything could have went into "I'll not let them take me, and I'll not let them take my son (i.e. I'd rather kill him than let them take him)."
But she failed, and MC ended up surviving.

That sort of scenario, I could kinda see (and MC resenting his mom Rina for it).
It would also kinda explain the guilt that Cordia feels for the MC (the latest Cordia's Office recording), with her saying "MC is her responsibility." and Wilfred replying to her saying "What happened to Rina was not your fault, my lady."


Though above is my possible theory only.
Who knows how it really went down.

That fits well, only problem is the timescales.
If it was the DeLuca's that caused Rina to dose herself & her son, I reckon they'd have taken him at that time.
Unless they deposited him at Kaskars (don't know of the relationship between the two), the gap in timing is quite large.
As you already said, he only met Jalen at school, so wasn't introduced to him until then.

 

[EJW]

That fits well, only problem is the timescales.
If it was the DeLuca's that caused Rina to dose herself & her son, I reckon they'd have taken him at that time.
Unless they deposited him at Kaskars (don't know of the relationship between the two), the gap in timing is quite large.

I don't think they put him with the Kaskars because they have had the reputation of being brutal for a long time if you go by what Gracie says.
My question is about MC contract with DeLuca's. We found out that the guy we found on a mission that he wrote the contract and that he knows dad, but when was the contract wrote up? The way that conversation went it sounded like the contract had been around a while. Maybe I'm misremembered the conversation.

 

[JJJ84]

That fits well, only problem is the timescales.
If it was the DeLuca's that caused Rina to dose herself & her son, I reckon they'd have taken him at that time.
Unless they deposited him at Kaskars (don't know of the relationship between the two), the gap in timing is quite large.
As you already said, he only met Jalen at school, so wasn't introduced to him until then.

Hmmm..... interesting.

The thing is, iirc, MC I think spent time at an orphanage of sorts, before he got older and went to school (where he met Jalen)?
And DeLucas have been continuously keeping tabs on MC from when he was a little child (there's that flashback of Gildart & Wilfred witnessing MC using his cunning to turn his bullies against one another in the playground in that Ombra mission).

So perhaps DeLucas chose not to take MC then, but instead decided to take him when he comes of age (like in the beginning of the game)?
That I think would kind of make sense, he's kept on constant surveillance in his childhood (from Wilfred's intelligence network from the shadows), and in the meantime, MC grows up, and somehow he bonds with Jalen & the Kaskars until the time for his contract arrives.

That's my interpretation of it.

 

[whichone]

I don't think they put him with the Kaskars because they have had the reputation of being brutal for a long time if you go by what Gracie says.
My question is about MC contract with DeLuca's. We found out that the guy we found on a mission that he wrote the contract and that he knows dad, but when was the contract wrote up? The way that conversation went it sounded like the contract had been around a while. Maybe I'm misremembered the conversation.

Yeah, the old man from the 1st contract throws some light onto MC's Father, can't remember what he says now. lol

Hmmm..... interesting.

The thing is, iirc, MC I think spent time at an orphanage of sorts, before he got older and went to school (where he met Jalen)?
And DeLucas have been continuously keeping tabs on MC from when he was a little child (there's that flashback of Gildart & Wilfred witnessing MC using his cunning to turn his bullies against one another in the playground in that Ombra mission).

So perhaps DeLucas chose not to take MC then, but instead decided to take him when he comes of age (like in the beginning of the game)?
That I think would kind of make sense, he's kept on constant surveillance in his childhood (from Wilfred's intelligence network from the shadows), and in the meantime, MC grows up, and somehow he bonds with Jalen & the Kaskars until the time for his contract arrives.

That's my interpretation of it.

Yeah, rather than placing young MC with Kaskars, DeLucas place him in an orphanage (they might even own a couple - good source of Soldatos!).
Then he met Jalen naturally & moved in with them.
We're still missing how he came to be under this contract, or what it actually entails.

 

[EJW]

Yeah, rather than placing young MC with Kaskars, DeLucas place him in an orphanage (they might even own a couple - good source of Soldatos!).
Then he met Jalen naturally & moved in with them.
We're still missing how he came to be under this contract, or what it actually entails.

I think when and what the contract says could shine some light on the past. I thought the contract could have been a way to get the MC out of the bad situation. Maybe the dad did the contract or one of the dad's other kids set it up.
The reason I asked the question of the contract is because why was Alfred watching him as a kid and his whole life. JJJ84 brought up the guilt thing that maybe there was a fallout of the original serpents. Maybe Cordia wanted to keep an eye on him for safety or Wilfred kept an eye on him fearing Riina was training him to get back at the Delucas. Just a thought.

 

[whichone]

I think when and what the contract says could shine some light on the past. I thought the contract could have been a way to get the MC out of the bad situation. Maybe the dad did the contract or one of the dad's other kids set it up.
The reason I asked the question of the contract is because why was Alfred watching him as a kid and his whole life. JJJ84 brought up the guilt thing that maybe there was a fallout of the original serpents. Maybe Cordia wanted to keep an eye on him for safety or Wilfred kept an eye on him fearing Riina was training him to get back at the Delucas. Just a thought.

The most obvious answer to the fallout of the serpents, is that MC's Father was originally with Cordia.
He has his face burned out of the picture that she has.
So the presumption is that he left Cordia, for MC's Mother & that was the end of the original serpents.

I honestly don't know why Cordia would feel guilt. I can certainly see remorse, for the loss of a lover and a close friend.
But there's also betrayal in there.

The main reason I can see for them keeping an eye on him, is because of his bloodline.
Antonio, Luna & Gracie are the children of one serpent & we know how capable they are.
He's the child of two. MC has undiluted serpent genes.
It's in their best interestes to monitor his development, he could become an insanely good asset.
Let's not forget, as much as Cordia is soft & Mumsy & nice, she's still the Blizzard Queen!
Looking out for DeLuca interests is a pretty high priority.

 

[EJW]

The most obvious answer to the fallout of the serpents, is that MC's Father was originally with Cordia.
He has his face burned out of the picture that she has.
So the presumption is that he left Cordia, for MC's Mother & that was the end of the original serpents.

I honestly don't know why Cordia would feel guilt. I can certainly see remorse, for the loss of a lover and a close friend.
But there's also betrayal in there.

The main reason I can see for them keeping an eye on him, is because of his bloodline.
He's the child of two Serpents.
Antonio, Luna & Gracie are the children of one & we know how capable they are.
MC has undiluted serpent genes.

Not sure about bloodline but I like the theory.
Hopes is the only one who can answer these and I can't wait to get the answers to them. Love the story!

 

[whichone]

Not sure about bloodline but I like the theory.
Hopes is the only one who can answer these and I can't wait to get the answers to them. Love the story!

They're watching him as a kid when they notice that he's special, got skills of manipulation.
It's why Wilfred allows it to play out, watching for what this kid can do.
I don't think they'd have bothered watching him, if they weren't already expecting something of that sort.
So I'm thinking the only reason for expecting such a thing, is because of the bloodline.
IDK, as you say, we'll see! lol

 

[JJJ84]

I honestly don't know why Cordia would feel guilt. I can certainly see remorse, for the loss of a lover and a close friend.
But there's also betrayal in there.

Cordia's guilt is mentioned few times throughout the game; once by Wilfred in the "Portend" event, second time while not explicitly the word "guilt" is used, it's very much implied in that with words such as "fault" or "responsibility" in Cordia's Office recording; Recording 7 iirc).

I can think of couple of people Cordia would feel guilt for:

1) Rina & her son, the MC
Rina was the first real friend Cordia made, and things happened which drove them apart and a war was waged on between them where they ended up being enemies (Giocabbe's whole "Sorry I couldn't help when the other Serpents betrayed you" line he says to Cordia in their meet to plead mercy for Straffan).
This in my eyes drove Rina to the point where she seemed to be willing to take her own life, as well as her own son.

Not to mention due to the whole war between Cordia and Rina, MC didn't get a proper childhood (I'd imagine Kaskars did their best, but still..... I think child MC would have had it a bit rough until he got to meet with Jalen).

2) Luna & Lucan
Due to the events in "My name is Luna", Luna went through a traumatic experience that scarred her for life, and Lucan lost his life.
Hearing from Luna that she was forced to shoot Lucan I'd imagine bears a tremendous weight on Cordia with extreme guilt (probably as to how she feels, as the Donna failed to protect her own family).

 

[whichone]

Cordia's guilt is mentioned few times throughout the game; once by Wilfred in the "Portend" event, second time while not explicitly the word "guilt" is used, it's very much implied in that with words such as "fault" or "responsibility" in Cordia's Office recording; Recording 7 iirc).

I can think of couple of people Cordia would feel guilt for:

1) Rina & her son, the MC
Rina was the first real friend Cordia made, and things happened which drove them apart and a war was waged on between them where they ended up being enemies (Giocabbe's whole "Sorry I couldn't help when the other Serpents betrayed you" line he says to Cordia in their meet to plead mercy for Straffan).
This in my eyes drove Rina to the point where she seemed to be willing to take her own life, as well as her own son.

Not to mention due to the whole war between Cordia and Rina, MC didn't get a proper childhood (I'd imagine Kaskars did their best, but still..... I think child MC would have had it a bit rough until he got to meet with Jalen).

2) Luna & Lucan
Due to the events in "My name is Luna", Luna went through a traumatic experience that scarred her for life, and Lucan lost his life.
Hearing from Luna that she was forced to shoot Lucan I'd imagine bears a tremendous weight on Cordia with extreme guilt (probably as to how she, as the Donna failed to protect her own family).

I get it, but I don't see that as guilt, though. It's more like sadness.
In order to be guilt, she needs to feel accountable or responsible for what happened. Not just sympathetic towards it.
I don't see what she has to feel responsible for, as yet.
If Rina & MC's Father betrayed her, which his burned out face in the photo suggests, then they cheated her.
They betrayed her relationship & they, seemingly, tried to betray her by usurping her - as per what Giocabbe says.

She might feel sadness and loss, for a friend and a lover becoming enemies, but guilt suggests she did something wrong to cause it.
But, I guess guilt doesn't always stand up to logic in RL, it's quite often irrational.
Feeling guilty is certainly different to being guilty.

 

[whichone]

I mean, yes, the pure definition of guilt is dependent on that the person feeling the guilt had done something wrong as you said.

But having said that, I think what Cordia perhaps is feeling guilt for may be the way she handled things.
Even with Rina and the other Serpents betrayed her (instigating the wrongful act in the beginning), perhaps in her own way she is regretting how she reacted to the whole situation that resulted in the war (you know, the whole 'action and reaction') and losing her friend.

And besides, regardless of who did the first wrongful act, it's the war between Rina & Cordia (and their two sides), which screwed over MC's childhood (i.e. him just being the innocent kid who got caught in the war between the adults).
Cordia being Cordia, I think she's got a lot of empathy within her to know that her and Rina's war was responsible for what happened to MC and not deciding to just point finger at Rina being the one who's responsible (i.e. fault lies within both parties, even though Rina was the one who wronged Cordia first).

With Luna & Lucan, it's sort of same reasoning.
Yes, M6 are the ones who attacked.
But in Cordia's mind, I'd imagine she'd be like "Why didn't I put more defenses with our mansion" or "Why couldn't I protect my daughter and husband."
Thoughts like that would naturally grow into guilt.

I don't think she's responsible for the war.
She didn't start it and she couldn't possibly have not defended against it.
Once she entered it, which she had no choice about, she had no choice but to try to win it.

She certainly might feel guilt, but like I say, that's very different from being guilty.
Guilt as an emotion requires no basis in fact, only feeling.

As you say, if she (maybe justifiably) feels responsible for her part in the breakdown of their relationship, that can certainly come out as a reason for feeling guilty.

Still, I honestly don't think someone like the Blizzard Queen would have ever got very far, if guilt bothered her.

 

[JJJ84]

Still, though. I honestly don't think someone like the Blizzard Queen would have ever got very far, if guilt bothered her.

I think Cordia has a very good poker face that she doesn't let others see (how she truly feels) other than the very select few that she genuinely trusts.
So even when she feels weighed down by emotion of guilt, she's just very good at hiding it from others (so noone was able to exploit it).
That could very well be how she thrived as the Blizzard Queen.
What she's known according to her reputation and poker face being quite different from how she is to people she trusts the most.

Only person who knows of her such emotion is Wilfred who she confides in, since he's her mentor, and now, the MC as well (given Wilfred mentions Cordia's guilt in "Portend" event and unofficially asks MC to solve Cordia's issue, as well as issues of other DeLuca girls).

 

[whichone]

I think Cordia has a very good poker face that she doesn't let others see (how she truly feels) other than the very select few that she genuinely trusts.
So even when she feels weighed down by emotion of guilt, she's just very good at hiding it from others (so noone was able to exploit it).
That could very well be how she thrived as the Blizzard Queen.
What she's known according to her reputation and poker face being quite different from how she is to people she trusts the most.

Only person who knows of her such emotion is Wilfred who she confides in, since he's her mentor, and now, the MC as well (given Wilfred mentions Cordia's guilt in "Portend" event and unofficially asks MC to solve Cordia's issue, as well as issues of other DeLuca girls).

True that.
Aah, it's been too long, with too much entitled nonsense & random Filii, feels as though we've not had a proper good chat about the DeLuca world for ages.