Yup.
The poison gas scene where Rina tries to take her own life and child MC's life.
That's the flashback he experiences when he gets poisoned in his first dinner with the Family after he arrives at the DeLuca mansion (that talk that Antonio & Gracie has with him after he wakes up saying he surprisingly has a built in immunity to the poison and if not he would have died, etc etc. Unfortunately, I don't remember much else from that scene, heh).
Some toxin exist that you can build up a higher tolerance than normal. One of them is Arsenic trioxide, it is well documented and the tolerance level of a "trained" person could be a multiple than the LD50 dose for normal people.
Whoever poisoned the MC in that dinner knew exactly what poison MC got the tolerance for as a child.
Not that it really narrows down the list of suspects all that much, but I'd say that puts it as someone who is very much "in-the-know" of DeLucas' Family business (seen most people's fingers pointing at Wilfred, but I'm not so sure tbh )
Don't think so.
If the person knew of MC poison tolerance and he want him dead, then he would use a much higher dose or another toxin that works for all the same.
If he wants to just scare them, then he would need the exact tolerance the MC have for this toxin. If he miscalculate and the dose is to high, then the MC could die. And if he miscalculate and the dose is to low, then the MC might not even notic it.
Therefore, I go with that the one who poisend the MC in the dinner scene wanted him dead, but didn't know that and used the "normal" deadly dose for him.
And with the same argumentation I don't think Rina wanted her son dead. She poisend him, but I do believe that the dose was to low to be really dangerous for him.
Perhaps it could be the only way she saw that her child could have a "safe" future. Risk her own life, paint a horrible picture of her as a mother, thus that the child would taken away from her and so end up in a safer place. Perhaps the contract with the Delucas and her son was on her request, so she could be sure that he is "safe".
(a) The dev didn't put it on here, and more importantly
(b) it's an adult game site, not a porn game site. That means it features stuff unsuitable for minors but not everything is porn. As said repeatedly the "no sex" tag does exist for a reason.
Some toxin exist that you can build up a higher tolerance than normal. One of them is Arsenic trioxide, it is well documented and the tolerance level of a "trained" person could be a multiple than the LD50 dose for normal people.
Don't think so.
If the person knew of MC poison tolerance and he want him dead, then he would use a much higher dose or another toxin that works for all the same.
If he wants to just scare them, then he would need the exact tolernace the MC have for this toxin. If he miscalculate and the dose is to high, then the MC could die. And if he miscalculate and the dose is to low, then the MC might not even notic it.
Therefore, I go with that the one who poisend the MC in the dinner scene wanted him dead, but didn't know that and used the "normal" deadly dose for him.
And with the same argumentation I don't think Rina wanted her son dead. She poisend him, but I do believe that the dose was to low to be really dangerous for him.
Perhaps it could be the only way she saw that her child could have a "safe" future. Risk her own life, paint a horrible picture of her as a mother, thus that the child would taken away from her and so end up in a safer place. Perhaps the contract with the Delucas and her son was on her request, so she could be sure that he is "safe".
The thing is, with MC's poisoning, I'm not entirely convinced it may have been with the intent to actually kill him.
Could possibly a ploy by either Wilfred or Gildart as a weird test as to part of "figuring out" the MC to see how he fares in the certain level of poison.
With Wilfred's (and Gildart, since he's Wilfred's currently favored student, given Cordia is Donna) resources, I'm guessing it wouldn't be too hard to analyze and find out the exact type of poison and the extent of it to find out how much of it would be good to test the MC.
Of course, something like this Cordia would never condone, but the game does show Wilfred doing several things behind Cordia's back (some things she turns blind eye to them, some things she calls him out, but I'm also assuming there are some things which Wilfred does that Cordia doesn't notice at all).
As for Rina and her intentions?
While I guess on one hand it could be she had good intentions in mind, on the other hand, MC states to Luna and Gracie (in the Beach Prison event) that she started becoming less motherly when his father left them.
I dunno, I think if they wanted the MC to have a "safe" future, there could have been alternative ways to do that even when his father was around, and I do find the whole poisoning to make herself seem unfit kind jumping through the unnecessary hoops (when in fact, if they wanted to portray themselves as unfit parents, they could have just abandoned the child MC at an orphanage without the whole poison endeavor).
Perhaps it's a bit of cynic in me, but I'm getting a bit of feeling that Rina just didn't take MC's father leaving too well, and that emotional stress (and possibly even breakdown) seeped out to how she treated the MC.
And I do admit I might even actually prefer it that way.
For conflict issues that MC has encountered within the game that he had (or has) to solve, a lot of them stemmed from either "misunderstandings" or "either parties not getting the full picture." such as Gracie & Isabel's reconciliation, and likely Luna & Cordia's future reconciliation as well.
For Rina & MC, I guess I'm keen to see something........ different.
Rather than Rina saying to MC "I did all these actions for your own good." and MC coming to terms with it with the whole justification, I do think it might be a more intriguing narrative if she has a real heart to heart talk with her son realizing how she didn't handle the situation well (with her mistreatment of him due to stress/breakdown).
Hence no misunderstanding or the not knowing the full picture twists and turns or secrets. Simply being the case of bad parenting.
Would be a monkey wrench thrown with players expecting characters actually related to MC being either good (or decent), and would also show that not every issue can be fixed with same fix.
Sometimes, it's good to have characters admit to others that they themselves have a problem and face it head on.
Just my two cents on it, though I guess I could be totally wrong (and yes, I have been wrong before in my theories also, heh).
Could possibly a ploy by either Wilfred or Gildart as a weird test as to part of "figuring out" the MC to see how he fares in the certain level of poison.
With Wilfred's (and Gildart, since he's Wilfred's currently favored student, given Cordia is Donna) resources, I'm guessing it wouldn't be too hard to analyze and find out the exact type of poison and the extent of it to find out how much of it would be good to test the MC.
That woud be not needed if Wilfred (or Gildart as his right hand) would have that information. Also if the MC is so important it is a risky move. If you overstimate the toxin tolerance, then he may be dead nethertheless. If you see that you use too much poison and an antidote or therapy exist for that toxin, then it can be suspicious if you use the exactly right antidote or therapy for that toxin.
Even more with Gracie who would possible see through it faster than you can explain it to her.
As for Rina and her intentions?
While I guess on one hand it could be she had good intentions in mind, on the other hand, MC states to Luna and Gracie (in the Beach Prison event) that she started becoming less motherly when his father left them.
I dunno, I think if they wanted the MC to have a "safe" future, there could have been alternative ways to do that even when his father was around, and I do find the whole poisoning to make herself seem unfit kind jumping through the unnecessary hoops (when in fact, if they wanted to portray themselves as unfit parents, they could have just abandoned the child MC at an orphanage without the whole poison endeavor).
Perhaps it's the bit of cynic in me, but I'm getting a bit of feeling that Rina just didn't take MC's father leaving too well, and that emotional stress (and possibly even breakdown) seeped out to how she treated the MC.
And I do admit I might even actually prefer it that way.
For conflict issues that MC has encountered within the game that he had (or has) to solve, a lot of them stemmed from either "misunderstandings" or "either parties not getting the full picture." such as Gracie & Isabel's reconciliation, and likely Luna & Cordia's future reconciliation as well.
For Rina & MC, I guess I'm keen to see something........ different.
Rather than Rina saying to MC "I did all these actions for your own good." and MC coming to terms with it with the whole justification, I do think it might be a more intriguing narrative if she has a real heart to heart talk with her son realizing how she didn't handle the situation well (with her mistreatment of him due to stress/breakdown).
Hence no misunderstanding or the not knowing the full picture twists and turns. Simply being the case of bad parenting.
Would be a monkey wrench thrown with players expecting characters actually related to MC being either good (or decent), and would also show that not every issue can be fixed with same fix.
Sometimes, it's good to have characters admit to others that they themselves have a problem and face it head on.
Couldn't it be both?
Rina a good mother, I doubt. Unkown Serpent a good father, I doubt too. Willing to be good parents? Perhaps. Wanting to do the right thing and doing the right thing are two different things.
Also going on the idea that MC mother could protect the MC from harm any other way.
Assuming MC is a unique, important and a strong chess piece on the board. If she would put him up for adoption, how could she be sure that this will end well. Even if the Delucas would have adopted him, how could she and them protect him from possible harm?
Even as one of the strongest family she couldn't protect her child and her husband from the Mysterious Six. So it is established that even one of the strongest family is not omnipotent.
If she new that the Mysterious Six are a thread and her former lover and father of her child is around them, it would be a very good reason to use some stronger measurement that the others do not see her child as a thread.
Perhaps that is why the MC always undersell himself and let all other think he is weaker than he actually is. That might be the lessons he was given from his mother to assure that he won't look like the next Wilfred or Cordia skill wise. That would also fall in line why the Delucas couldn't just adopt him themself. Even if they would have done that and put the him in custody of some of the Gents or a Serpent, it might not be enough and he still would end up with the "enemy".
So, trying to let him have a normal life, where he just was a "weak" kid, always hiding his potential, keep herself from him and then, after he reach adulthood and it would be very difficult to brainwash him, then take him into the family. Before that only look over him from a distance, the same as it was done in the Ombra mission, perhaps even other mission too and try to have a low profile.
And in addition to that in the OP you have links to the devs site. If you don't see new post there, even if they would be behind paywall, then we don't know more than that.
That woud be not needed if Wilfred (or Gildart as his right hand) would have that information. Also if the MC is so important it is a risky move. If you overstimate the toxin tolerance, then he may be dead nethertheless. If you see that you use too much poison and an antidote or therapy exist for that toxin, then it can be suspicious if you use the exactly right antidote or therapy for that toxin.
Even more with Gracie who would possible see through it faster than you can explain it to her.
He was dosed in the poison gas as a child, but there is no way of knowing how much of a tolerance he would have as an adult.
Only way to be sure would be to test it out.
Now, yes. MC is very much important to DeLucas, but we've also gotta remember the dialogue Cordia & Wilfred has with Antonio had just before MC went on his Ombra mission).
Following is not the exact line word by word, but what I remember roughly as to being conversed by the three characters (which can be viewed in MC's hidden recording of Cordia's office):
Antonio: Why are we sending him on a mission? I thought the point of it was to keep him safe?
Wilfred: He needs to learn to survive in our world.
Cordia: If he dies while on mission, that's the extent of his abilities.
Not sure I have the characters voicing Wilfred & Cordia's lines right (could be, that Cordia's line above being said by Wilfred & vice versa lol), but I'm 100% sure of Antonio questioning taking MC on Ombra mission.
So that scene I think clearly show that while MC's safety is clearly one of DeLucas' priorities, the other priority also is how "useful" MC will be to the Family (in whatever objective they have in regarding the contract).
I see this as possible extension of that.
Wilfred, being thought of as like a devil for particular instances (like when he trained Gildart), could have wanted to push to see how MC would fare with poison now as an adult.
Of course, Cordia would never condone such an act in her house, but it's been well known that Wilfred does things behind Cordia's back so it wouldn't be out of blue for Wilfred (and by extention Gildart) to poison MC to see how he fares.
If he survives, it means in Wilfred's eyes MC was tough enough and his tolerance level to the toxin is enough to survive the poison (which I'd imagine no doubt he'd add to MC's confidential profile), but if he doesn't, he can just chalk it up to MC being not strong enough for whatever is needed for the Family.
I mean, in the beginning of the game, Wilfred had only just started to personally know the MC (despite observing him over the years), so with him being much more practical than sentimental (though sometimes cracks happen with Luna & Gracie like in that Portend event), so I'd imagine there's not really that much of an affection for him (just "how useful would this kid be to the Family?).
As for Gracie, well Gracie is a very smart girl (no doubt smartest after Wilfred), but I'd imagine there are even certain aspects of things that Wilfred does with the Family that even she's not aware of.
Couldn't it be both?
Rina a good mother, I doubt. Unkown Serpent a good father, I doubt too. Willing to be good parents? Perhaps. Wanting to do the right thing and doing the right thing are two different things.
Also going on the idea that MC mother could protect the MC from harm any other way.
Assuming MC is a unique, important and a strong chess piece on the board. If she would put him up for adoption, how could she be sure that this will end well. Even if the Delucas would have adopted him, how could she and them protect him from possible harm?
Even as one of the strongest family she couldn't protect her child and her husband from the Mysterious Six. So it is established that even one of the strongest family is not omnipotent.
If she new that the Mysterious Six are a thread and her former lover and father of her child is around them, it would be a very good reason to use some stronger measurement that the others do not see her child as a thread.
This would be highly dependent on where particular events are placed on the whole timeline, such as;
1) When Mysterious 6 was established, before or after MC's father disappeared.
2) Rina knew about her husband being part of Mysterious 6 (if we assume M6 was established before MC's father's disappearance)
If M6 was established before, and story happens that Rina was aware of it beforehand (while being together with her husband), then yes I could see it happen like your theory.
However, if it happened after, and the answer is "No" regarding condition 2 above (i.e. M6 happened while Rina and MC's father were together but Rina was unaware of her husband's dealings in the shadow), then I'd say it's unlikely that theory will work.
Following is just my personal opinion, but especially considering lion's share of the main story arcs regarding MC is involved in plot twists/secrets/conspiracy/hidden agendas/mystery in the shadows, I think it might actually be good for at least one (of many) story arc regarding MC be something more of simpler, straight-forward in terms of narrative without the whole "it's another web of mystery" aspect to it (rather than having every single arc of MC be that way, I do think it would be a refreshing change to have at least one of his arcs be using the the K.I.S.S. approach).
But that's just me.
Perhaps that is why the MC always undersell himself and let all other think he is weaker than he actually is. That might be the lessons he was given from his mother to assure that he won't look like the next Wilfred or Cordia skill wise. That would also fall in line why the Delucas couldn't just adopt him themself. Even if they would have done that and put the him in custody of some of the Gents or a Serpent, it might not be enough and he still would end up with the "enemy".
So, trying to let him have a normal life, where he just was a "weak" kid, always hiding his potential, keep herself from him and then, after he reach adulthood and it would be very difficult to brainwash him, then take him into the family. Before that only look over him from a distance, the same as it was done in the Ombra mission, perhaps even other mission too and try to have a low profile.
The thing is though, Wilfred & Gildart's assessment of both MC's parents were just "average" according to Gildart in Ombra mission (neither highly intelligent, nor unintelligent people).
Of course, Wilfred's assessment in his profiling I wouldn't say is flawless (I mean, Joey is the living example of where Wilfred's assessment is incorrect), but I kinda doubt it's likely he'd be mistaken more than once.
Also, I'm not really a fan of "MC learnt how he acts due to how his parents taught him" aspect.
For me, I'm more inclined to believe that MC was just thrust into a situation that he was not prepared for (being at a possible orphanage due to actions Rina took with the poison gas, and DeLucas not deciding to take him until he comes of age).
He struggled at first with the bullying, but with a bit of time, he self-taught himself that he needs to be "under-estimated" and manipulate his enemies in order to get the upper hand (like that bully scene which Wilfred & Gildart watches).
Having him act that way because he was taught by his parents I feel would just diminish MC's own intelligence.
Him self-learning that would show how he thrived when he was thrown into the unfamiliar yet hostile (not life and death, cause it's kids and all, but still) environment where he has a defense mechanism ("being underestimated") within himself, that he uses to his advantage.
I can see that, to a degree. People often lose their shit after a bad break-up.
Fathers are often portrayed as bitter, resentful men who take it out on their children, after their wife leaves.
No reason a woman couldn't do the same. I'm all for equality.
But I think it's a bit much that she'd want to kill her young child, particularly in such dramatic manner, just because his Father left her. I reckon it would take quite a bit more, to push her to that point. Unless she's a total headcase.
Perhaps mental health issues were conducive to her becoming such a successful OG serpent, but they probably don't help with being a Mum.
Father leaving her being a catalyst, when she's mentally unstable already, could certainly lead to her mental state degrading pretty quickly.
Paranoia is probably likely, as a starter.
From there I could see her reaching a state where she considered poisoning herself & her child as the only option.
That would also account for the slightly twisted thinking of poisoning your child to force them to build up an immunity, if that's what it was.
Depression and breakdown just messes up people in unexpected ways, and Rina's scene sort of reminded me of that news (unfortunately) when I saw it.
So Rina totally losing her shit after MC's father leaves, treating MC badly throughout his childhood and deciding to just give up and end it all with the poison gas doesn't feel too out of reach for me (given something not too different happened in real life).
As for Gracie, well Gracie is a very smart girl (no doubt smartest after Wilfred), but I'd imagine there are even certain aspects of things that Wilfred does with the Family that even she's not aware of.
I don't see that in the aspect of somethings goes wrong with the poison test that in theory could be done by Wilfred.
Poising the MC and watch what happens, yes, that I agree with you wouldn't get the doubt of Gracie.
But poising the MC, watch it, seen it is a deadly dose even for him and then aget him the right therapy or antidote, I would bet something on it, that Gracie would be dubious about it. Why does Wilfred* exactly know how to treat him for that poison?
*or any other one
For the the Mysterious 6, Rina and MCs father:
MCs father doesn't need to be part of the Mysterious 6. The Mysterious 6 are a thread with or without him. Only, as you've pointed out, they must already exist at the time MCs father leave Rina and him and Rina then poisoned the MC - reason(s) unkown.
It is a theory, as much as yours. But I argument with the same arguments you use for the other case.
Also child and adults too, learn with copying something. So if Rina or MCs father often show him that behaviour, then he would normaly catch that up and adopt it. Usually without futher ado - as I have copy some of things from my parents that annoy me and add my own annoying touch on top of it.
Until MC find a behaviour that works better for him...
So Rina totally losing her shit after MC's father leaves, treating MC badly throughout his childhood and deciding to just give up and end it all with the poison gas doesn't feel too out of reach for me (given something not too different happened in real life).
For the RL woman, as you said, she did it in a fit of rage, when she snapped, post major argument & relationship ending. It was a direct reaction to the events & all the emotion & trauma was live & raw.
For Rina, she's sat on it for however long, since they split up. IDK how long after MCs birth they broke up, but I don't think it's the same day as the poisoning (or particularly close to), as MC would've presumably remembered something so significant as his parents breaking up, when telling Luna the story.
She could well have stewed on it and made herself become irrationally angry, but she doesn't seem to have an obvious catalyst for doing something so extreme as trying to kill her child. T
I can certainly see her suffering from depression and it making her be horrible to him, but attempting to kill him still feels too extreme, to me.
Absolutely could be that she just had a psychotic break, just feels like the provocation required to reach such an extreme response is currently missing.
But who's to know what goes on inside the mind of madness.
I think, after this discussion, I'm more intrigued by this than I was when playing! Have to hope that Hopes can fill in the blanks...
(b) it's an adult game site, not a porn game site. That means it features stuff unsuitable for minors but not everything is porn. As said repeatedly the "no sex" tag does exist for a reason.
The thing is, with MC's poisoning, I'm not entirely convinced it may have been with the intent to actually kill him.
Could possibly a ploy by either Wilfred or Gildart as a weird test as to part of "figuring out" the MC to see how he fares in the certain level of poison.
With Wilfred's (and Gildart, since he's Wilfred's currently favored student, given Cordia is Donna) resources, I'm guessing it wouldn't be too hard to analyze and find out the exact type of poison and the extent of it to find out how much of it would be good to test the MC.
Of course, something like this Cordia would never condone, but the game does show Wilfred doing several things behind Cordia's back (some things she turns blind eye to them, some things she calls him out, but I'm also assuming there are some things which Wilfred does that Cordia doesn't notice at all).
As for Rina and her intentions?
While I guess on one hand it could be she had good intentions in mind, on the other hand, MC states to Luna and Gracie (in the Beach Prison event) that she started becoming less motherly when his father left them.
I dunno, I think if they wanted the MC to have a "safe" future, there could have been alternative ways to do that even when his father was around, and I do find the whole poisoning to make herself seem unfit kind jumping through the unnecessary hoops (when in fact, if they wanted to portray themselves as unfit parents, they could have just abandoned the child MC at an orphanage without the whole poison endeavor).
Perhaps it's a bit of cynic in me, but I'm getting a bit of feeling that Rina just didn't take MC's father leaving too well, and that emotional stress (and possibly even breakdown) seeped out to how she treated the MC.
And I do admit I might even actually prefer it that way.
For conflict issues that MC has encountered within the game that he had (or has) to solve, a lot of them stemmed from either "misunderstandings" or "either parties not getting the full picture." such as Gracie & Isabel's reconciliation, and likely Luna & Cordia's future reconciliation as well.
For Rina & MC, I guess I'm keen to see something........ different.
Rather than Rina saying to MC "I did all these actions for your own good." and MC coming to terms with it with the whole justification, I do think it might be a more intriguing narrative if she has a real heart to heart talk with her son realizing how she didn't handle the situation well (with her mistreatment of him due to stress/breakdown).
Hence no misunderstanding or the not knowing the full picture twists and turns or secrets. Simply being the case of bad parenting.
Would be a monkey wrench thrown with players expecting characters actually related to MC being either good (or decent), and would also show that not every issue can be fixed with same fix.
Sometimes, it's good to have characters admit to others that they themselves have a problem and face it head on.
Just my two cents on it, though I guess I could be totally wrong (and yes, I have been wrong before in my theories also, heh).
But he's also highly crafty...
I'm sure he had something going on that he hadn't declared to the Family. Can't remember what the venture was, now. But have a feeling he was doing stuff outside of Cordia's knowledge.
I'm not sure what they'd be hoping to achieve, with such a test.
If they know about the poison, in that level of detail, surely they'd also know he's immune?
What would they be testing him for? Can't think of anything that this test could prove, other than what they must already know, that he's immune.
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