Ren'Py Abandoned The DeLuca Family [Season 1] [HopesGaming]

[Hahn1900]

Up to the 0.06.x updates the release time was OK. Not fast, but we had a average of 3-4 updates per year. After that we only have 1 or 2 updates per year and more like 1 updates per year. I don't blame hope for it, he always was upfront on this with us.

But for a game to have success it would need a faster and more constant update cycle. Also for that few updates per year, they are to small. Again nothing against hope, only stating my opinion why the game isn't such a success instead of all the goods it has.

So, going for a major release, I have this numbers:

Game Version​	Date​	Time between updates [d]​	Time between updates [M]​	Average time between updates [M]​
0.02​	09.09.18​	​	​	​
0.03​	15.11.18​	67​	2.23​	2.23​
0.04​	18.03.19​	123​	4.10​	3.17​
0.05​	28.09.19​	194​	6.47​	4.35​
0.06.1​	22.03.20​	176​	5.87​	4.05​
0.06.5​	19.06.20​	89​	2.97​	2.60​
0.06.6​	24.07.20​	35​	1.17​	1.70​
0.07.2​	08.04.21​	258​	8.60​	5.42​
0.08.0.3​	06.07.22​	454​	15.13​	8.68​

Well considering the overall slow development and that there was no really new content update in the las 1 and a half year... and the lack of lewd-content (which doesnt bother me at all, but many others do complain about it cause they think this is a porn-page) having more than 500 patrons is still impressive...

But yeah i sure hope that updates will come faster in the future, and that the next update will have a good amount of content. With more frequent updatesHopes could have made a living out of this game for sure, not like this though. And i think Hopes should work on his "report" duties too.. to go radio-silence for several weeks is not a good thing.

 

[c3p0]

You should prob use the release dates for 0.06, 0.06.5, 0.07 & 0.08.
Using the release date of bug fixes, released after the main content, is distorting (lengthening) the figures slightly.
Not going to reduce it dramatically, but would be a more accurate reflection of the time between content releases.

Would do that, although for the 0.07 and 0.08 i don't have them, probably for the 0.06. Not 100% sure, but I used the date and version numbers from Patreon post. Some of them (eg. 0.08.0.x) surely were updated with the bugfix release. Don't know how Patreon post and their date works, so it could be the date of the 0.08 release or the date of the 0.08.0.3 release.

As you also stated, this is a general, overall statement, to show the trend. If I'm a few days/week wrong with some release date, than it is imperfect, but the the general trend won't be that different.

 

[whichone]

But yeah i sure hope that updates will come faster in the future, and that the next update will have a good amount of content. With more frequent updatesHopes could have made a living out of this game for sure, not like this though. And i think Hopes should work on his "report" duties too.. to go radio-silence for several weeks is not a good thing.

Hopes did say that he intended to try and ramp up the release schedule, I believe that's still his intention.
What you say here is perfectly valid, if Hopes was running this as a business. But, don't forget, he's doing this as a hobby, not as a commercial vehicle for revenue generation.
If he wants to turn it into a full time job (which, AFAIK, he does not), then your suggestion for better comms would be very useful in attaining & retaining support.

 

[TimHawk]

Up to the 0.06.x updates the release time was OK. Not fast, but we had a average of 3-4 updates per year. After that we only have 1 or 2 updates per year and more like 1 updates per year. I don't blame hope for it, he always was upfront on this with us.

But for a game to have success it would need a faster and more constant update cycle. Also for that few updates per year, they are to small. Again nothing against hope, only stating my opinion why the game isn't such a success instead of all the goods it has.

So, going for a major release, I have this numbers:

Game Version​	Date​	Time between updates [d]​	Time between updates [M]​	Average time between updates [M]​
0.02​	09.09.18​	​	​	​
0.03​	15.11.18​	67​	2.23​	2.23​
0.04​	18.03.19​	123​	4.10​	3.17​
0.05​	28.09.19​	194​	6.47​	4.35​
0.06.1​	22.03.20​	176​	5.87​	4.05​
0.06.5​	19.06.20​	89​	2.97​	2.60​
0.06.6​	24.07.20​	35​	1.17​	1.70​
0.07.2​	08.04.21​	258​	8.60​	5.42​
0.08.0.3​	06.07.22​	454​	15.13​	8.68​

Oh I understand, yea development time seems to be the number one issue in our little world and I totally get now why you sounded disheartend and without much hope. You really like a game and then the updates stretch longer and longer and at some point the solutions to all the questions in ones head seem so far out of reach that all hype and anticipation slowly sinks towards zero.

It seems especially hard for developers who do everything as a 1 man team. I guess it really takes a toll to work towards the completion of 1 update and then instantly do an 180 and start with the development of the next update from scratch again.

Is the development of this game Hope's fulltime occupation or a side project that he completes as free time allows ?

And do you follow other games too ?

 

[whichone]

Would do that, although for the 0.07 and 0.08 i don't have them, probably for the 0.06. Not 100% sure, but I used the date and version numbers from Patreon post. Some of them (eg. 0.08.0.x) surely were updated with the bugfix release. Don't know how Patreon post and their date works, so it could be the date of the 0.08 release or the date of the 0.08.0.3 release.

As you also stated, thiis is a general, overall statement, to show the trend. If I'm a few days/week wrong with some release date, than it is imperfect, but the the general trend won't be that different.

Figured you'd just used what was available, shame the dates for main releases are not available.
Don't forget, if it takes 10 months for 0.06, then a further 2.5 months for 0.06.1, we go from under a year to over a year.
Do that 2 or 3 times and we're adding 7.5 months.
It might not be a big difference in elapsed time, but it is a big difference in perception of speed.

Is the development of this game Hope's fulltime occupation or a side project that he completes as free time allows ?

It's just a hobby. He's not trying to earn money from this, per se.
Obviously financial support is welcome, but it's not his objective.

 

[c3p0]

Is the development of this game Hope's fulltime occupation or a side project that he completes as free time allows ?

It his hobby at the current time. He try to change that and is preparing a Steam release for the game, that is my understanding.

And do you follow other games too ?

Yes, with the mix of some "big time" devs as well as other smaller "underated" devs.

Being alone or have a team affect the speed of development, but is not the one and only factor. Some single dev have done biweekly update with a adequate size, although very few can hold that speed. Other single dev do 3 to 4 updates a year with also adequate size (in this case means >> 1 h gameplay for every path). And some of the devs tend to do the absolute minimum so they can max. their profit.

For hope, I think he does his best. It is a pitty that we don't have more Delucas with that, than the few updates we get.

 

[whichone]

Some single dev have done biweekly update with a adequate size, although very few can hold that speed.

I mentioned Faerin, last time this topic came up, as one of the only devs I knew of that maintained a consisten (& quick!) release schedule, with monthly releases all the way through his last game.
I forgot another dev, who I know you enjoyed one of his games - Talothral, the dev for Sorcerer. I think his update schedule was pretty frequent for that, too. It certainly is for Terminus Reach 2, his current game.

 

[c3p0]

I forgot another dev, who I know you enjoyed one of his games - Talothral, the dev for Sorcerer. I think his update schedule was pretty frequent for that, too. It certainly is for Terminus Reach 2, his current game.

Talothral is perhaps the only dev, that I know that can keep up his speed. Another one dev I know that have done weekly updates was BD (dev of WVM), yet he doesn't do that anymore.

Also it the size of update is at least as important as the frequent of updates is..

 

[Hahn1900]

Hopes did say that he intended to try and ramp up the release schedule, I believe that's still his intention.
What you say here is perfectly valid, if Hopes was running this as a business. But, don't forget, he's doing this as a hobby, not as a commercial vehicle for revenue generation.
If he wants to turn it into a full time job (which, AFAIK, he does not), then your suggestion for better comms would be very useful in attaining & retaining support.

Well, sure... but hobby or not... its not that hard to write regular DEV-reports, even if its only a hobby. In my opinion and experience, its already a huge difference for supporters if a DEV makes very regular DEV reports or not. If you ask me, i think he could have about 100 patrons more if he would make DEV-reports every two weeks for example... even if they wouldnt have that much news in it. But being active on the patreon page is really important i would say... and not that hard to keep doing.

But well, iam not complaining... just saying that Hopes could do better with just tiny bit improvement on that front.

Regarding the development time for the updates, that is a whole other thing of course... this is real hard work. Posting dev-reports every two weeks instead one in two months is not that hard i think but still pays off more than some might think.

 

[TimHawk]

It his hobby at the current time. He try to change that and is preparing a Steam release for the game, that is my understanding.

Yes, with the mix of some "big time" devs as well as other smaller "underated" devs.

Being alone or have a team affect the speed of development, but is not the one and only factor. Some single dev have done biweekly update with a adequate size, although very few can hold that speed. Other single dev do 3 to 4 updates a year with also adequate size (in this case means >> 1 h gameplay for every path). And some of the devs tend to do the absolute minimum so they can max. their profit.

For hope, I think he does his best. It is a pitty that we don't have more Delucas with that, than the few updates we get.

It being a hobby for him sure doesn't help with development times but it also makes it pretty impressive what he has accomplished so far.

Its kinda funny you say that, I posted in the BaD thread today and as you probably know updates take longer and longer, we've kinda gone from 3 months to 6 months to now 8 months but thats not the only thing you have to consider. It always has to be development time vs content delivered and so far, DPC always gave me 10h-15h, sometimes 20h hours of play and then I don't mind. Like with the time I have to actually play games, thats like a week for me and I always thoroughly enjoy going through all the paths and see the differences.

Would I like it to go faster ? Sure, but that's kinda where we're at at the moment and when I play other games I get like 2h per 3 months and those kinda anoy me, because you just got into the game again and then its over and you have the "end of episode" screen. Now having said all that DPC sure has the support and ressources to run multiple rendering pc's and a seperate one just for animations. And a lot if not most of the other developers just dont have the same ressources.

Maybe in the far future some developers get together rent a server farm that runs DAZ and Blender and stuff and the development times actually go down for a change, but thats prob in the far future.

 

[Ayhsel]

Up to the 0.06.x updates the release time was OK. Not fast, but we had a average of 3-4 updates per year. After that we only have 1 or 2 updates per year and more like 1 updates per year. I don't blame hope for it, he always was upfront on this with us.

But for a game to have success it would need a faster and more constant update cycle. Also for that few updates per year, they are to small. Again nothing against hope, only stating my opinion why the game isn't such a success instead of all the goods it has.

So, going for a major release, I have this numbers:

Game Version​	Date​	Time between updates [d]​	Time between updates [M]​	Average time between updates [M]​
0.02​	09.09.18​	​	​	​
0.03​	15.11.18​	67​	2.23​	2.23​
0.04​	18.03.19​	123​	4.10​	3.17​
0.05​	28.09.19​	194​	6.47​	4.35​
0.06.1​	22.03.20​	176​	5.87​	4.05​
0.06.5​	19.06.20​	89​	2.97​	2.60​
0.06.6​	24.07.20​	35​	1.17​	1.70​
0.07.2​	08.04.21​	258​	8.60​	5.42​
0.08.0.3​	06.07.22​	454​	15.13​	8.68​

That is very detailed information...

Only an evil mastermind would keep track of things like that!

 

[whichone]

You, or hope for that matter, will never be able to please everyone.

As the old expression goes: "All of the people, some of the time. Some of the people, all of the time. Not all of the people, all of the time."

 

[Hahn1900]

I have not got the first clue what Hopes' RL schedule is like, so I cannot possibly offer anything on how difficult it is, for him.
Equally, I don't think you can say "it's not hard", without knowing how busy he is outside of the game.
Other things can & do take priority.
Take a busy schedule with work, throw in some personal commitments & you're already talking about not having much free time available.
Probably worn out, too. The last thing on your mind is going online to post an update that says you've not had time to do anything.

Yeah that can be true... its maybe an issue to overcome that hurdle to make a posting which shows that not much work on the game is done... but regardless, even bad news are still news, and many supporters appreciate an honest and active DEV, i sure do... even if he needs a lot of time for development. Overall, i dont think it can make any harm and to be radio silent is much worse. But well, yeah... to say its "easy" to post a weekly DEV-report was maybe a bit too far.

 

[whichone]

Yeah that can be true... its maybe an issue to overcome that hurdle to make a posting which shows that not much work on the game is done... but regardless, even bad news are still news, and many supporters appreciate an honest and active DEV, i sure do... even if he needs a lot of time for development. Overall, i dont think it can make any harm and to be radio silent is much worse. But well, yeah... to say its "easy" to post a weekly DEV-report was maybe a bit too far.

I do not disagree with you. I totally agree (& I'm sure Hopes would) that comms is a crucial part of a business' success.
But, context matters.
As I said, if he was trying to run a business, then absolutely.
If he's just doing it as a hobby & has other things taking up his time, so has nothing to report, then no need to & possibly no desire to.

If you came home after a long day at work, then had to deal with some personal stuff for a couple of hours, would you really be thinking "Oh, I must go online and post an update to tell everyone I've not done anything with my hobby"?
Honestly, it would be the last thing on my mind.

Personally, I'd prefer that the author use that time towards creating something, than use it to tell people they've not had time to create something.

 

[Jimayo]

Well if thats so, why does Gracie whispered that Luna is adopted?

Because that's what siblings do, being an ass to your bro/sis is fucking normal? It doesn't mean anything. It doesn't have to mean anything more than I hate you right now so you don't really belong in this family.

 

[HornyyPussy]

Talothral is perhaps the only dev, that I know that can keep up his speed. Another one dev I know that have done weekly updates was BD (dev of WVM), yet he doesn't do that anymore.

MoonBox (Grandma's House) as well, 2 updates per month

 

[whichone]

MoonBox (Grandma's House) as well, 2 updates per month

With Faerin & Talothral, that's 3, out of hundreds.
I think we can definitely agree that it's an exception.

 

[JJJ84]

Is he calling JJJ84?

As from my memory and understanding Lucian (I think) is the father of Gracie and Luna, as well is Lady Cordia her mother. For Antonio, Cordia is his mother, but he could have another father than Gracie and Luna, although no proof for either are given yet.

Luna & Gracie's father's name is Lucan.
As for the rest, I agree.

Only Antonio, there's question marks as to who his father is (given Angelo's remarks about his father in the Straffan mission).

 

[JJJ84]

Well, Hopes did say goal (but not set ETA) for the upcoming update will be 9th this month (couple of days remaining).
Let's just hope that he can meet this goal and nothing impedes him from it.

 

[TimHawk]

AFAIK, family connection, bloodline, does strengthen a claim to be Capo di tuti i capi, or capomandamento, but the most important thing is support from other family members, or other cosa nostra members, outside the family.
But you need to have a legitimate claim, e.g. you were underboss, or consigliere & the son of the don doesn't want it.
If more than one high ranking party has a legitimate claim, it can be fought out, or negotiated.

That's really interessting, so if Antonio were to die, Luna wouldnt auto inherit the position like let's say in the John Wick universe, if her mother were to pass away ? And from how I read it, it would even be possible for a non Deluca to be the Don/Donna of the Deluca family, even though there still is a legit Deluca of age in the family ?