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c3p0

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Nov 20, 2017
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The one thing about this attack that i dont get is: They don't lack money, so if i was in their shoes, i would have had bullet prove windows installed on the first day i could afford it. Seems like a no-brainer first things first of House defense.
And you always could use a bigger gun...
The Deluca mansion is in the city they control. So, if one with a weapon would fire upon that mansion, then they already have failed. Sure, bullet proof glass can withstand some projectils, but it is a question of the design. Thus, what calibre should the bullet proof glass withstand?
Guns and assault rifles? For that you would need to be in the perimeter of the mansion itself, where your (normal) guard should keep you safe.
But against 0.50" / 12.7 mm or higher, even AP rounds?
 
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anne O'nymous

I'm not grumpy, I'm just coded that way.
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Your reasoning is right except for the fact that they don't have the man power to pull it off, much less pull it off in the back of their returned Donn and daughter both of which want to keep peace with the Delucas.
Do Mina really care ?
Sending someone strike in a main house. Believing that her Family is still among the most powerful while they lost everything above the capo rank, before saying the opposite when facing Nazazi to make him looks crazy. Threatening to kill the heir of the Silverino Family. Believing that the Silverino is still a totally insignificant Family. Trying to lecture Nazazi right after, and because, he killed the guy that pulled a gun on him.
We can't really say that she's smart.

But what we can say is that she maintains a certain animosity against the DeLuca ; probably because they sided with the Carnefice and are still reluctant to use the service of the Ombra Family. I'm sure that there's many people outside of the Ombra Family that she could have sent to kill MC. Yet she choose the heir of the defunct Carnefice Family, and knowingly sent her strike in the main house, when she could have had him killed during one of his many solo mission (the one that happen behind the game because he haven't had only five missions so far). Whatever if Eiza succeeded or not. The heir Carnefice killing, or at least trying to kill, someone in the DeLuca main house... It's like a sister backstabbing her brother, an irony that Mina surely savored, and what a shame for the DeLuca Family.
We also know, again thanks to Siobhan, that Mina is scheming since apparently a long time. Deluded as she is, she probably believe that she now have strong alliances with the other Families, and that they would stand at her side in case of war against the relatively disliked DeLuca.
Of course, Nazazi wouldn't agree to this war, but would he have the choice ? Since striking directly the main house is a war declaration, and everyone believe that the DeLuca are a bunch of crazy guys, Mina can perfectly believe that the war would be unavoidable and that Nazazi wouldn't have other choice than to fight back. In fact, him getting back the control, and even more his apologies, serve a deluded Mina scheme ; "Our Don apologized before the strike, and we clearly said that it was some rogue members that we disapprove who did it. And look at those crazy DeLuca, they still started a war ! It's not our fault, you all agree, right ? So, my friends, you'll stand at our size, right ?"

Once again, I don't say that it's what happened, just that it make sense.



Here is how i see that timeline: Siobhan pushed to start going out while the Donn was still Active / not broken, he gave the order to protect her from the shadows without her knowing, time passes and his mental capacity / state worsens, he gives the order for the wife to Become "leader" (which is why he now say's he is removing that power), and locks himself in that room with the booze. So by the time the wife gives the order to stop following Siobhan they wouldn't have any reason to go for the Donn, "she is strong enough now, and doesn't need help" come into mind.
Except that it's not what we know.

Nazazi is broken since the day he killed Efrem and Zin. Apparently he gave up on his anger, and killed them for a ridiculous reason. Normally he would have only beaten the shit out of them, but he probably thought that killing Efrem was the best way to prove his father that he's really worthy, since just beating him wasn't enough. Then he realized what he did and broke, living constantly with their ghost in his mind.
And it's not something recent. Learning this, Siobhan first thought was that Zin could have been her mother, and that Nazazi killed her to be with Mina. Therefore it happened at least between her birth and the birth of the oldest of her sisters ; let's say around 18 years ago. But anyway one thing is sure, since Zin is Mina's sister, she was dead before Siobhan's third/fourth birthday, else she would have at least some blurry memories about her, and they would have came back once learning about her from Nazario.

Of course, Nazazi past the lead to Mina years later, partly because he wasn't the Head of the Family at this time, but not recently enough for it to fit the narrative:
  • Siobhan "And you guys think that sending me out on missions without protection will make me strong?"
  • Nazazi "Ha! We only wanted to make you think you weren't protected, to toughen you up a bit."
  • Nazazi "There were always people secretly protecting you. In honesty, I didn't think it would work with you. Weren't you supposed to be the smart one of the bunch? Seems you're not that smart after all."
  • Siobhan "Not surprised you don't know. You're always drunk."
  • Nazazi "What the hell is that supposed to mean?"
  • Siobhan "Someone told your 'secret' people to be so secret that they weren't even there. And since it wasn't you, I guess it must have been Mom."
    [the "it's mom fault because..." part]
  • Nazazi "Ridiculous! Just because you didn't see them, doesn't mean they weren't there!"
  • Siobhan "Then where were they when our enemies came for me? Mostly they don't dare approach me because of who I am. But twice now, my life has been in actual danger."
So, firstly it's not Siobhan who asked for those missions. She probably already wanted to leave the Family at this time.
Secondly, it seem clear that the guys where never there, not a single time. Else Siobhan would have said something among the line of "at first yes, but at first only". Hopes wouldn't have made such mistake. That he misuse a word time to time due to translation issues, yes. But that he totally mess up a dialog line, no, I can't believe it, especially not to this point.
Thirdly, Nazazi use "we" when he talk about this. It's not his decision, it's theirs. And personally I see it as "me and your mother". What make me wrong, there's no loyalty issue here, they just were never told to protect her.


[...] Even the mad wife said it would be crazy to go after the delucas head on, [...]
After knowingly sending Eiza kill someone in the main house... I have difficulties believing that she was honest when she said that.
What doesn't mean that it's the Ombra. As I said, it's a plausible possibility accordingly to what we know about the story. But the truth, only Hopes know it.



What i meant was they (whoever they are) could have had someone hidden in a nearby building to do the sniper shot, even then it would have to be someone from really far away or really good, as i bet the guys the Delucas have on watch are pretty good, it wouldn't be strange for one of the best to be on watch,
Look at the windows exploding, and listen the sound FX, it's a good old shooting with assault rifles. And it's not the DeLuca firing back, we see Antonio avoiding a bullet near the end of the shooting. They clearly infiltrated the perimeter, up to the main house, and with assault rifles. And I really can't believe that they could have did that unnoticed unless it's a long time operation.

A sniper would have shoot once, then waited an opportunity to kill his next target. It's what is great with a sniper, one hour later you still can't be sure that he isn't here waiting for you to make the wrong move.
And why hit Gracie when he could have started with Cordia, Antonio or Luna, who are way more dangerous threats, especially after such attack. Personally, I would have targeted Antonio first. Due to where he is placed, Cordia would have become a perfect target when rushing to him. The DeLuca would have lost their Head and Capo Bastone the same day, being left with (seen from the outside) uninvolved Gracie, and crazy Luna to lead them. Gracie would have done a great job, but this only Wilfred and Cordia know it.


The one thing about this attack that i dont get is: They don't lack money, so if i was in their shoes, i would have had bullet prove windows installed on the first day i could afford it. Seems like a no-brainer first things first of House defense.
There's rules, and sneakily striking the main house goes against all those rules.


Who ever they are i think its a big dog, and probably one we don't know about / expect.
Well, it's "them", at least it's what Antonio think. And this absolutely not help us, thanks a lot Hopes ;)




But against 0.50" / 12.7 mm or higher, even AP rounds?
Well, some modern RPG can fire at 400 meters. And since the effective range can goes up to 1Km, while there's no need for a good accuracy when you fire against a house, please make everything strong enough to resist an antitank load.
 

Riversayt

Member
Jan 27, 2023
123
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You need to have enough stealth to spy on them also as you get higher stealth you get different scenes.


I'm pretty certain that the dev won't kill off Gracie and she will recover but if he for whatever reason does actually have her die, I will never play this VN again.
and how does stealth bother me if I play in 2 choices of a novel and free movement? I mean that I don’t do missions to get points and money to buy
 

Riversayt

Member
Jan 27, 2023
123
80
Updated it for 0.09

- Game Version : 0.09.0
- Mod Version : 0.09.0b

Features:

Unlocked Gallery
• Money Cheat
• Skill Cheat
• Love Cheat
• Rename Mc
and where to download this game so that the mod would be arranged in the inside of the game?
 
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TimHawk

Active Member
Dec 12, 2017
954
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Look at the windows exploding, and listen the sound FX, it's a good old shooting with assault rifles. And it's not the DeLuca firing back, we see Antonio avoiding a bullet near the end of the shooting. They clearly infiltrated the perimeter, up to the main house, and with assault rifles. And I really can't believe that they could have did that unnoticed unless it's a long time operation.

A sniper would have shoot once, then waited an opportunity to kill his next target. It's what is great with a sniper, one hour later you still can't be sure that he isn't here waiting for you to make the wrong move.
The first shot is very clearly a sniper shot, you don't use an automatic rifle in single shot mode, then wait for everyone to take cover, switch to full auto and then start shooting again. And if you go by accoustics only, even though its impossible for us to know which side shoots what weapon, it's 2 automatic weapons, 1 sniper rifle and 1 pistol. I don't believe that that is relevant at all though, I think that's just a soundfile Hope used because it was available.

The one thing, that's not in doubt, is that Gracie was targeted. Single shot - center mass, there is no way that that was a coincidence or mistake. And the full auto afterwards makes perfect sense too, it's to facilitate the escape. You hit your target and then spray and pray to use the confusion to get away.

Furthermore, Antonio looking out the window and not seeing a shooter on full automatic that has breached the perimeter are slim to none. As I said before full auto was only used to get away, they clearly didn't breach the perimeter.

Could it have been an "rogue ombra" ? Well I guess, but after the event just before, they have to rank comfortably at the bottom of the pile of potential shooters. You don't poke a bear after you run out of ammo, and from what we are told, they are at their weakest at the moment, so it makes zero sense.
 

Hellkinglucifer

Active Member
Apr 29, 2020
803
1,906
I think Gracie near-death situation( lets be honest no way hopes kills gracie unless he wants an angry mob to burn him alive) will finally allow us to get rid of the passive/reactive MC and see a more bloodthirsty/revenge seeking one if only temporarily.

MC reaction shows that he has realised he is no longer a guy trying to get rid of a contract binding him but a full on member of the Deluca Family. No more wimpy, 'will not kill' puppy, the girl closest to him nearly died. Time to put bodies in the ground.
 

Zorrion

Newbie
Mar 18, 2020
97
176
I'm replaying this game but did they add new content I don't remember some of these scenes although it has been like a year or two
 

c3p0

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Respected User
Nov 20, 2017
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Really? Cordia is born on February 31st? :LOL:
Yes. And she dislike cold tea and like hot tea.
I think Gracie near-death situation( lets be honest no way hopes kills gracie unless he wants an angry mob to burn him alive) will finally allow us to get rid of the passive/reactive MC and see a more bloodthirsty/revenge seeking one if only temporarily.
No.....
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Thierry29

Member
Jun 3, 2017
128
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Question for only Deluca's fan ^^

if my memories is not to weak: When MC does contracts, he meet a old man who known is father. The old man initiated the contract( only 1 time event with the dog). is he Nazario ?
 

ARB582

Active Member
Jan 6, 2018
548
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Question for only Deluca's fan ^^

if my memories is not to weak: When MC does contracts, he meet a old man who known is father. The old man initiated the contract( only 1 time event with the dog). is he Nazario ?
Don't think so.
I remember his 'name' was steadfast
 

matschbirne

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2019
1,261
6,569
Question for only Deluca's fan ^^

if my memories is not to weak: When MC does contracts, he meet a old man who known is father. The old man initiated the contract( only 1 time event with the dog). is he Nazario ?
that's what I thought, too.:unsure:
 

Penfold Mole

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May 22, 2017
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Gio

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Aug 12, 2016
340
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I wish you could build in a complete mission cheat cause they suck to the point that I deleted this game! I liked it when it first came out but sometimes "re-inventing the wheel" is not a good thing...

This mission nonsense is too much like an RPG game mixed with a mid 1970's DOS game [on a 5.25" floppy] and I'm over it!
there are pictures,story etc in missions so I dont see any1 doing it
 

Sille

Newbie
Jan 5, 2021
46
29
Hello... In the whole game, MC has sex (penetration) with only one girl (Eiza) ???!..
or something is not working properly in my game..
Thank you!
 

operamini

Member
Sep 2, 2019
222
358
And you always could use a bigger gun...
The Deluca mansion is in the city they control. So, if one with a weapon would fire upon that mansion, then they already have failed. Sure, bullet proof glass can withstand some projectils, but it is a question of the design. Thus, what calibre should the bullet proof glass withstand?
Guns and assault rifles? For that you would need to be in the perimeter of the mansion itself, where your (normal) guard should keep you safe.
But against 0.50" / 12.7 mm or higher, even AP rounds?
Good Defense Systems are built in layers, you don't ignore all other defense options just because you also have guards, They are a crime family, sooner or later there could be a war, in which case you want to be prepared, specially when you have a mansion full of windows it quickly becomes a weak point to be explored, as entry points as well, by having the windows bullet proof it makes all lower caliber weapons that would be most useful in an assault not effective against it, forcing the attackers to enter through the main doors limiting their choices, and making sure the Delucas are relatively safe inside, of course it wouldn't stop a armor penetrating 50 cal for example, but you can't make an army out of 50 cal guys.
Do Mina really care ?
Sending someone strike in a main house. Believing that her Family is still among the most powerful while they lost everything above the capo rank, before saying the opposite when facing Nazazi to make him looks crazy. Threatening to kill the heir of the Silverino Family. Believing that the Silverino is still a totally insignificant Family. Trying to lecture Nazazi right after, and because, he killed the guy that pulled a gun on him.
We can't really say that she's smart.

But what we can say is that she maintains a certain animosity against the DeLuca ; probably because they sided with the Carnefice and are still reluctant to use the service of the Ombra Family. I'm sure that there's many people outside of the Ombra Family that she could have sent to kill MC. Yet she choose the heir of the defunct Carnefice Family, and knowingly sent her strike in the main house, when she could have had him killed during one of his many solo mission (the one that happen behind the game because he haven't had only five missions so far). Whatever if Eiza succeeded or not. The heir Carnefice killing, or at least trying to kill, someone in the DeLuca main house... It's like a sister backstabbing her brother, an irony that Mina surely savored, and what a shame for the DeLuca Family.
We also know, again thanks to Siobhan, that Mina is scheming since apparently a long time. Deluded as she is, she probably believe that she now have strong alliances with the other Families, and that they would stand at her side in case of war against the relatively disliked DeLuca.
Of course, Nazazi wouldn't agree to this war, but would he have the choice ? Since striking directly the main house is a war declaration, and everyone believe that the DeLuca are a bunch of crazy guys, Mina can perfectly believe that the war would be unavoidable and that Nazazi wouldn't have other choice than to fight back. In fact, him getting back the control, and even more his apologies, serve a deluded Mina scheme ; "Our Don apologized before the strike, and we clearly said that it was some rogue members that we disapprove who did it. And look at those crazy DeLuca, they still started a war ! It's not our fault, you all agree, right ? So, my friends, you'll stand at our size, right ?"

Once again, I don't say that it's what happened, just that it make sense.
That would need to be on the backs of both the Don and the daughter, else the daughter would have said something to the Don considering she has her head in the right place, she would also need most of the family as they don't have much menpower, you just dont pull something like that off without anyone noticing.
Except that it's not what we know.
Nazazi is broken since the day he killed Efrem and Zin. Apparently he gave up on his anger, and killed them for a ridiculous reason. Normally he would have only beaten the shit out of them, but he probably thought that killing Efrem was the best way to prove his father that he's really worthy, since just beating him wasn't enough. Then he realized what he did and broke, living constantly with their ghost in his mind.
And it's not something recent. Learning this, Siobhan first thought was that Zin could have been her mother, and that Nazazi killed her to be with Mina. Therefore it happened at least between her birth and the birth of the oldest of her sisters ; let's say around 18 years ago. But anyway one thing is sure, since Zin is Mina's sister, she was dead before Siobhan's third/fourth birthday, else she would have at least some blurry memories about her, and they would have came back once learning about her from Nazario.

Of course, Nazazi past the lead to Mina years later, partly because he wasn't the Head of the Family at this time, but not recently enough for it to fit the narrative:
  • Siobhan "And you guys think that sending me out on missions without protection will make me strong?"
  • Nazazi "Ha! We only wanted to make you think you weren't protected, to toughen you up a bit."
  • Nazazi "There were always people secretly protecting you. In honesty, I didn't think it would work with you. Weren't you supposed to be the smart one of the bunch? Seems you're not that smart after all."
  • Siobhan "Not surprised you don't know. You're always drunk."
  • Nazazi "What the hell is that supposed to mean?"
  • Siobhan "Someone told your 'secret' people to be so secret that they weren't even there. And since it wasn't you, I guess it must have been Mom."
    [the "it's mom fault because..." part]
  • Nazazi "Ridiculous! Just because you didn't see them, doesn't mean they weren't there!"
  • Siobhan "Then where were they when our enemies came for me? Mostly they don't dare approach me because of who I am. But twice now, my life has been in actual danger."
So, firstly it's not Siobhan who asked for those missions. She probably already wanted to leave the Family at this time.
Secondly, it seem clear that the guys where never there, not a single time. Else Siobhan would have said something among the line of "at first yes, but at first only". Hopes wouldn't have made such mistake. That he misuse a word time to time due to translation issues, yes. But that he totally mess up a dialog line, no, I can't believe it, especially not to this point.
Thirdly, Nazazi use "we" when he talk about this. It's not his decision, it's theirs. And personally I see it as "me and your mother". What make me wrong, there's no loyalty issue here, they just were never told to protect her.
He isn't this dysfunctional for all those "18" years, he gotten worse overtime, during that scene multiple times they allude to him being much more "active" in the past.
I think you are reading too much into that conversation, i don't subscribe to it being required to say that "they were there once" for it to not mean "they were never there"
After knowingly sending Eiza kill someone in the main house... I have difficulties believing that she was honest when she said that.
What doesn't mean that it's the Ombra. As I said, it's a plausible possibility accordingly to what we know about the story. But the truth, only Hopes know it.
Again with the Don back i don't see how she could make such an assault behind his his daughter's back.
Look at the windows exploding, and listen the sound FX, it's a good old shooting with assault rifles. And it's not the DeLuca firing back, we see Antonio avoiding a bullet near the end of the shooting. They clearly infiltrated the perimeter, up to the main house, and with assault rifles. And I really can't believe that they could have did that unnoticed unless it's a long time operation.

A sniper would have shoot once, then waited an opportunity to kill his next target. It's what is great with a sniper, one hour later you still can't be sure that he isn't here waiting for you to make the wrong move.
And why hit Gracie when he could have started with Cordia, Antonio or Luna, who are way more dangerous threats, especially after such attack. Personally, I would have targeted Antonio first. Due to where he is placed, Cordia would have become a perfect target when rushing to him. The DeLuca would have lost their Head and Capo Bastone the same day, being left with (seen from the outside) uninvolved Gracie, and crazy Luna to lead them. Gracie would have done a great job, but this only Wilfred and Cordia know it.
I am pretty sure that first shot was a sniper shot, from outside the perimeter for example, then they started to attack the guards, Why Gracie? it depends on their objective, Gracie is known as the Princess of the town, loved by everyone, if you want to send a real message that's who you go for
There's rules, and sneakily striking the main house goes against all those rules.
Lol rules are meant to be broken, they just mean there could be consequences if someone does it, and whoever is attacking doesn't seem to be much worried about consequences.
 

TimHawk

Active Member
Dec 12, 2017
954
1,620
Good Defense Systems are built in layers, you don't ignore all other defense options just because you also have guards, They are a crime family, sooner or later there could be a war, in which case you want to be prepared, specially when you have a mansion full of windows it quickly becomes a weak point to be explored, as entry points as well, by having the windows bullet proof it makes all lower caliber weapons that would be most useful in an assault not effective against it, forcing the attackers to enter through the main doors limiting their choices, and making sure the Delucas are relatively safe inside, of course it wouldn't stop a armor penetrating 50 cal for example, but you can't make an army out of 50 cal guys.
I think Cordia answered the why already. She wants her home to be a home, not a bastion. She hates the dungeon in the basement, she hates when Antonio kills someone in the house and she wants to shield Gracie from the violence. And just acknowledging that one needs extra layers of protection might have made a younger Gracie feel less safe and less at home.

The real reason however imo is that it was unthinkable that anyone would attack their home outright. It has probably never happened before and now with hindsight it seems a bit too careless, but hindsight works like that with everything.

And lastly, bulletproof glass doesn't exist. There is only bullet resistant glass, which is graded ( as you pointed out yourself ) up to a certain caliber and grain. Against full auto it would've made no difference, but it's particularly good at stoping one or in this case the first bullet, so yes, unless the attacker would have known about any bullet resitant glass, Gracie probably would have been fine.
 
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Moricano

Well-Known Member
Jan 30, 2019
1,666
1,126
Version: 0.09.0
This game is very complicated.
You take the 1 mission at the beginning of the game which is called The Contract.
Everywhere I went I got screwed, with the newsboy at the newsstand I already lose 1 point because I don't have charisma, with the hottie at the pool I lose 1 point because I don't have charisma.
Now how do you get a mission that only involves Charisma?!!!!
The DV of this game fixed so much in this game and didn't fix anything about the starting stat of the Mc, the guy is dumb with no intelligence, he can't get anything because he has no charisma, he can't get anything of value because he has no skill to sneak in the truth the Mc here is a zero to the left.
It's a losing game.
It should have a starting skill stat for things to work out right at first, but there isn't a MC stat box about Acquired Skills or something like that.:sick:
 

Cartageno

Devoted Member
Dec 1, 2019
8,766
14,877
This game is very complicated.
You take the 1 mission at the beginning of the game which is called The Contract.
Everywhere I went I got screwed, with the newsboy at the newsstand I already lose 1 point because I don't have charisma, with the hottie at the pool I lose 1 point because I don't have charisma.
Now how do you get a mission that only involves Charisma?!!!!
The DV of this game fixed so much in this game and didn't fix anything about the starting stat of the Mc, the guy is dumb with no intelligence, he can't get anything because he has no charisma, he can't get anything of value because he has no skill to sneak in the truth the Mc here is a zero to the left.
It's a losing game.
It should have a starting skill stat for things to work out right at first, but there isn't a MC stat box about Acquired Skills or something like that.:sick:
Well, games like this usually do start out with too low stats to do everything (sometimes even anything) and part of the gameplay experience is getting your stats up so you can progress. If that ain't your cuppa, that's understandable, but it's nothing to be fixed.
 
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