Ren'Py Abandoned The DeLuca Family [Season 1] [HopesGaming]

[anne O'nymous]

I mean you kinda answered your own question, Gracie gets shot, Cordia stands up, THEN the windows explode. Automatic fire is X shots per SECOND, there is no standing up in between or rushing to a window before the 2nd, 3rd or 10th shot hits.

Yes, I answered. The delay between the shot that hit Gracie, in slow motion, and the moment where the windows exploded is limited to the instant needed for someone to jump on his feet. And when this someone is the Blizzard Queen, this instant is below one tenth of second.
What doesn't mean that Gracie wasn't hit by a single shot. But it also clearly mean that, unlike what you said, the assailants haven't waited a single second before opening full fire. Then, due to the aiming and precision capabilities offered by an assault rifle, even when turned in single shoot, if the assailants were outside the perimeter like you said, and the shot that hit Gracie was lucky. Or it was effectively an aimed shot, like you also say, and therefore the assailants were at really short range.

The first shot was a SINGLE AIMED shot, and if you can't see that from all that, then I can't help you any further.

You are kidding, right ? Why the fucking fuck would you want to help me ?

No one is here to prove that he's right, and even less that the other is wrong. Breaking news, there's 95% chances that everyone is wrong ; and I said it explicitly twice.
This is nothing more than an opened debate on a public forum. I don't care this much what you think, and you should care even less what I think. We discuss to share our point of view, and to get from other perspectives what we can possibly have missed. This while feeding readers' thoughts. Everything else is just useless vanity.
Hell, you don't even know what are my effective thoughts regarding this scene. All you know is that I said, "you are wrong", to someone stating that there's no way that it can be the Ombra, then explaining why. But believing that it's what I think happened would be presumptuous. I'm just debating, and there's no debate if you don't present opposing arguments to feed the others thoughts and, in return, have yours fed.

Number one would be less video games and more reality. Military snipers get trained on Center mass shots, NOT headshots !!!

And to prefer the T box at short and really short range (where he was) when the target need to be incapacitated. Especially when it's a static target, what Gracie was.
What goes back to my questions, why not kill Gracie, and if really he didn't knew better, why not effectively aim for the heart, that was an easy target at this range ? A mourning Cordia would have been less dangerous than a really angry Cordia ; they know it, they already faced a mourning Cordia in the past (it's a gift for you, another overview on my effective thoughts).

Number two its not Hope that needs an anatomy lesson but you.

Thanks you for this marvelous schema showing that the shot missed the heart by a hand... Wait, isn't it what I said ?
And kudo for your dedication in order to find a too centered representation of the heart.

Number 4 you said it yourself, Antonio ran to the window and we've seen the outside of the house, there is nothing but open fields and yet he has to guess who the attacker is, meaning he can't see him or her or them. So there must have been a certain distance between the attacker and the house, which again points to a long range precision rifle.

Why are you forgetting the part where I said that the property is full of trees (that offer perfect cover) and surrounded by a two meters wall (that prevent any shooting above short range) ? But I guess that they disguised themselves as workers, and carried step ladders to conceal their assault rifles.

Hope said he will hold an Q&A soon, ask him straight up if it was a sniper or not, if you really need any more clarification, but to me this is so obvious, there shouldn't even be a discussion.

Well, I guess that it answer my indirect question above.

 

[c3p0]

Why are you forgetting the part where I said that the property is full of trees (that offer perfect cover) and surrounded by a two meters wall (that prevent any shooting above short range) ? But I guess that they disguised themselves as workers, and carried step ladders to conceal their assault rifles.

As to proof that:

 

[anne O'nymous]

As to proof that:

Be noted that there's also the houses all around that add to the difficulty of the task.
Shooting from the other side of the wall imply that the Capos/Soldatos/Gents living in those houses can shoot you in the back without problems, and while having full cover since they are inside their house. While shooting from inside the property mean that you have the wall to cover your back.
To some extend, you can also fire from a car, the alley to the house is straight as far as I remember. But I guess that, if you can see the windows from the car, Antonio would have seen the car from his window.

 

[Sir Ice]

Just coming here to say again that any game that loses save compatibility between updates should no longer be played.

 

[crabsinthekitchen]

just coming here to say that expecting save compatibility from a single dev who works on a game in his free time is a bit too much when even big gamedev companies

You must be registered to see the links

 

[Checkman]

Problem here is, you can train for some posion resistance, but you some poison don't act like that and you can't build up a resitance.

Therefore, if the culpirt know that the MC has some poison resistance (and would be intelligent about it). Then only two case exist: He want the MC dead or he don't want the MC dead and only want to show whatever he wants.

If you go with the first case, then you would either use a concentration that even kill the elephant or just use a poison that is know that you can't build up a resistance for it - and even then you could use a dose way over the LD50.

For the later case the MC poison resistance is mostly irrelevant. You would use a dose that is sure to not cause the death of the MC. For that you can use every poison in the right dose without knowing of the MC resistance. If you aren't nasty, you would use a poison that don't have a long time accumulation effect.
Also if you want to come to a near dead situtation for the MC, you would need to know a lot about the poison you use and the MC (eg. his weight). So using a poison that you know the MC has a resistance to it, would bring you another variable into the calculation (restiance level), thus making the choice for the right dose more complicated than needed.

Just feels weird I guess, again what I wrote about the culprit I pretty much stated that it wasn't Wilfred probably, but the most clues point out to him until we learn more. I still believe that the ones who attacked the MC just wanted to scare him, since according to Gracie they used a 'lethal amount to kill a human'.
Again as you said they could have just used an amount that would kill an elephant or something, if they wanted to kill him, so why risk something like that? Still feels like they wanted to scare him with a 'human killing amount' since they knew it would not in fact kill him. And if you think about it it leaves a lot of questions.
Who made the meal?
Who delivered it?
Could have someone noticed something?
Meh, we'll see.

Canelony? He has one skill and that is his beard, false, we mean stealth. As far as we remembered, his skill level is so high that is it Serpent level. And all, even Wilfred, have multiple time think that Canelony died in a mission because of that. Also from skill level side, only Cordia may be Serpent level. Wilfred, Antonio, Isabel, Luna, Gracie and MC are not - at least to our knowledge. Some of them may have Serpent potential, but they aren't yet on Serpent level.
So in this world, with the Delcua world logic, we think that isn't that unbelievable that they may not have detected the assasin. Also, if we are not wrong, it was stated that they sense a enemy by its killing intent. So, why could anyone beside the MC sense that, when they weren't her target?

I was being sarcastic and thinking about the MC when I said I can't remember who not Joey. I was thinking that the MC doesn't have more skill than Wilfred. We don't know the layout of the MC's room, but since it was a bathroom highly doubt there were windows and you tell me Wilfred wouldn't know that someone has entered the house.

 

[Cartageno]

Just coming here to say again that any game that loses save compatibility between updates should no longer be played.

It is your own prerogative what criteria to set if you want to play games. But games in development will have bugs, will have retcons, and yes, often will have save game troubles. If you can't handle the broken saves, you indeed should stay out of the "in development" section. Mechanics change necessitating major changes or just plain simple errors will happen all the time - one-person hobby dev or multi million AAA company, and to expect otherwise is naive at best.

 

[Deleted member 2028009]

Is it worth playing or should I just wait for next update. any progress on story?

 

[Checkman]

Could be? So no evidence that there was "more than one poison"?
Most likely? Based on what? Your imagination?
Where is the evidence for this assumption?

If I am correct about that one I think I wrote about his mother giving him more than one poison to build up resistance. Based on what? First of all it is a theory and second... common sense? Why build a resistance against one poison, it makes no sense at all. If it makes sense to build resistance against one poison among of all the possible choices then it is my fault and you are a being beyond my comprehension so I am sorry o Mighty One. I guess they just use 1 poison in the mafia world...

Says who?
Being resistant to poison is engineered by building up a resistance to it.
Being resistant to Arsenic is not gonna do Jack, if you get poisoned by Cyanide.
Where is the evidence for this assumption?

Same answer as before, just tell my why does it make sense to be resistant to one type of poison if one is trying to build resistance against poison? Unless as I mentioned a few times only one poison exists in DeLuca world or MC simply got lucky with the type of poison, which is simply dumb as fuck from a writing standpoint. We can almost be 100% sure that a truly deathly poison like 'Cyanide' wasn't used since there are in fact poisons like it that you simply can't build resistances from no matter how much you try. The amount used for the MC was lethal to humans so he would have died if something without resistance was used.

Why "must" they?
What Wilfred said, about knowing everything in the house, has absolutely nothing to do with MC being a child in a different house.

Everyone says he is important to the DeLucas, so maybe that is why? Wouldn't you check on a child that is extremely important to your family? And would it be that difficult for them to do it? They did say he was monitored ever since he was a child, and you say they haven't at least once checked his in-house situation? Unless, they saw him once in a playground and said "Bro this kid is going to become a god" then fair enough you were right. Again it is a theory and common sense, if they in fact monitored him ever since he was a child. That means a prolonged period of time not just once.

What are you talking about? No-one detected her. That's how she was able to get inside MC's room and aim a gun at him.
She's an assassin, trained by the best assassins.
But yeah, sneaking in is obviously not on her training schedule. Despite the clear & absolute evidence that she did so.

No one? How about the MC, he detected her way before she was inside his room at least 40-60 seconds before that? If we had more info it would make more sense, I guess. Was he awake or no? When did he detect her? How long did it take him to set up his trap? How long did he wait? If she was close to his room why didn't she hear him move from his bed in the dead of the night? As you said she comes from the most skilled of assassins, shouldn't good hearing be one of the most basic skills an assassin should have?
Unless there is a window inside his room in which case MC wouldn't be able to hear her at all until she was pretty much next to it, she is a top assassin, there is no echo outside and if she was being careful then she would not be heard at all until she touched the window.

No-one has radar. It's not a "who has the best hearing competition".
Cordia, Wilfred, Antonio & Luna are not super-humans, with bat hearing.
They were all presumably in their own rooms.
MC detecting her when she exposed herself to kill him (in HIS room), but them not detecting her as she manoeuvres around, (NOT in their rooms), is not in the least bit surprising.

No one mentioned any radars, but again more information on how everything was done would be helpful. Presumably in their rooms. But what if Wilfred was not, if you can tell me who am I to assume shit who are you to assume he was not? If you look closely their conversation lasted a up to a minute, max two.
If Wilfred was in his room as you said, you are going to tell me that he woke up and dressed up in a few second at around the time when the MC pointed the gun at Eiza and came inside that short span of time. He was properly dressed and his clothes are not really the ones a person can quickly put on.
That whole conversation didn't last that long. Unless Wilfred sleeps dressed.

But one thing you wrote here was super funny I simply need to quote it, "MC detecting her when she exposed herself to kill him (in HIS room)" so you say he noticed her only when she exposed herself in HIS room, that is what you wrote not me.
So yeah I apologize, clearly in a split second the MC made a trap and 'waited for her' as he said, at the time she exposed herself. I mean it makes sense he did all that in 1 second. I have to hand it off to you that makes so much sense. It's sarcasm, since you can't clearly understand it.

 

[Checkman]

Jesus wept, she's from the most skilled assassins in the DeLuca world.
But no, of course someone would spot her, because she's just that shit at her job.
Maybe that's why she subsequently got hired by DeLuca's, because she's so shit at her job?
No. They hired her because she'd proven herself adept at her job.
She got inside the house and made it to MC's room undetected, because that's what she's been trained to do, by the best in the business.

First of all never said hired by DeLucas, but Wilfred. Cordia is THE Deluca and Wilfred is known to act by himself. And again she couldn't have made to his room undetected as he was 'prepared' for her, he couldn't have prepared that quickly. MC said he waited for her. You said MC discovered her by the time she was INSIDE his room and if he discovered her by the time she was behind his door, or maybe window, he wouldn't have enough time to prepare or at least she would be able to hear him move being top assassin and all.

 

[Shenhan]

Do we know if the walkthrough is getting an update. I want ma points

 

[c3p0]

Again it is a theory and common sense, if they in fact monitored him ever since he was a child. That means a prolonged period of time not just once.

Wanted to point this out too, because observation on public ground and intrusion off a privat property are on different level, but whichone was faster.

Also, if you enter her house, where she, a former Serpent and her child live, can lead to a lot of backfire. It she discovered that they were there, then she may go on a search & destroy mission. If word go, that this is how you treat your most value soldier or friends, tha it is bad publicity at least. And if they encountered her in her own house, then Wilreds division may be a few men or women shorter.

 

[Checkman]

I think I realize what is the problem here. You have zero understanding of basic English grammar. So lemme try to help you.

If there is one particular poison that your enemies frequently use, it would be dumb as fuck to build a resistance to any other.
Much like snake venom, they won't give you anti-venom for a different toxin, it would be worthless. They'll give you anti-venom for the one you were injected with.

"If there is one particular poison your enemies frequently use." IF there is one.
But that itself makes a lot of problems. Everyone can pretty much poison anyone anytime and it would be an easy kill to do so with a lot of deniability.

If actually there is a one particular poison every single family uses, then sure it does make sense and you are right. Then wouldn't everyone try to build some sort of resistance making the poison useless. Why risking getting poisoned by something that has a lot of deniability.
Or if one particular family uses that poison then they would easily be detected or easily framed.
Again I am not putting any false narrative I am using common sense. If it's wrong it's wrong.

Common sense definition; Good sense and sound judgement in practical matters. To translate it, it means something that should be normal knowledge.

Or DeLucas are just overconfident as fuck. Then I am absolutely wrong about everything I said, but I like to think they aren't.

Did you not pay any attention to the story? His Mother (& presumably his Father) were OG Serpents.
Of course they're going to keep an eye on the offspring, to see if he develops any worthy talents.
They do not need to do home intrusion, to achieve that.
It's not rocket science.

It is not rocket science as you said, but is it so hard to believe they did in fact look at least once? I am not saying they did I am saying that it is possible they did.

Because he was.
It does not mention the level of intrusion they went to & the only evidence is of them standing in a park, watching a spat between school-children.
There is zero evidence of them knowing what went on inside his home.
His Mother is an ex-Serpent. She also seems rather paranoid & mentally disturbed.
Do you really think they're going to want to piss her off?

"There is zero evidence of them knowing what went on inside his home." Yeah you are right on that one, and I just made an educated guess based on the fact that The Serpent monitored her, without any problems I assume, so yeah I think they would do that.
But lemme give you another lesson of English grammar.

I believe Wilfred or Giltard (the Wilfred Division leader) said "He was monitored ever since he was a child." or "He has been monitored ever since he was a child."
First is past tense in passive voice, but since here we had "ever since" it means something was done from that point into the past up until a certain point into the future.
Second one is present perfect continuous, which means a certain action was done from that point into the past up until present time.
It is basic grammar not bullshit narrative.

"She also seems rather paranoid & mentally disturbed." Where did you get that information? Would YOU really as a voice of reason stoop so low to make up some random bullshit to fit your narrative?
Serpent certainly monitored her, so yeah I think they would piss her off.

I never said anything of the sort.
Stop making up random bullshit to fit your narrative.
I said there is no evidence that they had surveillance inside his house.
Because there isn't.

A beautiful teaching moment of grammar indeed.
If you say, well "you say" in the context I wrote it, it has a meaning of "you think?" not "literally/exactly/correctly/word for word/strictly/accurately" repeating what you said or putting words into your mouth.

No, but you stated that Wilfred "must" have detected Eiza.
I simply provided plausible reasons for why no-one, including Wilfred, detected her.
You're making him out to be some sort of super-human, when he's just a man, ergo "he doesn't have radar, or bat hearing.".

You really didn't give any plausible reasons for why no one detected her. You only said one reason and that is that she was an assassin form one of the best assassin houses. Is that really a good reason without saying anything extra?
My reasoning as I mentioned and you are simply ignoring it, was that Wilfred got to the room way too quickly, like way too quickly for him not to have noticed her. Unless he is a superhuman. Then again I am wrong.

You are blatantly trying to twist things to fit your narrative, yet you have not provided a single piece of evidence that supports your narrative, only speculative stretches of what "could", "maybe", or "might" have happened.
The actual, real, evidence does not support your narrative, currently.

I am not trying to insult you or anything, but are you blind? Your reason is "she is a really good assassin", that is it.
I did provide quite a lot of evidence actually and you avoid to mention it like it's plague which is that everything happened way too quickly for Wilfred not to be able to notice her already.
And I will write it again, their conversation was way too short for him to get there that quickly all dressed up and fancy. But let's give you even more evidence. Only during one point did MC raise his voice and that was somewhere in the middle of their conversation. If he in fact heart that, he still came way to quickly into the room.
Given all that I still think he in fact noticed her because he came to the room way too quickly. How is that not good evidence?

 

[Checkman]

Wanted to point this out too, because observation on public ground and intrusion off a privat property are on different level, but whichone was faster.
Also, if you enter her house, where she, a former Serpent and her child live, can lead to a lot of backfire. It she discovered that they were there, then she may go on a search & destroy mission. If word go, that this is how you treat your most value soldier or friends, tha it is bad publicity at least. And if they encountered her in her own house, then Wilreds division may be a few men or women shorter.

The Serpent already monitored her with no apparent backfire.

If as you said she was a valuable soldier (Which she was) or still a friend, why wouldn't they just come to her? But, if she was a possible traitor, wouldn't they appear rather weak to just let her go?

 

[TimHawk]

I really wanna know just how much of an badass MC's mom was. It's really tricky to judge how good they really were, we only got the story from their side and since Lady C. and MC's mom were the serpent "founders" there can't have been any rules or requirements in place, they just won the big war and everyone started calling them serpents.

The last episode especially challenged how good I believed them to be with Nazazi saying he never lost to one of the OG serpents and he even beat one of the new serpents - whoever that refers too. Now "new" back when Nazazi was way younger so I assume around the time when Cordia and MC's mom split ?

And then Quinzio says he believes he can beat everyone except his master, THE Serpent and Nazazi - so that includes Antonio, Cordia and the other 3 serpents ?!

Maybe we need more people outside the Deluca's talk about the serpents, so we get a more accurate and realistic idea of them, so people will stop believing that they have bat-hearing, x-ray eyes and can move faster than bullets

 

[Checkman]

So your primary response is a pathetically weak attempt to insult my intelligence?
Yeah, good luck with that. Thanks for showing us your capability.

Your whole argument is speculation.
What I provided are facts, presented in game.
You can keep trying to put down my intelligence, it doesn't alter anything.
You're still arguing against facts presented in-game.

You have nothing to say that is worth listening to, goodbye.

First of all not insulting your intelligence, don't put the words into my mouth. Second not knowing the grammar of what is most likely your second language isn't anything shameful, but when you insult my grammar with saying things I haven't said, I will respond, know that. I do insult your grammar, but the fact that you like to argue actually tells me that you are intelligent, not stupid.
And again you have never debunked any of the things I have said. You just said they are not possible, that is it.
How did you provide any facts when we do not know much about how anything works in this world. All I am doing is giving educated guesses.

And you are still avoiding the fact that Wilfred got there way too quickly so yeah.

Edit. Shit, accidentally seen the part where you mentioned Wilfred entering fast was not a fact , but sadly you deleted it, but let me elaborate on why at least that out of everything I sad was a fact.
It's not like we were watching the whole ordeal happen right before our eyes or something, and it really wasn't long at all.

 

[Checkman]

Having a proper power scaling would help so much.

 

[Cartageno]

Uhm, whichone, checkman? How about a visit to the pub, a cold brew, a game of Bridge and a group hug? Maybe Eiza can give a small dance performance?

 

[TimHawk]

"She also seems rather paranoid & mentally disturbed." Where did you get that information? Would YOU really as a voice of reason stoop so low to make up some random bullshit to fit your narrative?
Serpent certainly monitored her, so yeah I think they would piss her off.

Don't wanna get involved in all the rest, but I gotta side with Whichone on this one. Something must have happened to her mind and the reason I believe so is the Scene where she administers the poison to the MC.

Now as a mother, even if thats something she HAS TO DO to save his life down the line, knowing that the poison will make it hard for her son to breath...wouldn't any mother hold her son in her arms and comfort him through the entire ordeal ?

And yet what does Rina do ? She keeps her son exactly out of arms reach, as if treating him like a lab experiment, as he slowly loses consciousness from not being able to breath.

Now im not a psychiatrist, but just for that imo "mentally disturbed" is fair and accurate. It's pretty fucked up imo.

 

[vogelbeest]

If there is one particular poison that your enemies frequently use, it would be dumb as fuck to build a resistance to any other.
Much like snake venom, they won't give you anti-venom for a different toxin, it would be worthless. They'll give you anti-venom for the type you were injected with.

The whole idea of being "poison immune" has been practised for several centuries, it's called "Mithridatism" after king Mithridates who digested about all poisonous substances known in very small doses....
It's not about what poisons your enemy uses and building a resistance to them, it's about having resistance against whatever poison an enemy might use...