Ren'Py Abandoned The DeLuca Family [Season 1] [HopesGaming]

[c3p0]

Again it is a theory and common sense, if they in fact monitored him ever since he was a child. That means a prolonged period of time not just once.

Wanted to point this out too, because observation on public ground and intrusion off a privat property are on different level, but whichone was faster.

Also, if you enter her house, where she, a former Serpent and her child live, can lead to a lot of backfire. It she discovered that they were there, then she may go on a search & destroy mission. If word go, that this is how you treat your most value soldier or friends, tha it is bad publicity at least. And if they encountered her in her own house, then Wilreds division may be a few men or women shorter.

 

[Checkman]

I think I realize what is the problem here. You have zero understanding of basic English grammar. So lemme try to help you.

If there is one particular poison that your enemies frequently use, it would be dumb as fuck to build a resistance to any other.
Much like snake venom, they won't give you anti-venom for a different toxin, it would be worthless. They'll give you anti-venom for the one you were injected with.

"If there is one particular poison your enemies frequently use." IF there is one.
But that itself makes a lot of problems. Everyone can pretty much poison anyone anytime and it would be an easy kill to do so with a lot of deniability.

If actually there is a one particular poison every single family uses, then sure it does make sense and you are right. Then wouldn't everyone try to build some sort of resistance making the poison useless. Why risking getting poisoned by something that has a lot of deniability.
Or if one particular family uses that poison then they would easily be detected or easily framed.
Again I am not putting any false narrative I am using common sense. If it's wrong it's wrong.

Common sense definition; Good sense and sound judgement in practical matters. To translate it, it means something that should be normal knowledge.

Or DeLucas are just overconfident as fuck. Then I am absolutely wrong about everything I said, but I like to think they aren't.

Did you not pay any attention to the story? His Mother (& presumably his Father) were OG Serpents.
Of course they're going to keep an eye on the offspring, to see if he develops any worthy talents.
They do not need to do home intrusion, to achieve that.
It's not rocket science.

It is not rocket science as you said, but is it so hard to believe they did in fact look at least once? I am not saying they did I am saying that it is possible they did.

Because he was.
It does not mention the level of intrusion they went to & the only evidence is of them standing in a park, watching a spat between school-children.
There is zero evidence of them knowing what went on inside his home.
His Mother is an ex-Serpent. She also seems rather paranoid & mentally disturbed.
Do you really think they're going to want to piss her off?

"There is zero evidence of them knowing what went on inside his home." Yeah you are right on that one, and I just made an educated guess based on the fact that The Serpent monitored her, without any problems I assume, so yeah I think they would do that.
But lemme give you another lesson of English grammar.

I believe Wilfred or Giltard (the Wilfred Division leader) said "He was monitored ever since he was a child." or "He has been monitored ever since he was a child."
First is past tense in passive voice, but since here we had "ever since" it means something was done from that point into the past up until a certain point into the future.
Second one is present perfect continuous, which means a certain action was done from that point into the past up until present time.
It is basic grammar not bullshit narrative.

"She also seems rather paranoid & mentally disturbed." Where did you get that information? Would YOU really as a voice of reason stoop so low to make up some random bullshit to fit your narrative?
Serpent certainly monitored her, so yeah I think they would piss her off.

I never said anything of the sort.
Stop making up random bullshit to fit your narrative.
I said there is no evidence that they had surveillance inside his house.
Because there isn't.

A beautiful teaching moment of grammar indeed.
If you say, well "you say" in the context I wrote it, it has a meaning of "you think?" not "literally/exactly/correctly/word for word/strictly/accurately" repeating what you said or putting words into your mouth.

No, but you stated that Wilfred "must" have detected Eiza.
I simply provided plausible reasons for why no-one, including Wilfred, detected her.
You're making him out to be some sort of super-human, when he's just a man, ergo "he doesn't have radar, or bat hearing.".

You really didn't give any plausible reasons for why no one detected her. You only said one reason and that is that she was an assassin form one of the best assassin houses. Is that really a good reason without saying anything extra?
My reasoning as I mentioned and you are simply ignoring it, was that Wilfred got to the room way too quickly, like way too quickly for him not to have noticed her. Unless he is a superhuman. Then again I am wrong.

You are blatantly trying to twist things to fit your narrative, yet you have not provided a single piece of evidence that supports your narrative, only speculative stretches of what "could", "maybe", or "might" have happened.
The actual, real, evidence does not support your narrative, currently.

I am not trying to insult you or anything, but are you blind? Your reason is "she is a really good assassin", that is it.
I did provide quite a lot of evidence actually and you avoid to mention it like it's plague which is that everything happened way too quickly for Wilfred not to be able to notice her already.
And I will write it again, their conversation was way too short for him to get there that quickly all dressed up and fancy. But let's give you even more evidence. Only during one point did MC raise his voice and that was somewhere in the middle of their conversation. If he in fact heart that, he still came way to quickly into the room.
Given all that I still think he in fact noticed her because he came to the room way too quickly. How is that not good evidence?

 

[Checkman]

Wanted to point this out too, because observation on public ground and intrusion off a privat property are on different level, but whichone was faster.
Also, if you enter her house, where she, a former Serpent and her child live, can lead to a lot of backfire. It she discovered that they were there, then she may go on a search & destroy mission. If word go, that this is how you treat your most value soldier or friends, tha it is bad publicity at least. And if they encountered her in her own house, then Wilreds division may be a few men or women shorter.

The Serpent already monitored her with no apparent backfire.

If as you said she was a valuable soldier (Which she was) or still a friend, why wouldn't they just come to her? But, if she was a possible traitor, wouldn't they appear rather weak to just let her go?

 

[TimHawk]

I really wanna know just how much of an badass MC's mom was. It's really tricky to judge how good they really were, we only got the story from their side and since Lady C. and MC's mom were the serpent "founders" there can't have been any rules or requirements in place, they just won the big war and everyone started calling them serpents.

The last episode especially challenged how good I believed them to be with Nazazi saying he never lost to one of the OG serpents and he even beat one of the new serpents - whoever that refers too. Now "new" back when Nazazi was way younger so I assume around the time when Cordia and MC's mom split ?

And then Quinzio says he believes he can beat everyone except his master, THE Serpent and Nazazi - so that includes Antonio, Cordia and the other 3 serpents ?!

Maybe we need more people outside the Deluca's talk about the serpents, so we get a more accurate and realistic idea of them, so people will stop believing that they have bat-hearing, x-ray eyes and can move faster than bullets

 

[Checkman]

So your primary response is a pathetically weak attempt to insult my intelligence?
Yeah, good luck with that. Thanks for showing us your capability.

Your whole argument is speculation.
What I provided are facts, presented in game.
You can keep trying to put down my intelligence, it doesn't alter anything.
You're still arguing against facts presented in-game.

You have nothing to say that is worth listening to, goodbye.

First of all not insulting your intelligence, don't put the words into my mouth. Second not knowing the grammar of what is most likely your second language isn't anything shameful, but when you insult my grammar with saying things I haven't said, I will respond, know that. I do insult your grammar, but the fact that you like to argue actually tells me that you are intelligent, not stupid.
And again you have never debunked any of the things I have said. You just said they are not possible, that is it.
How did you provide any facts when we do not know much about how anything works in this world. All I am doing is giving educated guesses.

And you are still avoiding the fact that Wilfred got there way too quickly so yeah.

Edit. Shit, accidentally seen the part where you mentioned Wilfred entering fast was not a fact , but sadly you deleted it, but let me elaborate on why at least that out of everything I sad was a fact.
It's not like we were watching the whole ordeal happen right before our eyes or something, and it really wasn't long at all.

 

[Checkman]

Having a proper power scaling would help so much.

 

[Cartageno]

Uhm, whichone, checkman? How about a visit to the pub, a cold brew, a game of Bridge and a group hug? Maybe Eiza can give a small dance performance?

 

[TimHawk]

"She also seems rather paranoid & mentally disturbed." Where did you get that information? Would YOU really as a voice of reason stoop so low to make up some random bullshit to fit your narrative?
Serpent certainly monitored her, so yeah I think they would piss her off.

Don't wanna get involved in all the rest, but I gotta side with Whichone on this one. Something must have happened to her mind and the reason I believe so is the Scene where she administers the poison to the MC.

Now as a mother, even if thats something she HAS TO DO to save his life down the line, knowing that the poison will make it hard for her son to breath...wouldn't any mother hold her son in her arms and comfort him through the entire ordeal ?

And yet what does Rina do ? She keeps her son exactly out of arms reach, as if treating him like a lab experiment, as he slowly loses consciousness from not being able to breath.

Now im not a psychiatrist, but just for that imo "mentally disturbed" is fair and accurate. It's pretty fucked up imo.

 

[vogelbeest]

If there is one particular poison that your enemies frequently use, it would be dumb as fuck to build a resistance to any other.
Much like snake venom, they won't give you anti-venom for a different toxin, it would be worthless. They'll give you anti-venom for the type you were injected with.

The whole idea of being "poison immune" has been practised for several centuries, it's called "Mithridatism" after king Mithridates who digested about all poisonous substances known in very small doses....
It's not about what poisons your enemy uses and building a resistance to them, it's about having resistance against whatever poison an enemy might use...

 

[Checkman]

Don't wanna get involved in all the rest, but I gotta side with Whichone on this one. Something must have happened to her mind and the reason I believe so is the Scene where she administers the poison to the MC.
Now as a mother, even if thats something she HAS TO DO to save his life down the line, knowing that the poison will make it hard for her son to breath...wouldn't any mother hold her son in her arms and comfort him through the entire ordeal ?
And yet what does Rina do ? She keeps her son exactly out of arms reach, as if treating him like a lab experiment, as he slowly loses consciousness from not being able to breath.
Now im not a psychiatrist, but just for that imo "mentally disturbed" is fair and accurate. It's pretty fucked up imo.

Side with him sure. My problem is that the things I say make no sense, but the things he says do just by saying it is not possible. As simple as that.
She could have been fucked up way before the MC was born. War does shit to people.
But the way Jalen described her as "pathetic" and The Serpent saying she isn't well makes me believe she is physically sick not mentally. Although it can go both ways, so we will have to wait and see her in the present.
Like your argument, though.

 

[TimHawk]

The fact that the Serpents are the primary ones we know about should not, in any way, lead us to believe that other major families do not have high ranks at equivalent skill levels.
The Serpents are badass, absolutely.
But that's when compared to Soldatos, even Elites & (maybe) Capos.
But I imagine it's like trying to compare SAS with SEALS, if looking at what the other families have at their "Serpent equivalent" top ranks
Seems "Serpent" is the true badass among the current Serpents, although we still don't know who the other one is...

Seals&SAS was the perfect analogy imo, I really like that one ! And you are probably even more right than you thought because in any realistic environment that includes guns - training will always win over genetics. Seals/SAS aren't the best because they can run very fast, but because their goverments poured millions up on millions into their training.

And yes the Serpent seems to be very special. Everyone else is "Yes lady cordia" but Serpent seems to have a lot more autonomy than everyone else. At one point Lady Cordia asks him "will you go back now ?" and Serpent without even turning around says smth along the line of "nah, I'm staying here", implying that even she doesn't order him around like the does the rest.

He also went to the Luna/Gracie/MC rescue on his own volition, to protect the MC. I'm also convinced he is the one who fires the sniper rifle in "the painter" contract...to me he has taken on the role of the MC's guardian angel. He is one of the most interessting characters to be sure and I can't wait to learn more about him.

 

[Checkman]

I don't recall the game specifying that he was generically "poison immune", or that he had Mithridatism.
He was specifically immune to this type of poison.
The one his Mother dosed him with.
No mention of any others, whether she used more, or not.

Fuck, don't wanna argue anymore it is not worth it, but Gracie did mention that. And Mithridatism is in fact resistance to one or more poisons.

 

[Checkman]

Seals&SAS was the perfect analogy imo, I really like that one ! And you are probably even more right than you thought because in any realistic environment that includes guns - training will always win over genetics. Seals/SAS aren't the best because they can run very fast, but because their goverments poured millions up on millions into their training.

And yes the Serpent seems to be very special. Everyone else is "Yes lady cordia" but Serpent seems to have a lot more autonomy than everyone else. At one point Lady Cordia asks him "will you go back now ?" and Serpent without even turning around says smth along the line of "nah, I'm staying here", implying that even she doesn't order him around like the does the rest.

He also went to the Luna/Gracie/MC rescue on his own volition, to protect the MC. I'm also convinced he is the one who fires the sniper rifle in "the painter" contract...to me he has taken on the role of the MC's guardian angel. He is one of the most interessting characters to be sure and I can't wait to learn more about him.

I mean is it really good to mention any sort of military force here? I know from the personal example that American 'strongest' army wasn't able to enter my country on foot when we had a war. My country's army, not gonna mention which one, is pathetic compared to the American one. It is genuinely laughable how bad in funding and training we are compared to them and yet the bitches had to resort to dirty tactics to win.
Sometimes a good/dirty tactic, rather than training, talent and anything that you can in fact control will win in the end.

 

[TimHawk]

I mean is it really good to mention any sort of military force here? I know from the personal example that American 'strongest' army wasn't able to enter my country on foot when we had a war. My country's army, not gonna mention which one, is pathetic compared to the American one. It is genuinely laughable how bad in funding and training we are compared to them and yet the bitches had to resort to dirty tactics to win.
Sometimes a good/dirty tactic, rather than training, talent and anything that you can in fact control will win in the end.

They are certainly not some Godmode, like you can get in a game, but you know how the world works. It takes 2 years and a shitload of money to train 1 Navy Seal, so the statistics must support that it's worth it otherwise they would be the first on the money-chopping-block. I mean I'm not telling you a secret but in the end it's always about money.

 

[TimHawk]

I hadn't considered that, but I think that's a good call!!

100%

I really wanna know why he is so protective of the MC. Has it ever been confirmed that the Serpent was Rita's fiance ? Or is that still just a community guess based on the one picture ?

 

[Checkman]

They are certainly not some Godmode, like you can get in a game, but you know how the world works. It takes 2 years and a shitload of money to train 1 Navy Seal, so the statistics must support that it's worth it otherwise they would be the first on the money-chopping-block. I mean I'm not telling you a secret but in the end it's always about money.

No one said anything about a Godmode, just saying it is not a good analogy since the training won't always win against genetics as it was mentioned. Smart, cunning, hard-hearted tacticians win the wars which is in fact genetics and the environment.
I mean doesn't the MC win most of his fights because of his superior genetics?

 

[vogelbeest]

I don't recall the game specifying that he was generically "poison immune", or that he had Mithridatism.
He was specifically immune to this type of poison.
The one his Mother dosed him with.
No mention of any others, whether she used more, or not.

It makes no sense if you can use a number of poisons to be immune to only that exact one used in this case...
The mother clearly knew poisoning was a risk for her son, so she took precautions by raising his resistances to poisons.

The game did not stated he had Mithridatism because Mithridatism is the act of making yourself (or in this case the mother making her son) resistant to as many poisons possible. This makes sense because you don't know which poison will be used.
You only know there will be poisoning attempts.

So if there's 50 poisons you can use, there's a 1 on 50 chance you have resistance, if you train just one poison resistance.
Mithridatism is getting resistances against as many possible, so lets say you now have 40/50 chance you have a resistance against a poison..... So how much chance is there he was only trained to be resistent to exactly that poison?

It really makes no sense to only focus on just one poison, the mother made her son suffer to survive later in his life, doing that for just one poison would make no sense, she was an assassin so she made him resistant to as many poisons possible...
It's not about what is literally said in the game, it's about the logic behind it.

 

[armond]

No one said anything about a Godmode, just saying it is not a good analogy since the training won't always win against genetics as it was mentioned. Smart, cunning, hard-hearted tacticians win the wars which is in fact genetics and the environment.
I mean doesn't the MC win most of his fights because of his superior genetics?

Logistics win wars, look at the current conflict in Ukraine. Russian three day special operation has dragged on for 10 months because the old adage about russian force projection only going as far as russian rail seems to be true. Not to mention the blatant corruption and dropping VDV in the ocean.

 

[TimHawk]

No one said anything about a Godmode, just saying it is not a good analogy since the training won't always win against genetics as it was mentioned. Smart, cunning, hard-hearted tacticians win the wars which is in fact genetics and the environment.
I mean doesn't the MC win most of his fights because of his superior genetics?

No, the MC's forte is reading people and then acting accordingly to negate their strength and exploit their weaknesses. And as we have seen from the playing ground scene, thats a skill he learned and improved/trained from an very early age. I mean you are basically trying to answer the nature vs nurture question and there probably is no easy or right for every situation answer. Was the MC genetically predisposed so that acquiring these skills came easier to him than the avg bloke ? Possibly, maybe even probably.

Now I don't know to which invasion you refered to earlier, but let's take an example from history, the russian invasion of Afghanistan. The afghan people were always incredibly crafty, hardy and had a huge advantage in knowledge of the land, but they still got their butt's kicked by a better trained, better equiped russian army, untill they themselves got training and equipment and they they slowly turned the tide of that war.

So I guess the best I can say is, genetics can influence how fast you learn and how fast you can adapt, but wether its professional training from experts or a person training/learning by themself, I would always bet on training and expirience over genetic predispositons.

 

[vogelbeest]

It doesn't matter what they "could" do, it only matters what they did.
What is shown is that he is immune to that specific poison.
There is no mention of any others.
As such, we only know, for a fact, that he is immune to that specific poison.
We can speculate all day about how, or why, he might be immune to others, but it doesn't change that fact.

So how did his mother know which poison was used? By your reasoning the only possible person to poison MC's food is his mother.... Or do you see any other possibility why he was resistant to this exact poison?

Fact is his mother trained his resistances to poison and that's the reason he survived this poisoning attempt.