Ren'Py Abandoned The DeLuca Family [Season 1] [HopesGaming]

[Jimayo]

And the most logical outcome is that if Rina wanted the MC dead, he would be - period.

I don't know why I have to repeat this, but she's still his mom. It's one thing to give them something that makes them go to sleep and never wake up(at least, you would think that, it's actually extremely painful) and another thing entirely to gut them like a fish. You are ingoring the psychological component. If she wanted a random stranger dead it would no doubt be as easy as you say but if you actually care about them and are trying to make their death as easy on them as possible(as poisoning would suggest, and otherwise she would've stabbed in the eye or shot him in the face). Couple that with someone who cares for him and does everything in their power to keep them out of your reach(and given the way Jalen talks about it, it certainly sounds like he spent oodles of time with Jalen, pops and Jalen's sister) then it becomes much more difficult unless you're willing to stab them in eye or shoot them in the face, and she would have if she wanted.

Otherwise she would've needed to be clairvoyant and know that know he needed a tolerance for that poison to survive a decade later, which is really a ridiculous theory.

I'm sorry for your best friend, I hope he managed to move past it and have a stabil and happy life, things like that are fucked beyond repair.

Wouldn't know. They moved to the boonies a few years later and I never saw him again. Which really sucked.

I do not know anything about crime indeed. But no, I ment 100 Soldatos total, if there are already like 10-15 Capos that we have seen, seems low if they are all running their own crew.

And third times a charm: I mean people out of sight, who would notice a large group of armed people walking towards the building and contacting backup. Not leaving that part to Trino who was standing right in front of the door.

How big do you think a crew is? Generally 5-10. Let's say 10 so 150 total. You think earmarking 2/3 of your forces to guard a building for 2+ weeks is reasonable and won't have a severe negative impact on your business? If I was your enemy I would hope you do something that stupid. Now that all your warehouses are down 2 guards at most I would strike them all and wipe out or steal all of your products and cripple your organisation. And that doesn't even consider how much attention 100 soldiers standing around a building would draw, both from their enemies and from law enforcement. Your plan is not realisitically feasible.

 

[minibaer12]

How big do you think a crew is? Generally 5-10. Let's say 10 so 150 total. You think earmarking 2/3 of your forces to guard a building for 2+ weeks is reasonable and won't have a severe negative impact on your business? If I was your enemy I would hope you do something that stupid. Now that all your warehouses are down 2 guards at most I would strike them all and wipe out or steal all of your products and cripple your organisation. And that doesn't even consider how much attention 100 soldiers standing around a building would draw, both from their enemies and from law enforcement. Your plan is not realisitically feasible.

Only one thing remains as a logical conclusion:

an extremely good sniper

 

[Modhunter]

She's still his mother. Putting a knife or a bullet in your kid and watching them bleed out is a hell of a lot harder to do than poisoning.



Or maybe she just wanted the guy who is somehow important to her, yet wants nothing to do with the contract or her family, to become attached to her daughters, via enforced time together, and therefore invested in her families survival and success. And those that want him dead took the opportunity.

I may be wrong, but, on the other hand, you may be a victim of apopenia. Your mind wants to find patterns and connections where none exist.

Another theory: there was no mention of when Rina went round the bend and it is not actually clear that it was not a murder/suicide attempt. They may have both been taken to have a charcoal latte at the hospital at the same time and then separated. could be a red herring or just coincidence. Could be that his survival prompted them to start the evaulation process to begin with.

 

[Borik0]

Guys, I encountered some kind of a bug? after meeting with protagonists friend in the park, the sound ambience of the park, including birds singing, just won't stop, no matter how far into the game I go. I created a new fresh start with the hope of it being fixed, but no, I still hear DAMN BIRDS SINGING! and it's so annoying. Is there any workaround... -_- ( I am playing latest version of the game, visual novel only mode)

 

[TimHawk]

I don't know why I have to repeat this, but she's still his mom. It's one thing to give them something that makes them go to sleep and never wake up(at least, you would think that, it's actually extremely painful) and another thing entirely to gut them like a fish. You are ingoring the psychological component. If she wanted a random stranger dead it would no doubt be as easy as you say but if you actually care about them and are trying to make their death as easy on them as possible(as poisoning would suggest, and otherwise she would've stabbed in the eye or shot him in the face). Couple that with someone who cares for him and does everything in their power to keep them out of your reach(and given the way Jalen talks about it, it certainly sounds like he spent oodles of time with Jalen, pops and Jalen's sister) then it becomes much more difficult unless you're willing to stab them in eye or shoot them in the face, and she would have if she wanted.

Otherwise she would've needed to be clairvoyant and know that know he needed a tolerance for that poison to survive a decade later, which is really a ridiculous theory.

Okay human psychology, other than crime, that is something I know a lot about, so here is my take.

If a mother made the decision to take her childs life, that decision, if the attempt failed, becomes an all encompassing need to justify the first attempt. It is virtually impossible to stop on ones own accord, because it would be at the very core of that person. And for someone like Rina who has been around death for such a long time and who earned the nickname "red" because she was the most ruthless and brutal of the serpents, once she would have made that decision, knowing all the ins and outs, she would not reverse that decision. A murder-suicide resolution would be infinitely more likely than she just saying "oh well, didn't work, so be it." She would probably alter her method, a srynge while the MC is sleeping or something, but I have zero doubt, that if Rina wanted to kill the MC to spare him, he would be dead now, that's just not a decision you back down from.

Another huge point is, that if the decision is made, you don't short change on dosage, the opposite is true, you overdose by several factors, as an example: if 2 kills, they go for 6 or more.

Wouldn't know. They moved to the boonies a few years later and I never saw him again. Which really sucked.

That really does suck, but life is one big circle, maybe you two run into eachother again.

How big do you think a crew is? Generally 5-10. Let's say 10 so 150 total. You think earmarking 2/3 of your forces to guard a building for 2+ weeks is reasonable and won't have a severe negative impact on your business? If I was your enemy I would hope you do something that stupid. Now that all your warehouses are down 2 guards at most I would strike them all and wipe out or steal all of your products and cripple your organisation. And that doesn't even consider how much attention 100 soldiers standing around a building would draw, both from their enemies and from law enforcement. Your plan is not realisitically feasible.

We are really not getting that one right. 2-3 to cover all entry points, out of sight. The 100 is on me, I ment that Cordia could sent a hundred, and even that was just a random number, if a call for backup would happen. Still totally on me, you just replied to what I said.

As to the total number of the Deluca family, I really don't know, it would depend in large parts on how much of the Family we have already seen.

 

[JJJ84]

Rina was one of the Serpents who betrayed Cordia & exiled (that much is pretty given, there's just far too much evidence pointing to that with both what's been shown in the game itself as well as what's been stated in the codex).

The reason how MC survived the original poisoning by Rina, while on one hand I wouldn't dismiss the whole "she controlled the dosage to make him build tolerance", on the other hand it could be that the DeLucas intervened just before the two of them were killed.

Though, for me personally I'd put slightly more weight on the latter and that Rina did want to kill both herself & MC; the Codex for DeLuca Family entry states that "This act of treachery resulted in a catastrophic fire that claimed the life of third Serpent."

From that line, I think the third Serpent is referring to MC's father, but even so MC's father survived, and he somehow faked his own death only reemerging with the rising of the Silverino Family (and yes. Marrying that Don's eldest daughter Serafina with their son Nero being MC's half-brother).

I can guess that when Rina heard about "death" of MC's father, that really put her into a downward spiral into a much darker mentality with "I won't let my enemies get their hands on me and my son." & decided to go out on her own terms.

Given Rina is very much implied to have a pretty rash personality from descriptions by Cordia & Elektra, I wouldn't say such scenario would be a stretch.

 

[JJJ84]

Guys, I encountered some kind of a bug? after meeting with protagonists friend in the park, the sound ambience of the park, including birds singing, just won't stop, no matter how far into the game I go. I created a new fresh start with the hope of it being fixed, but no, I still hear DAMN BIRDS SINGING! and it's so annoying. Is there any workaround... -_- ( I am playing latest version of the game, visual novel only mode)

Upload your save here.
I can test it out, to see whether it repeats on my end too (cause so far, noone else has experienced the same issue).

 

[TimHawk]

Rina was one of the Serpents who betrayed Cordia & exiled (that much is pretty given, there's just far too much evidence pointing to that with both what's been shown in the game itself as well as what's been stated in the codex).

The reason how MC survived the original poisoning by Rina, while on one hand I wouldn't dismiss the whole "she controlled the dosage to make him build tolerance", on the other hand it could be that the DeLucas intervened just before the two of them were killed.

Though, for me personally I'd put slightly more weight on the latter and that Rina did want to kill both herself & MC; the Codex for DeLuca Family entry states that "This act of treachery resulted in a catastrophic fire that claimed the life of third Serpent."

From that line, I think the third Serpent is referring to MC's father, but even so MC's father survived, and he somehow faked his own death only reemerging with the rising of the Silverino Family (and yes. Marrying that Don's eldest daughter Serafina with their son Nero being MC's half-brother).

I can guess that when Rina heard about "death" of MC's father, that really put her into a downward spiral into a much darker mentality with "I won't let my enemies get their hands on me and my son." & decided to go out on her own terms.

Given Rina is very much implied to have a pretty rash personality from descriptions by Cordia & Elektra, I wouldn't say such scenario would be a stretch.

You know the game way better than I do, but a murder suicide using poison, is very unrealistic as far as the real world goes, basically unheard of.

They usually use a method that instantly kills, and someone like Rina ? It would've been pop-pop and over with, if she already made the decision to take her own life as well.

And do you really believe, that there is even half a percent of a chance, that she wouldn't have managed to kill herself by now ?

I don't think the Delucas or anyone could've stopped a murder suicide, if that person is commited. Furthermore, since none of the Deluca's even knew that the MC was being made to ingest poison by Rina probably means that you overestimate their actual surveilance on them.

 

[Borik0]

Upload your save here.
I can test it out, to see whether it repeats on my end too (cause so far, noone else has experienced the same issue).

Thanks for replying, here it is, right before the park meeting, the ambience sound just won't go away. Do note tho, that I have walkthrough mod installed, i don't know if that might be the issue...

 

[JJJ84]

You know the game way better than I do, but a murder suicide using poison, is very unrealistic as far as the real world goes, basically unheard of.

They usually use a method that instantly kills, and someone like Rina ? It would've been pop-pop and over with, if she already made the decision to take her own life as well.

And do you really believe, that there is even half a percent of a chance, that she wouldn't have managed to kill herself by now ?

I don't think the Delucas or anyone could've stopped a murder suicide, if that person is commited. Furthermore, since none of the Deluca's even knew that the MC was being made to ingest poison by Rina probably means that you overestimate their actual surveilance on them.

I mean, there have been times (couple of times, actually) where I was wrong in my theory before so how much I know the game is not really that much of a factor in my opinion.
In the end, it all comes down to Hopes, and what he has decided already for Rina's character; while there are certain elements which get changed/altered down the line like character preferences (for e.g. Onorina initially was supposed to be a much smaller character, yet her character's skyrocketing popularity got her more scenes in season 1).
Hence I wouldn't dismiss that possibility that Hopes possibly set it up as something intentional.


Having said that, I think it's a mistake to dismiss the alternative (i.e. she really did mean to kill herself) basing realism as reasoning.
Basically, the whole game leaps the bounds out of the realism with the following; characters, especially high ranks perform prettt much superhuman feats of dodging bullets, bullets changing trajectory, rollerskate dance of death and so much more.
The entire DeLuca universe is filled with exaggeration; and that is part of its charm.
So for me personally I wouldn't use the "that is unlikely because it's not realistic." as reasoning.
Heck, even if I humor for a moment the whole realism reasoning, it's not like there weren't any suicide by poison in history in real world. But that's a whole new can of worms that I won't get into.


Well, none of us know what Rina was going through at that point in the flashback.
While on one hand you could be correct in saying "she could have had all this planned." it can also be correct in saying she just wanted to end her and her son's life due to her dispair.
And yes, she could have just ended her and her son's life by slitting child MC's throat and same to herself. But who knows? Perhaps she wanted to let her son die in a less gruesome way without the blood.
So MC getting the tolerance for the poison could very well have been unintended consequence of her failed suicide attempt.

As for whether I believe she wouldn't have managed to kill herself by now, well....... I believe she could have very much tried, multiple times. However, we must remember Rina after the poison attempt would have been very much weakened; so Cordia and Wilfred could have left 2 or more high ranks (or ones just as capable) to act guards in order to prevent her from killing herself (kinda like orderlies from psyche wards physically restrains and using sedatives to patients who tries to hurt themselves and others).
While Rina at her prime would have handled such guards no problem, her poisoned state it could very much be a different story - and that could very well add to Cordia's guilt storyline, pain at having to see her men restrain her best friend (so not just with Luna and her husband Lucan, but also with Rina when it's about Cordia's guilt).


But in the end, it's all gonna come down to what Hopes decides.
Hence, until that time I'm being open to both scenarios, even though I lean just slightly towards the "she tried to kill herself and MC" one.

 

[JJJ84]

Thanks for replying, here it is, right before the park meeting, the ambience sound just won't go away. Do note tho, that I have walkthrough mod installed, i don't know if that might be the issue...

Okay, the issue was repeated on my end (which is raw game with no mod installed).
I'll notify Hopes know about it.

 

[TimHawk]

I mean, there have been times (couple of times, actually) where I was wrong in my theory before so how much I know the game is not really that much of a factor in my opinion.
In the end, it all comes down to Hopes, and what he has decided already for Rina's character; while there are certain elements which get changed/altered down the line like character preferences (for e.g. Onorina initially was supposed to be a much smaller character, yet her character's skyrocketing popularity got her more scenes in season 1).
Hence I wouldn't dismiss that possibility that Hopes possibly set it up as something intentional.


Having said that, I think it's a mistake to dismiss the alternative (i.e. she really did mean to kill herself) basing realism as reasoning.
Basically, the whole game leaps the bounds out of the realism with the following; characters, especially high ranks perform prettt much superhuman feats of dodging bullets, bullets changing trajectory, rollerskate dance of death and so much more.
The entire DeLuca universe is filled with exaggeration; and that is part of its charm.
So for me personally I wouldn't use the "that is unlikely because it's not realistic." as reasoning.
Heck, even if I humor for a moment the whole realism reasoning, it's not like there weren't any suicide by poison in history in real world. But that's a whole new can of worms that I won't get into.


Well, none of us know what Rina was going through at that point in the flashback.
While on one hand you could be correct in saying "she could have had all this planned." it can also be correct in saying she just wanted to end her and her son's life due to her dispair.
And yes, she could have just ended her and her son's life by slitting child MC's throat and same to herself. But who knows? Perhaps she wanted to let her son die in a less gruesome way without the blood.
So MC getting the tolerance for the poison could very well have been unintended consequence of her failed suicide attempt.

As for whether I believe she wouldn't have managed to kill herself by now, well....... I believe she could have very much tried, multiple times. However, we must remember Rina after the poison attempt would have been very much weakened; so Cordia and Wilfred could have left 2 or more high ranks (or ones just as capable) to act guards in order to prevent her from killing herself (kinda like orderlies from psyche wards physically restrains and using sedatives to patients who tries to hurt themselves and others).
While Rina at her prime would have handled such guards no problem, her poisoned state it could very much be a different story - and that could very well add to Cordia's guilt storyline, pain at having to see her men restrain her best friend (so not just with Luna and her husband Lucan, but also with Rina when it's about Cordia's guilt).


But in the end, it's all gonna come down to what Hopes decides.
Hence, until that time I'm being open to both scenarios, even though I lean just slightly towards the "she tried to kill herself and MC" one.

I agree that the game stretches the realism in a lot of scenes, but ONLY as far as physical abilities go. It's what I love the most about the game, the Characters are unique, there have their own character and they act like it.

Luna is Luna, Gracie is Gracie and even if you would black out the screen and just read the text you could tell who is who.

Rina, the most ruthless, vicious and brutal killer using poison is like a complete 180 of how she is presented to us by others who knew her. It would be out of character or at the very least not consistent with her character and that is something that I have not seen Hope do yet.

Granted people change over time, but not to that extreme.

I often thought about something along the lines of what you said "they won't get my child..." and so on, but then again she agreed to the exile and since her son is a part of her judgement, she must've either been pregnant or she already had the MC. So the only reason, that someone like her would even agree to being exiled and not fight until she is dead, is to save her son in my opinion.

And yea, just as you said, I could be wrong and I often use realism as a way to make sense of what's presented to us and to fill in some blanks. But I find Hope's writing rates highly in the realism department when it comes to characters. Antonio's and Isa's situation, Gracie's emotional distance, Luna's trauma, they are all presented as one consistent arch. Even the minor characters are recognisable by their consistent behaviour.

 

[Jimayo]

Heck, even if I humor for a moment the whole realism reasoning, it's not like there weren't any suicide by poison in history in real world. But that's a whole new can of worms that I won't get into.

No kidding. There's a reason I know it's an extremely painful method.

 

[JJJ84]

Rina, the most ruthless, vicious and brutal killer using poison is like a complete 180 of how she is presented to us by others who knew her. It would be out of character or at the very least not consistent with her character and that is something that I have not seen Hope do yet.

Granted people change over time, but not to that extreme.

Um, I don't agree with that.
You're comparing what she would do to her enemies or total strangers as part of her work as a Serpent, to MC, her son that she likely had been raising for couple of years since birth.

How one acts towards their own family (particularly how a parent towards their child) would be very much different as how they are perceived by friends, or what is known by with their reputation.

Rina choosing to take her own life and her son's life even though still radical (as I said before, shock of hearing MC's father's "death" playing huge factor to it) with poison I'd actually say would be a growth of her characterization; while she could have ended things quickly for herself, if she chose a gentler death to make it easier for her son hence used poison (it's twisted form of love yes, but I guess that's sort of the better outcome one can expect, if outcome was to die either way in a lose-lose situation due to Rina being in despair lol).

So I don't think that's inconsistency, but rather growth to her character (showing she isn't always fixated to her old ways); that is if she does that with Motherhood playing a big factor in it.

 

[Cartageno]

I mean, there have been times (couple of times, actually) where I was wrong in my theory before so how much I know the game is not really that much of a factor in my opinion.

Actually, the correct way of phrasing that is "There have been times where the game was wrong about what happens in the game"

 

[TimHawk]

Um, I don't agree with that.
You're comparing what she would do to her enemies or total strangers as part of her work as a Serpent, to MC, her son that she likely had been raising for couple of years since birth.

How one acts towards their own family (particularly how a parent towards their child) would be very much different as how they are perceived by friends, or what is known by with their reputation.

Rina choosing to take her own life and her son's life even though still radical (as I said before, shock of hearing MC's father's "death" playing huge factor to it) with poison I'd actually say would be a growth of her characterization; while she could have ended things quickly for herself, if she chose a gentler death to make it easier for her son hence used poison (it's twisted form of love yes, but I guess that's sort of the better outcome one can expect, if outcome was to die either way in a lose-lose situation due to Rina being in despair lol).

So I don't think that's inconsistency, but rather growth to her character (showing she isn't always fixated to her old ways); that is if she does that with Motherhood playing a big factor in it.

Oh wow, I can't agree with that.

You think death by asphyxiation is more humane than an insta kill ? I haven't experienced either, but if I had to choose I'd take the insta kill every single time.

It may be easier to take for the person doing the killing, but the victim ?

Rina is not someone who wouldn't know such things, she is a killer, it's literally her area of expertise.

I agree that motherhood can have a huge impact on a person, and that includes Rina, but then we again run into the problem of short changing the dosage. IF she made the decision to commit murder-suicide and in the unlikely event that she has chosen poison of all things, she would be a hundred times more likely to overdose than using not enough. Especially in your scenario where she is doing it out of love, the two things she would avoid at all costs are prolonging it and the leave any chance of having to do it again, because that would turn attempted murder into torture.

 

[shiton32]

Jesus
Now I know why hopes can't post updates regularly. Half the time is spent trying to read and answer these. You're like one of those star wars nerds who knows more about the movies than George Lucas.

Still you're the only person who's keeping this thread alive so carry on

This shit still very funny

 

[JJJ84]

Oh wow, I can't agree with that.

You think death by asphyxiation is more humane than an insta kill ? I haven't experienced either, but if I had to choose I'd take the insta kill every single time.

It may be easier to take for the person doing the killing, but the victim ?

Well, that's where you and I differ.
If I was in an absolute lose-lose situation to be killed be an assassin, where I had to die with no way out of it, then I'd be choosing asphyxiation than say....... getting my throat slit with a knife (given both are extremely painful methods, I'd rather die with my body intact lol).

Rina is not someone who wouldn't know such things, she is a killer, it's literally her area of expertise.

I agree that motherhood can have a huge impact on a person, and that includes Rina, but then we again run into the problem of short changing the dosage. IF she made the decision to commit murder-suicide and in the unlikely event that she has chosen poison of all things, she would be a hundred times more likely to overdose than using not enough. Especially in your scenario where she is doing it out of love, the two things she would avoid at all costs are prolonging it and the leave any chance of having to do it again, because that would turn attempted murder into torture.

You're assessing all that dismissing "Rina didn't mean to kill herself and MC" theory based on one big assumption that Rina didn't use the dosage meant for kill.
And that very short segment of flashback in (or anywhere else in the game) nowhere at all does it indicate she intentionally short changing the dosage.

In fact, what she literally says to child MC when she tells her "Mom, it hurts" is the following:



Dunno about you, but that line pretty much feels to me of words a mother comforting her son, knowing full well she is willingly taking her own son with her to her grave (and she says "soon" too, implying soon enough poison will claim her son's life).

And very shortly after that flashback memory ends.
Given it's a very short flashback, basically anything could have happened to interrupt the process; Cordia, Wilfred, & Rina's ex-fiance could have bursted open the door saving Rina and MC in a nick of time (i.e. outside factor interupting the suicide attempt).

Also, MC in the flashback's stage is a kid.
Instead of Rina literally stabbing or slitting her own son with a knife and his last memory of his mother being that she stabbed him, she very well could have wanted a death for her son with his last memory being that his mom still loved him (to avoid sullying his memory of her).
Hence, the whole comforting she does to MC.
MC as a kid didn't know his mom was trying to kill him, cause it's much less obvious than something like a knife or a gun or anything with quick death etc.


I'm not saying what I'm saying is what really happened, just that it can very much be a possibility and not dismissing the whole possibility cause I find it pretty plausible and wouldn't really contradict Rina's character even if it happened that way.
On the other hand, what you said could possibly be correct and she could have shortened the dosage on purpose (even though as I'm saying before, I prefer the former that Rina actually did mean to kill both her and MC lol); and as I said, I have been wrong before.

It's just that it seems you're dismissing the alternative to your theory too quickly (citing it's not consistent), especially given there's nothing really shown in the game to contradict it until now, nor would it be inconsistent with Rina's behavior as not just a Serpent, but also a mother.

 

[drifter139]

I feel like everyone is forgetting that MC's father is still alive since in the very first mission, if you have high enough perception, you talk to an old man who says he is still in contact with his other kids, aka MC's half-siblings. last time I checked, dead people don't casually call up their kids just to shoot the shit

 

[JJJ84]

I feel like everyone is forgetting that MC's father is still alive since in the very first mission, if you have high enough perception, you talk to an old man who says he is still in contact with his other kids, aka MC's half-siblings. last time I checked, dead people don't casually call up their kids just to shoot the shit

Uh, we didn't forget (and I'm assuming a lot of others didn't either, it's just never came up in the discussion).

I even mentioned about MC's father in one of my previous posts, just couple of posts above lol.