Ren'Py The DeLuca Family [Season 1] [HopesGaming]

[Jimayo]

She could've just tried again, I'm pretty sure that in 16 years she had plenty of time to figure out a humane method if that was her intention.

Do you really think pops let him spend alone time with his mom after she tried to kill him. I think you forget who his best friend is. He may not have been living on his own until he was 16 but I seriously doubt he was spending time alone with his mother after she tried to kill him.

That wouldn't stop her from having 100 people watching them. She controlled the time and location, and with the increased danger that the MC's presence brings to her own daughters, it makes even less sense.

I agree that she wanted the MC and the girls to become close, I think that part is pretty obvious. If I would have to guess, her attempt was probably aimed at bringing a measure of normalcy to her daughters since both of them have a lot of baggage and being with a civilian worked out nicely for Antonio.

There's a world of difference between a brake line being cut/a poisoning attempt and a mercenary company being sent to kill someone. I doubt she thought her daughters were in any danger, nor the mc since only a small circle of trusted people knew where they were, making such subtle attempts on his life, theoretically impossible.

I reiterate: I may be wrong, but, on the other hand, you may be a victim of apopenia. Your mind wants to find patterns and connections where none exist.

Apophenia is the root of conspiracy theorism and yours is a massive conspiracy theory.

 

[Sonico]

That still doesn't make any sense, because it would mean the traitor is part of the kitchen staff, which means really easy to track down and on top he or she has to be rich enough to hire an assassin from the ombra family and like 50 mercenaries.

As shown by the incidents with the mercs and the Carnefice lady used as a cat's-paw by the Ombras, though we don't know how big exactly, whoever wants the MC dead is definitely "crime family"-level rich.

They already got a confidence man of the capo to rat out as shown by the beachhouse incident and the car sabotage demonstrates some degree of forewarning about the MC's coming and goings. So subverting a member of the kitchen staff is within the realm of possibility. The DeLuca's security structure is extensive but is far from unassailable, as shown repeatedly by several examples through the story.

And again it doesn't explain why it was exactly the one poison that Rina used.

It's not like Cordia will announce who will eat with them by name, she will pick up her phone tell them "1 more" and be done with it.

AND how many unexpected visits in the same day would they have for dinner?

Almost anyone else invited to the DeLucas table would be someone either notorious in the crime world or close to the family, ergo, produce gossip by their mere presence - so the absence of "noise" on itself made the chances of "the extra" being the infiltrator's target, aka the MC, high. Maybe a gamble, but the same could be said about the sabotaged car brakes, no?

And about the poison - popular tools in the field. Like with guns, some brands/types of substances will be more popular than others due to a combination of availability, potence, perceived effectiveness and so on. MC's mom was very much a part of this world, so her picking of a poison that is actually an "old standby" among assassins?

And resistance aside, he would have died at that dinner if the family did not rush in a (possibly in-house) doctor. That Gracie knows what mithridatism is doesn't mean many people in the underworld do, on the contrary if Antonio serves as indication.

To be honest, the MC's original poisoning survival back in childhood is the insanely improbable thing when one thinks about it, but then everything in comments and flashbacks seem to indicate his mom was a pale shadow of her own self and quite off her rocker by the time she pulled that stunt.

 

[TimHawk]

Do you really think pops let him spend alone time with his mom after she tried to kill him. I think you forget who his best friend is. He may not have been living on his own until he was 16 but I seriously doubt he was spending time alone with his mother after she tried to kill him.

The MC was just a little child when he was poisoned, and I didn't see any mention that pops would even know about it, hell the Delucas had the MC under observation and they didn't know about it. If Rina wanted him dead, he would be.

There's a world of difference between a brake line being cut/a poisoning attempt and a mercenary company being sent to kill someone. I doubt she thought her daughters were in any danger, nor the mc since only a small circle of trusted people knew where they were, making such subtle attempts on his life, theoretically impossible.

I don't think anything will beat a poisoning attempt at her own dinner table in terms of who knew about it and the length someone will go to get a shot at killing the MC, if he was the target. To me it's a matter of basic ressource allocation, you have hundreds of people under your command, your two daughters plus someone under your protection are in a run down building in another family's territory, who wouldn't have their safety covered ? It's the Mafia world, not a 7/11 managment retreat.

 

[TimHawk]

As shown by the incidents with the mercs and the Carnefice lady used as a cat's-paw by the Ombras, though we don't know how big exactly, whoever wants the MC dead is definitely "crime family"-level rich.

They already got a confidence man of the capo to rat out as shown by the beachhouse incident and the car sabotage demonstrates some degree of forewarning about the MC's coming and goings. So subverting a member of the kitchen staff is within the realm of possibility. The DeLuca's security structure is extensive but is far from unassailable, as shown repeatedly by several examples through the story.



AND how many unexpected visits in the same day would they have for dinner?

Almost anyone else invited to the DeLucas table would be someone either notorious in the crime world or close to the family, ergo, produce gossip by their mere presence - so the absence of "noise" on itself made the chances of "the extra" being the infiltrator's target, aka the MC, high. Maybe a gamble, but the same could be said about the sabotaged car brakes, no?

And about the poison - popular tools in the field. Like with guns, some brands/types of substances will be more popular than others due to a combination of availability, potence, perceived effectiveness and so on. MC's mom was very much a part of this world, so her picking of a poison that is actually an "old standby" among assassins?

And resistance aside, he would have died at that dinner if the family did not rush in a (possibly in-house) doctor. That Gracie knows what mithridatism is doesn't mean many people in the underworld do, on the contrary if Antonio serves as indication.

To be honest, the MC's original poisoning survival back in childhood is the insanely improbable thing when one thinks about it, but then everything in comments and flashbacks seem to indicate his mom was a pale shadow of her own self and quite off her rocker by the time she pulled that stunt.

Yea the improbability is exactly my point. If anyone could guess which poison will be used than it would defeat the whole purpose of using a poison in the first place. That's probably the most confusing part, someone is trying to kill the MC, but they are also not really trying, because given that he drives Gracie to her school friends meet-up or goes to met Jay, if one is motivated enough he would've been dead ten times over.

We would have to know the exact circumstances of the agreement that forced the MC to be where he is, right now a whole lot of things just don't make much sense.

I really hope Season 2 will provide more answers than questions, because we sure have enough of those by now.

 

[Jimayo]

The MC was just a little child when he was poisoned, and I didn't see any mention that pops would even know about it, hell the Delucas had the MC under observation and they didn't know about it. If Rina wanted him dead, he would be.

There's a lot of assuming right there. I like how you assume a child going through that horrific experience doesn't go crying to their best friend who would then immediately tell his father.

I don't think anything will beat a poisoning attempt at her own dinner table in terms of who knew about it and the length someone will go to get a shot at killing the MC, if he was the target. To me it's a matter of basic ressource allocation, you have hundreds of people under your command, your two daughters plus someone under your protection are in a run down building in another family's territory, who wouldn't have their safety covered ? It's the Mafia world, not a 7/11 managment retreat.

You assume an army is the only way to protect people(you assume a lot). A few trusted people, an out of the way location, that can be safer than surrounding someone with a small company(20-30, it's the mafia, not the u.s. military, 100 soldatos would stretch any families resources thin) can be much safer assuming you can trust those few in know, which proved to be false.

 

[TimHawk]

There's a lot of assuming right there. I like how you assume a child going through that horrific experience doesn't go crying to their best friend who would then immediately tell his father.

Everything you or me propose are assumptions, it's what we do to fill in the blanks between stuff we know happened and stuff we don't know. Did he tell Jay, given that the one character trait that the MC is coined with over and over is being closed of ? I don't know, right after he was poisoned it seemed to me that he himself had forgotten about it and what had happened came back to him at that exact moment.

You assume an army is the only way to protect people(you assume a lot). A few trusted people, an out of the way location, that can be safer than surrounding someone with a small company(20-30, it's the mafia, not the u.s. military, 100 soldatos would stretch any families resources thin) can be much safer assuming you can trust those few in know, which proved to be false.

No I said that one would have their safety covered, as in enough people who would spot 30 armed mercenaries walking towards the building.

As for the numbers, I think 100 is on the very low side, from a basic pyramid management perspective. There seem to be a lot of Capo level members and all of them having their own crews would stretch 100 way too thin in my opinion and then you also have the associates at the bottom. I really don't know but it would be an interessting question for Hope.

 

[Jimayo]

Everything you or me propose are assumptions, it's what we do to fill in the blanks between stuff we know happened and stuff we don't know. Did he tell Jay, given that the one character trait that the MC is coined with over and over is being closed of ? I don't know, right after he was poisoned it seemed to me that he himself had forgotten about it and what had happened came back to him at that exact moment.

Yeah, but the difference is you are stretching things to fit the larger conspiracy you want it to be rather than using occam's razor. Let me tell you something, when I was 6ish, and my best friend's dad beat the shit out of him, he came to me to talk about it and I told my parents about it. And what was the outcome? Legally nothing, the cops did shit but clint spent most of his after school time at our place, away from his fucking father. It's the logical outcome if the cops won't do shit(or in the case of criminal families can't be involved).

No I said that one would have their safety covered, as in enough people who would spot 30 armed mercenaries walking towards the building.

As for the numbers, I think 100 is on the very low side, from a basic pyramid management perspective. There seem to be a lot of Capo level members and all of them having their own crews would stretch 100 way too thin in my opinion and then you also have the associates at the bottom. I really don't know but it would be an interessting question for Hope.

Having just replayed the game, there were watchers, they were killed. There was more than 2 guys standing outside the door, there were watchers outside and they were all killed. So what the fuck are you talking about?

And if you think 100 soldatos to watch 3 people is on low side you don't know jack about crime. An entire city branch of a mafia might have 100 people total(and that means not just soldiers, but bosses, dealers, loan sharks, etc.) and that would be a big operation. It's a criminal organisation, not a corporation. People aren't lining up around the block to sign up. It's why many of them work with small street gangs that they have nothing but disdain for. Cause they don't have the numbers by themselves to flood the streets with their products.

 

[TimHawk]

Yeah, but the difference is you are stretching things to fit the larger conspiracy you want it to be rather than using occam's razor. Let me tell you something, when I was 6ish, and my best friend's dad beat the shit out of him, he came to me to talk about it and I told my parents about it. And what was the outcome? Legally nothing, the cops did shit but clint spent most of his after school time at our place, away from his fucking father. It's the logical outcome if the cops won't do shit(or in the case of criminal families can't be involved).

And the most logical outcome is that if Rina wanted the MC dead, he would be - period. I'm sorry for your best friend, I hope he managed to move past it and have a stabil and happy life, things like that are fucked beyond repair.

Having just replayed the game, there were watchers, they were killed. There was more than 2 guys standing outside the door, there were watchers outside and they were all killed. So what the fuck are you talking about?

And if you think 100 soldatos to watch 3 people is on low side you don't know jack about crime. An entire city branch of a mafia might have 100 people total(and that means not just soldiers, but bosses, dealers, loan sharks, etc.) and that would be a big operation. It's a criminal organisation, not a corporation. People aren't lining up around the block to sign up. It's why many of them work with small street gangs that they have nothing but disdain for. Cause they don't have the numbers by themselves to flood the streets with their products.

I do not know anything about crime indeed. But no, I ment 100 Soldatos total, if there are already like 10-15 Capos that we have seen, seems low if they are all running their own crew.

And third times a charm: I mean people out of sight, who would notice a large group of armed people walking towards the building and contacting backup. Not leaving that part to Trino who was standing right in front of the door.

 

[Jimayo]

And the most logical outcome is that if Rina wanted the MC dead, he would be - period.

I don't know why I have to repeat this, but she's still his mom. It's one thing to give them something that makes them go to sleep and never wake up(at least, you would think that, it's actually extremely painful) and another thing entirely to gut them like a fish. You are ingoring the psychological component. If she wanted a random stranger dead it would no doubt be as easy as you say but if you actually care about them and are trying to make their death as easy on them as possible(as poisoning would suggest, and otherwise she would've stabbed in the eye or shot him in the face). Couple that with someone who cares for him and does everything in their power to keep them out of your reach(and given the way Jalen talks about it, it certainly sounds like he spent oodles of time with Jalen, pops and Jalen's sister) then it becomes much more difficult unless you're willing to stab them in eye or shoot them in the face, and she would have if she wanted.

Otherwise she would've needed to be clairvoyant and know that know he needed a tolerance for that poison to survive a decade later, which is really a ridiculous theory.

I'm sorry for your best friend, I hope he managed to move past it and have a stabil and happy life, things like that are fucked beyond repair.

Wouldn't know. They moved to the boonies a few years later and I never saw him again. Which really sucked.

I do not know anything about crime indeed. But no, I ment 100 Soldatos total, if there are already like 10-15 Capos that we have seen, seems low if they are all running their own crew.

And third times a charm: I mean people out of sight, who would notice a large group of armed people walking towards the building and contacting backup. Not leaving that part to Trino who was standing right in front of the door.

How big do you think a crew is? Generally 5-10. Let's say 10 so 150 total. You think earmarking 2/3 of your forces to guard a building for 2+ weeks is reasonable and won't have a severe negative impact on your business? If I was your enemy I would hope you do something that stupid. Now that all your warehouses are down 2 guards at most I would strike them all and wipe out or steal all of your products and cripple your organisation. And that doesn't even consider how much attention 100 soldiers standing around a building would draw, both from their enemies and from law enforcement. Your plan is not realisitically feasible.

 

[minibaer12]

How big do you think a crew is? Generally 5-10. Let's say 10 so 150 total. You think earmarking 2/3 of your forces to guard a building for 2+ weeks is reasonable and won't have a severe negative impact on your business? If I was your enemy I would hope you do something that stupid. Now that all your warehouses are down 2 guards at most I would strike them all and wipe out or steal all of your products and cripple your organisation. And that doesn't even consider how much attention 100 soldiers standing around a building would draw, both from their enemies and from law enforcement. Your plan is not realisitically feasible.

Only one thing remains as a logical conclusion:

an extremely good sniper

 

[Modhunter]

She's still his mother. Putting a knife or a bullet in your kid and watching them bleed out is a hell of a lot harder to do than poisoning.



Or maybe she just wanted the guy who is somehow important to her, yet wants nothing to do with the contract or her family, to become attached to her daughters, via enforced time together, and therefore invested in her families survival and success. And those that want him dead took the opportunity.

I may be wrong, but, on the other hand, you may be a victim of apopenia. Your mind wants to find patterns and connections where none exist.

Another theory: there was no mention of when Rina went round the bend and it is not actually clear that it was not a murder/suicide attempt. They may have both been taken to have a charcoal latte at the hospital at the same time and then separated. could be a red herring or just coincidence. Could be that his survival prompted them to start the evaulation process to begin with.

 

[Borik0]

Guys, I encountered some kind of a bug? after meeting with protagonists friend in the park, the sound ambience of the park, including birds singing, just won't stop, no matter how far into the game I go. I created a new fresh start with the hope of it being fixed, but no, I still hear DAMN BIRDS SINGING! and it's so annoying. Is there any workaround... -_- ( I am playing latest version of the game, visual novel only mode)

 

[TimHawk]

I don't know why I have to repeat this, but she's still his mom. It's one thing to give them something that makes them go to sleep and never wake up(at least, you would think that, it's actually extremely painful) and another thing entirely to gut them like a fish. You are ingoring the psychological component. If she wanted a random stranger dead it would no doubt be as easy as you say but if you actually care about them and are trying to make their death as easy on them as possible(as poisoning would suggest, and otherwise she would've stabbed in the eye or shot him in the face). Couple that with someone who cares for him and does everything in their power to keep them out of your reach(and given the way Jalen talks about it, it certainly sounds like he spent oodles of time with Jalen, pops and Jalen's sister) then it becomes much more difficult unless you're willing to stab them in eye or shoot them in the face, and she would have if she wanted.

Otherwise she would've needed to be clairvoyant and know that know he needed a tolerance for that poison to survive a decade later, which is really a ridiculous theory.

Okay human psychology, other than crime, that is something I know a lot about, so here is my take.

If a mother made the decision to take her childs life, that decision, if the attempt failed, becomes an all encompassing need to justify the first attempt. It is virtually impossible to stop on ones own accord, because it would be at the very core of that person. And for someone like Rina who has been around death for such a long time and who earned the nickname "red" because she was the most ruthless and brutal of the serpents, once she would have made that decision, knowing all the ins and outs, she would not reverse that decision. A murder-suicide resolution would be infinitely more likely than she just saying "oh well, didn't work, so be it." She would probably alter her method, a srynge while the MC is sleeping or something, but I have zero doubt, that if Rina wanted to kill the MC to spare him, he would be dead now, that's just not a decision you back down from.

Another huge point is, that if the decision is made, you don't short change on dosage, the opposite is true, you overdose by several factors, as an example: if 2 kills, they go for 6 or more.

Wouldn't know. They moved to the boonies a few years later and I never saw him again. Which really sucked.

That really does suck, but life is one big circle, maybe you two run into eachother again.

How big do you think a crew is? Generally 5-10. Let's say 10 so 150 total. You think earmarking 2/3 of your forces to guard a building for 2+ weeks is reasonable and won't have a severe negative impact on your business? If I was your enemy I would hope you do something that stupid. Now that all your warehouses are down 2 guards at most I would strike them all and wipe out or steal all of your products and cripple your organisation. And that doesn't even consider how much attention 100 soldiers standing around a building would draw, both from their enemies and from law enforcement. Your plan is not realisitically feasible.

We are really not getting that one right. 2-3 to cover all entry points, out of sight. The 100 is on me, I ment that Cordia could sent a hundred, and even that was just a random number, if a call for backup would happen. Still totally on me, you just replied to what I said.

As to the total number of the Deluca family, I really don't know, it would depend in large parts on how much of the Family we have already seen.

 

[JJJ84]

Rina was one of the Serpents who betrayed Cordia & exiled (that much is pretty given, there's just far too much evidence pointing to that with both what's been shown in the game itself as well as what's been stated in the codex).

The reason how MC survived the original poisoning by Rina, while on one hand I wouldn't dismiss the whole "she controlled the dosage to make him build tolerance", on the other hand it could be that the DeLucas intervened just before the two of them were killed.

Though, for me personally I'd put slightly more weight on the latter and that Rina did want to kill both herself & MC; the Codex for DeLuca Family entry states that "This act of treachery resulted in a catastrophic fire that claimed the life of third Serpent."

From that line, I think the third Serpent is referring to MC's father, but even so MC's father survived, and he somehow faked his own death only reemerging with the rising of the Silverino Family (and yes. Marrying that Don's eldest daughter Serafina with their son Nero being MC's half-brother).

I can guess that when Rina heard about "death" of MC's father, that really put her into a downward spiral into a much darker mentality with "I won't let my enemies get their hands on me and my son." & decided to go out on her own terms.

Given Rina is very much implied to have a pretty rash personality from descriptions by Cordia & Elektra, I wouldn't say such scenario would be a stretch.

 

[JJJ84]

Guys, I encountered some kind of a bug? after meeting with protagonists friend in the park, the sound ambience of the park, including birds singing, just won't stop, no matter how far into the game I go. I created a new fresh start with the hope of it being fixed, but no, I still hear DAMN BIRDS SINGING! and it's so annoying. Is there any workaround... -_- ( I am playing latest version of the game, visual novel only mode)

Upload your save here.
I can test it out, to see whether it repeats on my end too (cause so far, noone else has experienced the same issue).

 

[TimHawk]

Rina was one of the Serpents who betrayed Cordia & exiled (that much is pretty given, there's just far too much evidence pointing to that with both what's been shown in the game itself as well as what's been stated in the codex).

The reason how MC survived the original poisoning by Rina, while on one hand I wouldn't dismiss the whole "she controlled the dosage to make him build tolerance", on the other hand it could be that the DeLucas intervened just before the two of them were killed.

Though, for me personally I'd put slightly more weight on the latter and that Rina did want to kill both herself & MC; the Codex for DeLuca Family entry states that "This act of treachery resulted in a catastrophic fire that claimed the life of third Serpent."

From that line, I think the third Serpent is referring to MC's father, but even so MC's father survived, and he somehow faked his own death only reemerging with the rising of the Silverino Family (and yes. Marrying that Don's eldest daughter Serafina with their son Nero being MC's half-brother).

I can guess that when Rina heard about "death" of MC's father, that really put her into a downward spiral into a much darker mentality with "I won't let my enemies get their hands on me and my son." & decided to go out on her own terms.

Given Rina is very much implied to have a pretty rash personality from descriptions by Cordia & Elektra, I wouldn't say such scenario would be a stretch.

You know the game way better than I do, but a murder suicide using poison, is very unrealistic as far as the real world goes, basically unheard of.

They usually use a method that instantly kills, and someone like Rina ? It would've been pop-pop and over with, if she already made the decision to take her own life as well.

And do you really believe, that there is even half a percent of a chance, that she wouldn't have managed to kill herself by now ?

I don't think the Delucas or anyone could've stopped a murder suicide, if that person is commited. Furthermore, since none of the Deluca's even knew that the MC was being made to ingest poison by Rina probably means that you overestimate their actual surveilance on them.

 

[Borik0]

Upload your save here.
I can test it out, to see whether it repeats on my end too (cause so far, noone else has experienced the same issue).

Thanks for replying, here it is, right before the park meeting, the ambience sound just won't go away. Do note tho, that I have walkthrough mod installed, i don't know if that might be the issue...

 

[JJJ84]

You know the game way better than I do, but a murder suicide using poison, is very unrealistic as far as the real world goes, basically unheard of.

They usually use a method that instantly kills, and someone like Rina ? It would've been pop-pop and over with, if she already made the decision to take her own life as well.

And do you really believe, that there is even half a percent of a chance, that she wouldn't have managed to kill herself by now ?

I don't think the Delucas or anyone could've stopped a murder suicide, if that person is commited. Furthermore, since none of the Deluca's even knew that the MC was being made to ingest poison by Rina probably means that you overestimate their actual surveilance on them.

I mean, there have been times (couple of times, actually) where I was wrong in my theory before so how much I know the game is not really that much of a factor in my opinion.
In the end, it all comes down to Hopes, and what he has decided already for Rina's character; while there are certain elements which get changed/altered down the line like character preferences (for e.g. Onorina initially was supposed to be a much smaller character, yet her character's skyrocketing popularity got her more scenes in season 1).
Hence I wouldn't dismiss that possibility that Hopes possibly set it up as something intentional.


Having said that, I think it's a mistake to dismiss the alternative (i.e. she really did mean to kill herself) basing realism as reasoning.
Basically, the whole game leaps the bounds out of the realism with the following; characters, especially high ranks perform prettt much superhuman feats of dodging bullets, bullets changing trajectory, rollerskate dance of death and so much more.
The entire DeLuca universe is filled with exaggeration; and that is part of its charm.
So for me personally I wouldn't use the "that is unlikely because it's not realistic." as reasoning.
Heck, even if I humor for a moment the whole realism reasoning, it's not like there weren't any suicide by poison in history in real world. But that's a whole new can of worms that I won't get into.


Well, none of us know what Rina was going through at that point in the flashback.
While on one hand you could be correct in saying "she could have had all this planned." it can also be correct in saying she just wanted to end her and her son's life due to her dispair.
And yes, she could have just ended her and her son's life by slitting child MC's throat and same to herself. But who knows? Perhaps she wanted to let her son die in a less gruesome way without the blood.
So MC getting the tolerance for the poison could very well have been unintended consequence of her failed suicide attempt.

As for whether I believe she wouldn't have managed to kill herself by now, well....... I believe she could have very much tried, multiple times. However, we must remember Rina after the poison attempt would have been very much weakened; so Cordia and Wilfred could have left 2 or more high ranks (or ones just as capable) to act guards in order to prevent her from killing herself (kinda like orderlies from psyche wards physically restrains and using sedatives to patients who tries to hurt themselves and others).
While Rina at her prime would have handled such guards no problem, her poisoned state it could very much be a different story - and that could very well add to Cordia's guilt storyline, pain at having to see her men restrain her best friend (so not just with Luna and her husband Lucan, but also with Rina when it's about Cordia's guilt).


But in the end, it's all gonna come down to what Hopes decides.
Hence, until that time I'm being open to both scenarios, even though I lean just slightly towards the "she tried to kill herself and MC" one.

 

[JJJ84]

Thanks for replying, here it is, right before the park meeting, the ambience sound just won't go away. Do note tho, that I have walkthrough mod installed, i don't know if that might be the issue...

Okay, the issue was repeated on my end (which is raw game with no mod installed).
I'll notify Hopes know about it.

 

[TimHawk]

I mean, there have been times (couple of times, actually) where I was wrong in my theory before so how much I know the game is not really that much of a factor in my opinion.
In the end, it all comes down to Hopes, and what he has decided already for Rina's character; while there are certain elements which get changed/altered down the line like character preferences (for e.g. Onorina initially was supposed to be a much smaller character, yet her character's skyrocketing popularity got her more scenes in season 1).
Hence I wouldn't dismiss that possibility that Hopes possibly set it up as something intentional.


Having said that, I think it's a mistake to dismiss the alternative (i.e. she really did mean to kill herself) basing realism as reasoning.
Basically, the whole game leaps the bounds out of the realism with the following; characters, especially high ranks perform prettt much superhuman feats of dodging bullets, bullets changing trajectory, rollerskate dance of death and so much more.
The entire DeLuca universe is filled with exaggeration; and that is part of its charm.
So for me personally I wouldn't use the "that is unlikely because it's not realistic." as reasoning.
Heck, even if I humor for a moment the whole realism reasoning, it's not like there weren't any suicide by poison in history in real world. But that's a whole new can of worms that I won't get into.


Well, none of us know what Rina was going through at that point in the flashback.
While on one hand you could be correct in saying "she could have had all this planned." it can also be correct in saying she just wanted to end her and her son's life due to her dispair.
And yes, she could have just ended her and her son's life by slitting child MC's throat and same to herself. But who knows? Perhaps she wanted to let her son die in a less gruesome way without the blood.
So MC getting the tolerance for the poison could very well have been unintended consequence of her failed suicide attempt.

As for whether I believe she wouldn't have managed to kill herself by now, well....... I believe she could have very much tried, multiple times. However, we must remember Rina after the poison attempt would have been very much weakened; so Cordia and Wilfred could have left 2 or more high ranks (or ones just as capable) to act guards in order to prevent her from killing herself (kinda like orderlies from psyche wards physically restrains and using sedatives to patients who tries to hurt themselves and others).
While Rina at her prime would have handled such guards no problem, her poisoned state it could very much be a different story - and that could very well add to Cordia's guilt storyline, pain at having to see her men restrain her best friend (so not just with Luna and her husband Lucan, but also with Rina when it's about Cordia's guilt).


But in the end, it's all gonna come down to what Hopes decides.
Hence, until that time I'm being open to both scenarios, even though I lean just slightly towards the "she tried to kill herself and MC" one.

I agree that the game stretches the realism in a lot of scenes, but ONLY as far as physical abilities go. It's what I love the most about the game, the Characters are unique, there have their own character and they act like it.

Luna is Luna, Gracie is Gracie and even if you would black out the screen and just read the text you could tell who is who.

Rina, the most ruthless, vicious and brutal killer using poison is like a complete 180 of how she is presented to us by others who knew her. It would be out of character or at the very least not consistent with her character and that is something that I have not seen Hope do yet.

Granted people change over time, but not to that extreme.

I often thought about something along the lines of what you said "they won't get my child..." and so on, but then again she agreed to the exile and since her son is a part of her judgement, she must've either been pregnant or she already had the MC. So the only reason, that someone like her would even agree to being exiled and not fight until she is dead, is to save her son in my opinion.

And yea, just as you said, I could be wrong and I often use realism as a way to make sense of what's presented to us and to fill in some blanks. But I find Hope's writing rates highly in the realism department when it comes to characters. Antonio's and Isa's situation, Gracie's emotional distance, Luna's trauma, they are all presented as one consistent arch. Even the minor characters are recognisable by their consistent behaviour.