Ren'Py The DeLuca Family [Season 1] [HopesGaming]

[JJJ84]

Rina, the most ruthless, vicious and brutal killer using poison is like a complete 180 of how she is presented to us by others who knew her. It would be out of character or at the very least not consistent with her character and that is something that I have not seen Hope do yet.

Granted people change over time, but not to that extreme.

Um, I don't agree with that.
You're comparing what she would do to her enemies or total strangers as part of her work as a Serpent, to MC, her son that she likely had been raising for couple of years since birth.

How one acts towards their own family (particularly how a parent towards their child) would be very much different as how they are perceived by friends, or what is known by with their reputation.

Rina choosing to take her own life and her son's life even though still radical (as I said before, shock of hearing MC's father's "death" playing huge factor to it) with poison I'd actually say would be a growth of her characterization; while she could have ended things quickly for herself, if she chose a gentler death to make it easier for her son hence used poison (it's twisted form of love yes, but I guess that's sort of the better outcome one can expect, if outcome was to die either way in a lose-lose situation due to Rina being in despair lol).

So I don't think that's inconsistency, but rather growth to her character (showing she isn't always fixated to her old ways); that is if she does that with Motherhood playing a big factor in it.

 

[Cartageno]

I mean, there have been times (couple of times, actually) where I was wrong in my theory before so how much I know the game is not really that much of a factor in my opinion.

Actually, the correct way of phrasing that is "There have been times where the game was wrong about what happens in the game"

 

[TimHawk]

Um, I don't agree with that.
You're comparing what she would do to her enemies or total strangers as part of her work as a Serpent, to MC, her son that she likely had been raising for couple of years since birth.

How one acts towards their own family (particularly how a parent towards their child) would be very much different as how they are perceived by friends, or what is known by with their reputation.

Rina choosing to take her own life and her son's life even though still radical (as I said before, shock of hearing MC's father's "death" playing huge factor to it) with poison I'd actually say would be a growth of her characterization; while she could have ended things quickly for herself, if she chose a gentler death to make it easier for her son hence used poison (it's twisted form of love yes, but I guess that's sort of the better outcome one can expect, if outcome was to die either way in a lose-lose situation due to Rina being in despair lol).

So I don't think that's inconsistency, but rather growth to her character (showing she isn't always fixated to her old ways); that is if she does that with Motherhood playing a big factor in it.

Oh wow, I can't agree with that.

You think death by asphyxiation is more humane than an insta kill ? I haven't experienced either, but if I had to choose I'd take the insta kill every single time.

It may be easier to take for the person doing the killing, but the victim ?

Rina is not someone who wouldn't know such things, she is a killer, it's literally her area of expertise.

I agree that motherhood can have a huge impact on a person, and that includes Rina, but then we again run into the problem of short changing the dosage. IF she made the decision to commit murder-suicide and in the unlikely event that she has chosen poison of all things, she would be a hundred times more likely to overdose than using not enough. Especially in your scenario where she is doing it out of love, the two things she would avoid at all costs are prolonging it and the leave any chance of having to do it again, because that would turn attempted murder into torture.

 

[shiton32]

Jesus
Now I know why hopes can't post updates regularly. Half the time is spent trying to read and answer these. You're like one of those star wars nerds who knows more about the movies than George Lucas.

Still you're the only person who's keeping this thread alive so carry on

This shit still very funny

 

[JJJ84]

Oh wow, I can't agree with that.

You think death by asphyxiation is more humane than an insta kill ? I haven't experienced either, but if I had to choose I'd take the insta kill every single time.

It may be easier to take for the person doing the killing, but the victim ?

Well, that's where you and I differ.
If I was in an absolute lose-lose situation to be killed be an assassin, where I had to die with no way out of it, then I'd be choosing asphyxiation than say....... getting my throat slit with a knife (given both are extremely painful methods, I'd rather die with my body intact lol).

Rina is not someone who wouldn't know such things, she is a killer, it's literally her area of expertise.

I agree that motherhood can have a huge impact on a person, and that includes Rina, but then we again run into the problem of short changing the dosage. IF she made the decision to commit murder-suicide and in the unlikely event that she has chosen poison of all things, she would be a hundred times more likely to overdose than using not enough. Especially in your scenario where she is doing it out of love, the two things she would avoid at all costs are prolonging it and the leave any chance of having to do it again, because that would turn attempted murder into torture.

You're assessing all that dismissing "Rina didn't mean to kill herself and MC" theory based on one big assumption that Rina didn't use the dosage meant for kill.
And that very short segment of flashback in (or anywhere else in the game) nowhere at all does it indicate she intentionally short changing the dosage.

In fact, what she literally says to child MC when she tells her "Mom, it hurts" is the following:



Dunno about you, but that line pretty much feels to me of words a mother comforting her son, knowing full well she is willingly taking her own son with her to her grave (and she says "soon" too, implying soon enough poison will claim her son's life).

And very shortly after that flashback memory ends.
Given it's a very short flashback, basically anything could have happened to interrupt the process; Cordia, Wilfred, & Rina's ex-fiance could have bursted open the door saving Rina and MC in a nick of time (i.e. outside factor interupting the suicide attempt).

Also, MC in the flashback's stage is a kid.
Instead of Rina literally stabbing or slitting her own son with a knife and his last memory of his mother being that she stabbed him, she very well could have wanted a death for her son with his last memory being that his mom still loved him (to avoid sullying his memory of her).
Hence, the whole comforting she does to MC.
MC as a kid didn't know his mom was trying to kill him, cause it's much less obvious than something like a knife or a gun or anything with quick death etc.


I'm not saying what I'm saying is what really happened, just that it can very much be a possibility and not dismissing the whole possibility cause I find it pretty plausible and wouldn't really contradict Rina's character even if it happened that way.
On the other hand, what you said could possibly be correct and she could have shortened the dosage on purpose (even though as I'm saying before, I prefer the former that Rina actually did mean to kill both her and MC lol); and as I said, I have been wrong before.

It's just that it seems you're dismissing the alternative to your theory too quickly (citing it's not consistent), especially given there's nothing really shown in the game to contradict it until now, nor would it be inconsistent with Rina's behavior as not just a Serpent, but also a mother.

 

[drifter139]

I feel like everyone is forgetting that MC's father is still alive since in the very first mission, if you have high enough perception, you talk to an old man who says he is still in contact with his other kids, aka MC's half-siblings. last time I checked, dead people don't casually call up their kids just to shoot the shit

 

[JJJ84]

I feel like everyone is forgetting that MC's father is still alive since in the very first mission, if you have high enough perception, you talk to an old man who says he is still in contact with his other kids, aka MC's half-siblings. last time I checked, dead people don't casually call up their kids just to shoot the shit

Uh, we didn't forget (and I'm assuming a lot of others didn't either, it's just never came up in the discussion).

I even mentioned about MC's father in one of my previous posts, just couple of posts above lol.

 

[TimHawk]

Well, that's where you and I differ.
If I was in an absolute lose-lose situation to be killed be an assassin, where I had to die with no way out of it, then I'd be choosing asphyxiation than say....... getting my throat slit with a knife (given both are extremely painful methods, I'd rather die with my body intact lol).


You're assessing all that dismissing "Rina didn't mean to kill herself and MC" theory based on one big assumption that Rina didn't use the dosage meant for kill.
And that very short segment of flashback in (or anywhere else in the game) nowhere at all does it indicate she intentionally short changing the dosage.

In fact, what she literally says to child MC when she tells her "Mom, it hurts" is the following:

View attachment 3668737

Dunno about you, but that line pretty much feels to me of words a mother comforting her son, knowing full well she is willingly taking her own son with her to her grave (and she says "soon" too, implying soon enough poison will claim her son's life).

And very shortly after that flashback memory ends.
Given it's a very short flashback, basically anything could have happened to interrupt the process; Cordia, Wilfred, & Rina's ex-fiance could have bursted open the door saving Rina and MC in a nick of time (i.e. outside factor interupting the suicide attempt).

Also, MC in the flashback's stage is a kid.
Instead of Rina literally stabbing or slitting her own son with a knife and his last memory of his mother being that she stabbed him, she very well could have wanted a death for her son with his last memory being that his mom still loved him (to avoid sullying his memory of her).
Hence, the whole comforting she does to MC.
MC as a kid didn't know his mom was trying to kill him, cause it's much less obvious than something like a knife or a gun or anything with quick death etc.


I'm not saying what I'm saying is what really happened, just that it can very much be a possibility and not dismissing the whole possibility cause I find it pretty plausible and wouldn't really contradict Rina's character even if it happened that way.
On the other hand, what you said could possibly be correct and she could have shortened the dosage on purpose (even though as I'm saying before, I prefer the former that Rina actually did mean to kill both her and MC lol); and as I said, I have been wrong before.

It's just that it seems you're dismissing the alternative to your theory too quickly (citing it's not consistent), especially given there's nothing really shown in the game to contradict it until now, nor would it be inconsistent with Rina's behavior as not just a Serpent, but also a mother.

I wouldn't even think of slitting someones throat in that scenario, bullet to the brain and game over and in terms of doing it out of love, my first idea would be wait until the child is asleep and then inject something.

And yes the screeny you uploaded was very powerfull and a great scene, but it doesn't give us any insight on her intent.

In both cases, loss of consciousness as an effect of an attempted immunisation or death by poison, "it will be over soon" would apply.

And I just can't picture your version in my head with the outcome that we got.

Rina wants to kill her child and uses poison. MC passes out, she checks his heartbeat, it keeps doing, she does nothing and lets him wake up again...like who would do that?

He is already unconscious and doesn't feel any pain anymore, end it right there, what mother would take the chance of it all being for nothing at that point ?

I also wonder, where her determination to save her son went in all the years after, from all accounts we have: the MC hates her, Jay calls her a pathetic woman, where did her love go ? Even if the outcome is predetermined, isn't it the most human thing to make the most out of the time you do have and make up for everything you messed up ?

I share the believe that the MC means something to Rina, but unlike you, from everything we do know, it always seemed to me that her decision was to give the MC someone to hate. Someone to focus his anger and frustration over the injustice of having to pay for someone elses mistakes on and she was the best candidate.

When people hate aimlessly or are bitter they usually have a harder time getting over something and can spiral out of control. The MC is indifferent to his father and hates his mother, and I like to think that that's exactly how she intented it to be.

Like you said, only Hope know all the answers, which reminds me, you are in the know, did Hope ever mention if Rina will have a bigger part in Season 2 or is that more of a Season 3 story, with Season 2 focusing on the MC's growth ?

 

[Sonico]

Yea the improbability is exactly my point. If anyone could guess which poison will be used than it would defeat the whole purpose of using a poison in the first place.

On the MC's childhood poisoning there's much we don't know about - it could be a failed attempt at "mutual" suicide on the part of a woman long past her better, saner days. It could be one of many "exercises" on crazy mama's part to "toughen up" her boy for the harsh times in his future.

It could be a combination of both even - that meeting with Jalen got me thinking "Rina the mom" had become a quite pathetic shadow of the super-scary badass that once belonged in the original 4 Serpents. Kind of like Nazazi Ombra in the begining of "Cogwheel", except much worse and with no Siobhan to pull one away from the ghosts within one's head.

That's probably the most confusing part, someone is trying to kill the MC, but they are also not really trying, because given that he drives Gracie to her school friends meet-up or goes to met Jay, if one is motivated enough he would've been dead ten times over.

OR they stopped trying, because all the four attempts on his life had backfired spectacularly, to the point of other families getting involved with putting a clampdown on the whole mess? That we don't see bodyguards when the trio went to meet Gracie's schoolmate & friends doesn't mean the were none.

The beachhouse mess in particular lost them a bunch of people and (at least) one very well-placed mole within the DeLuca household, what possibly hurts more than the loss of the 30+ expendables for someone who values information & secrecy.
Pulling back to avoid showing one's hand before you lose more than you can afford? Seems feasible.

The lull of calm before the storm, while the unseen (to us) threat recoups losses, counts chips and comes back full auto from another direction.

We would have to know the exact circumstances of the agreement that forced the MC to be where he is, right now a whole lot of things just don't make much sense.

I really hope Season 2 will provide more answers than questions, because we sure have enough of those by now.

Spoiler: About answers and questions....

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

But yeah, there's a bunch of things here and there that still refuse to give us anything like a halfway discernible image - and i did not even comment on Luna's "Mysterious Six", who might be the same as the rumoured "Shadow Alliance" or something else entirely.

(Also, Gaia - if all kids in the group cells were children of important families, why was the supposed "daughter of nobodies" included? Ok, Luna is not exactly a super-reliable narrator or master detective, but that little detail keeps nagging me)

$#it, could she be a Carnefice or Bonagura remnant - that would definitely explain the crazy fighting skills for her age....

 

[Borik0]

Okay, the issue was repeated on my end (which is raw game with no mod installed).
I'll notify Hopes know about it.

I mean, you could just turn off the music and it will go away but that's not an option for me, because you just lose immersion that way... but sometimes I am forced to mute it cuz it's just funny when there's a serious, intense scene and you hear birds singing in the background I hope it gets fixed!

 

[Borik0]

Okay, the issue was repeated on my end (which is raw game with no mod installed).
I'll notify Hopes know about it.

It finally went away, in jewelry shop, when you stay alone with Isabel... So the bug starts at the park meeting with a friend, and ends in jewelry shop. Hope it helps to fix it!

 

[JJJ84]

MC passes out, she checks his heartbeat, it keeps doing, she does nothing and lets him wake up again...like who would do that?

He is already unconscious and doesn't feel any pain anymore, end it right there, what mother would take the chance of it all being for nothing at that point ?

Uh, I never said anything about Rina checking MC's heartbeat and lets him wake up again.
That's what you wrote (for some reason that I don't know lol).

What I stated was Cordia, Wilfred and perhaps even "Serpent" coming just in time to save MC in the nick of time.

The flashback ends while child MC was still conscious.
So as I said before, Cordia, Wilfred, and "Serpent" saving MC I feel could indeed be a pretty big possibility.
Also, to add further, when MC first meets "Serpent" he thinks there's some real familarity to "Serpent" a very soothing voice.

My theory?

Rina found out news about MC's father's "death", and the shock of it sent her over the edge to decide to kill both herself and her son.
She uses the poison gas to do the deed, and just before it reaches the critical point, "Serpent" (her ex-fiance) busts open the door and saves her and MC.
He saves MC telling him something along the lines like "It's gonna be okay, kid." (thus MC at present remembering "Serpent"'s voice) while Rina is restrained by the soon arriving DeLuca soldiers.

Soon afterwards, MC's custody is taken away from Rina (who, both Cordia and Wilfred see as unfit to take care of MC, given what she tried to do) with Rina being put on exile, and MC gets put into the system (foster care I guess? Game never states it, just shows child MC getting bullied. And I'm guessing that scene is after the whole poison gas suicide attempt scene) while "Serpent" watches these unfold with sadness.

MC as he gets older, goes to school until he meets Jalen and then ends up staying with Kaskars for a while at their home.

Adding to that, from what I can tell, didn't Gildart pretty much say in the Ombra mission, both of MC's parents are considered to be ordinary in terms of their intelligence?
Why would she control her dosage? To prepare MC for a future poisoning?
I mean there would be many dangers in the mafia world in which MC could be killed, so why just give him tolerance to that?

As I repeat, not saying "it can't happen", but for me I feel Rina being pushed over the edge with her husband's "death" & deciding to end it all just fits better than Rina planning MC for tolerance in poisoning for some unknown enemy.

If could very well be the opposite, that someone who knows of MC's past (of getting almost killed by his mother from poison gas) tried to test just how much of a tolerance he has to poison.


Plus, I feel Rina actually seeking forgiveness from MC regretting her past actions and reconciling with him has far more of an impact if she actually did tried to kill him & genuinely seeking forgiveness (a powerful scene I'd say), than the whole "Forgive me but you gotta understand I did it for your own good." which sort of creates an excuse on her end dilluting the whole matter.
That's my take on it anyway.

did Hope ever mention if Rina will have a bigger part in Season 2 or is that more of a Season 3 story, with Season 2 focusing on the MC's growth ?

Only thing he said was that there will be an event in season 2 of MC and Rina's reunion (not surprised, given she's unwell).
But I don't think he said anything regarding whether she will have bigger part.
Perhaps she will, or perhaps she won't.
Who knows.

It finally went away, in jewelry shop, when you stay alone with Isabel... So the bug starts at the park meeting with a friend, and ends in jewelry shop. Hope it helps to fix it!

Okay, I will let him know.

 

[TimHawk]

Only thing he said was that there will be an event in season 2 of MC and Rina's reunion (not surprised, given she's unwell).
But I don't think he said anything regarding whether she will have bigger part.
Perhaps she will, or perhaps she won't.
Who knows.

Thanks for the info, that's at least something to look forward to. It'll be the first time the two meet after the MC knows that he has to make up for her mess. It's bound to be epic and a huge part of the story moving forward.

 

[Sonico]

Anyone else hates the whole you need to bring a gun requirement for the "Burn the Ombras" mission?
Can't avoid the feeling things would have been much smoother without being gimped 3 stealth levels from replacing the hardened gloves with it.

Also, Biondo is the second coming of Johny Bravo.

Wild theory - Joey is the eldest son of Erardo Profaci & Lumina DeLuca. He retaliated against the DeLucas because he forgot his son was alive and their hostage. And later became their soldato because the DeLucas themselves forgot he was supposed to be a hostage after Profaci's attacks.

 

[Hectorinn]

Hello, I have a question, when I enter 'events' again, playing just by clicking on the rooms and visual novel, this appears to me (playing on Android) has anyone else had this error appear?

You must be registered to see the links

 

[camube]

i just read the codex, almost all of them, and damn it was really interesting

 

[JBooze]

As you can see, the icons of Luna and Gracie appear in the living room after the jewellery shop visit quest but didn't leave after that. Is there a fix?

 

[burbero]

So many questions but no answers. We need updates for answers. Didn't Hope say she's working on the game full time now? But we haven't heard anything since March. Did she say anything on Discord?

 

[Cartageno]

But we haven't heard anything since March.

Uhm ... you haven't really been following this thread or searched for posts by Hopes, have you?

 

[JJJ84]

As you can see, the icons of Luna and Gracie appear in the living room after the jewellery shop visit quest but didn't leave after that. Is there a fix?
View attachment 3670634

If you encounter any bugs or issues, join Hopes' discord server (link is in the OP) and let him (or the coder) know in the bug-reporting channel of the server.