- Dec 4, 2017
- 3,918
- 10,184
Just play it and give us your opinion afterwards, just don't keep your expections too high after a really good start.
- Thread starter 7767
- Start date
- Feb 20, 2021
- 4,092
- 6,198
god ....
what a stupid plot ...
suddenly the mc acts like a little-very stupid -child
really - "an angel goes to a therapist.... "
sounds like a start of a low-blow joke
im eXiteD to see hows that college part goes
..not
atleast you can play the asshole sometimes - thats a plus
but why is raphael giving commands
edit :
fazit
well...
if the dev drops the college and psychotherapist stuff - its maybe going to be a good game (with tendency to very good)
what a stupid plot ...
suddenly the mc acts like a little-very stupid -child
really - "an angel goes to a therapist.... "
sounds like a start of a low-blow joke
im eXiteD to see hows that college part goes
..notatleast you can play the asshole sometimes - thats a plus
but why is raphael giving commands
edit :
fazit
well...
if the dev drops the college and psychotherapist stuff - its maybe going to be a good game (with tendency to very good)
Last edited:
- Feb 20, 2021
- 4,092
- 6,198
there´s a error in the script White_Bear
You don't have permission to view the spoiler content.
Log in or register now.
Last edited:
- Dec 29, 2018
- 447
- 2,675
He did manage to stick a dagger in her ribs, so it's not like she walked away unscathed. And two of his alter egos were trying to hold him back during his hallucination, so maybe that was working against him too? The fact that Azel was able to beat a guy flailing around in what was basically a fever-dream might not necessarily mean that she would win in a real fight.
I'm guessing the whole maintain the balance thing is more about keeping the peace rather than any sort of actual power struggle. If humans are valuable to both Heaven and Hell, and any war between the two would spill out into the mortal world and cause complete carnage and chaos, it would mean that angels would win a pyrrhic victory which doesn't do them any good in the long run.
Honestly I'm happy I read the comments. The game looked amazing, happy I was spared the disapointment.
- Aug 30, 2019
- 955
- 4,021
Well that's the point of WANTING to keep the balance. Sure the angels could annihilate the demons, doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure that out. But the fact of the matter is that the supernatural society is at a heavy breaking point right now.
You got the Goddess for the first time since the dawn of time probably, sleeping on the couch by choice forcing half the angels to split from their original thought to be undying devotion, and better yet, the couch is Earth; filled with very fragile humans. Taking all of that into account the MC (who's also an angel) decides to murder the entirety of a race's capable leaders in their own territory, and is now being protected with no consequences on you guessed it; Earth.
Also considering the fact that the MC hasn't really fought at all in his time of existence (i.e being tortured that entire time) while Azel has probably had the chance to train with her siblings and the MC never had any power in the first place to hone, I'd be say he's doing a fantastic job of at least being able to stab her.
- Sep 18, 2017
- 3,890
- 7,948
for how much the emphasis was made/done on hell forces ... after the fight with Azel.. MC seems more like a little bitch than anything...
also going from that fight ... how in the fuck is he supposed to defeat the father of all angels?
asking him nicely to die?
if he could barely hold on his own against 1 angel, be it archangel of death or whomever then I don't see how he is going to fight against his father who is said to be all powerful ...
the story is hanging by a thread at the moment, and even that thread is thin as fuck.
I mean, MC has pretty much said the following in his inner monologues, he needs more powers to copy and people most suitable for the powers he need currently are Emma and Raphael, with now that other fallen angel, who taught demons some black magic and is opposing god, added to the mix. MC knows he isn't ready to fight god and if were to try, he would be beaten before he could even get there. Angels have had centuries/millenia to train their fighting abilities, where as MC has spent most of his time locked in a torture chamber, the fact that he could dominate as much as he did in hell just shows how weak many of the demons were. This setting clearly doesn't follow the traditional hell and heaven are in constant state of warfare, since by every indication now, heaven could have just swooped in and destroy everything in hell. Instead god wants MC to be the king of hell, who is locked inside there in the little cage that it would be. Hell, you could say that MC is currently a cripple, mentally and physically, who is still trying to learn how to walk, in order to eventually run a marathon. The first bits of training he really has had was with Nyks in that short period of time he was ruling in hell, being sent to Earth by Nyks.
- Sep 18, 2017
- 3,890
- 7,948
eh... we don't know what his father wants, if I remember correctly there's no clear mention of what he wants.
it could be that he sent him away because of his powers, we don't know exactly why , just that he was sent, unless I'm misremembering.
Iirc one of the angels mentions this to MC, that he has created a mess in hell and god wants him to go back there and rule it. It's part of the storyline of where MC almost faces of with the Elders. Now what was the original reason for god stripping MC of his wings and sending to hell, we don't know that.
Fever dream or not, in his mind he was fighting against the person who killed Inessa, the one he's been having nightmares of, and since he stabbed Azel (who we know was holding back) while thinking he was stabbing him, he wasn't just flailing around, but seeing Azel as Zak or whatever Kreon's son's name was.
Based on what we saw, any war between the two would end in 5" with the Elders just showing their faces and all the demons shitting their pants or get instantly wiped out... The MC went on his own little killing spree after Inessa's murder and even "bullied" his way back to hell and there were no "repercussions", so unless they are suicidal, I don't see why the demons would wager a war against even more powerful beings if he'd kill a couple of them at college.
That power balance, or imbalance in this case, creates another plot hole about the MC being the only one who can rule hell, because the demons would rebel against anyone else...
There are two problems with that. Firstly they already rebelled against the MC once, that's why Inessa is dead, and secondly if the result of that "rebellion" was hundreds (Maybe even thousands? We don't really know) of deaths, why would they try to do the same against someone even stronger than him?
The game looks amazing because it really does, the renders are great. Should still give it a shot, because the opening is hype as hell (well, to me. There may be holes). You may not have the same problems some of us have.
The overarching story is interesting.
---
Yeah, that makes sense to an extent. I just read through the last bit of Chapter 3 because of Boehser Onkel's find. I'll jump at any moment to walk away from Emma. It still doesn't change my feeling on the whole situation, I'm not a fan of the hallucination reason for losing it, I kinda want MC to be in charge of wanting to fight even if it's unreasonable... Now that I think about it, I guess I just don't like Emma's power... and Emma, but probably her power too, which could be the reason for no one acting right.
----
I'd assume God knows his power and wanted MC to get away from him before he gained his power. So God is scared and basically jumpstarted his own fall.
- Aug 30, 2019
- 955
- 4,021
Again, those are demons. There is obviously a HUGE power different between the angels and demons, ESPECIALLY an Archangel. How did you think Azel got as important of a task as the Angel of Death? In almost every iteration of biblical lore that's like the equivalent to the "Hand of God" not exactly your "little bitch" of an Archangel. So him "semi" struggling against an Archangel who's had her powers since childhood, compared to someone who just discovered theirs, OF COURSE there is a power gap. That all being said, he's not going all out either, his mind is quite literally trying to hold him back (i.e Luna and the annoying guy) and him not using the Shadow Army at his beck and call.
As to the other point, it doesn't take a genius to know he wasn't going to beat God right away, give me a break. I'm pretty sure he mentions several times that he needs more power, and that his first step is to hone the Goddess's power and Raphael's, along with anything else he can get his hands on. As to why he was willing to go against Bethor and the Elders... it's most likely because he was in a bad headspace, I mean he literally says he wasn't thinking. Imo it was a willing suicide charge.
The power struggle between Angels and Demons, God and the MC, is the LEAST issue that this VN has. The issue is the family (who are obviously the primary LVs) being oblivious to the obvious trauma the MC has gone through.
Upon rereading I decided to take a serious look at the story and how the characters react to see if maybe I was too furious at the family at the time to see the true picture, and my conclusion was:
1. The writing is "alright" definitely better than most VNs but lackluster in some conversations (i.e some lines literally disregard what they were just talking about, nothing a small rewrite on said lines couldn't fix). I think it truly excels when the MC is deep in thought about his trauma.
2. The renders are great and arguably one of the best parts of the VN 2nd to only (imo) the concept/theme. Which is playing as a motherfuckin all powerful (or soon to be given his interesting power) Archangel. Playing out the typical Lucifer story with a bit more depth than just, "I'm evil and I want my father's throne."
3. The MC is good imo. Sure the direction of the family dynamic trying to get all buddy buddy with him and him just blatantly ignoring their ignorance sometimes is a bit annoying, again, nothing a rewrite couldn't fix. I think this is done for if you're trying to take the good path, the MC comes off as pretty neutral all things considered, and that's welcomed to me. The last thing I'd want in a concept like this is the MC to be happy, jolly, and horny, which brings me to my next point.
4. The sexual nature of the VN is welcomed the way it's going about it. Like I said before; he's not a go lucky hornball, but instead standoffish. And while I like that you can pick whatever sexual feelings you feel towards someone, when you DO pick them, it's less a super horny nature peeping tom, and moreso comes off as blatant curiosity. As for Azel's mannerisms it's obvious she's like your teasing tomboy older sister, and Emma is infatuated with us due to A. Being her long lost son and B. The scent powers we are using against her unknowingly.
5. The family, okay so I reread everything and maybe I'm giving it the benefit of the doubt, but I actually don't mind the family AS MUCH as I used to. Hear me out; the way they are going about the recovery of the MC is questionable in it's effectiveness realistically, but that's how it goes in real life sometimes. I've personally gone through a traumatic experience in my life and while the answer may have seemed clear to my family as to how they could fix me, it wasn't the way I WANTED to be fixed. They are TRYING, as opposed to some families that will just let you mellow in self doubt and give you TOO much space, eventually leading to suicide.
A. If you think about it from Emma's perspective she's never really lost a child (other than that raven chick but I'd say we don't have enough information about that yet), so she's trying to be all inclusive as she feels like she's failed us as a parent. And say she tried to force God to stop him from sending the MC to Hell, that would've potentially risked a War that would've resulted in countless deaths amongst her children over ONE child, as harsh as that sounds, I probably would've made the same choice as her. And for the record, she has had nightmares and a sense of guilt about the whole thing so she's not as bad as Azel.
B. Raphael is the nicest, she tried to let the MC know ahead of time. She also strikes me as the shy type so maybe that plays a role in it, always being forced to heal wounds or take care of the MC during their youth makes you feel unwanted for anything but what you can do for someone. Being yelled at by the one person you were supposed to protect, probably doesn't help.
C. Azel's the worst, again all she needs to do is acknowledge what she did was FUCKED UP regardless of the consequences and give the MC some space. Nough said on that because here's my primary point and the main issue imo to this whole VN.
6. So if the family is just being a normal family in the way that they aren't perfect in handling a traumatic experience, what's the issue? Here in lies the MAJOR plot hole; the MC has said outright a few times about being tortured in Hell, but either A. They refuse to listen to what the fuck he just said or B. They think he means it metaphorically. If it's the latter I can respect that as possible but if it's the former this whole VN is fucked. Because while he has said it a few times, they all insist they have no idea what actually happened to him in Hell. Raphael says it, AZEL says it (which would justifiably explain her nonchalant attitude) and even Emma says it, just like that in fact. So maybe they REALLY thought it was just a prison and don't know that he was actually tortured. Maybe they were even told that he wasn't going to get the torture treatment by God, and saw it more as a unjustified time out?
But then begs the biggest question, even if that were BOTH true, how did they not figure out or hear rumors that the King of HELL's favorite toy to torture was an Angel? There was only one in there as far as everyone knew, and with how fast the news of Hell being conquered came to Earth, you would think that a high profile ARCHANGEL would be a hot topic of discussion for the Demons on Earth at least in the beginning.
A. So we can't blame the family for the way they are handling the MC as unrealistic.
B. We can't blame the way they are acting if they truly didn't know that he was tortured for centuries.
C. We can't blame them for not trying to reach him.
D. And we can't blame them for not hearing his prayers.
But we CAN blame them for if they KNEW about the torture, and we CAN blame them for not finding out about said torture. Unless the King of Demons kept it all under wraps. As far as we know, only Prince Zak (his son), Inessa (his maid) and some seer that thought he was going to die anyway actually knew BEFORE he took the throne that he was being tortured. Those are all high positions of power in the hierarchy of Hell where looking the wrong way can get you killed let alone questioning said positions.
Those are my lenient defendable thoughts on the matter. I am curious if some of you could try to see it from those perspectives. What are your thoughts?
- Oct 7, 2022
- 315
- 1,169
I really don't understand people who are only here to give negative criticism all the time.Hey, nobody said it was a good college....
But yeah, for this game i'd strongly advise to play it first.... It's pretty good actually, but you can decide for yourself, reading the thread just sets expectations.... To be fair, there's been some over analyzing in this thread, it's a fantasy game, not a psychological thriller...
If you're not that satisfied, maybe this game isn't for you, why torture yourself?
I hope the developer is not affected by such comments, it is one of the rare games that I am playing with pleasure these days, which is not a copy of someone else.
They're obviously trying to get revenge on the developer who killed Ines by doing this. (just kidding)
- Sep 18, 2017
- 3,890
- 7,948
Sorry.. All those points fail...
A. let's not bring realism into it... we are talking about a VN about Hell and Heaven... mythical beings and so on...
and yes I can blame them, it seems so far theiir power it's just... a plot mechaniic (it will come in use at one point, maybe)
B. again .. we know that they are in contact with demons... and they have been for a long time, them saying that they donn't know what happens in hell is beyond retarded and let's say for the sake of the discussion that they don't ... really?you're not curious about your son and brother(in case of MCs sisters) what enviorment he lives in?what happens there ? nothing? really?
C. Again ... Emma is made out to be this all powerful angel... yes I can blame her yes I will blame her.... so far all I've seen is
"Bring back MC
God: No
Okay I'm leaving on earth, see ya!"
D. yeah .. I'm gonna need some proof or soemthing... we're going back to the fact that Emma iis ... this all powerful angel... as powerful as God.. so it's REALLY hard to believe she didn't hear him..
Like I said their powers are used just when it's useful for the writer/dev not as it should be...
- Mar 26, 2022
- 33
- 42
Also it took the MC less than 1 month to figure out a way to travel back to hell and he was out of touch with the world for a long time with zero connections before being forced to leave hell
It is ridiculous for his sisters and mother to not be able to reach the same conclusion and result
- Aug 30, 2019
- 955
- 4,021
A. Their power has nothing to do with what I was talking about. I was referring to the realism of how they are handling a first for them, mental trauma. If anyone was an expert at it it wouldn't be such a delicate matter to tackle to begin with. Having powers doesn't immediately make you above everything else. You can still have problems completely irrelevant to I can shoot shadow knives out of my hands, get off your high horse.
B. They were worried about the MC. Azel mentions Emma having night terrors and having to go to therapy I already clarified this. The family is trying to reconnect with the MC in the best way that THEY believe they can. In that sense they abandoned everything they knew and went to Earth, tried to save the MC but God put a guardian and removed the known gateway. There was nothing they COULD do, that all being said; I already clarified but I guess I'll repeat myself, IF they didn't know that the MC was being tortured (which is entirely possible, but would be very hard to believe imo), then for all they knew he was just being held prisoner. In the flashback to when God closed the gateway he even mentions that the MC will be fine (obvious lie) but to most of them his word is absolute. I don't think Emma or Raphael bought it, but Azel and Raniel all STILL work for God, trying to play both sides. I already mentioned that I wouldn't forgive those 2 unless Azel was brought to tears and TRULY didn't realize she was sending the MC to be tortured.
C. You are high, yet again, she did say all of those things, but you failed to remember that she tried to bring him out of Hell right after the fact, or that she had night terrors previously, and if that's not enough for you, my next point.
D. You're right, she is all powerful, to an extent. This is where you fail miserably to mention that:
1. The powers are relevant to what they do, last I checked the power to control all living entities doesn't also include the power to hear things across dimensions dumbass.
2. She sent demons to Hell to gain any information, which is why upon further inspection I'm prone to believe the fact that they didn't return is because the King was keeping the torture a secret, as well as God.
3. She is not as powerful as God stop huffing that copium. The MC MENTIONS that if her powers really do work on everything that they COULD be used on God, not that they actually can.
4. Even if they did work on God we have no way of knowing the extent of her powers, their limits. For all we know she can only suggest to God and not so much as full blown control him. What if it takes everything she has and while she's issuing one command God has a failsafe with the Elders to attack her, she's already preoccupied. This leads to war, a war with her children's lives on the line. That being said anyone God threw at her would be useless because she just tells them to fuck off, which would also have to lead to a war to take her down. We also don't know how much God loves her, maybe he was just scared of the MC's potential moreso than his love for Emma.
5. God closed the gateway, power over reality space time and all that. If you can't PHYSICALLY get over there how in the fuck are you supposed to send emails?
You can blame them but I don't think it should be as heavily as I first saw it. They aren't monsters but they are pretty dysfunctional with eachother.
Last edited:
- Aug 30, 2019
- 955
- 4,021
That is true. I guess the only defense is that the MC was willing to do dark magic or whatever? Wasn't there a stigma against it? Maybe there's a rule against angels using it that goes beyond principles. We know the Demons that Emma sent could do it, but we also have to remember the MC isn't really an angel anymore and he also has the special power to use other powers. If dark magic counts as that, Raphael already has healing and Emma control, so maybe they weren't able to PERSONALLY use said portals of dark magic to get there.
- Aug 30, 2019
- 955
- 4,021
No I get that, I like this game too, which is why I was bringing constructive criticism. I gave my take on it, and I gave solutions. I want this project to succeed because I adore the renders, MC, theme, etc. But that's all for not if the writing becomes unbearably unbelievable in the way the characters interact with each other. You see it all the time in VNs which usually lead to a fuck ton of hate, this leading to delayed and then eventually cancelled projects. I wish the creator the best and take what I say with a grain of salt, it's just a game. But there ARE obvious issues that would only take a minor bit of time to fix RIGHT NOW, rather than looking back on it later with chapters upon chapters of work already ahead of it.
- Sep 18, 2017
- 3,890
- 7,948
then you failed to properly express yourself and that seems to be a you problem not me...
also you're moving the goal post but whatever you say.
and since when do you need to be a "expert" to realize that acting like nothing happened and making fun of MC and so on it's not the best tactic...
you're really reaching ...
They were worried about MC , that's a good one
))"They were worried about the MC. " no they weren't
)) but chose to believe whatever you want"The family is trying to reconnect with the MC in the best way that THEY believe they can" then the family is borderline retarded if not actually retarded
"In that sense they abandoned everything they knew and went to Earth, tried to save the MC but God put a guardian and removed the known gateway." someone already mentioned this... Raphael 1 of the archangels,Azel or Azael or whatever the fuck her name is , is the archangel of death and Emma the all powerful rivaling God ... the plan they come up with .. was "send Raphael and hope for the best" ? what kind of fucked up shit is that? seriously.. someone already mentioned that you can see 5 year olds trying to steal cookies with better plannning than that... come on...
"There was nothing they COULD do, that all being said; I already clarified but I guess I'll repeat myself, IF they didn't know that the MC was being tortured (which is entirely possible, but would be very hard to believe imo), then for all they knew he was just being held prisoner."
yes sure , they didn't know anything, all the demons they interacted told them that Hell is actually a water park... them being angels again didn't knnow anything about their enemies .... they were actually a hotel ....
Really ...
"In the flashback to when God closed the gateway he even mentions that the MC will be fine (obvious lie) but to most of them his word is absolute" except when it comes to Azael who listens to God when it suits the plot
) , please...no need to insult people ... you can deliver your comment wiithout trying to insult anyone but sure whatever floats your boat I reckon, I reckon you also know your point doesn't hold that much ground if you're trying to add some insults to it...
HAHAHHAHAHA
1. one has nothing to do with the other but sure keep changing the goal
)))2. Yes it was a well kept secret that there was an angel being tortured in hell, really well kept , it's not like all demons knew nope, a secret
3. sorry to say but you're the one with the copium
) , you really need to play the VN again and actually read what the characters say about Emma4. hahahah , right , that's an excellent point
))5. and yet MC was able .. gee wiz .. I wonder how he did that.. within a month of his freedom.. I mean .. it's not like the family spent centuries trying to do what MC did in 1 month right? hahahahaha ...
yeah man, they have tits.. I saw ... they are good looking for trash ngl...