Just to add something I don't think anyone mentioned, when they thought the MC would stay in hell for just a few hours, Emma wanted to send a healer along with those who were supposed to retrieve him, so I'm pretty sure they know he wasn't drinking mojitos next to a pool all those centuries he spent there.then you failed to properly express yourself and that seems to be a you problem not me...
also you're moving the goal post but whatever you say.
and since when do you need to be a "expert" to realize that acting like nothing happened and making fun of MC and so on it's not the best tactic...
you're really reaching ...
They were worried about MC , that's a good one))
"They were worried about the MC. " no they weren't
"The family is trying to reconnect with the MC in the best way that THEY believe they can" then the family is borderline retarded if not actually retarded
"In that sense they abandoned everything they knew and went to Earth, tried to save the MC but God put a guardian and removed the known gateway." someone already mentioned this... Raphael 1 of the archangels,Azel or Azael or whatever the fuck her name is , is the archangel of death and Emma the all powerful rivaling God ... the plan they come up with .. was "send Raphael and hope for the best" ? what kind of fucked up shit is that? seriously.. someone already mentioned that you can see 5 year olds trying to steal cookies with better plannning than that... come on...
"There was nothing they COULD do, that all being said; I already clarified but I guess I'll repeat myself, IF they didn't know that the MC was being tortured (which is entirely possible, but would be very hard to believe imo), then for all they knew he was just being held prisoner."
yes sure , they didn't know anything, all the demons they interacted told them that Hell is actually a water park... them being angels again didn't knnow anything about their enemies .... they were actually a hotel ....
Really ...
"In the flashback to when God closed the gateway he even mentions that the MC will be fine (obvious lie) but to most of them his word is absolute" except when it comes to Azael who listens to God when it suits the plot
no need to insult people ... you can deliver your comment wiithout trying to insult anyone but sure whatever floats your boat I reckon, I reckon you also know your point doesn't hold that much ground if you're trying to add some insults to it...
HAHAHHAHAHA
1. one has nothing to do with the other but sure keep changing the goal
2. Yes it was a well kept secret that there was an angel being tortured in hell, really well kept , it's not like all demons knew nope, a secret
3. sorry to say but you're the one with the copium
4. hahahah , right , that's an excellent point
5. and yet MC was able .. gee wiz .. I wonder how he did that.. within a month of his freedom.. I mean .. it's not like the family spent centuries trying to do what MC did in 1 month right? hahahahaha ...
yeah man, they have tits.. I saw ... they are good looking for trash ngl...
- Thread starter 7767
- Start date
A bit late to the party but I played the update just today.
I liked it more than the update before this one but that doesn't really say much considering how terrible that one was. The dev is obviously trying to redeem and make us like the family which, to be honest, isn't really working for me so far. One thing I will say tho, I think Emma and Raphael are still salvageable characters. It's gonna take a lot of work but they're not irredeemable imo.
Azel on the other hand is completely lost. I have no idea what the dev is gonna do with her, I'm pretty sure I won't like it considering what the dev did with her character so far, I honestly want to treat her as bad as possible and the game just won't let me. She's one of the most insufferable characters I've ever seen in a VN. And let's be honest, she's a big part of the story and is not going anywhere anytime soon
I liked it more than the update before this one but that doesn't really say much considering how terrible that one was. The dev is obviously trying to redeem and make us like the family which, to be honest, isn't really working for me so far. One thing I will say tho, I think Emma and Raphael are still salvageable characters. It's gonna take a lot of work but they're not irredeemable imo.
Azel on the other hand is completely lost. I have no idea what the dev is gonna do with her, I'm pretty sure I won't like it considering what the dev did with her character so far, I honestly want to treat her as bad as possible and the game just won't let me. She's one of the most insufferable characters I've ever seen in a VN. And let's be honest, she's a big part of the story and is not going anywhere anytime soon
- Aug 30, 2019
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1. They were worried about the MC, I already said Emma had night terrors and had to take drugs and go to therapy. Raphael was worried when we disappeared. And Azel was well, she's Azel so you got me there. Should they have been MORE worried about the MC? OF COURSE, but that's only under the assumption that he was tortured and prayed for their help the entire time. The latter they didn't know about, and the former I've already stated but you didn't listen; they could have POTENTIALLY (but not likely) not known about. Which I also dived into but more when we get there.then you failed to properly express yourself and that seems to be a you problem not me...
also you're moving the goal post but whatever you say.
and since when do you need to be a "expert" to realize that acting like nothing happened and making fun of MC and so on it's not the best tactic...
you're really reaching ...
They were worried about MC , that's a good one
"They were worried about the MC. " no they weren't
"The family is trying to reconnect with the MC in the best way that THEY believe they can" then the family is borderline retarded if not actually retarded
"In that sense they abandoned everything they knew and went to Earth, tried to save the MC but God put a guardian and removed the known gateway." someone already mentioned this... Raphael 1 of the archangels,Azel or Azael or whatever the fuck her name is , is the archangel of death and Emma the all powerful rivaling God ... the plan they come up with .. was "send Raphael and hope for the best" ? what kind of fucked up shit is that? seriously.. someone already mentioned that you can see 5 year olds trying to steal cookies with better plannning than that... come on...
"There was nothing they COULD do, that all being said; I already clarified but I guess I'll repeat myself, IF they didn't know that the MC was being tortured (which is entirely possible, but would be very hard to believe imo), then for all they knew he was just being held prisoner."
yes sure , they didn't know anything, all the demons they interacted told them that Hell is actually a water park... them being angels again didn't knnow anything about their enemies .... they were actually a hotel ....
Really ...
"In the flashback to when God closed the gateway he even mentions that the MC will be fine (obvious lie) but to most of them his word is absolute" except when it comes to Azael who listens to God when it suits the plot
no need to insult people ... you can deliver your comment wiithout trying to insult anyone but sure whatever floats your boat I reckon, I reckon you also know your point doesn't hold that much ground if you're trying to add some insults to it...
HAHAHHAHAHA
1. one has nothing to do with the other but sure keep changing the goal
2. Yes it was a well kept secret that there was an angel being tortured in hell, really well kept , it's not like all demons knew nope, a secret
3. sorry to say but you're the one with the copium
4. hahahah , right , that's an excellent point
5. and yet MC was able .. gee wiz .. I wonder how he did that.. within a month of his freedom.. I mean .. it's not like the family spent centuries trying to do what MC did in 1 month right? hahahahaha ...
yeah man, they have tits.. I saw ... they are good looking for trash ngl...
2. So because the family not an expert on trying to reconnect with the MC they are retarded, great point.
3. Yeah the plan was pretty dogshit, but alas I think they were more limited than we gave them credit for. Let's look at the facts; the only REAL family that tried for the MC was Emma and Raphael, Azel is still a lapdog for God along with the rest of the family, Azel just wants to still try to justify her actions by living with Emma, I'm not giving her a pass on that, what she did was fucked up. So if Emma goes down there, doesn't matter. The plan in case you forgot was to NOT use powers so that GOD HIMSELF didn't detect what was going on. This was a sneaky breakout mission not a revolution, I already explained (as have the characters) what would happen if they tried to go against his wishes, it would be WAR. But God had placed a guardian, a guardian that was too strong to face WITHOUT powers, so Raphael was forced to and IMMEDIATELY God closed the rift, and sent her back, there goes their plan good luck tricking the guy who can open gateways again, or perhaps you thought the power to control living beings includes opening non living portals? Maybe, so then the second bit was Emma sent demons to go to Hell but they never returned. I'm assuming they meant possessing demons and just sent them out of their vessels? Or maybe they used black magic like the MC, but again, we don't know if the individuals with ONE power can use multiple, otherwise the MC wouldn't really be all that special now would he?
4. I'll say it yet again...it's hard for me to believe that they didn't know he was tortured, but it's possible. Sure, they may know that all the other souls are tortured, but they also know that the MC is a special case, for all they knew he was just in time out like a prison. In the flashback they mentioned he was supposed to be their for 6 hours surrounded by demons; not, "MY BOY IS BEING TORTURED FOR 6 HOURS IT'S BEEN 7 WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO HIM?" Which is why I said it's probable that God had lied and that maybe the King of Hell had kept it a secret that he was being tortured WHICH IS POSSIBLE, because he is the King, if he doesn't want info getting out and he killed all of Emma's messenger demons what makes you think anyone is going to snitch to their mortal enemy?
5. But...it is. As far as we know most of the angels aren't living with Emma right? It's said that God forbid any angels from going to see her yet SOME but not all still do. An example would be Azel, it's a divorce it's not rocket science, kids don't want to see their parents split up so it makes sense for her to not give up her "work" for Dad but still choose to live with Mom. Again Azel is one of those points where she needs a serious self reflection so I'm not going to delve into her more than I have to.
6. Yeah sorry I insulted you, bit out of line but my points still hold ground whether or not I hurt your feelings.
7. Yeah I know I was fetching for the God vs Emma thing but I like I said in my original post these were to try and justify the game as much as possible. I could be right, it would explain a lot. Or I could be wrong, which would also explain a lot. But yet again, and again, and again...our only source is the MC MENTIONING that he could use the powers against God, we have no way of know if that's actually possible. I feel like if it was that easy, Emma would've done it by now and never let the MC go to Hell in the first place.
8. I already said but I suppose I could repeat myself, it's hard to believe but possible that the angels can't use another power, they aren't the MC. Raphael mentions dark magic as bad so either they don't like it as a stigma or they literally just can't use it as it would corrupt them, it's unclear right now, hence my question marks???
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- Aug 30, 2019
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Ya that's a fair point, I guess the only excuse I can think of is that it was a precaution? Demons and Angels aren't exactly known to like eachother, but God had said everything would be fine on the MC's end (again obvious lie) but that's the only non plot hole excuse I can think of. Plus Raphael has always been close to the MC and Emma was always hounding on her to heal or help the MC. I don't think centuries passed in 6 hours though.
- Sep 18, 2017
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that's like saying an IT doesn't know how a PC works or a network... it makes 0 sense that they didn't know...
remember , like I told you before, they talked TO PLENTY of demons, they also have one who workked for them a lot of time (from what I remember) so them saying they didn't know ... well it's nothing short of bullshit...
and even if they didn't talked to demons .. it's HELL what do they think hell iis ... like I mentioned before.. a amusament park?really..
read what I said again... I said you don't need to be an expert to realize that the way they are handling is retarded therefore making the family seem retarded .. if they aren't.
You keep mentioning this WAR WAR WAR, where? the only thing God said was that anyone who tries to get him out of there would suffer the same fate.. that sounds more like they would be imprisoned there ...
The plan was retarded you want to admiit or not that's your issue, Raphael could have had a distraction, I fail to see where I said they needed to kill the beast or use magic or whatever, anyone could have come to distract the beast , not engage it, just take it's focus so Raphael could pass the portal .. not doing so .. it's like I said.. borderline retarded makes Emma Raphael and Azael seeem.... braindamaged ...
it's simple tactics.. nothing advanced...
Demons.. so many demons they've talked to , not one of them told them how souls are tortured there?and that the fact that if an angel would be there he would totally fucked.. no chance of anything... really?.....
So Gods word is not absolute again.... shiit seems like it's going the way the plot needs it....
Azel iis trash ... defend her how much you want and the rest of the famiily doesn't change the fact that they are trash.
yeah ... sounds more like a subtle insult again .. but yeah sure if you think it holds ground then .. nothing I can say will change your mind and we will be running in circles.
I reckon you're referring to the portals, in that case yes it's hard to believe a lot of things.
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Well out of necessity he did use dark magic for someone he barely knew, i can't see why a mother won't do the same for her beloved son
he is still angel nothing can change that, with or without wings, if he is able to do dark magic, i can't see why a more powerful being couldn't do the same
- Dec 4, 2017
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That only really works if both sides would be at least remotly close in power.
If i had to do a comparison, it is as if you have the USA on one side and Luxembourg on the other and try to establish a power balance...that just doesn't work, the US could do whatever they want.
But let's say some angels break the balance, then what ?
Any kind of actions against them would lead to war and complete elimination of the demons in short time. Would they all go willingly in their own death, out of camaraderie, loyality, honor or the like, because the balance was broken and few of them died ?
Even if humans have some value to them, i really doubt it would matter if millions or even billions die (and i have real doubts the demons would manage that, even if they tried to kill as many humans as they can, bevor the angels wipe them out). Humans would need a few decades, maybe a century or two and the loses would be replenished, no time for immortals.
There's also the point that demons lack means of an easy way to go to earth in large numbers, which angels can easily do.
So far the most powerfull being of Hell and Azel clashed, the city stands, at best the college is gone, which i doubt. I just can't see how humanty would end up destroyed as collateral damage...
No the MC is still an angel, just without wings and dark magic is as the name implies, magic, which has nothing to do with abilities. Even demons with no abilities can learn/use it and was ''created'' by Azazel an angel...
So what if there was a stigma ?
The family pretty much said, 'fuck you' to god, is going against his direct orders to get their son/brother back.
But dark magic is not allowed, so that's the point were we draw the line ?
No we can, i don't expect them to be perfect, not even an entirely human reaction, but their reaction is so far of the charts that it is just mind blowing dumb.
Instead of a caring and worried mother, we have a cougar in heat. Her first reaction being, drooling over his body. Her first reaction seeing the MC in underwear, scarred from top to toe, it's not shock or anything alike, but again her being horny.
And no, she acted like this before the MC had any chance to begin to copy her powers.
Azel, there is said enough about her already. But even after she sees that her brother tried to kill himself because of the shit she dumped him in, she is just being herself.
I mean, for fucks sake, she is the angel of death. After her own statement she is dealing with death and suicide for thousands of years, she should be an expert on the topic, but any help or sympathie for her brother, nope.
Raphael, expert on healing and works as doctor...same shit. Lets send the guy which just escaped Hell after torture since childhood, tried to kill himself and hates crowds to college...yeah, that's pure genius. We all know college is the most pressing issue a tortured and suicidal person could have...
Also lets ignore the MC's opinion everytime, let's force him in human society against his will, berate him at every change and act like he is the one doing them wrong if he doesn't want to go along with their crap...
This isn't just how a ''normal family'' behaves. Either it's completely retarted behavior or they are simply uncaring, as they just do what they want with little regards to the MC.
I get it, suspension of disbelief and i have normaly no problem with that, but this is just to much...
Humans know what Hell is about, demons know how Hell is. Yet for some reason the Godess, the second most powerful and likely one of the oldest beings in existence (which is friends with powerful demons), as well as the angels, which are cosmic guardians have no clue how Hell is ? No really, how should that even work ?
Then we have the MC which says, he was tortured in Hell and Azel which notices that the MC tried to commit suicide because of the trauma he suffered... yet they still don't get that he was literally tortured in Hell ?
Again, how should that work ? They would need to be the dumbest beings in existence to not understand that at this point.
Also why would Kreon keep it a secret that the MC is favorite toy in the first place ?
It was an archangel which dropped him in Hell, on god's order no less. Then god closed of all conections with Hell and forbad any angel to go there.
He shouldn't be worried about that getting out and i don't think he is well informed about what Emma and Raphael do.
The chances that the only angel in Hell stays secret for long is close to zero imo.
True, we got an explanation on that. A really bad explanation, which make them look retarded, as even children are more capable of tactics then the Godess and 2 archangels are...
Like why didn't Emma not go (or god forbid all 3 of them) ? She would have ordered the guardian to stand down, go to Hell and well, Hell would be kneeling infront of her...that's the problem you have with over powerfull characters.
Same like why do they need to work ? Emma could be the leader of a religion, a country, or whatever she wants. She could go to a meeting of the rich elite and they all would be willingly give her all the money she wants....and they could spend their time on more productive things, like trying to get the MC out of Hell.
There's also no way god doesn't know where Emma is, like every angel seems to know, even the ones still working for him like Aniel...
So either god doesn't give a fuck about what Emma does, is watching it for entertainment, or he can't beat her in a confrontation, at least not without risiking his own hide.
Yeah again a strange explanation imo. God closed off Hell completely, so airtight not even prayers get out.
But for some reason demons can still come and go as they please, dark magic and human summoning among other things, so that kinda works...
In my honest opinion, both the explanation of why the prayers not worked, as well as why they couldn't reach the MC look like damage controll to me. Likely as the dev got some backlash about the family, which should be the main LI's.
As for Emma, there is no way she didn't lose any ''children'' before, angels being cosmic guardians and all.
Also Emma is normaly way colder, she only behaves completely different towards the MC, for some reason.
I think it would be more apt to say the angels are her creation, rather than her children, well with a few exeptions were she cares.
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That's exactly my point. If she thought he'd might need a healer after just a few hours there, she'd have to be really and I mean really stupid to believe his centuries there were some sort of vacation. Because that's how they treat his centuries of torture. Like he just returned from spring break or something. That's what a lot of people say when their talking about their lack of remorse, empathy, whatever you want to call it. The only emotional expression we've seen so far is "horniness" from Emma and "douchines" from Azel.
And no, she didn't want to send Raphael just because they were close. She clearly knew he was in danger as you can see below.
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He's convinced me. Torture be damned, SEXY TIME!
But seriously, either this game introduces some other LIs or I'm sticking for story only (unless it goes back to school). Which, ironically, would be just fine.
Nothing wrong with good game without any porn content.
The moment the mc's dick goes anywhere near the family pussies game will be deleted and ignored along with the dev for me that is.
- Mar 7, 2023
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It's a porn game website, what are you doing here? This is one of the few games without sex...
You probably are already ignoring 99% of the games and developers here, could as well ignore the website complete...
Then the dev should learn to write better chars then shitty ones that betray the fucking Mc.
It is an erotic visual novel, and there are more characters than the family. An important part of visual novels is choice. If the Developer makes the player/reader hate the characters, then there should be a choice not to lay with them.
... I mean, the characters aren't bad. If the opening wasn't as intense, I'd be cool with them.
Also, The game itself isn't bad. It's actually good. Everyone has criticism and it's valid. I suppose people feel strongly about it because they like it.
I'll trust that the writer has a plan.
Also, The game itself isn't bad. It's actually good. Everyone has criticism and it's valid. I suppose people feel strongly about it because they like it.
I'll trust that the writer has a plan.
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- Dec 29, 2018
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These issues are relatively easy to fix. Have the demons weaker individually, but vastly more numerous. That's probably what the author is already going for, judging by what's in the game already. There seem to be some translation issues, like when Zak demands that the main character "abolish" his father's throne, so I'm not sure how much of the dialogue can be taken literally. Especially since so many of their discussions are about rumours. You also have a lot of talk about the main character being King of Hell, even though there are clearly different kingdoms in Hell, and more than one King, so that's a bit confusing. There are lots of inconsistencies in the game, but the one thing that is very consistent is that the angels do not want a full scale war.
Bethor was very confident when confronting the main character, until those shadow soldiers were summoned. Then he damn near shit himself. I think that's an indication that being outnumbered is usually a problem for angels. This is also supported by Nyks in her desperation to get the main character out of hell so that he isn't killed in battle with Zak's army. The main character didn't defeat Zak and his armies in a big battle. He arrived unexpectedly, killed some guards in the hall, and then Zak. The details of the aftermath aren't conclusively shown to us. We know that he killed "everyone fit to run the place", but he obviously didn't kill every demon since there's still plenty left to rule. As for why the demons would follow the main character and not any other angel, it could be due to him being a banished angel (which is what Azel hypothesized).
I think this aspect of the story is salvageable. It's needs some tweaking, but it's nowhere near the shitshow that the family and college stuff has been.
If i'm not completely mistaken, generally in different mythologies etc... angel that loses its wings also changes into something else, or at least becomes fallen angel, for example Lucifer. Also dark magic might be only available for entities that have some form of "darkness" in them, which might be why no angel that hasn't fallen would use it. It's also common trope in fantasy that magic users have affinities with different magic attributes and can't use all of them, for example opposite attributes.
- Jun 18, 2022
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- Sep 1, 2020
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Maybe after what happened this update the family will finally realize how much they fucked up in the past and that acting all sweet and essentially like nothing that bad happened is not the play going forward. That goes for Emma and Raphael, Azel is straight up irredeemable.
For this story to make any kind of narrative sense, there has to be a complete change in Azel's character or a change in how MC treats her, one or the other, because right now, she's acting like she did no wrong and all bitchy about it almost making fun of MC and MC's acting like everything's cool and that she didn't do and isn't actually doing anything wrong. The way it's handled now firstly doesn't make any sense and secondly is dragging the whole game down.
For this story to make any kind of narrative sense, there has to be a complete change in Azel's character or a change in how MC treats her, one or the other, because right now, she's acting like she did no wrong and all bitchy about it almost making fun of MC and MC's acting like everything's cool and that she didn't do and isn't actually doing anything wrong. The way it's handled now firstly doesn't make any sense and secondly is dragging the whole game down.
- Dec 4, 2017
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IIRC they are fallen because they sined and/or rebelled first and then were banished to Hell were they became demons and the like under Lucifer, has not so much to do with their wings.
That is the choice the MC has imo, stay good or become evil, maybe a devil.
But so far he is an angel. The MC just doesn't consider himself to be part of them anymore because he was ostracized.
As for the dark magic.
Could be, but at least so far there is no mentioning of any limitations of who could learn/use it.
Just that it is forbidden for angels to use it, which seems to imply they could if they wanted, otherwise no need to forbid it.
- Aug 10, 2019
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