BTLD

Engaged Member
Sep 18, 2017
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ut then begs the biggest question, even if that were BOTH true, how did they not figure out or hear rumors that the King of HELL's favorite toy to torture was an Angel? There was only one in there as far as everyone knew, and with how fast the news of Hell being conquered came to Earth, you would think that a high profile ARCHANGEL would be a hot topic of discussion for the Demons on Earth at least in the beginning.

A. So we can't blame the family for the way they are handling the MC as unrealistic.
B. We can't blame the way they are acting if they truly didn't know that he was tortured for centuries.
C. We can't blame them for not trying to reach him.
D. And we can't blame them for not hearing his prayers.
Sorry.. All those points fail...
A. let's not bring realism into it... we are talking about a VN about Hell and Heaven... mythical beings and so on...
and yes I can blame them, it seems so far theiir power it's just... a plot mechaniic (it will come in use at one point, maybe)
B. again .. we know that they are in contact with demons... and they have been for a long time, them saying that they donn't know what happens in hell is beyond retarded and let's say for the sake of the discussion that they don't ... really?you're not curious about your son and brother(in case of MCs sisters) what enviorment he lives in?what happens there ? nothing? really?
C. Again ... Emma is made out to be this all powerful angel... yes I can blame her yes I will blame her.... so far all I've seen is
"Bring back MC
God: No
Okay I'm leaving on earth, see ya!"
D. yeah .. I'm gonna need some proof or soemthing... we're going back to the fact that Emma iis ... this all powerful angel... as powerful as God.. so it's REALLY hard to believe she didn't hear him..
Like I said their powers are used just when it's useful for the writer/dev not as it should be...
 

Xmoe22

Newbie
Mar 26, 2022
32
40
Sorry.. All those points fail...
A. let's not bring realism into it... we are talking about a VN about Hell and Heaven... mythical beings and so on...
and yes I can blame them, it seems so far theiir power it's just... a plot mechaniic (it will come in use at one point, maybe)
B. again .. we know that they are in contact with demons... and they have been for a long time, them saying that they donn't know what happens in hell is beyond retarded and let's say for the sake of the discussion that they don't ... really?you're not curious about your son and brother(in case of MCs sisters) what enviorment he lives in?what happens there ? nothing? really?
C. Again ... Emma is made out to be this all powerful angel... yes I can blame her yes I will blame her.... so far all I've seen is
"Bring back MC
God: No
Okay I'm leaving on earth, see ya!"
D. yeah .. I'm gonna need some proof or soemthing... we're going back to the fact that Emma iis ... this all powerful angel... as powerful as God.. so it's REALLY hard to believe she didn't hear him..
Like I said their powers are used just when it's useful for the writer/dev not as it should be...
Also it took the MC less than 1 month to figure out a way to travel back to hell and he was out of touch with the world for a long time with zero connections before being forced to leave hell
It is ridiculous for his sisters and mother to not be able to reach the same conclusion and result
 

RonaldGrand6969

Active Member
Aug 30, 2019
948
3,927
Sorry.. All those points fail...
A. let's not bring realism into it... we are talking about a VN about Hell and Heaven... mythical beings and so on...
and yes I can blame them, it seems so far theiir power it's just... a plot mechaniic (it will come in use at one point, maybe)
B. again .. we know that they are in contact with demons... and they have been for a long time, them saying that they donn't know what happens in hell is beyond retarded and let's say for the sake of the discussion that they don't ... really?you're not curious about your son and brother(in case of MCs sisters) what enviorment he lives in?what happens there ? nothing? really?
C. Again ... Emma is made out to be this all powerful angel... yes I can blame her yes I will blame her.... so far all I've seen is
"Bring back MC
God: No
Okay I'm leaving on earth, see ya!"
D. yeah .. I'm gonna need some proof or soemthing... we're going back to the fact that Emma iis ... this all powerful angel... as powerful as God.. so it's REALLY hard to believe she didn't hear him..
Like I said their powers are used just when it's useful for the writer/dev not as it should be...
A. Their power has nothing to do with what I was talking about. I was referring to the realism of how they are handling a first for them, mental trauma. If anyone was an expert at it it wouldn't be such a delicate matter to tackle to begin with. Having powers doesn't immediately make you above everything else. You can still have problems completely irrelevant to I can shoot shadow knives out of my hands, get off your high horse.

B. They were worried about the MC. Azel mentions Emma having night terrors and having to go to therapy I already clarified this. The family is trying to reconnect with the MC in the best way that THEY believe they can. In that sense they abandoned everything they knew and went to Earth, tried to save the MC but God put a guardian and removed the known gateway. There was nothing they COULD do, that all being said; I already clarified but I guess I'll repeat myself, IF they didn't know that the MC was being tortured (which is entirely possible, but would be very hard to believe imo), then for all they knew he was just being held prisoner. In the flashback to when God closed the gateway he even mentions that the MC will be fine (obvious lie) but to most of them his word is absolute. I don't think Emma or Raphael bought it, but Azel and Raniel all STILL work for God, trying to play both sides. I already mentioned that I wouldn't forgive those 2 unless Azel was brought to tears and TRULY didn't realize she was sending the MC to be tortured.

C. You are high, yet again, she did say all of those things, but you failed to remember that she tried to bring him out of Hell right after the fact, or that she had night terrors previously, and if that's not enough for you, my next point.

D. You're right, she is all powerful, to an extent. This is where you fail miserably to mention that:
1. The powers are relevant to what they do, last I checked the power to control all living entities doesn't also include the power to hear things across dimensions dumbass.
2. She sent demons to Hell to gain any information, which is why upon further inspection I'm prone to believe the fact that they didn't return is because the King was keeping the torture a secret, as well as God.
3. She is not as powerful as God stop huffing that copium. The MC MENTIONS that if her powers really do work on everything that they COULD be used on God, not that they actually can.
4. Even if they did work on God we have no way of knowing the extent of her powers, their limits. For all we know she can only suggest to God and not so much as full blown control him. What if it takes everything she has and while she's issuing one command God has a failsafe with the Elders to attack her, she's already preoccupied. This leads to war, a war with her children's lives on the line. That being said anyone God threw at her would be useless because she just tells them to fuck off, which would also have to lead to a war to take her down. We also don't know how much God loves her, maybe he was just scared of the MC's potential moreso than his love for Emma.
5. God closed the gateway, power over reality space time and all that. If you can't PHYSICALLY get over there how in the fuck are you supposed to send emails?

You can blame them but I don't think it should be as heavily as I first saw it. They aren't monsters but they are pretty dysfunctional with eachother.
 
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RonaldGrand6969

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Aug 30, 2019
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Also it took the MC less than 1 month to figure out a way to travel back to hell and he was out of touch with the world for a long time with zero connections before being forced to leave hell
It is ridiculous for his sisters and mother to not be able to reach the same conclusion and result
That is true. I guess the only defense is that the MC was willing to do dark magic or whatever? Wasn't there a stigma against it? Maybe there's a rule against angels using it that goes beyond principles. We know the Demons that Emma sent could do it, but we also have to remember the MC isn't really an angel anymore and he also has the special power to use other powers. If dark magic counts as that, Raphael already has healing and Emma control, so maybe they weren't able to PERSONALLY use said portals of dark magic to get there.
 
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RonaldGrand6969

Active Member
Aug 30, 2019
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I really don't understand people who are only here to give negative criticism all the time.
If you're not that satisfied, maybe this game isn't for you, why torture yourself?

I hope the developer is not affected by such comments, it is one of the rare games that I am playing with pleasure these days, which is not a copy of someone else.
They're obviously trying to get revenge on the developer who killed Ines by doing this. (just kidding)
No I get that, I like this game too, which is why I was bringing constructive criticism. I gave my take on it, and I gave solutions. I want this project to succeed because I adore the renders, MC, theme, etc. But that's all for not if the writing becomes unbearably unbelievable in the way the characters interact with each other. You see it all the time in VNs which usually lead to a fuck ton of hate, this leading to delayed and then eventually cancelled projects. I wish the creator the best and take what I say with a grain of salt, it's just a game. But there ARE obvious issues that would only take a minor bit of time to fix RIGHT NOW, rather than looking back on it later with chapters upon chapters of work already ahead of it.
 

BTLD

Engaged Member
Sep 18, 2017
3,890
7,942
A. Their power has nothing to do with what I was talking about. I was referring to the realism of how they are handling a first for them, mental trauma. If anyone was an expert at it it wouldn't be such a delicate matter to tackle to begin with. Having powers doesn't immediately make you above everything else. You can still have problems completely irrelevant to I can shoot shadow knives out of my hands, get off your high horse.
then you failed to properly express yourself and that seems to be a you problem not me...
also you're moving the goal post but whatever you say.
and since when do you need to be a "expert" to realize that acting like nothing happened and making fun of MC and so on it's not the best tactic...
you're really reaching ...
B. They were worried about the MC. Azel mentions Emma having night terrors and having to go to therapy I already clarified this. The family is trying to reconnect with the MC in the best way that THEY believe they can. In that sense they abandoned everything they knew and went to Earth, tried to save the MC but God put a guardian and removed the known gateway. There was nothing they COULD do, that all being said; I already clarified but I guess I'll repeat myself, IF they didn't know that the MC was being tortured (which is entirely possible, but would be very hard to believe imo), then for all they knew he was just being held prisoner. In the flashback to when God closed the gateway he even mentions that the MC will be fine (obvious lie) but to most of them his word is absolute. I don't think Emma or Raphael bought it, but Azel and Raniel all STILL work for God, trying to play both sides. I already mentioned that I wouldn't forgive those 2 unless Azel was brought to tears and TRULY didn't realize she was sending the MC to be tortured.
They were worried about MC , that's a good one :)))
"They were worried about the MC. " no they weren't :))) but chose to believe whatever you want
"The family is trying to reconnect with the MC in the best way that THEY believe they can" then the family is borderline retarded if not actually retarded
"In that sense they abandoned everything they knew and went to Earth, tried to save the MC but God put a guardian and removed the known gateway." someone already mentioned this... Raphael 1 of the archangels,Azel or Azael or whatever the fuck her name is , is the archangel of death and Emma the all powerful rivaling God ... the plan they come up with .. was "send Raphael and hope for the best" ? what kind of fucked up shit is that? seriously.. someone already mentioned that you can see 5 year olds trying to steal cookies with better plannning than that... come on...
"There was nothing they COULD do, that all being said; I already clarified but I guess I'll repeat myself, IF they didn't know that the MC was being tortured (which is entirely possible, but would be very hard to believe imo), then for all they knew he was just being held prisoner."
yes sure , they didn't know anything, all the demons they interacted told them that Hell is actually a water park... them being angels again didn't knnow anything about their enemies .... they were actually a hotel ....
Really ...
"In the flashback to when God closed the gateway he even mentions that the MC will be fine (obvious lie) but to most of them his word is absolute" except when it comes to Azael who listens to God when it suits the plot :)) , please...
C. You are high, yet again, she did say all of those things, but you failed to remember that she tried to bring him out of Hell right after the fact, or that she had night terrors previously, and if that's not enough for you, my next point.
no need to insult people ... you can deliver your comment wiithout trying to insult anyone but sure whatever floats your boat I reckon, I reckon you also know your point doesn't hold that much ground if you're trying to add some insults to it...
D. You're right, she is all powerful, to an extent. This is where you fail miserably to mention that:
1. The powers are relevant to what they do, last I checked the power to control all living entities doesn't also include the power to hear things across dimensions dumbass.
2. She sent demons to Hell to gain any information, which is why upon further inspection I'm prone to believe the fact that they didn't return is because the King was keeping the torture a secret, as well as God.
3. She is not as powerful as God stop huffing that copium. The MC MENTIONS that if her powers really do work on everything that they COULD be used on God, not that they actually can.
4. Even if they did work on God we have no way of knowing the extent of her powers, their limits. For all we know she can only suggest to God and not so much as full blown control him. What if it takes everything she has and while she's issuing one command God has a failsafe with the Elders to attack her, she's already preoccupied. This leads to war, a war with her children's lives on the line. That being said anyone God threw at her would be useless because she just tells them to fuck off, which would also have to lead to a war to take her down. We also don't know how much God loves her, maybe he was just scared of the MC's potential moreso than his love for Emma.
5. God closed the gateway, power over reality space time and all that. If you can't PHYSICALLY get over there how in the fuck are you supposed to send emails?
HAHAHHAHAHA
1. one has nothing to do with the other but sure keep changing the goal :))))
2. Yes it was a well kept secret that there was an angel being tortured in hell, really well kept , it's not like all demons knew nope, a secret
3. sorry to say but you're the one with the copium :)) , you really need to play the VN again and actually read what the characters say about Emma
4. hahahah , right , that's an excellent point :)))
5. and yet MC was able .. gee wiz .. I wonder how he did that.. within a month of his freedom.. I mean .. it's not like the family spent centuries trying to do what MC did in 1 month right? hahahahaha ...
You can blame them but I don't think it should be as heavily as I first saw it. They aren't monsters but they are pretty dysfunctional with eachother.
yeah man, they have tits.. I saw ... they are good looking for trash ngl...
 

eddie987

Well-Known Member
Dec 5, 2018
1,526
6,937
then you failed to properly express yourself and that seems to be a you problem not me...
also you're moving the goal post but whatever you say.
and since when do you need to be a "expert" to realize that acting like nothing happened and making fun of MC and so on it's not the best tactic...
you're really reaching ...

They were worried about MC , that's a good one :)))
"They were worried about the MC. " no they weren't :))) but chose to believe whatever you want
"The family is trying to reconnect with the MC in the best way that THEY believe they can" then the family is borderline retarded if not actually retarded
"In that sense they abandoned everything they knew and went to Earth, tried to save the MC but God put a guardian and removed the known gateway." someone already mentioned this... Raphael 1 of the archangels,Azel or Azael or whatever the fuck her name is , is the archangel of death and Emma the all powerful rivaling God ... the plan they come up with .. was "send Raphael and hope for the best" ? what kind of fucked up shit is that? seriously.. someone already mentioned that you can see 5 year olds trying to steal cookies with better plannning than that... come on...
"There was nothing they COULD do, that all being said; I already clarified but I guess I'll repeat myself, IF they didn't know that the MC was being tortured (which is entirely possible, but would be very hard to believe imo), then for all they knew he was just being held prisoner."
yes sure , they didn't know anything, all the demons they interacted told them that Hell is actually a water park... them being angels again didn't knnow anything about their enemies .... they were actually a hotel ....
Really ...
"In the flashback to when God closed the gateway he even mentions that the MC will be fine (obvious lie) but to most of them his word is absolute" except when it comes to Azael who listens to God when it suits the plot :)) , please...

no need to insult people ... you can deliver your comment wiithout trying to insult anyone but sure whatever floats your boat I reckon, I reckon you also know your point doesn't hold that much ground if you're trying to add some insults to it...

HAHAHHAHAHA
1. one has nothing to do with the other but sure keep changing the goal :))))
2. Yes it was a well kept secret that there was an angel being tortured in hell, really well kept , it's not like all demons knew nope, a secret
3. sorry to say but you're the one with the copium :)) , you really need to play the VN again and actually read what the characters say about Emma
4. hahahah , right , that's an excellent point :)))
5. and yet MC was able .. gee wiz .. I wonder how he did that.. within a month of his freedom.. I mean .. it's not like the family spent centuries trying to do what MC did in 1 month right? hahahahaha ...

yeah man, they have tits.. I saw ... they are good looking for trash ngl...
Just to add something I don't think anyone mentioned, when they thought the MC would stay in hell for just a few hours, Emma wanted to send a healer along with those who were supposed to retrieve him, so I'm pretty sure they know he wasn't drinking mojitos next to a pool all those centuries he spent there.
 

iMucha

Newbie
Jan 3, 2021
64
414
A bit late to the party but I played the update just today.

I liked it more than the update before this one but that doesn't really say much considering how terrible that one was. The dev is obviously trying to redeem and make us like the family which, to be honest, isn't really working for me so far. One thing I will say tho, I think Emma and Raphael are still salvageable characters. It's gonna take a lot of work but they're not irredeemable imo.

Azel on the other hand is completely lost. I have no idea what the dev is gonna do with her, I'm pretty sure I won't like it considering what the dev did with her character so far, I honestly want to treat her as bad as possible and the game just won't let me. She's one of the most insufferable characters I've ever seen in a VN. And let's be honest, she's a big part of the story and is not going anywhere anytime soon :HideThePain:
 

RonaldGrand6969

Active Member
Aug 30, 2019
948
3,927
then you failed to properly express yourself and that seems to be a you problem not me...
also you're moving the goal post but whatever you say.
and since when do you need to be a "expert" to realize that acting like nothing happened and making fun of MC and so on it's not the best tactic...
you're really reaching ...

They were worried about MC , that's a good one :)))
"They were worried about the MC. " no they weren't :))) but chose to believe whatever you want
"The family is trying to reconnect with the MC in the best way that THEY believe they can" then the family is borderline retarded if not actually retarded
"In that sense they abandoned everything they knew and went to Earth, tried to save the MC but God put a guardian and removed the known gateway." someone already mentioned this... Raphael 1 of the archangels,Azel or Azael or whatever the fuck her name is , is the archangel of death and Emma the all powerful rivaling God ... the plan they come up with .. was "send Raphael and hope for the best" ? what kind of fucked up shit is that? seriously.. someone already mentioned that you can see 5 year olds trying to steal cookies with better plannning than that... come on...
"There was nothing they COULD do, that all being said; I already clarified but I guess I'll repeat myself, IF they didn't know that the MC was being tortured (which is entirely possible, but would be very hard to believe imo), then for all they knew he was just being held prisoner."
yes sure , they didn't know anything, all the demons they interacted told them that Hell is actually a water park... them being angels again didn't knnow anything about their enemies .... they were actually a hotel ....
Really ...
"In the flashback to when God closed the gateway he even mentions that the MC will be fine (obvious lie) but to most of them his word is absolute" except when it comes to Azael who listens to God when it suits the plot :)) , please...

no need to insult people ... you can deliver your comment wiithout trying to insult anyone but sure whatever floats your boat I reckon, I reckon you also know your point doesn't hold that much ground if you're trying to add some insults to it...

HAHAHHAHAHA
1. one has nothing to do with the other but sure keep changing the goal :))))
2. Yes it was a well kept secret that there was an angel being tortured in hell, really well kept , it's not like all demons knew nope, a secret
3. sorry to say but you're the one with the copium :)) , you really need to play the VN again and actually read what the characters say about Emma
4. hahahah , right , that's an excellent point :)))
5. and yet MC was able .. gee wiz .. I wonder how he did that.. within a month of his freedom.. I mean .. it's not like the family spent centuries trying to do what MC did in 1 month right? hahahahaha ...

yeah man, they have tits.. I saw ... they are good looking for trash ngl...
1. They were worried about the MC, I already said Emma had night terrors and had to take drugs and go to therapy. Raphael was worried when we disappeared. And Azel was well, she's Azel so you got me there. Should they have been MORE worried about the MC? OF COURSE, but that's only under the assumption that he was tortured and prayed for their help the entire time. The latter they didn't know about, and the former I've already stated but you didn't listen; they could have POTENTIALLY (but not likely) not known about. Which I also dived into but more when we get there.

2. So because the family not an expert on trying to reconnect with the MC they are retarded, great point.

3. Yeah the plan was pretty dogshit, but alas I think they were more limited than we gave them credit for. Let's look at the facts; the only REAL family that tried for the MC was Emma and Raphael, Azel is still a lapdog for God along with the rest of the family, Azel just wants to still try to justify her actions by living with Emma, I'm not giving her a pass on that, what she did was fucked up. So if Emma goes down there, doesn't matter. The plan in case you forgot was to NOT use powers so that GOD HIMSELF didn't detect what was going on. This was a sneaky breakout mission not a revolution, I already explained (as have the characters) what would happen if they tried to go against his wishes, it would be WAR. But God had placed a guardian, a guardian that was too strong to face WITHOUT powers, so Raphael was forced to and IMMEDIATELY God closed the rift, and sent her back, there goes their plan good luck tricking the guy who can open gateways again, or perhaps you thought the power to control living beings includes opening non living portals? Maybe, so then the second bit was Emma sent demons to go to Hell but they never returned. I'm assuming they meant possessing demons and just sent them out of their vessels? Or maybe they used black magic like the MC, but again, we don't know if the individuals with ONE power can use multiple, otherwise the MC wouldn't really be all that special now would he?

4. I'll say it yet again...it's hard for me to believe that they didn't know he was tortured, but it's possible. Sure, they may know that all the other souls are tortured, but they also know that the MC is a special case, for all they knew he was just in time out like a prison. In the flashback they mentioned he was supposed to be their for 6 hours surrounded by demons; not, "MY BOY IS BEING TORTURED FOR 6 HOURS IT'S BEEN 7 WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO HIM?" Which is why I said it's probable that God had lied and that maybe the King of Hell had kept it a secret that he was being tortured WHICH IS POSSIBLE, because he is the King, if he doesn't want info getting out and he killed all of Emma's messenger demons what makes you think anyone is going to snitch to their mortal enemy?

5. But...it is. As far as we know most of the angels aren't living with Emma right? It's said that God forbid any angels from going to see her yet SOME but not all still do. An example would be Azel, it's a divorce it's not rocket science, kids don't want to see their parents split up so it makes sense for her to not give up her "work" for Dad but still choose to live with Mom. Again Azel is one of those points where she needs a serious self reflection so I'm not going to delve into her more than I have to.

6. Yeah sorry I insulted you, bit out of line but my points still hold ground whether or not I hurt your feelings.

7. Yeah I know I was fetching for the God vs Emma thing but I like I said in my original post these were to try and justify the game as much as possible. I could be right, it would explain a lot. Or I could be wrong, which would also explain a lot. But yet again, and again, and again...our only source is the MC MENTIONING that he could use the powers against God, we have no way of know if that's actually possible. I feel like if it was that easy, Emma would've done it by now and never let the MC go to Hell in the first place.

8. I already said but I suppose I could repeat myself, it's hard to believe but possible that the angels can't use another power, they aren't the MC. Raphael mentions dark magic as bad so either they don't like it as a stigma or they literally just can't use it as it would corrupt them, it's unclear right now, hence my question marks???
 
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RonaldGrand6969

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Aug 30, 2019
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Just to add something I don't think anyone mentioned, when they thought the MC would stay in hell for just a few hours, Emma wanted to send a healer along with those who were supposed to retrieve him, so I'm pretty sure they know he wasn't drinking mojitos next to a pool all those centuries he spent there.
Ya that's a fair point, I guess the only excuse I can think of is that it was a precaution? Demons and Angels aren't exactly known to like eachother, but God had said everything would be fine on the MC's end (again obvious lie) but that's the only non plot hole excuse I can think of. Plus Raphael has always been close to the MC and Emma was always hounding on her to heal or help the MC. I don't think centuries passed in 6 hours though.
 

BTLD

Engaged Member
Sep 18, 2017
3,890
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1. They were worried about the MC, I already said Emma had night terrors and had to take drugs and go to therapy. Raphael was worried when we disappeared. And Azel was well, she's Azel so you got me there. Should they have been MORE worried about the MC? OF COURSE, but that's only under the assumption that he was tortured and prayed for their help the entire time. The latter they didn't know about, and the former I've already stated but you didn't listen; they could have POTENTIALLY (but not likely) not known about. Which I also dived onto but more when when we get there.
that's like saying an IT doesn't know how a PC works or a network... it makes 0 sense that they didn't know...
remember , like I told you before, they talked TO PLENTY of demons, they also have one who workked for them a lot of time (from what I remember) so them saying they didn't know ... well it's nothing short of bullshit...
and even if they didn't talked to demons .. it's HELL what do they think hell iis ... like I mentioned before.. a amusament park?really..
2. So because the family not an expert on trying to reconnect with the MC they are retarded, great point.
read what I said again... I said you don't need to be an expert to realize that the way they are handling is retarded therefore making the family seem retarded .. if they aren't.
3. Yeah the plan was pretty dogshit, but alas it I think they were more limited than we gave them credit for. Let's look at the facts; the only REAL family that tried for the MC was Emma and Raphael, Azel is still a lapdog for God along with the rest of the family, Azel just wants to still try to justify her actions by living with Emma, I'm not giving her a pass on that, what she did was fucked up. So if Emma goes down there, doesn't matter. The plan in case you forgot was to NOT use powers so that GOD HIMSELF didn't detect what was going on. This was a sneaky breakout mission not a revolution, I already explained (as have the characters) what would happen if they tried to go against his wishes, it would be WAR. But God had place a guardian, a guardian that was too strong to face WITHOUT powers, so Raphael was forced to and IMMEDIATELY God closed the rift, and sent her back, there goes their plan good luck tricking the guy who can open gateways again, or perhaps you thought the power to control living beings includes opening non living portals? Maybe, so then the second bit was Emma sent demons to go to Hell but they never returned. I'm assuming they meant possessing demons and just sent them out of their vessels? Or maybe they used black magic like the MC, but again, we don't know if the individuals with ONE power can use multiple, otherwise the MC wouldn't really be all that special now would he?
You keep mentioning this WAR WAR WAR, where? the only thing God said was that anyone who tries to get him out of there would suffer the same fate.. that sounds more like they would be imprisoned there ...
The plan was retarded you want to admiit or not that's your issue, Raphael could have had a distraction, I fail to see where I said they needed to kill the beast or use magic or whatever, anyone could have come to distract the beast , not engage it, just take it's focus so Raphael could pass the portal .. not doing so .. it's like I said.. borderline retarded makes Emma Raphael and Azael seeem.... braindamaged ...
it's simple tactics.. nothing advanced...
4. I'll say it yet again...it's hard for me to believe that they didn't know he was tortured, but it's possible. Sure, they may know that all the other souls are tortured, but they also know that the MC is a special case, for all they knew he was just in time out like a prison. In the flashback they mentioned he was supposed to be their for 6 hours surrounded by demons; not, "MY BOY IS BEING TORTURED FOR 6 HOURS IT'S BEEN 7 WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO HIM?" Which is why I said it's probable that God had lied and that maybe the King of Hell had kept it a secret that he was being tortured WHICH IS POSSIBLE, because he is the King, if he doesn't want info getting out and he killed all of Emma's messenger demons what makes you think anyone is going to snitch to their mortal enemy?
Demons.. so many demons they've talked to , not one of them told them how souls are tortured there?and that the fact that if an angel would be there he would totally fucked.. no chance of anything... really?.....
5. But...it is. As far as we know most of the angels aren't living with Emma right? It's said that God forbid any angels from going to see her yet SOME but not all still do. An example would be Azel, it's a divorce it's not to let science, kids don't want to see their parents split up so it makes sense for her to not give up her "work" for Dad but still choose to live with Mom. Again Azel is one of those points where she needs a serious self reflection so I'm not going to delve into her more than I have to.
So Gods word is not absolute again.... shiit seems like it's going the way the plot needs it....
Azel iis trash ... defend her how much you want and the rest of the famiily doesn't change the fact that they are trash.
6. Yeah sorry I insulted you, bit out of line but my points still hold ground whether or not I hurt your feelings.
yeah ... sounds more like a subtle insult again .. but yeah sure if you think it holds ground then .. nothing I can say will change your mind and we will be running in circles.
7. I already said but I suppose I could repeat myself, it's hard to believe but possible that the angels can't use another power, they aren't the MC. Raphael mentions dark magic as bad so either they don't like it as a stigma or they literally just can't use it as it would corrupt them, it's unclear right now, hence my question marks???
I reckon you're referring to the portals, in that case yes it's hard to believe a lot of things.
 

Xmoe22

Newbie
Mar 26, 2022
32
40
That is true. I guess the only defense is that the MC was willing to do dark magic or whatever? Wasn't there a stigma against it? Maybe there's a rule against angels using it that goes beyond principles. We know the Demons that Emma sent could do it, but we also have to remember the MC isn't really an angel anymore and he also has the special power to use other powers. If dark magic counts as that, Raphael already has healing and Emma control, so maybe they weren't able to PERSONALLY use said portals of dark magic to get there.
Well out of necessity he did use dark magic for someone he barely knew, i can't see why a mother won't do the same for her beloved son
he is still angel nothing can change that, with or without wings, if he is able to do dark magic, i can't see why a more powerful being couldn't do the same
 

Raziel_8

Engaged Member
Dec 4, 2017
3,781
9,786
I'm guessing the whole maintain the balance thing is more about keeping the peace rather than any sort of actual power struggle. If humans are valuable to both Heaven and Hell, and any war between the two would spill out into the mortal world and cause complete carnage and chaos, it would mean that angels would win a pyrrhic victory which doesn't do them any good in the long run.
That only really works if both sides would be at least remotly close in power.
If i had to do a comparison, it is as if you have the USA on one side and Luxembourg on the other and try to establish a power balance...that just doesn't work, the US could do whatever they want.

But let's say some angels break the balance, then what ?
Any kind of actions against them would lead to war and complete elimination of the demons in short time. Would they all go willingly in their own death, out of camaraderie, loyality, honor or the like, because the balance was broken and few of them died ?
Even if humans have some value to them, i really doubt it would matter if millions or even billions die (and i have real doubts the demons would manage that, even if they tried to kill as many humans as they can, bevor the angels wipe them out). Humans would need a few decades, maybe a century or two and the loses would be replenished, no time for immortals.
There's also the point that demons lack means of an easy way to go to earth in large numbers, which angels can easily do.

So far the most powerfull being of Hell and Azel clashed, the city stands, at best the college is gone, which i doubt. I just can't see how humanty would end up destroyed as collateral damage...

hat is true. I guess the only defense is that the MC was willing to do dark magic or whatever? Wasn't there a stigma against it? Maybe there's a rule against angels using it that goes beyond principles. We know the Demons that Emma sent could do it, but we also have to remember the MC isn't really an angel anymore and he also has the special power to use other powers. If dark magic counts as that, Raphael already has healing and Emma control, so maybe they weren't able to PERSONALLY use said portals of dark magic to get there.
No the MC is still an angel, just without wings and dark magic is as the name implies, magic, which has nothing to do with abilities. Even demons with no abilities can learn/use it and was ''created'' by Azazel an angel...

So what if there was a stigma ?
The family pretty much said, 'fuck you' to god, is going against his direct orders to get their son/brother back.
But dark magic is not allowed, so that's the point were we draw the line ?

A. So we can't blame the family for the way they are handling the MC as unrealistic.
No we can, i don't expect them to be perfect, not even an entirely human reaction, but their reaction is so far of the charts that it is just mind blowing dumb.

Instead of a caring and worried mother, we have a cougar in heat. Her first reaction being, drooling over his body. Her first reaction seeing the MC in underwear, scarred from top to toe, it's not shock or anything alike, but again her being horny.
And no, she acted like this before the MC had any chance to begin to copy her powers.

Azel, there is said enough about her already. But even after she sees that her brother tried to kill himself because of the shit she dumped him in, she is just being herself.
I mean, for fucks sake, she is the angel of death. After her own statement she is dealing with death and suicide for thousands of years, she should be an expert on the topic, but any help or sympathie for her brother, nope.

Raphael, expert on healing and works as doctor...same shit. Lets send the guy which just escaped Hell after torture since childhood, tried to kill himself and hates crowds to college...yeah, that's pure genius. We all know college is the most pressing issue a tortured and suicidal person could have...

Also lets ignore the MC's opinion everytime, let's force him in human society against his will, berate him at every change and act like he is the one doing them wrong if he doesn't want to go along with their crap...
This isn't just how a ''normal family'' behaves. Either it's completely retarted behavior or they are simply uncaring, as they just do what they want with little regards to the MC.

I get it, suspension of disbelief and i have normaly no problem with that, but this is just to much...

B. We can't blame the way they are acting if they truly didn't know that he was tortured for centuries.
Humans know what Hell is about, demons know how Hell is. Yet for some reason the Godess, the second most powerful and likely one of the oldest beings in existence (which is friends with powerful demons), as well as the angels, which are cosmic guardians have no clue how Hell is ? No really, how should that even work ?

Then we have the MC which says, he was tortured in Hell and Azel which notices that the MC tried to commit suicide because of the trauma he suffered... yet they still don't get that he was literally tortured in Hell ?
Again, how should that work ? They would need to be the dumbest beings in existence to not understand that at this point.

Also why would Kreon keep it a secret that the MC is favorite toy in the first place ?
It was an archangel which dropped him in Hell, on god's order no less. Then god closed of all conections with Hell and forbad any angel to go there.
He shouldn't be worried about that getting out and i don't think he is well informed about what Emma and Raphael do.
The chances that the only angel in Hell stays secret for long is close to zero imo.

C. We can't blame them for not trying to reach him.
True, we got an explanation on that. A really bad explanation, which make them look retarded, as even children are more capable of tactics then the Godess and 2 archangels are...

Like why didn't Emma not go (or god forbid all 3 of them) ? She would have ordered the guardian to stand down, go to Hell and well, Hell would be kneeling infront of her...that's the problem you have with over powerfull characters.

Same like why do they need to work ? Emma could be the leader of a religion, a country, or whatever she wants. She could go to a meeting of the rich elite and they all would be willingly give her all the money she wants....and they could spend their time on more productive things, like trying to get the MC out of Hell.

There's also no way god doesn't know where Emma is, like every angel seems to know, even the ones still working for him like Aniel...

So either god doesn't give a fuck about what Emma does, is watching it for entertainment, or he can't beat her in a confrontation, at least not without risiking his own hide.
D. And we can't blame them for not hearing his prayers.
Yeah again a strange explanation imo. God closed off Hell completely, so airtight not even prayers get out.
But for some reason demons can still come and go as they please, dark magic and human summoning among other things, so that kinda works...

In my honest opinion, both the explanation of why the prayers not worked, as well as why they couldn't reach the MC look like damage controll to me. Likely as the dev got some backlash about the family, which should be the main LI's.

As for Emma, there is no way she didn't lose any ''children'' before, angels being cosmic guardians and all.
Also Emma is normaly way colder, she only behaves completely different towards the MC, for some reason.
I think it would be more apt to say the angels are her creation, rather than her children, well with a few exeptions were she cares.
 
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eddie987

Well-Known Member
Dec 5, 2018
1,526
6,937
Ya that's a fair point, I guess the only excuse I can think of is that it was a precaution? Demons and Angels aren't exactly known to like eachother, but God had said everything would be fine on the MC's end (again obvious lie) but that's the only non plot hole excuse I can think of. Plus Raphael has always been close to the MC and Emma was always hounding on her to heal or help the MC. I don't think centuries passed in 6 hours though.
That's exactly my point. If she thought he'd might need a healer after just a few hours there, she'd have to be really and I mean really stupid to believe his centuries there were some sort of vacation. Because that's how they treat his centuries of torture. Like he just returned from spring break or something. That's what a lot of people say when their talking about their lack of remorse, empathy, whatever you want to call it. The only emotional expression we've seen so far is "horniness" from Emma and "douchines" from Azel.

And no, she didn't want to send Raphael just because they were close. She clearly knew he was in danger as you can see below.
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Illuminati00

Member
Oct 27, 2022
278
317
It's a porn game website, what are you doing here? This is one of the few games without sex...

You probably are already ignoring 99% of the games and developers here, could as well ignore the website complete...
It is an erotic visual novel, and there are more characters than the family. An important part of visual novels is choice. If the Developer makes the player/reader hate the characters, then there should be a choice not to lay with them.
 

EF.Sora

New Member
Apr 15, 2019
14
29
... I mean, the characters aren't bad. If the opening wasn't as intense, I'd be cool with them.

Also, The game itself isn't bad. It's actually good. Everyone has criticism and it's valid. I suppose people feel strongly about it because they like it.

I'll trust that the writer has a plan.
 
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3.40 star(s) 77 Votes