- Aug 16, 2018
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VN Others Completed The Little Black Bestiary: A Dragon's Treasure [Ep1 v1.0] [CyberScherzo Studios]
- Thread starter CyberScherzo
- Start date
- Aug 17, 2017
- 132
- 355
From what i can tell this is a passion project with aspirations. For now progress will probably be slow as this can't be a primary source of income for any of the people involved but since the lead person involved seem to really care i'd assume they're still plugging away.
This project, once again, shows exactly why i do never donate money on patreon or kickstarter and such.
I can understand all the kind of problems that the developer has. I really do.
But i, being and honest and honourable man, would close the Patreon page of the project until i fix my problems and "really resume the game's development."
Read the post the developer wrote. Let me simply quote his first point
" 1. So first of all, not to make excuses but something to keep in mind with our admittedly slow pace is that this series is a side project for everyone involved and we all have either full time jobs or even other projects. (Examples: I have a day job, and Sacb0y whom did the art on Isabel's episode has like 4-5 other game projects he's on, which you can also find on these forums) I'm honestly still learning my way around managing this type of project, so I hope I can become faster and more efficient as I continue to learn the best way to go about everything. "
He admits that it is a side project, he admits that they have little time because of jobs and other things, and he also admit that " he is still learning my way around managing this type of project, so I hope I can become faster and more efficient as I continue to learn the best way to go about everything. "
But nonetheless, the patreon page is open and they get the money each month.
Why do i have this feeling that they could be mocking people? I'm not saying that they do, it is just a legittimate question that i have in my mind.
If you value and respect your followers, close the patreon until real development resume again.
Else, people could ask themselves where are their money going.
" 8. Just for the record: I've personally made zero profits from the patreon and every bit of the money so far has been put towards art commissions, PLUS a sizeable chunk of my own money. "
Nice words. But anyone could say that. As Latin says: Verba volant, scripta manent. Words fly away. Even i can say that tomorrow i'll give away 1 million dollars.
Sadly, when money are involved, people need a little more than words to be assured that their donations are not wasted.
You do things or you do not do things, but if you start accepting money then you have to take responsibility of your actions.
I can understand all the kind of problems that the developer has. I really do.
But i, being and honest and honourable man, would close the Patreon page of the project until i fix my problems and "really resume the game's development."
Read the post the developer wrote. Let me simply quote his first point
" 1. So first of all, not to make excuses but something to keep in mind with our admittedly slow pace is that this series is a side project for everyone involved and we all have either full time jobs or even other projects. (Examples: I have a day job, and Sacb0y whom did the art on Isabel's episode has like 4-5 other game projects he's on, which you can also find on these forums) I'm honestly still learning my way around managing this type of project, so I hope I can become faster and more efficient as I continue to learn the best way to go about everything. "
He admits that it is a side project, he admits that they have little time because of jobs and other things, and he also admit that " he is still learning my way around managing this type of project, so I hope I can become faster and more efficient as I continue to learn the best way to go about everything. "
But nonetheless, the patreon page is open and they get the money each month.
Why do i have this feeling that they could be mocking people? I'm not saying that they do, it is just a legittimate question that i have in my mind.
If you value and respect your followers, close the patreon until real development resume again.
Else, people could ask themselves where are their money going.
" 8. Just for the record: I've personally made zero profits from the patreon and every bit of the money so far has been put towards art commissions, PLUS a sizeable chunk of my own money. "
Nice words. But anyone could say that. As Latin says: Verba volant, scripta manent. Words fly away. Even i can say that tomorrow i'll give away 1 million dollars.
Sadly, when money are involved, people need a little more than words to be assured that their donations are not wasted.
You do things or you do not do things, but if you start accepting money then you have to take responsibility of your actions.
- Aug 17, 2017
- 132
- 355
Ehh its a little more nuanced than that Patreon isn't a bussiness kiosk its supposed to be a place where artists and creators can ask for financial support to help them produce whatever it is they produce. To that end a lot of patreons are kind of like guitar players on the sidewalk accepting whatever dollar bills get tossed their way. On the other hand a lot of patreons are set up as an almost subscription like service where your money is spent to buy access to whatever they're producing. There's nothing wrong with either really as long as you value what you're spending your money on; some people legitimately just want to charitably show some support to an artist they're a fan of other people like yourself expect their money to be treated as a business transaction.
Since my patreon feed is hidden to play it safe because of strict rules on public content, and ya'll can't read the status update I posted a couple days ago, here's the highlights:
I really, really *hate* giving solid dates, because I'm still quite bad at accurately estimating that sort of thing, I know how badly people react when you miss those dates and disappoint them, and I don't want to throw any of my team-mates/partners under the bus if the reason I'm behind on a deadline is waiting for their chunk of the work- I'd rather take the responsibility myself.
That said: I am on track to release the next episode late may/early June. The scope of it will be similar to the current one with Isabel, but with more CGs and featuring a new character. And the episode with the fairy from earlier should come out sometime later this year.
Just this last weekend, I got the last batch of art needed to complete the next episode. Here's a cropped, and clothed version of one of those CGs, which is the same preview posted to said Patreon update:
It is thanks to the generosity and support of our patrons that I was able to afford this batch of CGs so I am incredibly grateful. If I suspended my patreon I would mostly become limited to producing a text-only game. The money at our current funding level allows me to afford 1-2 professional quality art commissions each month.
The script for the next episode still is not complete, but at this point, with the artwork in hand and most of the framework in place if I miss that estimate for this release it's pretty much squarely my fault which I why I can give that estimate now. I'm personally focusing on this and plugging away pretty hard to get something released next month. Note that said release is going to be a potentially buggy 1.0 release so the final more polished one may be a few more weeks after that.
Also, before someone calls me out on it, I know having the art *before* the script is kinda bad form and moving forward I'm going to try to have the scripts and dialogue mostly done ahead of time which should ultimately improve the workflow a bit.
I really, really *hate* giving solid dates, because I'm still quite bad at accurately estimating that sort of thing, I know how badly people react when you miss those dates and disappoint them, and I don't want to throw any of my team-mates/partners under the bus if the reason I'm behind on a deadline is waiting for their chunk of the work- I'd rather take the responsibility myself.
That said: I am on track to release the next episode late may/early June. The scope of it will be similar to the current one with Isabel, but with more CGs and featuring a new character. And the episode with the fairy from earlier should come out sometime later this year.
Just this last weekend, I got the last batch of art needed to complete the next episode. Here's a cropped, and clothed version of one of those CGs, which is the same preview posted to said Patreon update:
It is thanks to the generosity and support of our patrons that I was able to afford this batch of CGs so I am incredibly grateful. If I suspended my patreon I would mostly become limited to producing a text-only game. The money at our current funding level allows me to afford 1-2 professional quality art commissions each month.
The script for the next episode still is not complete, but at this point, with the artwork in hand and most of the framework in place if I miss that estimate for this release it's pretty much squarely my fault which I why I can give that estimate now. I'm personally focusing on this and plugging away pretty hard to get something released next month. Note that said release is going to be a potentially buggy 1.0 release so the final more polished one may be a few more weeks after that.
Also, before someone calls me out on it, I know having the art *before* the script is kinda bad form and moving forward I'm going to try to have the scripts and dialogue mostly done ahead of time which should ultimately improve the workflow a bit.
Yup. Here in Italy we have a figure of speech that i can roughly translate as " Not even a dog wag its tail for free " (because it does so after you give it food ).
Meaning noone does nothing for free. Unless you are part of the family.
But outside of your family, you are in the jungle. Respect the others, don't do to other people what you do not desire that could be done to you...but at the same time, don't be naive.
Nothing is free. I work to earn my wage, so if you want my money you have to give me a solid reason, you have to earn the right to ask for my money.
P.S. that's why i would think twice before doing a patreon. I would feel the pressure to keep a schedule of frequent updates, because else i would feel bad and feel that i do not deserve the money patrons give me each month.
If you think every patreon funded project out there is a scam designed to get your money (in usually reasonable amounts) for no real return then that is on you. You can be skeptical. I know I am. I don't support patreons (I have supported several Kickstarter projects though) because to me they would feel like a subscription to something that isn't guaranteed to release when I want it to (which would always be RIGHT NOW anyway). But you can also keep it to yourself and stop belittling people who use them and aren't getting a bunch of money from it.
There is a huge difference between a small passion (side) project like this one that at most hopes to earn $500 a month (about what I might pay in utilities each month) and is only currently earning less than half that (what I spend on groceries and other bi-monthly expenses), and a project like Summertime Saga that is currently earning $56k per month (more than I make in an entire YEAR at my full-time job). Between the two of them Bestiary hasn't put out another episode for almost a year, and Summertime Saga has taken 6 months between two different content releases. Something feels wrong with that.
Are people happy with either project? Probably not. But the thing to keep in mind is that patreons that don't require a subscription to download the stuff they develop are OPTIONAL. I don't feel bad that these visual novels are gonna take forever, cause I'm not actually doing anything to help them get done faster. So I have no right to complain. Just like I don't feel bad for the 20,000 patreons of Summertime Saga who are "wasting" their money on content that is taking way too long to release, because I'm not one of them. But in both cases, their creators aren't gonna charge me anything to play their game when they're done even though I never contributed a dollar. And for that, I am thankful. And you should be too.
And if you don't like it then there are thousands of already completed VN's out there that you can buy with your (oh so important) earned wage.
Yes, and... ?
Your point is ?
Careful, because i have a strong habit of caring only for my family and friends. Bytes on the net are the last of my thoughts.
Sounds like "Well, I can't think of a good way to argue against what you just said so I'll just state I don't care so it seems like I didn't actually lose face."
Also don't tell me to be careful. I do stuff on the internet. I LIVE DANGEROUSLY.
Or maybe i do not want to waste my time with suspiciously new accounts like yours that, in their first post, critic someone.
On a side note, oh childish one, if you like to live dangerously please be kind and do that somewhere else. Stop bothering me.
I am sure you will find plenty of people who will love to hear your stories. Afterall...you do stuff on the internet. So cool.
Goodbye
- Jun 5, 2017
- 5,059
- 12,589
Sorry.
Sadly I gotta admit my takeaway isn't "Work Faster" but "Stop trying to guess ETAs" because it turns out I'm still not experienced enough to be good at figuring those out. (Or good enough at game dev and project management to speed it up. Though I'm still working on ways to improve our workflow and coordination)
So, TBH, a massive amount of time has gone into this minigame, it's taken much more time and effort than I realized it would. For example, I Just spent the last two hours trying to figure out a bug that was making alternate character colors not work right. And I'm pretty sure that's a detail that isn't enhancing the part of this game people are actually looking forward to; but I was really into this video game strip bet minigame idea and want to get it as close to perfect as I can before release.
I am getting pretty close to polishing it off though. I found a workaround for said previously mentioned bug, and right now I'm integrating the opponent AI for the minigame with the dialogue options for that interaction system these buttons at the bottom of the screenshot hook into. There's also a couple more scenes to finish writing the script/dialogue for. So yeah, as usual I'm not nearly as fast at this thing as I would like, but it's still rolling along, and will be out soon(tm).
Sadly I gotta admit my takeaway isn't "Work Faster" but "Stop trying to guess ETAs" because it turns out I'm still not experienced enough to be good at figuring those out. (Or good enough at game dev and project management to speed it up. Though I'm still working on ways to improve our workflow and coordination)
So, TBH, a massive amount of time has gone into this minigame, it's taken much more time and effort than I realized it would. For example, I Just spent the last two hours trying to figure out a bug that was making alternate character colors not work right. And I'm pretty sure that's a detail that isn't enhancing the part of this game people are actually looking forward to; but I was really into this video game strip bet minigame idea and want to get it as close to perfect as I can before release.
I am getting pretty close to polishing it off though. I found a workaround for said previously mentioned bug, and right now I'm integrating the opponent AI for the minigame with the dialogue options for that interaction system these buttons at the bottom of the screenshot hook into. There's also a couple more scenes to finish writing the script/dialogue for. So yeah, as usual I'm not nearly as fast at this thing as I would like, but it's still rolling along, and will be out soon(tm).
Just wanted to add for anyone following this thread,
The new episode is finally just about done.
I'll probably see if I can make a new thread for it here since it's basically a whole new game on a new engine.
The new episode is finally just about done.
You must be registered to see the links
. I'm still polishing it up, fixing typos, adding sound, tweaking AI, that kind of stuff. Once I'm done with that, the public release will happen later this month. (Like mid-month. In 1-2 weeks. ish.) Should hopefully drop alongside an HTML5 online version too. I'll probably see if I can make a new thread for it here since it's basically a whole new game on a new engine.