- May 6, 2023
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- Thread starter Ceolag
- Start date
- Jul 17, 2021
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If we do, we need the Furusiyya added in also. As I said above.We can agree to disagree. I have no problem with that. I'm happy we are talking about other aspects of the game and not just Kaija. That was my hope anyway, to stir some conversation.
Now you're talking!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hospitallers, Knights of Malta, I reckon bring them all back.
- Dec 4, 2017
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Nah, they are just as missguided and corrupted than the templars...
- May 6, 2023
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We do? Considering their history, they might cause friction with the European Orders. Tensions may rise. They did have cool horse armor though.
- Jul 17, 2021
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We do. Then we can also bring in the Djinns as a secondary to the infernals.
- Jul 12, 2020
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Go down on Kaija!
Shit...no...down with Kaija!
Shit...no...down with Kaija!
I total was expecting to simp for Kaija today and call in Joshy for some backup in the simping been awhile
- Mar 25, 2021
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- Oct 10, 2022
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Altaïr Ibn-LaʼAhad and Ezio Auditore da Firenze, kind of Dark Templars or Assassins.And who are those guys? Because if you say Dark Templars, I'm gonna lmao at you. Furusiyya might be a better choice? Probably not.
- Oct 10, 2022
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- Oct 10, 2022
- 4,349
- 7,727
We do. Then we can also bring in the Djinns as a secondary to the infernals.
This is why I love this thread, I had no idea what is Furussiya or Djinn(except Witcher version) and learned something cool.
I second this.
They are, that's the beauty of it. Let them fight each other we may get rid of both sides.
I need a few more updates then all I will do be that.We can agree to disagree
Now we are talking.Now you're talking!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hospitallers, Knights of Malta, I reckon bring them all back.
- Oct 10, 2022
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Then they should stop giving speeches about being protector of humanity, should not they? Not caring and not being able to do, completely two different things anyway. They simply don't care about those people, they see them as collateral damage, remember how Kaija acts when MC wanted to help that guy at the Neverwhere. She simply didn't care. It is safe to assume they never tried to fight against criminals. Also this does support my point, they don't serve any meaningful purpose except protecting the vile ways of Neverwhere.
I think he is neither a meathead nor a moron. He seems to me clever enough to play the politics within Templars. Though I think he sees himself better than he actually is and whoever the third party is using him. So I believe either willingly or not he is a traitor. For the other leaders I don't think Linnae is one, even though she does not like Neverwhere she is loyal to the fault to Templars. I think other woman is not a candidate either, she seemed a person without hidden agenda. Though we have very little interaction with her to make an opinion on her. The other guy seemed suspicious also, he may be another traitor. Maybe he was the third party, using Jason Statham even without his knowledge. We really need more information about it.
- Jul 17, 2021
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Glad I could teach you something new.
- Jul 17, 2021
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Well, that pic of the undead Pope threw me off. I don't remember there bein an undead Pope.Altaïr Ibn-LaʼAhad and Ezio Auditore da Firenze, kind of Dark Templars or Assassins.
- May 6, 2023
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They should but they believe they are what they say they are. Even though we can see them for what they have become. As you have said, cult mindset. They have "special knowledge", "only they know 'the real truth' so they are above everyone else", and so on. Its all very seductive and tragic. Hence why I don't hate them, its just sad to see what they have become from what the Templars use to be.
Perhaps its Kaija (just joking, I couldn't resist). It could be none of the Templar Council are involved and a third party has just taken advantage of their corruption. I think Fiona's family will have a role in there somewhere. Although unleashing demons on the world doesn't seem like a very sane thing to do or very beneficial to anyone. It will be interesting to see how things evolve.
- Sep 20, 2018
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Could she be? Sure. Is she? I have no idea. With the scant information we have it's impossible to rule anyone out as the mastermind behind the demons. We've barely met two of the major players in a setting that presumably has a large number of players in it (since one of the few things we know about Neverwhere is that it connects to more than nine worlds). We can't even tell if said mastermind was working for the demons (trying to eliminate a dangerous mage) or against them (trying to get Durandal into the hands of the MC). So it's all guesswork.
If I had to guess, though, I'd say no. Linnae's situation seems like an adequate explanation for her actions so far. Yes, she's been more sympathetic to the MC than the others, but that wouldn't be surprising if she was a friend of the MC's parents. (And frankly it's not like her respect for the MC is uncommon among the other Templars we've seen, either.) Likewise it's easy to see how being booted from the Council doesn't faze her: from what we've seen the Council is a thankless waste of time. No one can agree on anything and they were apparently reliant on the MC's dad to provide any leadership. Now that he's back, who wouldn't want to be rid of the whole thing?
I think we'll have to see how Linnae takes to life after the Council before we should get suspicious. If she's still keeping a close eye on Templar/elf politics or tries to get the MC to support her own agenda, that would be the mark of someone who should have hated walking away from the Council. If she's happy to run errands and train recruits, it's more likely she's on the up and up. That's my $0.02, anyway.
Eh, moron seems like exactly the right word for William. I'm willing to be sympathetic to the ruthlessly pragmatic approach, especially since William seems to lead whatever passes for the Templar's military, but his proposal is ridiculous. He wants an all out attack on the elves (the same elves whose queen scares him shitless even on neutral ground!) to rescue a prisoner (whose location he doesn't know), all on the grounds that if they fail it's no worse than disbanding the Templars - an option everyone already rejected as unacceptable. I mean... wow.
That's a level of incompetence even Arnold J. Rimmer couldn't sink to: his "daylight charge across the minefield" might have had a horrific body count, but it was still a successful feint for the real plan. William, apparently, wants to get everyone killed ASAP because he's convinced Templar leadership is so incompetent that it's only a matter of time before they blunder into accepting the elves' ultimatum.
The Templars as shield to humanity is the party line, but even with our limited information we already know it's at best partially true. The Templars only control a portion of the connections between Earth and Neverwhere, and we know they can't even monitor others a short distance away. We're also told that people of public interest "paint a huge target on [their] back" if they make obvious use of Neverwhere as a means of transportation, so clearly there are one or more forces besides the Templars who also act as gatewardens for Earth. Whatever protection the Templars provide is either limited in scope or very selective.
That doesn't mean they aren't providing some sort of protection or that there services mustn't be valuable, but we currently lack the details to evaluate how - or even if - the Templars should be reformed. Hopefully now that the MC's father is safe we can finally start digging for some solid answers before we let the elves bombard us with their own propaganda.
The elves demanded the Templars close their own connections to Neverwhere. There's nothing to indicate closing ALL connections was possible, or even that the elves would want that.
Also, it's important to note that, at least from what Kaija said, it's someone else who kills the people that talk about Neverwhere; the Templars just know how to keep a low enough profile to avoid getting killed themselves. While I'd take anything Kaija says with a hefty dose of salt, it does fit what we've seen. The Templars are barely able to escort the MC across town, I don't see them enforcing a global masquerade.
- May 6, 2023
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That is a pretty comprehensive assessment.Could she be? Sure. Is she? I have no idea. With the scant information we have it's impossible to rule anyone out as the mastermind behind the demons. We've barely met two of the major players in a setting that presumably has a large number of players in it (since one of the few things we know about Neverwhere is that it connects to more than nine worlds). We can't even tell if said mastermind was working for the demons (trying to eliminate a dangerous mage) or against them (trying to get Durandal into the hands of the MC). So it's all guesswork.
If I had to guess, though, I'd say no. Linnae's situation seems like an adequate explanation for her actions so far. Yes, she's been more sympathetic to the MC than the others, but that wouldn't be surprising if she was a friend of the MC's parents. (And frankly it's not like her respect for the MC is uncommon among the other Templars we've seen, either.) Likewise it's easy to see how being booted from the Council doesn't faze her: from what we've seen the Council is a thankless waste of time. No one can agree on anything and they were apparently reliant on the MC's dad to provide any leadership. Now that he's back, who wouldn't want to be rid of the whole thing?
I think we'll have to see how Linnae takes to life after the Council before we should get suspicious. If she's still keeping a close eye on Templar/elf politics or tries to get the MC to support her own agenda, that would be the mark of someone who should have hated walking away from the Council. If she's happy to run errands and train recruits, it's more likely she's on the up and up. That's my $0.02, anyway.
Eh, moron seems like exactly the right word for William. I'm willing to be sympathetic to the ruthlessly pragmatic approach, especially since William seems to lead whatever passes for the Templar's military, but his proposal is ridiculous. He wants an all out attack on the elves (the same elves whose queen scares him shitless even on neutral ground!) to rescue a prisoner (whose location he doesn't know), all on the grounds that if they fail it's no worse than disbanding the Templars - an option everyone already rejected as unacceptable. I mean... wow.
That's a level of incompetence even Arnold J. Rimmer couldn't sink to: his "daylight charge across the minefield" might have had a horrific body count, but it was still a successful feint for the real plan. William, apparently, wants to get everyone killed ASAP because he's convinced Templar leadership is so incompetent that it's only a matter of time before they blunder into accepting the elves' ultimatum.
The Templars as shield to humanity is the party line, but even with our limited information we already know it's at best partially true. The Templars only control a portion of the connections between Earth and Neverwhere, and we know they can't even monitor others a short distance away. We're also told that people of public interest "paint a huge target on [their] back" if they make obvious use of Neverwhere as a means of transportation, so clearly there are one or more forces besides the Templars who also act as gatewardens for Earth. Whatever protection the Templars provide is either limited in scope or very selective.
That doesn't mean they aren't providing some sort of protection or that there services mustn't be valuable, but we currently lack the details to evaluate how - or even if - the Templars should be reformed. Hopefully now that the MC's father is safe we can finally start digging for some solid answers before we let the elves bombard us with their own propaganda.
The elves demanded the Templars close their own connections to Neverwhere. There's nothing to indicate closing ALL connections was possible, or even that the elves would want that.
Also, it's important to note that, at least from what Kaija said, it's someone else who kills the people that talk about Neverwhere; the Templars just know how to keep a low enough profile to avoid getting killed themselves. While I'd take anything Kaija says with a hefty dose of salt, it does fit what we've seen. The Templars are barely able to escort the MC across town, I don't see them enforcing a global masquerade.
- Oct 10, 2022
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It is interesting that you count things what makes me hate them and then you ended it with I don't hate them. I am amused to see, how subjective opinions can be.
Yeah, it could be none of the Templars. We just assume there is a traitor among them. I also think Fiona's family will be involved but I am not sure they'll have direct effect on this.
I kinda missed that part if they only demanded closing their own connection. Iirc, they demand they will close all the known connections. I may have misremember it though.
I don't say they are killing people over it but they do turn blind eye to it. Also I would not cross out that they'd kill if it serves them. What they do and what they say, is plain oxymoron. What you are saying is basically what I am saying in that regards.
They could not transport Grand Master's son within city, they are not aware even to the closest connections, they are not protecting anyone but they are claiming they are protector of humanity, they are the righteous ones etc. Either do what you are claiming or shut the fuck up, right? I don't say they do enforce a global masquerade, though they are helping it, I don't think they are even capable of throwing a house warming party let alone a global masquerade.
Thank you for your opinions, it really is a good one.
- Sep 20, 2018
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This is how she phrased her demand. I don't think it changes based on our actions, but I haven't looked at the code so I could be wrong.
I see things slightly differently in that I don't necessarily think the Templars are turning a blind eye. It really depends on who's doing the killing and why. If the combined governments of Earth are hellbent on enforcing the secrecy, it's entirely possible the Templars couldn't protect people from them anymore than they could rescue the Grand Master from the elves: they might make a good showing for a moment, but they'd be swiftly wiped out and then whoever they were protecting would be killed anyway.
Likewise, just because they aren't protecting humanity's right to know about Neverwhere, it doesn't follow that they aren't protecting humanity at all. It could be that the Templars view their role as protecting humanity against specifically supernatural threats. Things like demons or elves they'll fight, but what humans do to each other is beyond their mandate. This would certainly fit in with Kaija's insistence she needed to fight the Hellspawn in chapter 4. If true, we could debate the morality of such a view, but they may still provide a valuable service even if it's not the one we'd prefer.
Again, we just don't know enough to judge, at least IMHO.
Thanks, I appreciate your views as well.
- Sep 6, 2020
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Hey everyone,
this Dev Log will be shorter than the last ones since this week has been pretty normal.
No stories of me getting ill, hard disks dying, and so on. Sorry, not sorry. ;-)
Although the week was pretty busy with work (end/start of the month usually is) and a bit of family stuff, the progress on the game was still decent.
On the render side, I got 84 static renders and 1 more animation done.
Script-wise, I'm sitting at 1300 lines which means 199 new lines this week... damn, let me add a useless comment line somewhere real quick...
The total numbers are:
405 static renders
3 animations
1300 lines in the script file
We're getting closer to the main part of Chapter 5.
Next week I'm going to work on the 2... animation-heavy scenes that are left before we get to the main part.
And the Steam Next Fest starts on Monday. The demo has already been tested and released. I hope there won't be any errors with that version so I can focus on the Chapter 5 development.
That's it for today, have a nice weekend.
Cheers,
Ceolag
