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VN Ren'Py The Neverwhere Tales [v0.5.0.4p] [Ceolag]

4.40 star(s) 56 Votes

Teal80

Newbie
Dec 27, 2017
49
104
So here is my controversial take after 30 seconds of thought late at night with a beer in hand:

It seems to me that the Templars are a waste of space and time. They are not really protecting the Earth from anything.

From discussions with the Alfar, it is clear that they cannot win against the Templars due to the threat of human (non-Templar) retaliation. It is also clear that whoever wants to get rid of the Alfar is not capable of taking the Alfar on in a head-on fight and needs the Templars to weaken them.

Therefore, this mysterious third party is also too weak to seriously threaten the Earth, and no other factions shown so far are capable of being a realistic threat.

Templars exist for the sake of existing. Their archaic rituals and (a)moral stance serves nothing but their own egos.
This makes much of the plot rather pointless. The MC is not going to save the world. At best, he could save the Templars and/or Alfar, which some may consider a suboptimal outcome.
Given what's been said in the Q&A, the MC is not going to be pivotal in the outcome anyway.

I'm still going to enjoy the journey.
 

curlyjoe

New Member
Dec 18, 2022
3
0
Providing you attained enough [Medb LP] then she invites you to the funeral...all becomes clear there...
To expand in this, at the funeral, Medb says, "Namaari, min ethiram ainu," which translates to "Farewell, my beloved daughter."

Thanks to both of you. I did attend the funeral but didn't understand any of the elvish spoken there or know how to translate it. I never thought of looking back through saves for the few words of elvish the mc had been taught in lessons then trying to piece the funeral service together from those. Either I'm displaying the lack of intellect of an avn gamer or was grieving the loss of the person who I thought had the best character arc in chapter 5.
 
Last edited:

Pixillin'

Member
Oct 8, 2024
172
143
I admittedly spent way more time than most would trying to figure out their language. I was able to figure out "Farewell, my ??? daughter" from previous info and context, but did have to look up the last word since it's not used anywhere else.
I didn't get it either initially - someone explained it to me. The English translation should really be added in parenthesis or something because not many are going to figure it out on their own.
 

Pixillin'

Member
Oct 8, 2024
172
143
So here is my controversial take after 30 seconds of thought late at night with a beer in hand:

It seems to me that the Templars are a waste of space and time. They are not really protecting the Earth from anything.

From discussions with the Alfar, it is clear that they cannot win against the Templars due to the threat of human (non-Templar) retaliation. It is also clear that whoever wants to get rid of the Alfar is not capable of taking the Alfar on in a head-on fight and needs the Templars to weaken them.

Therefore, this mysterious third party is also too weak to seriously threaten the Earth, and no other factions shown so far are capable of being a realistic threat.

Templars exist for the sake of existing. Their archaic rituals and (a)moral stance serves nothing but their own egos.
This makes much of the plot rather pointless. The MC is not going to save the world. At best, he could save the Templars and/or Alfar, which some may consider a suboptimal outcome.
Given what's been said in the Q&A, the MC is not going to be pivotal in the outcome anyway.

I'm still going to enjoy the journey.
I concur, mostly, except you are way more fond of the Templars than I am. To me the greatest threat to humanity is the Templars. If Ceo did an Acting Lessons and you could only save one, I'd make sure Jess wasn't there and then maybe snag a nice coffee mug on my way out.
 
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ename144

Engaged Member
Sep 20, 2018
3,420
14,167
It will be hard to find a Li in this that I like more than Finn.
Fear not, I'm sure there will be plenty more hotheads eager to kill the MC. Some of them are bound to be cute, too. :p


You mean the kind of naive simpleton who is lied to and manipulated by his parents and fake girlfriend for his entire life by then sticks with them because the fake girlfriend has a nice ass? The kind of naive simpleton who is cool with his parents painting a target on his back and then giving him a "bodyguard" who is never around, because he thinks it might get him laid? That kind of naive simpleton?
To try to be fair to the MC's parents (shudder), it's not entirely clear how much of a target the MC actually had on his back. He made it into early adulthood without any major incidents, and appears to have been off the Alfar's radar until he went to Neverwhere. Jessica, meanwhile, still seems to be safe even after the latest revelations.

There are still a lot of unknowns, of course, but at the moment it seems like the danger to the MC is a fairly recent development, likely the "third party" that's trying to provoke a war. I'm not sure how much blame the MC's parents should bear for failing to anticipate a future threat; it really depends on details we just don't know yet.

Besides, there's plenty of stuff we already know they can be blamed for; no need to jump the gun looking for additional grievances.


I'd like to see another Li who is some kind of reporter / journalist. One of my problems with the Templars isn't even what they did to MC, or Kajia, or even Finn (though all of that is still there). It's that they ... this secret order of a few hundred people ... have decided that humanity doesn't need to know about magic and all of the other creatures they share a planet with because people "couldn't handle it" or whatever. They openly admit that they can't save everyone who is attacked but still don't think that people should know about the threat(s) - even though going public would probably increase recruitment (not necessarily in the Templars but there would be more people willing to fight back against the threats). I don't think the Templars (who nobody f'in elected or appointed) get to make that call all by themselves.
Why is it solely the Templars' responsibility to inform the public about Neverwhere? Why them and not, say, Fiona (and her family), or Kari and the other valkyries? Kaija explicitly says people who call attention to Neverwhere - Templars included - paint a huge target on their back.
Kaija_Neverwhere_secrecy_01.jpg Kaija_Neverwhere_secrecy_02.jpg Kaija_Neverwhere_secrecy_03.jpg
Obviously Kaija could be lying, but if she isn't then the decision not to spill the beans might be justified. It would depend on who is enforcing the masquerade, their reasons for doing so, and what means they have available to prevent leaks.
 

Elduriel

Forum Fanatic
Donor
Mar 28, 2021
4,132
7,247
Then I would advise people to pay more attention then, given Medb explains what ainu means to the MC earlier in the story :ROFLMAO: You are correct though, I'm perhaps (stupidly I guess) giving the average AVN 'player' far too much credit.
even then, just the word daughter without further context in a sentence could mean any number of things. Here: "She was a wonderful daughter and her parents will miss her very much"... if all you understood was daughter from that, it doesn't automatically makes Finn her daughter.
 

Maviarab

Dark Lord of the Coffee
Donor
Jul 12, 2020
10,610
24,864
even then, just the word daughter without further context in a sentence could mean any number of things. Here: "She was a wonderful daughter and her parents will miss her very much"... if all you understood was daughter from that, it doesn't automatically makes Finn her daughter.
As we get along Eld and I like you...it's probably better to agree to disagree and not end up offending each other should we continue with this.

So moving on, let's get back to bashing the Stathanator and Kaija ;)
 

DevinHesi

Engaged Member
Uploader
Oct 29, 2021
3,640
29,828


Hey everyone,

time for the 2nd part of the Q&A answers.

After the last update, the story lore is getting Vivid and also new
types of monsters and creatures are being introduced so are you also going to dive deep into their origins and lore and characters arc or are these characters just side characters with less addition in the main lore?


There's no universal answer to that and to be honest, the role I have planned now might change in the future.
For example, the mention of the Svartálfar (Dark Elves) was just a side note when I wrote the scene but now I'm thinking about implementing more lore for them in Book 2.
I'm also thinking about implementing some kind of "Lore Compendium" in the game (not much else to say here, it's just an idea for now) where I can put stuff like that without "cluttering" the game with too much information.

I suppose, while there won't be an 'official' ending...will there be some type of ending resolution for those who stuck by a side-girl?

No plans as of now. That might change depending on player feedback but it won't be a "full" ending. And it depends on my plans with the side character. For example, if I intend to bring it back in later Chapters at all.

How do you structure the work on your project? Or to put it more precisely: is there a kind of schedule that you follow and sometimes work on code, sometimes on graphics, etc.?

I work chronologically most of the time. That means the order in which you play the Chapters is the order in which I get them done throughout the development.
I don't like to "jump" between scenes because usually my mind is in the scene, the characters, what happens around them, and so on.
Working on a scene usually means everything: coding, writing, and setting up renders/animations, for the reason mentioned above.

If you were back at the beginning of the project, what would you do differently from the start, be it the story, your way of working or whatever?

The main thing I'd do differently is not start the game with a girlfriend.
At least if the relationship isn't the main focus of the story/game.
Other than that... I'd get more experience with the render engine of your choice before starting to work on the game.
Yes, a good story/writing can carry not-so-good visuals to some extent.
But not to the same extent that great visuals can carry a shit story, especially early on. I'd try to get both good from the start.

Coffee or tea?

Coffee, of course. Tea is only drinkable if you put rum in it.
And don't you dare to lock my thread again with your false information. :p


Has it been a conscious decision to not join tons of other AVN servers to share your work? Or is it more due to a lack of confidence to advertise yourself? Or am I just on all the wrong servers?

You're probably not on the wrong servers. I'm only on a few servers and even less actively reading them. I barely have enough time to keep track of my own Discord server let alone other servers.
So yes, it has been a conscious decision to focus my available time on development instead of promotion.
On top of that, I suck at self-promotion. :)


Would you like more of us fans to help you promote your game (I already do) in the other AVN servers?

I won't say no to free promotion. ;-)
That said, I don't expect anybody to do my work for me. I'm aware that I should promote more, but as I said above, I hate it. And since this is still a part-time project, I'd like to spend the limited time I have on things I don't hate.


And will you ever do occasional cross-promotion with other devs to get more exposure for your game?

I am/was part of a few Steam bundles.
Outside that, I'm not saying no to cross-promotion but I'll only do it if I played and liked the game for the cross-promo... and here comes the problem: I don't have a lot of time to play other games ;-)


Did you get DPC (Acting Lessons) level death threats or similar disturbing words from fans after killing a possible LI in peoples eyes?

Not yet. At least I didn't find it that bad. Maybe I need to kill more characters...

What do the Templars actually do? (and comparable questions)

I'd like to keep those answers within the game.
That doesn't mean there's no point in asking because often enough questions come up that are absolutely clear to me but not to the player.
So keep asking stuff like that and I'll try my best to answer those questions throughout the story.
Just the Q&A might be the wrong format to do it :)


Ailill says he has had over 900 years practice using a bow, but we're also told he was alive during Ponce de Leon's attempt to colonize Alfheimr. That occurred around 500 years ago on Earth, which would be the equivalent of ~3500 earth-years ago in Alfheimr's subjective timeline. Does this mean archery is a fairly recent hobby for Ailill, or has he somehow spent the bulk of his time outside Alfheimr despite being over 900 years old?

In general, when Álfar speak about years, they refer to years on Earth.
So in that case, he's talking about 900 years on Earth.
I probably need to make that clearer through dialogue whenever an Álfr speaks about timeframes.


Looking at ⁠story-discussions-spoilers , there seems to be some confusion about the difference between the four main LIs we see summarised at the end of every chapter, and the various other potential LIs we see in game. Could you explain a bit more about what the difference is?

There are no other "potential LIs." The 4 girls on the summary are the LIs.
Everyone else isn't an LI and won't be an LI (at least in Book 1). They'll have a bit of screen time here and there or provide "distraction" but nothing more.
The 4 LIs all have a connection to the main story, the rest just have "touch points" at best and the 4 LIs will have an epilogue (notice how I didn't write "ending" because some people will misinterpret that) at the end of the game.


I get the distinct impression that magic is rare, but we don't know if it's hereditary or not. Without going into spoilers, have there been any serious magicians among humans to the point of, say, even approaching being an equal with someone like Medb? I, personally, like having magic for the MC with the foreshadowing already done, but I'd like to know if there's precedent for it.

Magic is rare. Human mages do exist and they can potentially reach the levels of someone like Medb but keep in mind that Medb has a lot more (life-)time to train her powers than a human.


Are the LI's getting the traction that you have expected?

Some are getting even more traction than expected :p
In general, yes. At least for now when a good part of their stories is still left to be told.


Are there some things that fell flat or are there some plot points/characters that you expected to have more of an impact on the players/community?

Overall, no. Some things took a bit longer than I expected, and some things got figured out faster. That's the thing with episodic releases and several months between them: people have enough time to figure stuff out before the story moves on. :)


Well, that's all the questions answered for now.
Thank you to everybody who participated it was very interesting for me to see the questions pop up.
I hope I could answer most of them properly. If not, there are discussion channels on my Discord you can use. :)

I'll probably do another round sometime in the future. Maybe after the Chapter 6 release.

Cheers,
Ceo
 

Maviarab

Dark Lord of the Coffee
Donor
Jul 12, 2020
10,610
24,864


Hey everyone,

time for the 2nd part of the Q&A answers.

After the last update, the story lore is getting Vivid and also new
types of monsters and creatures are being introduced so are you also going to dive deep into their origins and lore and characters arc or are these characters just side characters with less addition in the main lore?


There's no universal answer to that and to be honest, the role I have planned now might change in the future.
For example, the mention of the Svartálfar (Dark Elves) was just a side note when I wrote the scene but now I'm thinking about implementing more lore for them in Book 2.
I'm also thinking about implementing some kind of "Lore Compendium" in the game (not much else to say here, it's just an idea for now) where I can put stuff like that without "cluttering" the game with too much information.

I suppose, while there won't be an 'official' ending...will there be some type of ending resolution for those who stuck by a side-girl?

No plans as of now. That might change depending on player feedback but it won't be a "full" ending. And it depends on my plans with the side character. For example, if I intend to bring it back in later Chapters at all.

How do you structure the work on your project? Or to put it more precisely: is there a kind of schedule that you follow and sometimes work on code, sometimes on graphics, etc.?

I work chronologically most of the time. That means the order in which you play the Chapters is the order in which I get them done throughout the development.
I don't like to "jump" between scenes because usually my mind is in the scene, the characters, what happens around them, and so on.
Working on a scene usually means everything: coding, writing, and setting up renders/animations, for the reason mentioned above.

If you were back at the beginning of the project, what would you do differently from the start, be it the story, your way of working or whatever?

The main thing I'd do differently is not start the game with a girlfriend.
At least if the relationship isn't the main focus of the story/game.
Other than that... I'd get more experience with the render engine of your choice before starting to work on the game.
Yes, a good story/writing can carry not-so-good visuals to some extent.
But not to the same extent that great visuals can carry a shit story, especially early on. I'd try to get both good from the start.

Coffee or tea?

Coffee, of course. Tea is only drinkable if you put rum in it.
And don't you dare to lock my thread again with your false information. :p


Has it been a conscious decision to not join tons of other AVN servers to share your work? Or is it more due to a lack of confidence to advertise yourself? Or am I just on all the wrong servers?

You're probably not on the wrong servers. I'm only on a few servers and even less actively reading them. I barely have enough time to keep track of my own Discord server let alone other servers.
So yes, it has been a conscious decision to focus my available time on development instead of promotion.
On top of that, I suck at self-promotion. :)


Would you like more of us fans to help you promote your game (I already do) in the other AVN servers?

I won't say no to free promotion. ;-)
That said, I don't expect anybody to do my work for me. I'm aware that I should promote more, but as I said above, I hate it. And since this is still a part-time project, I'd like to spend the limited time I have on things I don't hate.


And will you ever do occasional cross-promotion with other devs to get more exposure for your game?

I am/was part of a few Steam bundles.
Outside that, I'm not saying no to cross-promotion but I'll only do it if I played and liked the game for the cross-promo... and here comes the problem: I don't have a lot of time to play other games ;-)


Did you get DPC (Acting Lessons) level death threats or similar disturbing words from fans after killing a possible LI in peoples eyes?

Not yet. At least I didn't find it that bad. Maybe I need to kill more characters...

What do the Templars actually do? (and comparable questions)

I'd like to keep those answers within the game.
That doesn't mean there's no point in asking because often enough questions come up that are absolutely clear to me but not to the player.
So keep asking stuff like that and I'll try my best to answer those questions throughout the story.
Just the Q&A might be the wrong format to do it :)


Ailill says he has had over 900 years practice using a bow, but we're also told he was alive during Ponce de Leon's attempt to colonize Alfheimr. That occurred around 500 years ago on Earth, which would be the equivalent of ~3500 earth-years ago in Alfheimr's subjective timeline. Does this mean archery is a fairly recent hobby for Ailill, or has he somehow spent the bulk of his time outside Alfheimr despite being over 900 years old?

In general, when Álfar speak about years, they refer to years on Earth.
So in that case, he's talking about 900 years on Earth.
I probably need to make that clearer through dialogue whenever an Álfr speaks about timeframes.


Looking at ⁠story-discussions-spoilers , there seems to be some confusion about the difference between the four main LIs we see summarised at the end of every chapter, and the various other potential LIs we see in game. Could you explain a bit more about what the difference is?

There are no other "potential LIs." The 4 girls on the summary are the LIs.
Everyone else isn't an LI and won't be an LI (at least in Book 1). They'll have a bit of screen time here and there or provide "distraction" but nothing more.
The 4 LIs all have a connection to the main story, the rest just have "touch points" at best and the 4 LIs will have an epilogue (notice how I didn't write "ending" because some people will misinterpret that) at the end of the game.


I get the distinct impression that magic is rare, but we don't know if it's hereditary or not. Without going into spoilers, have there been any serious magicians among humans to the point of, say, even approaching being an equal with someone like Medb? I, personally, like having magic for the MC with the foreshadowing already done, but I'd like to know if there's precedent for it.

Magic is rare. Human mages do exist and they can potentially reach the levels of someone like Medb but keep in mind that Medb has a lot more (life-)time to train her powers than a human.


Are the LI's getting the traction that you have expected?

Some are getting even more traction than expected :p
In general, yes. At least for now when a good part of their stories is still left to be told.


Are there some things that fell flat or are there some plot points/characters that you expected to have more of an impact on the players/community?

Overall, no. Some things took a bit longer than I expected, and some things got figured out faster. That's the thing with episodic releases and several months between them: people have enough time to figure stuff out before the story moves on. :)


Well, that's all the questions answered for now.
Thank you to everybody who participated it was very interesting for me to see the questions pop up.
I hope I could answer most of them properly. If not, there are discussion channels on my Discord you can use. :)

I'll probably do another round sometime in the future. Maybe after the Chapter 6 release.

Cheers,
Ceo
Thanks Devin...just got back from hospital (broke my foot) so only just got on PC.

Appreciated mate.
 

pitao

Active Member
May 18, 2023
505
519
Did you get DPC (Acting Lessons) level death threats or similar disturbing words from fans after killing a possible LI in peoples eyes?

Not yet. At least I didn't find it that bad. Maybe I need to kill more characters..
Wow are some people lives so empty to react like that over entertainment? It still makes me dumbfounded whenever I hear that kind of events o_O I'm glad the dev uses humor over the question.

Seem like a few football "fans" (if we can even call them that) here in Portugal that when their team lose a few matches they threat the lives of coaches and footballers and some even already acted before violently over a thing that should be used as entertainment, I'm also a fan of a team here and the most I get is sad when my team loses, does it impact that much my own life? nah never, it does impact more the protagonist lives because they make a living from those entertainment businesses. Getting that violent even if just with words over a book/movie/game/AVN etc etc it is even more ridiculous imo.
 
Apr 2, 2023
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728
If you were back at the beginning of the project, what would you do differently from the start, be it the story, your way of working or whatever?

The main thing I'd do differently is not start the game with a girlfriend.
At least if the relationship isn't the main focus of the story/game.
I like this take. Relationships matter. As an immersive reader I'd be more inclined to believe her sincerity if she had started as a long time childhood friend versus girlfriend right out the gate. However, it is your story; tell it how you see fit.

Coffee or tea?

Coffee, of course. Tea is only drinkable if you put rum in it.
And don't you dare to lock my thread again with your false information. :p
trying-not-to-laugh-zoom-in.gif

Did you get DPC (Acting Lessons) level death threats or similar disturbing words from fans after killing a possible LI in peoples eyes?

Not yet. At least I didn't find it that bad. Maybe I need to kill more characters...
There have been a number of instances where I've enjoyed a character who met an untimely end and some I've been able to call while others it was a "OH DAMN!" moment. I damn near threw my laptop because I didn't see it coming. Which is a testament to her character and the writer behind her. If it drives the story forward adding to the MC development death's, while tragic, are absolutely necessary.
 
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4.40 star(s) 56 Votes