VN Ren'Py The Neverwhere Tales [v0.5.0] [Ceolag]

[Elduriel]

View attachment 4086522

 

[Elduriel]

I didn't have a problem because the game gave the option to kill or not.

 

[Rehwyn]

While we're on the topic, what do we think the odds are that if you and Finn fuck she told Medb? Elves are pretty open about sex it seems, and she was pretty much already telling her mom everything she did with you...

That could have some interesting implications later on if it comes up in conversation with other LIs you might be with.

 

[ename144]

How do you guys feeling about killing off our alfar mentor girl?

Usually its hated in avn's when a "LI" dies but imo the story implications are great for this one and gives the mc (more) reason for personal involvement, how do you feel about it?

I felt like it was obvious thats shes gonna die since their lewd and the talk about the future.

I have mixed feelings about it. While obviously sad, I think it served an important narrative function in the larger story. In that sense, I think it worked well. But as the central arc of the current chapter - in a vacuum - I think it had several shortcomings. First, it focused too much of our time in Alfheimr on a single character, who then died. Second, I strongly dislike tying closure of Finnabair's story to another character's path. You can read my initial thoughts if you want the full chapter and verse.

Yeah I mean I think Kaija will be in it but I do think be more of a focus on at least those 2 than Kaija + the story elements. As I feel we need to start to learn a bit more about Fiona and Elea , especially Fiona's family. but that is just me

Honestly, I think all the girls need time in the spotlight ASAP. Kaija is obviously a charged topic and plenty of players will want nothing more to do with her, but for those who are on her path, there's a lot of her backstory still being withheld. More importantly, she and the MC have some huge issues to discuss after the stunt he just pulled, and putting the discussion on hold (after completely ignoring her in chapter 5) isn't going to work well.

Meanwhile Elea desperately needs a solid connection to the plot; I like the character well enough, but thus far she might as well be in a separate game. Medb, despite a lot of camera time in Chapter 5, remains a very thinly sketched presence in the game and has less chemistry with the MC than poor Helena (IMHO). Fiona might actually be in the best position to spend time on the back burner, since we've established the basics of who she is and how she could tie in to future events, and her mysterious backstory isn't tied to current events (AFAWCT). Still, it will grate if the MC ignores her for another chapter given how quickly their relationship has developed to this point (if he's on her path, of course).

Combine all that with some long overdue details of what the Templars actually do and how this much ballyhooed war with the elves will be fought, and Chapter 6 has a lot of ground to cover even before we get to advancing the main story. It makes me a little nervous, I'm not going to lie.

 

[xapican]

ename144 ;
For those who broke up with Kaija and burnt bridges with parents (hence Templars) the next chapter will be just the closure, as far as Kaija concerns the "truce" is over, Grandmaster is back, and MC don't need Kaija to team up, plus he got advanced "fencing lessons" so those can go other path to the end of the story.
those who are on Kaija and parents path, will have the oportunity to help father out and Maybe avoid a war between the Alfar and Templars. so all is still open, totally agree that next chapter is fully loaded, and it must by mere logic bring the decision if we side with Alfar, Templars, or seek for other alternative more so that there are only 10 to 11 chapters planned.

 

[ename144]

ename144 ;
For those who broke up with Kaija and burnt bridges with parents (hence Templars) the next chapter will be just the closure, as far as Kaija concerns the "truce" is over, Grandmaster is back, and MC don't need Kaija to team up, plus he got advanced "fencing lessons" so those can go other path to the end of the story.
those who are on Kaija and parents path, will have the oportunity to help father out and Maybe avoid a war between the Alfar and Templars. so all is still open, totally agree that next chapter is fully loaded, and it must by mere logic bring the decision if we side with Alfar, Templars, or seek for other alternative more so that there are only 10 to 11 chapters planned.

Obviously any given LI can be brushed over very quickly if you aren't on her path, but my point was that none of their paths are at a particularly good pausing point going into Chapter 6. And IMHO, Kaija's path is the most in need of attention of all of them. As I keep saying, on her love path the MC chose to forgive her deception and committed to spending time with her as a couple... only for Chapter 5 to ignore her completely when confronting the parents, then double down by having the MC run off for a holiday with one of her mortal enemies. All without so much as a text message. This is NOT some little detail that can wait for Chapter 7 to laugh off, it's a fully blown relationship crisis for a relationship that barely survived the last crisis a week earlier.

Unfortunately, with so many other irons in the fire and Kaija herself roughly as popular as an IRS audit, I fear waiting for Chapter 7 could easily happen.

 

[xapican]

Kaija herself roughly as popular as an IRS audit,

hey they're popular too, just not the nicest thing what could happen to someone (I guess IRS is the same as DGI over here Tax agency ?)

 

[Dessolos]

Unfortunately, with so many other irons in the fire and Kaija herself roughly as popular as an IRS audit, I fear waiting for Chapter 7 could easily happen.

Sometimes I do wonder if there was a poll what % would say they like Kaija vs hate. While not a metric you can go by and won't be accurate. Every once in awhile when I do see a post on reddit about this game and I see more comments about liking Kaija than hating her over there but the complete opposite on this thread.

 

[ename144]

hey they're popular too, just not the nicest thing what could happen to someone (I guess IRS is the same as DGI over here Tax agency ?)

Probably.

Spoiler: Taxing Aside

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Sometimes I do wonder if there was a poll what % would say they like Kaija vs hate. While not a metric you can go by and won't be accurate. Every once in awhile when I do see a post on reddit about this game and I see more comments about liking Kaija than hating her over there but the complete opposite on this thread.

I'd love to know, too. I like Kaija quite a bit, but I can see why others would not.

Sadly, I don't think the game has handled Kaija all that well. Not only is her variable backstory easy to miss (and sometimes downright confusing), but the game has really had to bend over backwards to keep the two extreme sub-paths on the same page. Players who want nothing more to do with her are still stuck dealing with her quite a bit, while players who want to treat her as a partner never get a chance to confide in her the way they can with Elea or Fiona.

Despite Ceolag's valiant efforts to accommodate other options, the game clearly works best with Kaija as a mostly friend who could eventually become more. But I think we're approaching a breaking point for the love route. Eventually the MC has to start treating her like a girlfriend if the choice is to have any meaning, and Chapter 5 was a big step in the wrong direction.

 

[Grumpy Old Aussie]

Sometimes I do wonder if there was a poll what % would say they like Kaija vs hate. While not a metric you can go by and won't be accurate. Every once in awhile when I do see a post on reddit about this game and I see more comments about liking Kaija than hating her over there but the complete opposite on this thread.

It would depend how the question is worded and if there are options. There are people like me who hate Kaija as a girlfriend. No way in hell would I forgive and trust her as a gf. I can't stand women who do that sort of shit. In saying that, I do like her as a Templar, she has plenty of skills and moves and is very loyal and dedicated.

 

[Wolfram99]

While we're on the topic, what do we think the odds are that if you and Finn fuck she told Medb? Elves are pretty open about sex it seems, and she was pretty much already telling her mom everything she did with you...

That could have some interesting implications later on if it comes up in conversation with other LIs you might be with.

Would be pretty based if that decision grenades the Medb path .

It would depend how the question is worded and if there are options. There are people like me who hate Kaija as a girlfriend. No way in hell would I forgive and trust her as a gf. I can't stand women who do that sort of shit. In saying that, I do like her as a Templar, she has plenty of skills and moves and is very loyal and dedicated.

It would probably depend on where the Poll is at, Steam, Patreon, or here.

The LI's are quite something in this game.
The red head's a traitor.
The ginger is Sus.
The blonde is bland.
The brunette a bitch.

 

[nitkonikic]

Sometimes I do wonder if there was a poll what % would say they like Kaija vs hate. While not a metric you can go by and won't be accurate. Every once in awhile when I do see a post on reddit about this game and I see more comments about liking Kaija than hating her over there but the complete opposite on this thread.

Poll would be heavily in favor of Kaija.
Simple truth is, people will mostly raise their voice to complain about something/someone (vocal minority).

Most also play VN just as it is, VN, not really "putting themselves in shoes of protagonist". And in that case, eh, why "lose" content?
You can't "feel" betrayal if you just see it as fun twist in a story, nothing else.

My prediction would be strong 80/20 in favor of Kaija fans, if not even higher.
p.s. (fuck Kaija)

 

[Dessolos]

Most also play VN just as it is, VN, not really "putting themselves in shoes of protagonist". And in that case, eh, why "lose" content?

For me that is 100% true I find it impossible to do that myself I just use my own personal feelings toward a character , their actions and context of a situation but never in the MC's shoes. Hell alot of the time I really don't even care what happens to a MC if they are betrayed or whatever as long as my personal feelings is greater than whatever negative thing a LI or character did to a MC heavily depends on the context of course. As I view a MC more as a tool to tell the story and get to know the characters. That is probably one of the biggest reasons I don't have an issue with Kaija and she is my current favorite.

Yeah I play every path unless I really hate a character cause like you said why lose content when I can make another save. There is only a small handful of paths I skipped across all games ive played. I want to say 20 or less . Be a very different story if we were only allowed one save in these games.

 

[nitkonikic]

For me that is 100% true I find it impossible to do that myself I just use my own personal feelings toward a character , their actions and context of a situation but never in the MC's shoes. Hell alot of the time I really don't even care what happens to a MC if they are betrayed or whatever as long as my personal feelings is greater than whatever negative thing a LI or character did to a MC heavily depends on the context of course. As I view a MC more as a tool to tell the story and get to know the characters. That is probably one of the biggest reasons I don't have an issue with Kaija and she is my current favorite.

Yeah I play every path unless I really hate a character cause like you said why lose content when I can make another save. There is only a small handful of paths I skipped across all games ive played. I want to say 20 or less . Be a very different story if we were only allowed one save in these games.

Exact opposite here. If I can't (3 letter word VNs aside, porn games are porn games, no reason to get engaged to story there) put myself in MCs shoes, or grow to hate his reactions because in my brain they make no sense, I usually drop VN.
In my case it all comes from reading books/playing heavy choice based RPGs.

Simply put, I must see everything play out in my mind, like watching a TV show. Every detail, every conversation, every character voice, I must "see and hear" them.
So when character like Kaija comes along, can't help but hate her guts. She's hurt me, beyond repair for even friendship.

That's not to say I won't run friendship route, to see that content, it will just be something minor and on the side to learn more about characters (well worth it in this VN, where 90% of Kaija personality is shown on higher score route)

 

[Dessolos]

Exact opposite here. If I can't (3 letter word VNs aside, porn games are porn games, no reason to get engaged to story there) put myself in MCs shoes, or grow to hate his reactions because in my brain they make no sense, I usually drop VN.
In my case it all comes from reading books/playing heavy choice based RPGs.

Simply put, I must see everything play out in my mind, like watching a TV show. Every detail, every conversation, every character voice, I must "see and hear" them.
So when character like Kaija comes along, can't help but hate her guts. She's hurt me, beyond repair for even friendship.

That's not to say I won't run friendship route, to see that content, it will just be something minor and on the side to learn more about characters (well worth it in this VN, where 90% of Kaija personality is shown on higher score route)

sometimes I wish I could play like that to see how different I would do things. I play mostly choice base RPG's when I have the option to and never been able to care for a MC in those game either at least most of the time cause I won't say never but very rarely.

 

[PaxHadrian17]

I have two distinct Kaija paths - high love and very low/no love - and the way Ceolag has written Kaija allows for significant RP IMO.

* I get wanting Kaija to be a good woman (high love) caught in the terrible choices of dual loyalty... who come first - the MC or the Templars and how can the one that comes second ever really keep their trust in her when that side (MC or Templars) feels like a decision needs to fall their way and does not, over and over again.

Who does she side with when the shit truly hits the fan?


* I also am totally with the MC on the very low/no love path.

She gaslighted him for years, trusted in His loyalty while she was happy to enjoy a job made easier by her deception, and effectively blocked his ability to find a true romantic partner because the MC was loyal to what he thought they had.

For all we know, Kaija had one or more lovers/f-buddies who entertained her while she was 'out on business'.

She certainly has no loyalty to the MC beyond that of a friend, as she clearly stated when they had the talk after she did her Templar duty and helped to rescue the Grandmaster's son.

For me, the MC appreciated this more initially than he did once she explained where her true loyalty lay. He was, after all, just a job.


I've tied the MC's relationship to his parents to the two paths:

Kaija High love and MC trusts his parents

Kaija very low/no love and the MC burns his bridges

I am very curious how these two paths will play out.

I think that Ceolag is one of the few AVN creators I've found who has the ability to tell these two divergent versions of this story against the background of the greater conflict between the Templars and the Alfar (and also the still hidden third party who seems to be instigating this conflict).

This will take time and chapters to play out and I am looking forward to the journey!

Cheers!!

 

[Grumpy Old Aussie]

sometimes I wish I could play like that to see how different I would do things. I play mostly choice base RPG's when I have the option to and never been able to care for a MC in those game either at least most of the time cause I won't say never but very rarely.

I always immerse myself in the game, I get a better playing experience. I kinda see it as the whole point of storytelling. The more I get immersed in a story the more I enjoy it. Although, how much you can immerse yourself depends on the story of course. Most porn games are utter rubbish when it comes to storytelling. A lot of harem games often start off well and then turn to crap towards the end. This one is a gem so far and with only four LIs it should stay that way until the end.

 

[minibaer12]

I have two distinct Kaija paths - high love and very low/no love - and the way Ceolag has written Kaija allows for significant RP IMO.

* I get wanting Kaija to be a good woman (high love) caught in the terrible choices of dual loyalty... who come first - the MC or the Templars and how can the one that comes second ever really keep their trust in her when that side (MC or Templars) feels like a decision needs to fall their way and does not, over and over again.

Who does she side with when the shit truly hits the fan?


* I also am totally with the MC on the very low/no love path.

She gaslighted him for years, trusted in His loyalty while she was happy to enjoy a job made easier by her deception, and effectively blocked his ability to find a true romantic partner because the MC was loyal to what he thought they had.

For all we know, Kaija had one or more lovers/f-buddies who entertained her while she was 'out on business'.

She certainly has no loyalty to the MC beyond that of a friend, as she clearly stated when they had the talk after she did her Templar duty and helped to rescue the Grandmaster's son.

For me, the MC appreciated this more initially than he did once she explained where her true loyalty lay. He was, after all, just a job.


I've tied the MC's relationship to his parents to the two paths:

Kaija High love and MC trusts his parents

Kaija very low/no love and the MC burns his bridges

I am very curious how these two paths will play out.

I think that Ceolag is one of the few AVN creators I've found who has the ability to tell these two divergent versions of this story against the background of the greater conflict between the Templars and the Alfar (and also the still hidden third party who seems to be instigating this conflict).

This will take time and chapters to play out and I am looking forward to the journey!

Cheers!!

I'm not that far away from you. I only have two paths that interest me. They both have the following in common:
- I'm 100% on the love path with Medb
- I keep in friendly contact with the other two LIs (I've forgotten their names because they don't interest me)
- Breaking with the parents (burning bridges)
- I don't take sides with the Templars or Alfar's

Path 1 (also my main path): Breaking with Kaija, what she did is a NO-GO for me and doesn't deserve an apology! (if I have the opportunity, not even as a partner)

Path 2 (warlike path): I'm only pretending to be on the love path with Kaija, just to get additional training from her. I have no idea how this will develop, but there will definitely come a point where I won't need her anymore and then it'll be over.

 

[Wolfram99]

Path 2 (warlike path): I'm only pretending to be on the love path with Kaija, just to get additional training from her. I have no idea how this will develop, but there will definitely come a point where I won't need her anymore and then it'll be over.

Im interested how the cheating with Finn will play out on the Kaija full love path.
How vile will that interaction be , or ceolag decides to torpedo kaija's character and make her a cuckquean, now that would be an assasination of the century.

Im still salty that if you decide to help the elves, you get an automatic +1 kaija LP.
Why does Ceolag want to tarnish the Kaija Hate path so much?

 

[Maviarab]

Sometimes I do wonder if there was a poll what % would say they like Kaija vs hate. While not a metric you can go by and won't be accurate. Every once in awhile when I do see a post on reddit about this game and I see more comments about liking Kaija than hating her over there but the complete opposite on this thread.

If you want a left leaning, US under 30 centric echo chamber response to a question, then Reddit for sure would be the place to ask said question.

Im interested how the cheating with Finn will play out on the Kaija full love path.

How would she ever know?