Ren'Py The Null Hypothesis [v0.5b] [Ron Chon]

[sleepingkirby]

You're entirely missing dates, sex, gifting items/clothing, and optional events. All those things together cut down on like 99% of the time in your hypothetical which only mentioned class/studying/training.

Quests and events are one time only. And hence, would not cut down 99% of it. Dates are only available from season 2 and although they would provide more points, they are also about 1~2 minutes if you're not fast forwarding. If you are fast forwarding, they would take about 10~15 seconds to run through. Hence neutralizing the time save or giving you negative time save.

So it would still take just as long (conservatively).

If you don't believe me, vid cap yourself playing the game from start to the end of the content and check the run time. I'm willing to bet my estimates are actually conservative because I'm not factoring in decision making, characters being busy/refusing study/training, RNG for not taking a class with you, grinding for money and gifts, screen transitions (not that they're long, but they do take time), etc.

 

[Maddeninggg]

Quests and events are one time only.

But dates are absolutely available in season 1? And the optional events were specifically tuned so that doing all 3 for a girl in any given season will give you the vast majority of her available stats for that particular season. Feel free to dig around in the code to verify how many stats each optional event gives. So, I guess your grind could theoretically be that long, but only if you completely ignore the optional events and other interactions like gift giving.

 

[sleepingkirby]

And the optional events were specifically tuned so that doing all 3 for a girl in any given season will give you the vast majority of her available stats for that particular season.

Again, one time events. Which I addressed here:

That would still literally be 8.3 hours minus 1 hour, 2 max. That's still 6~7 hours.

Feel free to dig around in the code to verify how many stats each optional event gives.

I've supplied the proof for my side, which you concurred with here:

So, I guess your grind could theoretically be that long,

If you want to prove your statement, the burden of proof is on you.

 

[Evil13]

Quests and events are one time only. And hence, would not cut down 99% of it. Dates are only available from season 2 and although they would provide more points, they are also about 1~2 minutes if you're not fast forwarding. If you are fast forwarding, they would take about 10~15 seconds to run through. Hence neutralizing the time save or giving you negative time save.

So it would still take just as long (conservatively).

If you don't believe me, vid cap yourself playing the game from start to the end of the content and check the run time. I'm willing to bet my estimates are actually conservative because I'm not factoring in decision making, characters being busy/refusing study/training, RNG for not taking a class with you, grinding for money and gifts, screen transitions (not that they're long, but they do take time), etc.

You know, this is a radical idea, but instead of picking apart the game, maybe just enjoy it for what it is meant to be, a slow burn.

There are plenty of games that go quick and fast for the sex, this game was never meant to be one of those. It's a slow game where you are meant to explore the environs and the burgeoning relationships with the girls.

To put it this way, when you go out to a restaurant, you order a meal from the menu, do you try to shovel the meal down in record time, or do you savour every bite, try to test everything that makes up the meal?

Because that's what is going on here - you're expecting a meal you can just shove your face into, when in actuality, it's a three course meal.

 

[sleepingkirby]

You know, this is a radical idea, but instead of picking apart the game, maybe just enjoy it for what it is meant to be, a slow burn.

There are plenty of games that go quick and fast for the sex, this game was never meant to be one of those. It's a slow game where you are meant to explore the environs and the burgeoning relationships with the girls.

To put it this way, when you go out to a restaurant, you order a meal from the menu, do you try to shovel the meal down in record time, or do you savour every bite, try to test everything that makes up the meal?

Because that's what is going on here - you're expecting a meal you can just shove your face into, when in actuality, it's a three course meal.

Already addressed all of these points (namely a false dilemma fallacy) here.

 

[Evil13]

Already addressed all of these points (namely a false dilemma fallacy) here.

Okay, well while you're smelling your own farts, I'm saying goodbye and pressing ignore.

 

[sleepingkirby]

Okay, well while you're smelling your own farts, I'm saying goodbye and pressing ignore.

"This isn't an airport, you don't need to announce your departure."
To everyone else, notice how he didn't address or try to prove his own logical fallacies wasn't a fallacy and instead went directly to personal attack fallacy? That's how you know that he knows his statement was made disingenuously in the first place and had no logical leg to stand on. He wasn't looking for a conversation or a discussion. He was simply looking to, well, ironically, smell his own farts.

 

[Dazzier31]

Again, one time events.

If you want to prove your statement, the burden of proof is on you.

The events being one-time-only is irrelevant, if it cuts down the grind significantly they absolutely should be counted in doing the math of how long it would take, so if doing the 3 sets of events give you the lion's share of the stats on that season, ignoring them along with every other thing already mentioned to you just to throw some numbers around that would prove your point (if your math is even accurate, because with you ignoring more than half of the things the game does to aliviate the exact grind you complain about, the whole result is very sketchy) is irresponsible to say the least.

Bottom line: Between trusting you and the developer who is telling you that you are factually incorrect, I'm gonna trust the person who actually worked on the game.

 

[Mutation8888]

Cheats are like accessibility options. They're there for people that need them.

I get that, which is why I indicated that some people may enjoy that sort of thing, but like I indicated, some people inadvertently hamstring themselves with such options. I was merely indicating that I choose not to use such options as I would not want to destroy the game for myself... nothing more to read into that other than what you choose to.

This is the false dilemma fallacy. All of what you wrote is a false dilemma fallacy.

Actually that is not my intent. Do not put words or intent in other people's mouths. That is what you chose to take away from the comments without taking note of the intent. As I indicated, each person has different wants and there are a variety of methods to obtain those wants. The only reason I indicated what you felt was a this or that fallacy is that most of the rude nay-sayers encountered seem to be of the variety of wanting a quick fix rather than a story line. I am well aware that there are many different flavors of people and opinions. I felt that I had made that clear in my comments beyond the this or that statement. I will choose to give you the benefit of the doubt as well and ignore your attempt at a personal attack for now. Apparently you took my statements personally yourself even though they were not intended as an attack. Just as you have the right to make your points, I exercised the same right in providing an alternate point of view. Funny how some people claim to want to give alternate points of view a chance then try to shoot them down.

 

[falafelswoop]

For anyone that is complaining about UI/UX, Don't worry i listened very clear your opinions and removed myself from the dev team, i hope Ron find someone with the right skill set for replacement, as it seens you guys have experience on the field, if any of you want to voluntery to replace me is more than welcome, just to clarify is a not remuned work .

I don't see a Jinp in the credits page. If you were a significant contributor, but they didn't pay you and won't even thank you, it's good that you left. Of course, I have no way of knowing whether you were a significant contributor or part of the dev team as you say.

 

[sleepingkirby]

The events being one-time-only is irrelevant,

That would still literally be 8.3 hours minus 1 hour, 2 max. That's still 6~7 hours.

if it cuts down the grind significantly they absolutely should be counted in doing the math of how long it would take, so if doing the 3 sets of events give you the lion's share of the stats on that season,

Quests and events are one time only. And hence, would not cut down 99% of it. Dates are only available from season 2 and although they would provide more points, they are also about 1~2 minutes if you're not fast forwarding. If you are fast forwarding, they would take about 10~15 seconds to run through. Hence neutralizing the time save or giving you negative time save.

So it would still take just as long (conservatively).

ignoring them along with every other thing already mentioned to you just to throw some numbers around that would prove your point (if your math is even accurate,

Feel free to check my math. I have all of it there. I'm not hiding my formulas or anything.

because with you ignoring more than half of the things the game does to aliviate the exact grind you complain about, the whole result is very sketchy) is irresponsible to say the least.

I'm only measuring level grind time. So I'm going to ignore story things. But if you want to talk about the time save from those, I've already addressed those:

they are also about 1~2 minutes if you're not fast forwarding. If you are fast forwarding, they would take about 10~15 seconds to run through. Hence neutralizing the time save or giving you negative time save.

So it would still take just as long (conservatively).

Bottom line: Between trusting you and the developer who is telling you that you are factually incorrect, I'm gonna trust the person who actually worked on the game.

I mean, none of what I stated are false. But I'm not going to force you to believe something you don't want to. I've stated my bit, I've supplied the math. It's all out in the open for someone to verify or dismantle if I've made a mistake. Feel free to peer review it if you like. If you don't want to believe that, that's your freedom.

 

[sleepingkirby]

Actually that is not my intent. Do not put words or intent in other people's mouths.

Fallacies do not require intent. You don't have to intend to say a fallacy to say a fallacy.

That is what you chose to take away from the comments without taking note of the intent. As I indicated, each person has different wants and there are a variety of methods to obtain those wants.

The only reason I indicated what you felt was a this or that fallacy is that most of the rude nay-sayers encountered seem to be of the variety of wanting a quick fix rather than a story line.

If you knew other people were doing a false dilemma fallacy (by wanting a quick fix over a storyline), wouldn't the logical answer to NOT subscribe to the same fallacy yourself?

I am well aware that there are many different flavors of people and opinions. I felt that I had made that clear in my comments beyond the this or that statement. I will choose to give you the benefit of the doubt as well and ignore your attempt at a personal attack for now.

Thank you for extending the same courtesy I've extended to you.

Apparently you took my statements personally yourself even though they were not intended as an attack. Just as you have the right to make your points, I exercised the same right in providing an alternate point of view.

Yes. Because when someone says "you can either do this or you're this." (especially via a logical fallacy), that tends to be a personal attack. This has been used many times in history. Notably, McCarthyism. You can either agree with us of you're a communist. Especially followed by "You *have* to..."

Funny how some people claim to want to give alternate points of view a chance then try to shoot them down.

Funny, most would read your post with the false dilemma fallacy and state that that's what you were trying to do. That's the point of the false dilemma fallacy. To force someone into a point by giving them a false choice/dilemma that really only has one choice.

 

[Epigonid]

The discussion on this thread really rivalling AAA game, guy's let's cool down a bit

 

[JustCallMeSteve]

Speculation on who/what the next antagonist/bad guy/villain to appear will be?

So far we have had the disgruntled stepbrother Juggernaut and the Evil Iron Giants Sentinels appear. It would make sense for Magneto and/or associates to make an appearance soon, though it is also entirely possible that they would manipulate others into making moves and setting their own plans in motion from the background.

 

[BigAlzBub]

Speculation on who/what the next antagonist/bad guy/villain to appear will be?

So far we have had the disgruntled stepbrother Juggernaut and the Evil Iron Giants Sentinels appear. It would make sense for Magneto and/or associates to make an appearance soon, though it is also entirely possible that they would manipulate others into making moves and setting their own plans in motion from the background.

I don't really see Magneto trying to attack Null, recruit him to his cause, for sure, although given that his mutant power is essentially to turn mutants into non-mutants, I would imagine that Magento would probably be more interested in his energy draining power and use him kind of like how he uses Rogue at the end of X1 Movie. Not that I'm a lore expert or anything, I've just watched (some of) the Cartoons and seen the movies and lightly dipped into the wider Marvel lore so that I recognise some elements that your typical movie punter wouldn't.

 

[JustCallMeSteve]

There have been some discussions on the discord concerning how Magneto might try to rope him in. I imagine that Magneto might set events into motion at some point to get the measure of Null, see if he would be an asset or a liability to the cause.

 

[Epigonid]

Probably mister sinister for me but yeah at this point there still many mystery in the future even the dev in discord still focus more on feature now

 

[Morgue]

There have been some discussions on the discord concerning how Magneto might try to rope him in. I imagine that Magneto might set events into motion at some point to get the measure of Null, see if he would be an asset or a liability to the cause.

Now I myself have not gone to the discord side for this game.... Have too much to do irl for most of the arguments even for this games forum on here.... But... I would like to add here that maybe, for game sake.... Magneto could send one of his daughters to the school to try and recruit Null ... Storyline wise it could go one way or the other and the daughter joins Null or gets Null to join her Daddy's side.... A list of his daughters.... ZALA DANE, POLARIS and WANDA ....
Before writing this I thought there would be more.... I remembered he had 15 kids when I was reading Marvel and X-Men as a kid... I just looked up the list and saw that not that many daughters survived the comics story telling from past....
(I thought there was at least one more that wore a blue costume but could not find a reference to her in my search)

 

[Mutation8888]

So far we have had the disgruntled stepbrother Juggernaut and the Evil Iron Giants Sentinels appear. It would make sense for Magneto and/or associates to make an appearance soon, though it is also entirely possible that they would manipulate others into making moves and setting their own plans in motion from the background.

I would say Mystique would be a good one. I could see her shapeshift into one of Null's LI's trying to mess with the situation only to have Null nullify her power inadvertently and find out her plans. Or she may try to get Null on her side (she is not averse to a little manipulation of the emotional and physical kind).

 

[Evil13]

I would say Mystique would be a good one. I could see her shapeshift into one of Null's LI's trying to mess with the situation only to have Null nullify her power inadvertently and find out her plans. Or she may try to get Null on her side (she is not averse to a little manipulation of the emotional and physical kind).

It's been jokingly suggested on the Discord that Mystique keeps trying to shapeshift into various people to try and kill Null, only for his powers to cause her to shapeshift back. Or whatever assassination attempt she's trying fails miserably.

Basically Mystique is the Null Hypothesis version of Wily E Coyote.