Ren'Py The Null Hypothesis [v0.5b] [Ron Chon]

[mbRjpZLD]

Interest from the devs? No.


Which is why it'd be simple to mod.

However, the dev team is focused on the seasons and events.

Yeah if I had been curious if the devs are interested, I would have posted it in the dev-questions discord channel. I posted it here because I remember some users complaining about it and I want a quick interest check before I start making the mod. Thanks.

 

[fake.name.again]

Just a note that I won't be going into as much detail because I just spent a day making the SLDR's cheat injector for RLE for the Prime mod and that took more time than I'd liked. So I want to spend more time working on my side project

We're engaging in the spirit of free cooperation here, after all. I do appreciate you (and others) take time to read and respond in a thoughtful manner. As you probably noticed, I took my time to respond this time in the same spirit.

Correct. Because a story is a story. A game is a game. One is passive while the other is active. I can see they want to tell a story. Which, cool, good on them. But a story isn't a game. And, as such, a story, being passive, can't have a game play loop

Right. But notice how that still is built around the primary gameplay loop.

Hmm, I believe to be it a bit more complex relation. The simplest, most basic story is something like: you are in a place (literal or metaphorical), that is not optimal, has a problem, a danger, you aim at something better, more desirable, and there is friction between. Such micro-stories are obviously found in every gameplay loop. And story writing (narration, dialogue) in games are used to establish starting place, give you vision of your end-point. And the most difference between pure story like in a book, and game is journey: in a book it is told to you, in a game, as you said you are active, agentic.

It's my view that just because it's porn, doesn't mean its less artistic. There are cultures that, prior to colonization and/or globalization, that saw, what we considered porn, to be just as foundational to literature as romances or comedies or tragedies.

Hmmm, to be honest, I'm not all that sure what exactly are you pointing too. I'm actually interested in someone actually developed real art of writing erotica and/or art. For man, mind you, as steamy romance is not exactly what I'm looking for. Modern porn mostly doesn't have story, almost at all. Or very, very bad ones. And where for example Japanese (or Italian, or French) at least try to set, mostly formulaic situations, can't say I found anything resembling well written (as much as language barrier and availability of translations allow). You can argue that it doesn't need one, especially for people that look for fap material. But I've been exploring, looking for better models for stories. Tried watching sexploitation movies, recently been listening to some harem-lit books. Best of them were half passable stories of normal kind with erotic subplots. Actually I found some of the most developed erotic stories here, at this forum in games, and since that discovery I've been lurking here and trying them, not only playing but analysing and thinking. But if you have some great fantasy/SF/Superhero saga to recommend (best in audiobook format), I'm open to suggestions.

So the other part is integration of sexual elements in a somewhat mainstream medium. And yes, there are some decent examples: Yakuza seems to have a lot of mildly sexual plots. As I'm from Poland I can mention that the first Witcher game was quite adventurous in this regard (but sadly the bigger CDPR grew, the more PC they got, Cyberpunk was a let-down for me in this regard). French comic books (that are very different from American) have decent amount of titillation.

It's just that sex, much like fart jokes, can be easily exploited for an instant reaction. But also like fart jokes, it can easily be overused.

I'm not sure if I understand your point. Clearly, sex and farts are worlds apart when it comes to motivational forces they exert over us. Yes, they both biological in nature, but sex is one of the main drives in humans (and not only), where farts are at best an accidental by-product. There is no fart-ual selection of species. And their surrounding taboos and norms that culture create around them reflex that.

Like, in the US, nudity is considered taboo and scandalous.

To a degree. It is pushed out of mainstream. But there is your HBO or Showtime not to mention whole porn industry. And I don't think there is any advanced civilization that doesn't put limitations around displaying nudity and sexual acts.

But when you've taken a ton of figure drawing classes, a nude body invoke less a reaction than seeing that same person dressed in lingerie. (Speaking from experience. My favorite thing to draw was the human figure. There are days for me, when seeing someone nude is not that much different than seeing them dressed.)

One of the reasons I discovered the need for erotica, rather than porn. Porn is very simple-minded. The whole building up anticipation, teasing, moving to a goal without instant ratification is much more interesting for me.

Also, I would re-examine those "philosophy nonsense" if I were you. The problem with art and literary theory is that, for some reason, they all have a grain of truth but are almost, always, especially by academics, expressed really, REALLY badly. Again, going back to my personal experience, a lot of the scripts that I was reading when I was young pulled from A LOT of literary theory.

As I said, I like philosophy. Had plenty of it in my studies too. I can even name some of post-modern concepts that I wholeheartedly agree with, or at last see them as interesting (I can at least consider death-of-an-author stance, even if I won't agree it should be normative). But I find in general the whole disposition too cynical, too full of itself. They (at least some of them) aimed at unintelligibility, which I find appalling. And in Theory of Literature especially, I didn't find it to be constructive or eye-opening to new possibilities. And deconstruction if for me major disaster. Sure, there are extremely rare examples of some amazing ones. Dune can be considered an amazing deconstruction of chosen one narrative. But mostly is just an excuse for edgy grimdark shit, it is cynical, and as the name itself suggest it is not constructive. I was (and to a degree still am) a major Star Wars fan for decades, and just can't forgive Rian Johnson deconstruction of this universe. It was a success of deconstruction: left complete ruin.

And, again, this is for a cartoon (granted, a cartoon for adults that's renounced for it's writing...).

To be honest, I don't watch too many cartoons (adult ones, so we are not talking about Batman animated series or X-men evolution that are less directly adult oriented). Nothing against per se, but I like clean, detailed ones, with more realistic than symbolic/simplified style. Loved Archer. Old Spawn short series was cool too. Invincible from the current ones started well. And I can appreciate significance and commentary of cultural mainstays like Simpsons or South Park, I just personally like something else.

But every one of those theories were proven correct. They (the writers of the show) got the emotional reactions they were looking for.

OK, that's interesting, and it is actually the type of confirmation I find credible. Pragmatic.

Often, the deeper you get into writing stories or making art, you'll begin to uncover for yourself these exact same theories as many before you, as I have and many after us will. And, sometimes, despite academia's best efforts, there's no substitute for practical, personal experience. Sometimes, you can only truly learn these theories once you have gone through the gauntlet yourself.

Absolutelly. But there are fantastic courses on YT, even on YaleCourses channel itself. But in this instance I find that they seem to be asking the wrong questions. Maybe I need "Narrative Theory" or other discipline that doesn't seem to exist. Understanding structures and narrative arcs, setting up motivational frameworks. Exploring differences between plot driven and character driven stories and why one (character driven) is better than the other. Understanding values of consistency and keeping promises you made to reader/watchers/players when introducing them to your world/story. Understanding how actually are our stories fit into our psychology, culture, what function they have for us.

I actually wrote something tangentially addressing this in another thread.
https://f95zone.to/threads/is-anyone-else-tired-of-sexy-women-in-games.135705/#post-12779353
Particularly about an art theory I know everyone rolls their eyes at (even I did at some point), the "Everything's beautiful" or "There's beauty in everything."

I find myself disagreeing a lot with you here. Not sure how much in depth discussion we want to have. But on the subject of the beauty, you seem to fall strongly on the side of radical social constructivism, where I strongly reject blank slate theories. Mind you, I don't reject ability to learn, and the fact that there are social constructs (or socially reinforced standards), just the assumption that there is no nature that shape it, and we are free to reimagine it. When it comes to beauty, sure, there is some decent variability in our standards/ideals, we imitate and reinforce what we find attractive (or what we think the opposite sex find attractive). However, research concerning both short term and long term partner selection in both sexes has been done extensively, name of David Buss comes instantly to mind if you want to discuss the subject, and leave me with little doubt that there are universal guiding principles governing our perception of beauty, like looking for health markers for example symmetry.

But also, Jordan Peterson? The guy that thinks ethnic studies (remainder, I'm Asian. Taiwanese to be exact) should be abolished? That guy that would say to my face that I'm less of a person than he is because he has awesome genes despite him literally having an autoimmune disease (a genetic disease, mind you)? The guy that thought an all beef diet was a good idea, despite what doctors said to him, and natural even though most of the population of humanity in history didn't have persistent and reliable access to cow meat? The guy that thought China was setting up milking machines for men because he saw it on a Chinese porn and didn't realize it was porn? That Jordan Peterson?

You'll have to excuse me if I don't listen to the guy that thinks the recorded history of my culture is somehow less authoritative than second hand stories passed down by a bunch of people and then edited and compiled into a book by a committee and then mistranslated again and again that he thinks is holy.

This is another and even stronger example of a situation where I'm somewhat unsure how much I want to go in depth discussion. Part of me already screams from the inside, has already half written treatise on the subject, and want to plunge in probably mutually escalating discussion with you. The impulsive way. Been there, done that, didn't eve got the T-shirt for it. Another part, wants to disengage and avoid potential conflict at all cost. But finally I made the decision to first of all wait a bit - that is one of the reasons my answer comes delayed. That's why I'm writing this meta-answer first.

It might have been a mistake on my part to mention Peterson, as I was aware he is not, let's put it mildly, exactly universally appreciated. But I do believe, that he, especially his "Maps of Meaning" lectures and book are extremely beneficial in understanding not only "architecture of belief" but also of myths and stories in general. For example, he takes long time (3x over 2 hours long lectures) to analyse classic Pinocchio movie, not in glib, snobbish way often found among intellectuals that look down on the popular culture. He similarly treats other popular culture (Harry Potter, Marvel) with similar thoughtfulness and attitude of curiosity.

Most of what you're writing about Peterson just doesn't compute for me, and my knowledge of what he teaches, what are his opinions (or even what are his weakness). It seems to be a straight-up false picture of him. He certainly has nothing against Eastern cultures. Never heard him denigrate them. And I listened to him a lot, and there was never even a hint of racial superiority on his part that you are implying. I can hardly understand how could you even come to these conclusions, was that by yourself, by listening to him, or are these second hand opinions? Never - ever - heard him boast about his "awesome genes". Are we even talking about the same person? Certainly he did not talk about your culture in such condescending way you are talking about Bible here.

OK, he might have said something like every academic discipline that name and with "... studies" should be abolished - not 100% it is his quote, but He did express similar sentiment, which was aimed at poor quality research, not against ancient cultures and traditions, on the contrary. But OK, it was oversimplification from his side. Another acknowledgement I'll make is yes, he and his family seem to have a history of autoimmune disease. And one of the better methods of managing this condition that his daughter discovered was a meat diet. I don't remember him talking about milking machines. It's not impossible. Not sure how much I would hold it against if he made such a mistake.

Yes but several on this website, and no offense to RLE, are not the complex ones

Of course. It actually sometimes baffles me, why even look for porn in this medium, if you want just scenes without any friction.

While I know I said our game is incomplete up above, we made 100% sure that the girls themselves were complete. Everything we add to them now is just continuation or additional content. Which is, again not to bash Oni, more than what the girls in his game currently have.

Yeah, I oversimplified things. I know that girls are not necessarily complete as soon as they are introduced in RLE. And I haven't been following TNH development that closely. Mainly meant that you are developing them in parallel and that possibilities with them seems to be somewhat mediated by "act" (chapter/season) structure that is absent in RLE.

Wait till you read up on intermittent reinforcement (Vegas style positive reinforcement). That is far more insidious and difficult to break out of.. basically sets people up for addictive behaviors

Yeah, or as EA want us to call it: surprise mechanics. As the technology of making games becomes perfected, there are some serious dangers. Perfecting engagement to the point of addiction, and putting dopamine circuit on overdrive, is certainly one of the most relevant ones.

 

[mbRjpZLD]

Most of what you're writing about Peterson just doesn't compute for me, and my knowledge of what he teaches, what are his opinions (or even what are his weakness). It seems to be a straight-up false picture of him. He certainly has nothing against Eastern cultures. Never heard him denigrate them. And I listened to him a lot, and there was never even a hint of racial superiority on his part that you are implying. I can hardly understand how could you even come to these conclusions, was that by yourself, by listening to him, or are these second hand opinions? Never - ever - heard him boast about his "awesome genes". Are we even talking about the same person? Certainly he did not talk about your culture in such condescending way you are talking about Bible here.

sorry but jorp is a massive fraud and anyone taking him seriously is kind of disqualifying themselves so you're better off not mentioning him in the future.

 

[Pope Alexander VI]

How frequent are the updates? I don't want to start yet another game that only gets updated once a year.

 

[Dazzier31]

How frequent are the updates? I don't want to start yet another game that only gets updated once a year.

Every couple of weeks, give or take. Plus there is also this:

 

[Pope Alexander VI]

Every couple of weeks, give or take. Plus there is also this:

View attachment 3439839

Wow, finally a game that's supported properly. Respect to the devs.

 

[Knight]

Man I don't get any part of this. All of the girls have big enough tits for paizuri. I laugh every time they refer to Laura's as small, and I don't think I've even seen any hint that Jean's are supposed to be (she's insecure, but so what, she's also insecure about her beautiful face). And there's no particular reason goth gf must have big titty - there was a "big titty goth gf" meme going around for a while, but that doesn't make those traits related.

Did we play the same game? see pic below, she's not flat but her tits are not big enough to comfortably fuck.



In order to do a proper paizuri a girl has to be able to push her tits together enough to make a well big enough to engulf her mans cock, there is a minimum size that tits need to be in order to do that. You can reduce the size requirement a little bit by having the guy sit on her chest and angle his cock flat against her torso but that restricts the girls ability to move, see below:



A full paizuri requires her tits to be big enough that she could do it on her knee's while her man is standing or sitting while still having enough mobility to reach down and suck the cock head.

That pic you embedded there is frankly into hyper fetish territory. Which is hot, but by definition not realistic. And if someone is going to have unreal back-breaking bazongas, it should be someone who can support them, like with telekinesis or something.

Bro (or you a woman?), this has been discussed to death in the past and busty women themselves have come out and called BS on this argument.



There are plenty of girls who have tits that big without any kind of plastic surgery. It's like if a guy was arguing to a woman that guys that are 6'5" are unrealistic and in hyper fetish territory (tons of women fetishize height), it's significantly above average but there are plenty of guys around that height, same thing with tits.

 

[GoreSlay]

Which is why he just sends Toad to the meatgrinder.


Is there an error report I can hand over to the devs? There's not much we can garner from this other than "It didn't work for GoreSlay."

Unfortunately no message appears, it simply closes without further ado and takes me out of the app. I have tried it on another device and it works. I think it has something to do with the snapdragon 680 because it works on a snapdragon 860.

 

[Sweetluvd]

I can't believe that Jean can walk around in public nearly naked without the slightest bit of shame. I mean I really love it, but what I care about is the reaction of people around her. Null went with her everywhere on the map. But people didn't seem to mind that she was nearly naked. I'm looking forward to seeing people's changes the reaction when they see girls wearing nothing, instead of ignoring them. And it would be great to be able to see more details when they have sex like in a movie theater, a bathroom, or even crazier, a corner of a swimming pool or campus when it's quiet. The game is amazing.

 

[ShinyBoots1993]

Thanks.

You're welcome? I'm going to assume you're not intending to come off as rude as your response to me reads.

Modern porn mostly doesn't have story, almost at all. Or very, very bad ones.

Dude as a joke I watched the Axel Braun Marvel Pornographic universe and even made a timeline of it.

The only good thing I can say is that the costumes he helped design are great and he has a good grasp for continuity but he is a shit writer who has a hate boner for Spiderman... So a Marvel writer.

As I'm from Poland I can mention that the first Witcher game was quite adventurous in this regard (but sadly the bigger CDPR grew, the more PC they got, Cyberpunk was a let-down for me in this regard).

RIP the card mementos from the first game that are apparently being removed in the remake.

Clearly, sex and farts are worlds apart when it comes to motivational forces they exert over us.

There are plenty of people who sexualize farts.

I'm not one of them but it's notable enough to be worth mentioning.

But if you have some great fantasy/SF/Superhero saga to recommend (best in audiobook format), I'm open to suggestions.

Dune can be considered an amazing deconstruction of chosen one narrative.

Have you looked at "Behind the Dune"? It's a point-and-click smut game that apparently got people into reading the books.

I know that girls are not necessarily complete as soon as they are introduced in RLE. And I haven't been following TNH development that closely.

Ours pretty much are. We're just adding missing clothing, along with some new outfits, and the sex positions we cut for time.

Mainly meant that you are developing them in parallel and that possibilities with them seems to be somewhat mediated by "act" (chapter/season) structure that is absent in RLE.

Yep. We actually found it as a good measure to make sure no one is snubbed for screen time. The X-Men as a comic, at least prior to my departure from purchasing comics regularly, were good about including characters in whatever story was going on and we want to make sure everyone gets their proper screen time.

Respect to the devs.

I'll pass it on!

Did we play the same game? see pic below, she's not flat but her tits are not big enough to comfortably fuck.

Dude, gravity. Natural tits aren't spheres that are pliant like a beachball like they are in the examples you gave.

If our Rogue lifts and wraps, she'll be able to do it.

There are plenty of girls who have tits that big without any kind of plastic surgery. It's like if a guy was arguing to a woman that guys that are 6'5" are unrealistic and in hyper fetish territory (tons of women fetishize height), it's significantly above average but there are plenty of guys around that height, same thing with tits.

Yes but how often do you see a guy that tall? The average height for a male GLOBALLY is 5 feet 7.5 inches, around 171 centimeters.

The same is for tits. Most Western European classifications put the average size around a small "B" while using the American breast measurements it'd be a large "A."

Sadly unlike height, breasts are measured differently almost on a country basis so I can't give you an exact agreed-upon number like I can do with height but the point I'm making is that Madeline up there is a statistical outlier.

Edit: Though I'm with you on the "unrealistic bodies" thing. There will be other characters that are busty. We just also have a perspective issue. Like Laura looks taller than she's supposed to when standing next to the other two girls.

I have tried it on another device and it works. I think it has something to do with the snapdragon 680 because it works on a snapdragon 860.

I don't even know what a snapdragon is my dude. I might consider doing a system specs poll just so we can give android users an estimated minimum requirement.

I can't believe that Jean can walk around in public nearly naked without the slightest bit of shame. I mean I really love it, but what I care about is the reaction of people around her. Null went with her everywhere on the map. But people didn't seem to mind that she was nearly naked

What do you mean by "nearly naked?" The girls aren't meant to be going into populated areas where it'd cause a scene if they're nude.

I'm looking forward to seeing people's changes the reaction when they see girls wearing nothing, instead of ignoring them.

As far as them being fully naked, I don't believe there will be plans for that. Might get character reactions if they're wearing revealing clothing but nothing to the degree of getting a public indecency fine.

And it would be great to be able to see more details when they have sex like in a movie theater, a bathroom, or even crazier, a corner of a swimming pool or campus when it's quiet.

Art for these scenes are in the works.

 

[Evil13]

Dude as a joke I watched the Axel Braun Marvel Pornographic universe and even made a timeline of it.

Yeah, we're still worried about you after that.

 

[ShinyBoots1993]

Yeah, we're still worried about you after that.

I had another medication added to my routine and I can't say for 100% certain that it didn't contribute.

 

[Dazzier31]

Yeah, we're still worried about you after that.

Who's "we"? I gave up on him after that one.

 

[Sweetluvd]

What do you mean by "nearly naked?" The girls aren't meant to be going into populated areas where it'd cause a scene if they're nude.

I don't know, but In my case, Jean would refuse to be completely naked, but she would accept wearing a swimsuit that exposed her breasts and vagina to public places. Unfortunately I don't have my personal computer with me at this time so I can show you. Additionally, if it's true as you say, I think it might be a feature of the mod that some nice guy posted on this thread 2 days ago. I think you should try that mod, it's pretty cool.

 

[Dazzier31]

I don't know, but In my case, Jean would refuse to be completely naked, but she would accept wearing a swimsuit that exposed her breasts and vagina to public places. Unfortunately I don't have my personal computer with me at this time so I can show you. Additionally, if it's true as you say, I think it might be a feature of the mod that some nice guy posted on this thread 2 days ago. I think you should try that mod, it's pretty cool.

Hmmm, could be the shame values acting up or it could be a bug.

 

[mp82rw]

Did we play the same game? see pic below, she's not flat but her tits are not big enough to comfortably fuck.

[...]

A full paizuri requires her tits to be big enough that she could do it on her knee's while her man is standing or sitting while still having enough mobility to reach down and suck the cock head.

....have you ever actually done a titfuck in real life?

I can tell you that it works on a variety of sizes, and Rogue's in TNH are plenty big enough.

Source: Me, with paizuri being my favorite thing, and having done it with every woman I've ever dated. From B to G cups.

 

[MalkavianVamp]

It is crashing on launch on Android

 

[Clobbertime]

is there interest in a sandbox version? No content gated behind seasons or events? Just need to reach high enough Lust/Trust? Looking at the code it is fairly simple to make

That version is already being made by another developer, it's called Rogue-Like: Evolution.

 

[sleepingkirby]

My cheat injector thread got approved.
https://f95zone.to/threads/the-null-hypothesis-cheat-injector-v1-0-sleepingkirby.199827/

 

[Sweetluvd]

Hmmm, could be the shame values acting up or it could be a bug.

Still hope it wasn't the bug. I mean it's kinda cool.