VN Ren'Py Completed The Point of No Return [v1.0a] [DS23Games]

FookU2 · Mar 3, 2021

Geekbone said:
I am not sure why everyone is so hung up on an actual definition of NTR. NTR is no longer the exact definition you listed here and has become more of a feeling. If the reader/viewer gets that hole in the pit of their stomach or feel some anxiety at seeing a character, in the viewer's eyes/mind, be unfaithful or enjoy sex with another individual that they shouldn't be... that's NTR.

This is a common phenomena, especially in the English language. Original definitions or usages morph and change over time and NTR is no different. Look at words like awful, fine or commodity... All these words meant something totally different originally. Look at the work "sick" for example. That used to just mean sick as in health. Now it could be something totally different like "That NTR game is totally sick!" Arguing about the definition of NTR is as useful as arguing about the oxford comma. It goes no where.

The game tags are a guideline and are based on the opinion of the person posting them. So what if it is tagged as an NTR when it doesn't meet your definition? So what if it's NOT tagged as NTR when you think it should be. Why is this even an issue?

People need to relax and stop trying to force ideas on other people. There will always be people who disagree with you and will say you are wrong. This is okay! It's good to have a variety of opinions, but there is no need to shut someone down just because you don't agree with what they think.

Yes, because 'Mericans like to constantly change definitions to fit their preferences. This is why people are so easily offended these days. One person says something, meaning the original definition of the word/term/phrase, and some younger generation/person decides it's an offensive term, just cause they want it to mean something different.
May be just my opinion...but words don't change definitions. Generations just get more dumbed down.

FookU2 · Mar 3, 2021

microskills said:
View attachment 1063400
Damn those eggs sure pack a lot of estrogen.

Stan gots bewbs!!! lol

FookU2 · Mar 3, 2021

baka said:
I like the idea and the daughter looks good enough.
but Im not into the mother, so I skip her if possible. maybe some stockholm syndrome with the daughter could be fun.

I honestly agree on the mom. The daughter is hot, but the mom isn't all that good looking. She doesn't have too bad of a body, but the face and short hair just don't do it for me. The daughter's short hair kinda drops her attractiveness, as well, but at least the rest of her is decent haha

microskills · Mar 3, 2021

Geekbone said:
I am not sure why everyone is so hung up on an actual definition of NTR. NTR is no longer the exact definition you listed here and has become more of a feeling. If the reader/viewer gets that hole in the pit of their stomach or feel some anxiety at seeing a character, in the viewer's eyes/mind, be unfaithful or enjoy sex with another individual that they shouldn't be... that's NTR.

This is a common phenomena, especially in the English language. Original definitions or usages morph and change over time and NTR is no different. Look at words like awful, fine or commodity... All these words meant something totally different originally. Look at the work "sick" for example. That used to just mean sick as in health. Now it could be something totally different like "That NTR game is totally sick!" Arguing about the definition of NTR is as useful as arguing about the oxford comma. It goes no where.

The game tags are a guideline and are based on the opinion of the person posting them. So what if it is tagged as an NTR when it doesn't meet your definition? So what if it's NOT tagged as NTR when you think it should be. Why is this even an issue?

People need to relax and stop trying to force ideas on other people. There will always be people who disagree with you and will say you are wrong. This is okay! It's good to have a variety of opinions, but there is no need to shut someone down just because you don't agree with what they think.

I think the whole issue is due to the fact that NTR & cuckold story wise has a huge grey area which I think most patreon games is based on.

Since technically NTR is cuckolding, the premise is all the same i.e. partner is oblivious to their partner being unfaithful, until it's too late.
What people get caught up in I think is the literal definition of NTR, which is "to steal another's partner", which I think ultimately is pointless since it's just optics for the sake of feeling correct.

What is more fair I think to assess, is how cuckold & NTR stories diverge from each other:
NTR is mostly based around Stockholm syndrome, forced personality change (mind break) & relationship drama and push away love from the pedestal with showcasing that it's superficial when presented with our basic instinct.
Obviously there's more to it (revenge against bland non-confrontational anime characters, a twist on 2 secret lovers, etc.).

Cuckold from what I know, the story is based around humiliation and control, it usually follows a more symbiotic relationship (bull, cuck & partner?) as compared to Stockholm syndrome, the personality change is usually much more positive for the partner, bull & cuck and the relationship still is the same, only difference being what happens in bed.
Instead cuckold I think is most famous for it's external factors it adds into it's premise, such as "sissy", racial superiority/inferiority and tools (rules to follow, chastity belt, etc.).

Since most patreon games never fully commit to one or the other, they tend to mix the two into a sort of NTR-lite cuckold-lite mix.
I mean, just look at f95 own tag system, cheating & NTR is not strictly enforced.
Which is fine, but the puritans are sure to throw a fit.

baka said:
I like the idea and the daughter looks good enough.
but Im not into the mother, so I skip her if possible. maybe some stockholm syndrome with the daughter could be fun.

Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if it's part of the game and that "over time" she gets more beautiful as she is corrupted.
But I think a few touch ups to make her more in-line with the more "tomboy/nerd" look she's oozing out, would do good.

exazubi · Mar 4, 2021

Geekbone said:
I am not sure why everyone is so hung up on an actual definition of NTR. NTR is no longer the exact definition you listed here and has become more of a feeling. If the reader/viewer gets that hole in the pit of their stomach or feel some anxiety at seeing a character, in the viewer's eyes/mind, be unfaithful or enjoy sex with another individual that they shouldn't be... that's NTR.

This is a common phenomena, especially in the English language. Original definitions or usages morph and change over time and NTR is no different. Look at words like awful, fine or commodity... All these words meant something totally different originally. Look at the work "sick" for example. That used to just mean sick as in health. Now it could be something totally different like "That NTR game is totally sick!" Arguing about the definition of NTR is as useful as arguing about the oxford comma. It goes no where.

The game tags are a guideline and are based on the opinion of the person posting them. So what if it is tagged as an NTR when it doesn't meet your definition? So what if it's NOT tagged as NTR when you think it should be. Why is this even an issue?

People need to relax and stop trying to force ideas on other people. There will always be people who disagree with you and will say you are wrong. This is okay! It's good to have a variety of opinions, but there is no need to shut someone down just because you don't agree with what they think.

So, personally I have no problem at all. This is an erotic forum. And the tastes are different. And that should generally be respected.

For my part, I just love the stories that are just beginning to lead to eroticism. Because these create an arc of tension that whets the appetite for the actual act in the first place. Just like it is the case in a good film. And erotic games are often actually intended as interactive films.

To be honest, I don't care if what I see is vanilla, harem, lesbian, cheating, sharing NTR, etc. It has to fit the story. That's all. Yes, the atmosphere has to be right too, for you too.

The problem in this forum, however, is that many people just have no respect for other tastes. The majority of people here want to never see other men sexually active in games. Okay, that's acceptable. But there are also others who really want to see it. But that is just not respected. As soon as a developer dares to even announce that such content could be part of his/her game, a bad shit storm usually starts here. Which usually ends with the developer deleting this content or not developing it at all. Many people here imagine that their taste is paramount. And they have the expectation that every developer has to cuddle. And usually these people talk their way out with NTR as if this fetish was a deadly sin. And they also drag this fetish into the mud. And I just don't think that's okay. Conent with other men to declare a deadly sin also severely restricts the developers in their ability to tell stories.

So, in my opinion, every taste must be respected equally. And every developer must be allowed to incorporate what they want into their game. Even if it doesn't meet the taste of the majority. At least that's how I see it.

You see, i have no problem at all with the fact that other people have different tastes or opinions than me. That's perfectly fine. I only have a problem with this shitstorm behavior that I just described.

Hurit · Mar 8, 2021

Anyone got access to version 0.17?

NightKing0981 · Mar 8, 2021

0.17!!!!!!

Arys101 · Mar 10, 2021

Here's the update request thread.

https://f95zone.to/threads/the-point-of-no-return-0-17.76512/

Gold613 · Mar 10, 2021

Geekbone said:
I am not sure why everyone is so hung up on an actual definition of NTR. NTR is no longer the exact definition you listed here and has become more of a feeling. If the reader/viewer gets that hole in the pit of their stomach or feel some anxiety at seeing a character, in the viewer's eyes/mind, be unfaithful or enjoy sex with another individual that they shouldn't be... that's NTR.

This is a common phenomena, especially in the English language. Original definitions or usages morph and change over time and NTR is no different. Look at words like awful, fine or commodity... All these words meant something totally different originally. Look at the work "sick" for example. That used to just mean sick as in health. Now it could be something totally different like "That NTR game is totally sick!" Arguing about the definition of NTR is as useful as arguing about the oxford comma. It goes no where.

The game tags are a guideline and are based on the opinion of the person posting them. So what if it is tagged as an NTR when it doesn't meet your definition? So what if it's NOT tagged as NTR when you think it should be. Why is this even an issue?

People need to relax and stop trying to force ideas on other people. There will always be people who disagree with you and will say you are wrong. This is okay! It's good to have a variety of opinions, but there is no need to shut someone down just because you don't agree with what they think.

Look I dig your game and all, I personally don't care what tag a game has honestly, I don't care if it has cheating or NTR or both in it, I however have a very heavy dislike when it comes to shuving stuff in for the sake of just placing a tag there and give the game bad writing and breaking immersion.

And while you say you don't understand why people are so stuck up on the meaning yet turn around and say " People need to relax and stop trying to force ideas on other people. " Kinda is contradicting,

The tags are there for a reason and they have a meaning and plenty of games here do those tags and meaning zero justice, it's like with youtube people putting hashtags and end up with video's having nothing to do with the hashtags at all.
I can go in to a debate about it all I want but honestly I would have a better success talking to a brick wall while watching it's paint dry as that said brick wall has more common sense then most people on this forum ( this is not meant as an insult to you btw so if you take offense to it that is on you. )

I agree people have their own opinions and someone will always disagree. I however am of the opinion if you put a tag in that what they expect is actual NTR and not plain simple old cheating and subscribing same goes for if they do not see it but do see cheating and end up subbing and instead get NTR instead. I used the mention here for NTR mostly but this goes for every and all tags. Those tags are guidelines for people to choose what they want to avoid or search for. So the tags and their definition original definition do matter, that same goes for titles.

This is me merely giving in my 2 cents nothing more nothing less.

Again otherwise, I enjoy the story you are making and have no complaints.

SteelyDan14 · Mar 10, 2021

Gold613 said:
Look I dig your game and all, I personally don't care what tag a game has honestly, I don't care if it has cheating or NTR or both in it, I however have a very heavy dislike when it comes to shuving stuff in for the sake of just placing a tag there and give the game bad writing and breaking immersion.

And while you say you don't understand why people are so stuck up on the meaning yet turn around and say " People need to relax and stop trying to force ideas on other people. " Kinda is contradicting,

The tags are there for a reason and they have a meaning and plenty of games here do those tags and meaning zero justice, it's like with youtube people putting hashtags and end up with video's having nothing to do with the hashtags at all.
I can go in to a debate about it all I want but honestly I would have a better success talking to a brick wall while watching it's paint dry as that said brick wall has more common sense then most people on this forum ( this is not meant as an insult to you btw so if you take offense to it that is on you. )

I agree people have their own opinions and someone will always disagree. I however am of the opinion if you put a tag in that what they expect is actual NTR and not plain simple old cheating and subscribing same goes for if they do not see it but do see cheating and end up subbing and instead get NTR instead. I used the mention here for NTR mostly but this goes for every and all tags. Those tags are guidelines for people to choose what they want to avoid or search for. So the tags and their definition original definition do matter, that same goes for titles.

This is me merely giving in my 2 cents nothing more nothing less.

Again otherwise, I enjoy the story you are making and have no complaints.

To clarify... this is not my game.

I was responding to a post from someone who, I thought, was trying to insist they knew the exact definition of NTR. I was frustrated because, as I mentioned, people have their own views on things in general and it's okay to disagree, which was really my point... People are not going to agree on an exact definition of NTR.

It's the same as BDSM. I look for that tag and when I play the game, I rarely see what I consider BDSM or if it's there, it might be (IMO) kinda tame, in just one scene or some simple bondage. Is it frustrating? Can be... but I am not going to complain about the tags because my definition of BDSM is different from others.

That was all I was really trying to say in that post and it sounds as if we are on the same or similar pages.

Gold613 · Mar 10, 2021

Geekbone said:
To clarify... this is not my game.

I was responding to a post from someone who, I thought, was trying to insist they knew the exact definition of NTR. I was frustrated because, as I mentioned, people have their own views on things in general and it's okay to disagree, which was really my point... People are not going to agree on an exact definition of NTR.

It's the same as BDSM. I look for that tag and when I play the game, I rarely see what I consider BDSM or if it's there, it might be (IMO) kinda tame, in just one scene or some simple bondage. Is it frustrating? Can be... but I am not going to complain about the tags because my definition of BDSM is different from others.

That was all I was really trying to say in that post and it sounds as if we are on the same or similar pages.

Ah my bad I apologize I thought this was your game as I saw developer status, I usually don't pay too much attention on checking the name if they match as most of the time I usually only see Dev's mostly stick to their own games. So my bad.

And yeah from your better clarification here I agree we are pretty on same page.

exazubi · Mar 11, 2021

Geekbone said:
To clarify... this is not my game.

I was responding to a post from someone who, I thought, was trying to insist they knew the exact definition of NTR. I was frustrated because, as I mentioned, people have their own views on things in general and it's okay to disagree, which was really my point... People are not going to agree on an exact definition of NTR.

It's the same as BDSM. I look for that tag and when I play the game, I rarely see what I consider BDSM or if it's there, it might be (IMO) kinda tame, in just one scene or some simple bondage. Is it frustrating? Can be... but I am not going to complain about the tags because my definition of BDSM is different from others.

That was all I was really trying to say in that post and it sounds as if we are on the same or similar pages.

Please don't take this personally. I now say this in general:

If people really want to know the definition of NTR, they just need to enter the following search terms in google: erotic, NTR. And they are filled with information. One explains more or less text-heavy, but without exception all sources always say the same thing. It doesn't get more official than that. I have posted this definition, as well as others, in several threads. So I didn't come up with this definition by myself, it is based on research. And anyone can do this research themselves, at any time. The fact that the word NTR is still misunderstood and used wrong by more than 95 % of all people here in the forum is simply because they do not want to know it.

But personally I don't care whether people believe it or not. It would be enough for me if the so-called "NTR haters" didn't always haunt every thread that even comes close to going in this direction, then start a shitstorm and get developers to put these plans on hold, and break this games, one after another. There are simply people who want this content. And there are developers who want to produce it. That must finally be accepted. And from one day to the next every NTR dispute would immediately disappear from the forum.

In fact, however, I hardly know of any single thread about a game that is planned with such content where this dispute does not exist. I hope that will change soon. Because it's just another fetish of many. And it should be accepted just like anyone else. So far it has been treated as a deadly sin in the forum. And anyone who comes out as an NTR fan can count on hatred. I wonder what this is about. Unfortunately it is everyday life

SteelyDan14 · Mar 11, 2021

exazubi said:
Please don't take this personally. I now say this in general:

If people really want to know the definition of NTR, they just need to enter the following search terms in google: erotic, NTR. And they are filled with information. One explains more or less text-heavy, but without exception all sources always say the same thing. It doesn't get more official than that. I have posted this definition, as well as others, in several threads. So I didn't come up with this definition by myself, it is based on research. And anyone can do this research themselves, at any time. The fact that the word NTR is still misunderstood and used wrong by more than 95 % of all people here in the forum is simply because they do not want to know it.

But personally I don't care whether people believe it or not. It would be enough for me if the so-called "NTR haters" didn't always haunt every thread that even comes close to going in this direction, then start a shitstorm and get developers to put these plans on hold, and break this games, one after another. There are simply people who want this content. And there are developers who want to produce it. That must finally be accepted. And from one day to the next every NTR dispute would immediately disappear from the forum.

In fact, however, I hardly know of any single thread about a game that is planned with such content where this dispute does not exist. I hope that will change soon. Because it's just another fetish of many. And it should be accepted just like anyone else. So far it has been treated as a deadly sin in the forum. And anyone who comes out as an NTR fan can count on hatred. I wonder what this is about. Unfortunately it is everyday life

This discussion is about to become kind of circular and there are entire threads devoted to this discussion so we should probably stop here before a moderator steps in and tells us to stop as this thread should just be about this game and not board "policy". I do, however, appreciate where you are coming from.

Gold613 · Mar 11, 2021

exazubi said:
So far it has been treated as a deadly sin in the forum. And anyone who comes out as an NTR fan can count on hatred. I wonder what this is about. Unfortunately it is everyday life

{Edit added}
This game in itself I personally think falls under blackmail and much less on cheating even though it is cheating, she is pretty much blackmailed in to it, so she has a choice of fighting and putting the daughter at risk or use herself and hope to protect her child. So this game in itself is unique on what it is, I like the writing so far and how it is done. Sure depending on the route she may like it or enjoy it while doing or whatever but we are not that far in yet. Am curious to see on how this turns out further down the line as it from iirc, those convicts are there for only 2 weeks.

The problem here as far as I have noted is not that people hate NTR Fans, or NTR in itself, it is the bad writing and immersion or adding something for the sake of having it, the other issue is that you have NTR Fans and "NTR Fans", Like you have said you have posted multiple times for the explanation or definition there of and there is also the problem of are we talking in NTR as in Netorare or Netorase which both get put under the banner of NTR. It all depends who is doing the cheating, The simple best example you can have for what it comes down to is cuckold/cuckqueen however that definition has been also skewed based on when it is used as a kink/fetish, in case of a kink fetish it is with the SO knowing and participation of it as a kink where as if it is not a kink and it is happening behind ones back that means it is cheating but making it significantly worse.

In other words by having the tags and following the formula for most games, this is happening without the SO knowing of the situation in most cases. However it is hard to put tags and explain if it is a kink for the story or if it is following the actual meaning for the story or if it is added as a tag for the kink for the playing it ( if it makes sense as to what I am saying )

Now with that out of the way, I don't care if something has NTR or Cheating in it, I don't mind em at all, same goes for Lesbian or whatever other tag you can think of. What I care about is good writing and actors staying in character. If a character has a certain personality and you can see how they handle certain situations or get out of certain mess but end up being a plain old retard who suddenly does not know what to do when he finds out something is happening behind his back it means it break character and following that route all you see is a bunch of mindless bullshittery going on and everyone is out of character then it just kills the story for most of those people. It is not inherently NTR tags or games that have this issue but the sad truth it this happens to 90% of the games containing that content. Same goes for Incest as I have seen that also have some push back and crazy discussions happening, it is however not even remotely close to the NTR tag.

And most discussions I have seen about NTR I see a lot of those who do not want the NTR in certain games or to be added later when "NTR Fans" demand it have very good arguments to it where they fully explain why it is not needed or required and as the story is it is fine, but they get labled as " NTR Haters " while they are not, it is the same when you have an existing franchise or series of comic books and all of a sudden want to "Modernize" it and in the process destroying one or more beloved characters just to cater to days "standards" in the process erasing the character completely making them unrecognizable to anyone if it was not for the sole reason of simply having the same name and costume.

I like and enjoy good writing but adding something for the sake of adding it is stupid and ridiculous and people have every right to point that out.

Now I am merely giving my 2 cents and opinion but I am also explaining most people their views on this so it also goes that while I am answering mostly to you with my opinion this is also meant for in general to anyone else.

PS: And to clarify I am not attacking you or anything and if you feel wronged or offended that is solely on you. I write this in most of my comments now a days because some people get offended by anything now a days and forget that offense is taken not given and as such while I meant non, if they take to it then it is on them.

Chriss67210 · Mar 12, 2021

0.17

art199 · Mar 14, 2021

exazubi said:
So, personally I have no problem at all. This is an erotic forum. And the tastes are different. And that should generally be respected.

For my part, I just love the stories that are just beginning to lead to eroticism. Because these create an arc of tension that whets the appetite for the actual act in the first place. Just like it is the case in a good film. And erotic games are often actually intended as interactive films.

To be honest, I don't care if what I see is vanilla, harem, lesbian, cheating, sharing NTR, etc. It has to fit the story. That's all. Yes, the atmosphere has to be right too, for you too.

The problem in this forum, however, is that many people just have no respect for other tastes. The majority of people here want to never see other men sexually active in games. Okay, that's acceptable. But there are also others who really want to see it. But that is just not respected. As soon as a developer dares to even announce that such content could be part of his/her game, a bad shit storm usually starts here. Which usually ends with the developer deleting this content or not developing it at all. Many people here imagine that their taste is paramount. And they have the expectation that every developer has to cuddle. And usually these people talk their way out with NTR as if this fetish was a deadly sin. And they also drag this fetish into the mud. And I just don't think that's okay. Conent with other men to declare a deadly sin also severely restricts the developers in their ability to tell stories.

So, in my opinion, every taste must be respected equally. And every developer must be allowed to incorporate what they want into their game. Even if it doesn't meet the taste of the majority. At least that's how I see it.

You see, i have no problem at all with the fact that other people have different tastes or opinions than me. That's perfectly fine. I only have a problem with this shitstorm behavior that I just described.

So true !

JokerLeader · Mar 17, 2021

The Point of No Return [v0.17] [DS23Games]

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