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Mod Ren'Py Abandoned Time For Dragons - Defiler Wings: Deranged Dragon Mod [29-07-2020] [Jman]

3.50 star(s) 8 Votes

Jman9

Engaged Member
Jul 17, 2019
2,295
961
I never asked for a fully fleshed out experience.
No, but I don't really like to wholly half-ass features.

sorry about the "discuss the specifics and details in private" part.
No problem. As I've said before, you can do your own mods without my explicit approval, or even over my refusal. If you want them included in the main mod, though...

If you want, try it out. Then tell me why it's bad and you hate it and I'll give up.
It's... barebones. I don't particularly hate it or like it, but if I wanted to do something like that, I have what I think are better and more balanced ideas. They're at the bottom of the list, if at that, though.

mate with maiden followers
Already in the WIP version, without pregnant followers going into combat, and most interactions are available from the 'normal' interaction screen.

Now, regarding balance, the way I see that, is that it's a lost cause to begin with.
Which is the complete opposite of my intentions with the mod. If something is too easy, I'll tweak it to make it harder. If something is impossible, I'll make it less so. It might take a while for this to filter down into a release, and I don't catch all of it (which is why you fine people are here to tell me about exploits :D ), but that's not a reason to give up.

It represents loyalty
As I said, I don't believe in a big bad dragon inspiring loyalty. Fear, absolutely. Bootlicking, definitely. Some SS-style affection, maybe. Worship, possibly. Genuine loyalty? That has to be reciprocal.

Anyway, if you're happy with it, good. I find this loyalty mechanic wholly artificial, and, as I said before, would make an actual 'affection' mechanic instead, if I had the time and motivation.

talk/chat option that does not exist as of now (tried briefly, failed miserably, bailed
That would actually be something I could use, even if not in the immediate future. If you have a design doc or something, I'd be interested in seeing it.

Upon pregnancy, followers have their potential max stats (hp, atk, atm) set to
Given that you can have dozens of pregnancies, and thus exponential growth, that is stupendously unbalanced. :cry: Not to mention that I'm trying to make girl minions less attractive overall...

As I said before, I'm moving to a 'hatchling' model, and egg quality therefore matters less than it used to. You still get a more useful hatchling that matures more quickly, and maybe even a grown one, but the stat caps are still there, lower than before, and the maturing process takes perhaps a few months. Having more random eggs that average a little higher is largely just flavour.

Or don't try at all because romance is not in Defiler Wings and it shouldn't
It could be. But this is not it, or it is for very few people like yourself. Players these days have some serious expectations.

Also, I'm new to the site and lowkey concerned I am breaking some rule by for example uploading files.
I heavily doubt it. But the mods here can be a shitshow at times. :(

Edit: Linked it into the OP for others to try out if they wish.

Edit2:
While certainly possible, it would require an overhaul of the likes that are far beyond what can be reasonably asked for within years
Not years. I think I could do something like that it in a week's worth of work. A full week, that is. It would have crappy writing, limited art, and postpone all the more interesting stuff on my todo list. That's why I'm not doing it.

Ravager also does it better, doesn't have the same art constraints, and is generally superiour at making you care about the womenfolk.

Secondly, I myself do not even believe in romance being "fully fleshed out" in media, much less in a source like this game. It is too constrained by trivialities, too shallow, too etc.
I don't think so. That same imagination you were talking about can fill in a lot of gaps, but you have to give it considerable material to work with if you want the result to be memorable. I'm very much not into romance (when I still watched TV, I used to take a break when a Hollywood-mandated affection scene was happening), but I've read several books with romance I really liked. For instance, the Sharing Knife series by Lois McMaster Bujold. There's nice world-building, interesting social customs, everyone had agency and the romance didn't feel tacked on, shallow or sentimental. On the contrary, it was the larger half of the motivation the protagonists had to do what they did, they faced problems due to it and persevered. Another one I recall vividly was Brother's Price by Wen Spencer, which was basically a gender-swap version of Cinderella, except the prince was a harem of princesses, some quite tough. :sneaky: And Cinderella was the eldest of four brothers among 32 siblings, which was considered a very good ratio.

The thing to note is that both the above authors are women, and this generally tends to hold true for anything that has interesting romance in it. While this dragon-rape thing is very much something most women would have a very hard time connecting with.
 
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1953598523

Newbie
Aug 13, 2017
48
15
milk restores hit points, but does not give a drop of satiety - it may be worth adding satiety when drinking milk ( ~5-10m to 1s)
 

Steve_The_Bear

New Member
Jan 10, 2018
14
4
I've just started playing the game and was a massive fan of Defiler Wings but whenever I launch I don't see the menu I just start in game as Big Brother. Does this happen to anyone else? And if so how did you fix it?
 

Jman9

Engaged Member
Jul 17, 2019
2,295
961
...whenever I launch I don't see the menu I just start in game as Big Brother.
You're so bad at the game that BB decided to not let you faff about and took over. :p

Does this happen to anyone else?
Occasionally. Most likely cause is undeleted settings from a previous installation of Time for Dragons.

And if so how did you fix it?
Disable debug mode from the options. If that somehow fails, nuke your save directories, both in the game directory and the Ren'Py user directory (usually something like 'users/[user]/AppData/Roaming/RenPy/Time_for_Dragons'; consoling config.savedir will tell you exactly where it is).
 

Steve_The_Bear

New Member
Jan 10, 2018
14
4
You're so bad at the game that BB decided to not let you faff about and took over. :p


Occasionally. Most likely cause is undeleted settings from a previous installation of Time for Dragons.


Disable debug mode from the options. If that somehow fails, nuke your save directories, both in the game directory and the Ren'Py user directory (usually something like 'users/[user]/AppData/Roaming/RenPy/Time_for_Dragons'; consoling config.savedir will tell you exactly where it is).
Haha! That worked time to die over and over while I learn the systems again!
 

camistrie

Newbie
Mar 6, 2019
30
4
So I'm doing a playthrough as a terror dragon and might have broken my game.

At large size and with a fair number of fear-raising evolutions (shadow scale, etc), I do a significant amount of hp damage when attempting to rape or torture captives. Most nobles, burghers, and nuns (with 20 or so hp) cannot not survive mating unless I lock them up first and grind affection to 50+ first. It's not a hard lock but this is gimping my progress pretty hard. Using console magic to change the shadow scales to something that does not generate fear drops the damage during rape to something more reasonable, like 2-5 hp damage.

On the contrary torture does a bit less damage than rape, but only raises affection by a trivial amount (1-2 points) so it does not seem like a useful mechanic even though it's one of the reasons you want to have high fear.

Is this intended behavior? I feel like high fear should result in less damage during rape (less likely to resist), but since fear gives you free girls without having to fight for them I suppose there's a chance this may be WAD.
 

Jman9

Engaged Member
Jul 17, 2019
2,295
961
So I'm doing a playthrough as a terror dragon...
I have some plans to make fearsome dragons better, but it's quite a bit of work and I'm busy with other things ATM. :(

Most nobles, burghers, and nuns (with 20 or so hp) cannot not survive mating unless I lock them up first and grind affection to 50+ first.
Well, there's got to be a reward for torturing them for a long while. Princesses are supposed to languish in prison a lot. :p

It's not a hard lock but this is gimping my progress pretty hard.
Mermaids? You don't really have to use nobles or nuns, who are the worst in this respect, since they're both squishy and resilient to torture.

On the contrary torture does a bit less damage than rape, but only raises affection by a trivial amount (1-2 points) so it does not seem like a useful mechanic even though it's one of the reasons you want to have high fear.
Rape does a lot of damage with high fear because it's four checks instead of one (going with each phase of the rape), and fear is applied for all of them. I implemented it that way mainly for simulation, not as a deliberate design choice.

Affection changes are directly tied to HP loss and the hidden dignity stat, so they're largely the same for 'regular' torture and rape. Raping and most torture mean 1.5 HP lost per affection/dignity gained (that's division, not just a slash :) ). Poison and clawing are 2.0, lightning and terror torture are 1.0.

Torture does little damage because this way you can 'dial' the appropriate amounts of torture and leave her alive. As a bonus, severely weakened gals have a lot of trouble trying to run away.

High fear means the 'fear' torture becomes stronger (per lust point spent), and that is the most efficient one besides lightning. And not all dragons have lightning.

Is this intended behavior? I feel like high fear should result in less damage during rape (less likely to resist), but since fear gives you free girls without having to fight for them I suppose there's a chance this may be WAD.
Well, sorta. The free girls aren't that good ROI per stamina spent. But high fear isn't about immediately eliminating resistance, it's about being better at scaring them to compliance or even death. Like all the other enemies who can also have heart attacks mid-combat. Resistance itself is measured through affection.


In any case, I'm not terribly attached to this model. If someone has better ideas, I'm willing to listen.
 

TBell

New Member
May 23, 2017
4
1
Quick note: On the character inspect pane, it would be nice if there were a 'heal with milk' button that just auto-uses your cheapest milk to full health. Long torture and healing sessions become incredibly tedious with the Torture > Back > Treasury > Milk > Item > Victim > Captives > Victim > Torture loop. This is especially bad on weaker targets. Trying to get a princess from 50-100 fear takes 35+ trips into the treasury. It doesn't have a role play value to navigate the menus, its just frustrating.
 

Jman9

Engaged Member
Jul 17, 2019
2,295
961
Good idea. Done.

You can test it by using the attached scripts, which also fiddle a little with affection gains and torture. If these work, I'll make a new hotfix.
 

Jman9

Engaged Member
Jul 17, 2019
2,295
961
You mean an adult game? Sengoku Rance and similar games (Alicesoft has a number of them), perhaps. I have another insane mod like this for a simbro game, but that one's dead ATM (the mod, not the game). Kingdom of Deception, Pytfall, Renryuu Ascension, Roundscape: Adorevia, Goblin Burrow are somewhat similar in various aspects. I'm sure there's more.

Non-adult, lots and lots. Any in-depth RPG. Darkest Dungeon and Battle Brothers, possibly. There are even dragon games, Hoard is conceptually very similar, although real-time and has multiplayer. I also recall there being a semi-popular Japanese dragon game, but can't put a name to it right now.
 
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Carryon

Member
Apr 19, 2017
130
616
Cool mod!

Still wrapping my head around it, but I'm most frustrated by thieves since their mechanics seem the most obfuscated of the early game threats. As in, whilst they keep getting past my traps and guards, they don't have easily available statlines like knights do for me to gauge how much stronger I should be to take them on. Read earlier in the thread that they may be cheesed by having them procure a cursed sleeping powder, but is there a way to know whether or not it's cursed from the event itself?

Also, there's mentions of how some Poverty is desirable since it helps keep Mobilization manageable, but too much of it can have it spiral out of control. Makes sense, but I was wondering about the rough numerical estimates of what constitutes 'too much'. Any rules of thumb on that regard?

All of this on what I surmise to be early game still, on Normal difficulty.

Regardless, good stuff.
 

Jman9

Engaged Member
Jul 17, 2019
2,295
961
As in, whilst they keep getting past my traps and guards, they don't have easily available statlines like knights do for me to gauge how much stronger I should be to take them on.
Well, there's no such easy gauge against thievery in RL, either. You either get them, or fail and improve your security. The smuggler report does tell you what they're particularly strong or weak against.

Read earlier in the thread that they may be cheesed by having them procure a cursed sleeping powder, but is there a way to know whether or not it's cursed from the event itself?
There's a specific picture and text that accompanies cursed item acquisition.

Poverty
Any rules of thumb on that regard?
5 Poverty counters 1 Mobilization. Every 25 Poverty slows down recovery, so over 50 is probably starting to get bad.

I don't know if there are any more practical rules, since I haven't actually played enough with it myself. Maybe other players know better.

Regardless, good stuff.
Thank you. It's a grind-heavy enterprise, so take a break or cheat if it gets too much for you.
 

dongdong42069

Newbie
Oct 11, 2020
45
8
Hey abobo, great mod (of the mod), but I get an error every time I finish a battle with goblins, id imagine it's because goblins cannot gain loyalty?
 

Bonercat

Newbie
Apr 14, 2021
62
12
sorry for late reply, my laptop get strike by blue screen right after that last comment and just recently it finally fixed, i dont know is it get changed or not now, but i think you misunderstood some of my comment that i dont think i can just left it as is, so i make this reply, the rest i can accept your reasoning.

- Bonercat said:
food warehouse

your reply - Dragons aren't really into that 'farming and granaries' thing, you know? :p

thats true if we only focus or talking about the dragon, but since we also have troops and prisoner to take care off, food supply is essential for them realistically, and our lair is literally the front bastion/outpost out of the mother territory thats mean we cant use the excuse that the mother deliver food supply to our place.

- Bonercat said:
why not implement it for the lair itself, and it can help some micromanagement

your reply - It'll 'help' in the sense of 'introduce meaningless micro where there was none before'. :cautious: I'm still not seeing any great improvement over the current situation.

well if you think so, i personally think this can add more immersion and challenge to balance between how many troop/servant and prisoner to micromanage.

- Bonercat said:
but i hope this mod can at least make the choice matter, rather than no matter what i choose the queen spawn fuck the queen in the end.

your reply- Both Gwidon and the dragon can fuck her in the end. Having a Gwidon-exclusive scene in the middle when the dragon has already had his turn is of no great consequence, unless you have some sort of strong 'anti-NTR' fetish. I don't care about the latter at all, and anyone who wants all women in the game to be exclusively theirs can either make a submod for that, or accept the mod for what it is.

this part is not what i mean, theres a two option when we met them, one never mention to gwidon to fuck the queen and another force gwidon to fuck the queen, when i choose to never mention it, later on gwidon turns out still fuck the queen like i have order it. making that choice pointless and meaningless, do you get what i mean now? i dont mind NTR if its optional, but i definitely dont want it when it force on to me, especially when it somehow put into the important part in the middle of the story at or to unlock important place without any reasonable meaning , i wont mind if its some small unimportant quest/event that we can ignore, and even more so that we suppose to play as some strong dragon, which you can argue if the dragon still small or weak, but when the dragon is the biggest and strongest you still get that, then i dont like it, its the same feeling i get when the fairy event in the original times of dragon no matter how big my dragon is he get intimidate by a glare of a fairy, thats make him pathetic.

your reply- Edit: Youre too focused on Gwidon being a greenskin. Gwidon is not an orc, he's an immensely powerful magical creature that looks like an orc (because of the original script and Sabia fucking orcs all game long

dont take that too seriously, its just a jab/joke, and even if he actually a half dragon or something, him breeding the queen to get some unique monster spawn the dragon cant get make more sense to me, rather than simply just a whim.

-That's your problem. I feel like the dragon is spending quality time with his son. :p And I don't have unlimited poses available to Sabia, I can only use what's there.

there exist where the dragon original form fuck sabia though, if you want to reuse that for the second one, considering when you fuck him at first in the castle with that form result in fighting the arc mage.


- Bonercat said:
also i forgot to ask this, and this one kinda offtopic, may i know the cartoon name for the gwidon event?

your reply - Which one? Most of the Queen-related stuff is from Kingdom of Deception. The 'fight' images are some sort of generic Warcraft orc, I think. Might be a named character, I'm not very knowledgeable in anything Warcraft past WC2 or so

the cartoon where the king order the men to throw them inside a barrel to the sea.


-Bonercat said:
thanks will try to check it, hmm....well as much as being milk by the witch is fun, it just kinda disturb the dragon pride, would be nice to have alternative way to learn magic, maybe finding magic book like necronomicon or something.

your reply- Dragon magic and human magic are kinda different, though, so purely book learning is likely not going to work. And you can stop the milkings after you've done the initial 10 buckets. I might add the Witch to the endgame sometime in the far, far future, so you'll have revenge to look forward to, as well. :sneaky:

pretty sure theres a scene where the dragon read all the witch book to learn magic though after the milking, regarding book drop i was thinking the arcmage can drop his book or something after you manage to beat it, his book probably have dragon magic in it, he his the capital arc mage that can contest against a dragon after all, or you can make the dragon require many book before he learn magic through trial and error, this one probably get from treasure or normal wizard or mage event i guess outside of require the arc mage book to complete it if you want.
 

Jman9

Engaged Member
Jul 17, 2019
2,295
961
...I get an error every time I finish a battle with goblins, id imagine it's because goblins cannot gain loyalty?
Very likely. Try the attachment, although I'm not guaranteeing anything else isn't broken.

food supply is essential
Food supply is abstracted as monetary upkeep. You can imagine whatever specific accommodations you want (monthly supply runs and warehousing, goblins hanging out in nearby village taverns, the dragon flying around with a rucksack and trading with hunters, etc).

i personally think this can add more immersion and challenge to balance between how many troop/servant and prisoner to micromanage.
Prisoners already have a number of limits (free cages/pits, lair size, runaway chance, upkeep, etc). Minions will be getting a hard cap as well. A form of balance between the two already exists via cages and draining.

Immersion I'll grant you, but I am still not seeing any actual benefits to gameplay. And this is a strategy-oriented mod, so a conflict between immersion and gameplay will always be resolved in favour of the latter.

but i hope this mod can at least make the choice matter, rather than no matter what i choose the queen spawn fuck the queen in the end.
Okay, I suppose I can disable the final fucking if you didn't 'corrupt' Gwidon.

making that choice pointless and meaningless, do you get what i mean now?
i dont mind NTR if its optional, but i definitely dont want it when it force on to me
The mod is not a 'choose your fetish' VN. You don't get to pick not to sacrifice, or not to eat farm animals, either. I'm changing it because it's somewhat inconsistent (although it's not inconceivable that Gwidon would fuck her anyway after a while), not because I want to support an array of player fetish options.

the dragon is the biggest and strongest you still get that, then i dont like it
The dragon isn't omnipotent. He loses to the Demon Prince without Mom's support, no matter how well the initial battle goes. He is outwitted by the Elder Witch, most likely. If I ever get to reimplementing betraying the Mistress, she's going to be more powerful than him, and victory will come through luck and planning. And Gwidon is an entity on par with Architot as a child. The dragon is simply unable to challenge him at all, ever. The WIP version has it so that you'll get to try to take the Queen, and die.

him breeding the queen to get some unique monster spawn the dragon cant get make more sense to me, rather than simply just a whim.
Gwidon is already such a unique monster himself, created through the Witch's magic and as a culmination of decades if not centuries of planning. Neither the dragon nor him have any skills like that, or even any ability to learn them. What would be the point of another somewhat supernatural orcling, anyway?

there exist where the dragon original form fuck sabia though, if you want to reuse that for the second one
Well, yeah, but why should big D get all the fun? Gwidon and the Queen are in a sort of relationship, one the dragon isn't part of. I am really not going to go down the road of providing all sorts of branching storylines because some player feels like he should get his pick of the hole or whatever. Ravager already does that far better, and is in moderate dev hell because of it.

the cartoon where the king order the men to throw them inside a barrel to the sea.
Ah, that. , a pretty neat Soviet-time cartoon.

pretty sure theres a scene where the dragon read all the witch book to learn magic
There's a picture of him reading a presumably magic book. Whether that actually helped him learn anything, or it was just the Witch dressing him up to get another laugh... :p

i was thinking the arcmage can drop his book or something after you manage to beat it, his book probably have dragon magic in it
This is an archmage, not an apprentice. Archmages don't leave their spellbooks accessible to enemies. Or if they do, those are boobytrapped and will make very small pieces of whoever tries to use them.

dragon require many book before he learn magic through trial and error
Draconic magic just isn't the same as human magic. I'm not going to gate existing spells any further, and adding new (or old DW) ones is a distant dream ATM.
 

Bonercat

Newbie
Apr 14, 2021
62
12
Okay, I suppose I can disable the final fucking if you didn't 'corrupt' Gwidon.

Ah, that. , a pretty neat Soviet-time cartoon.
ok thanks .

though i kinda dont like the idea of a hard cap for minion number though, unless i misunderstood what you mean with it.

also are the straight horn part for the dragon (kinda forgot the name not playing it for quite long , theres two type horn one is curved and one is straight) something resembling unicorn pair of horns where the horn straight up protuding like unicorn horns? because the way i read the description it seems like that, or is it something like this kind of horn?

https://attachments.f95zone.to/2021...gons__Monster_Kingdom_01.06.2021_22_45_41.png

also i kinda forgot to add this one
Um, torturing a minion is likely to result in a minion that just runs away because why are you doing it to them while there's perfectly good womanflesh around for that? And if there's none, go and get some! That is, I don't particularly like the idea of torturing minions. With fighting, there are trade-offs, but torture would be a mild cheat and not make a lot of sense (for a minion-using dragon, anyway). And it would dilute the usefulness of captives as a resource to toughen up minions.

Plus, goblins aren't 'specialised' in torture, they're just very enthusiastic about it
i was thinking to use it to disciplining them so their chance to run away or eating the prisoner is slimmer like roman decimation method, though i do read the other reply that apparently torturing give them exp, which isnt it already cheating anyway even if you use prisoner? beside prisoner already has other function anyway.
 
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3.50 star(s) 8 Votes