Mod Ren'Py Abandoned Time For Dragons - Defiler Wings: Deranged Dragon Mod [29-07-2020] [Jman]

3.50 star(s) 8 Votes

Jman9

Engaged Member
Jul 17, 2019
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5 and a half pages of my advice
Pretty nicely written. (y)

I suppose the main thing about both TfD and DDM is that they are 'veteran player' games, for people who already have experience with DW and are not afraid to experiment. They are also not professional productions, so expecting lots of tooltips and guidance is a bit too much.

Some notes, a number of which depend on future updates. In no particular order:
  • What's so bad about the Lady's tips? I lifted them from DW, so they might be a little out of date, but I don't think they're fundamentally useless. Well, except for the one that says 'Steal and Kill'. :p
  • Blue head is good, but bronze, gold, steel and grey are also nice starter choices, for digging, magic access (which will become very important for impregnation), physical resists or the ability to almost reach the 5 fear threshold.
  • Most low-mid-tier enemies and up will be getting 20-50% physical resistance and 10-33% water/sound resistance, making the elemental heads considerably better again.
  • Access to the sea is not that powerful. Mermaids are considerably tougher to actually subdue, and are between citizens and nuns as far as breeding goes. Eating too much tuna will deplete the stock quickly and you'll be better off with feeding on farm animals, again. The grotto is nice, but satiety limits will seriously limit expansion at the start of the game, compared to e.g. a mansion.
  • Seafood isn't inherently better than countryside. Tuna gives 10 or 40, but 40 will pretty much start killing off the tuna events fast. Fishermen are 30, tied with cattle and eating a gooseherder along with the geese.
  • 1 Kingdom-wise fear will not allow you to extort anything from the villagers. The lowest threshold is 2.
  • Treasure-finding events will have a dragon level roll to succeed, so low-level dragons won't really benefit from them without hardcore save-scumming. :p
  • There will be small power requirements to many events, so a tiny dragon isn't going to be capsizing boats or stealing cattle in the very beginning.
  • For combat, you can get milked and spend that 1 gold on the weakest ritual to temporarily boost your stats.
  • I'll make the mercenaries more expensive, at 20s/1s and 50c/5c. You're right that 1000 days of service for one gold is a lot.
  • A lizardman minion is also significantly more powerful than the mercenaries, much cheaper in upkeep, doesn't leave immediately when you hit 0 gold, and can be sent to the Army or lizardman tribe.
  • I'll pull Ichor Blood back to 60 XP. Short paws at 50 XP have an opportunity cost of blocking the more powerful paw options.
I could also make the sea inaccessible until you have a set of paws in addition to the Blue head, but IDK if it's that hot an idea.

just have to find intel number that lets them reach the lair and wake the dragon.
100.

This might be causing a 2nd ice lair to appear?
I know about the two jotun events, but I still only get one castle total under 'locations' after both of them. Or do you mean something else?
 

zzczys

Active Member
Jul 20, 2019
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I thought of having fleeing fireling and mermaid events but i think thats too easy to get those girls.
 
Aug 18, 2020
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Where is the option to be milked for money? Attached is a visual "problem" where it shows 2 not able to hire buttons, not necessary to fix. The next two screen caps are my witch coven screens, base and perform a ritual with 0 money.

In the current version, you can spend a straight gold for a temporary +10 hp boost at tiny level, or you can in theory but two separate brigands and keep their services for a full 30 days, more than enough to hit a lone farm and rob it for a couple more gold. And to get that 1 gold, yeah, you have to save scum. Just the nature of it, no consistent way to get money past save scumming the mountains or the sea. Also, every dragon I start with has 2 kingdom wide fear, be it Twilight, or Golden. You can force tribute from both a lone farm and a small village with that much displayed fear. Lizardmen from both Green and Forest hatcheries require too much effort compared to mercs, and no. In my opinion, jusst worse. They have less HP, and that is basically the most important attribute in the current system where both parties hit at the same time. If a speed stat was strenuosly and difficultly added, then blitz minions like the leafzard and the ravager would be useful. But they arent, so only Frostpaws, Juggernauts, and brigands are useful. Both leafzards and lizards are better suited to being emergency food stocks, immediatly being dumped into the lizard village without a second thought when your exp really starts rolling in. The 100 lizards necessary to complete the Dark Army quest takes too much exp. If it detected the current force of the army rather than the amount of blood-kin in the lair, this would be solved. The dog sshould have a bit of a nastier bite IMO and halved health, or at least 5 less health. Taking down a (albeit disorganized) group of humans taking only 50% more effort than a fucking mutt is stupid. Excuse me if I come off as aggressive but RN I am tired and not horny, so my final message until I fall asleep: PLAY YOUR FUCKING GAME AS IT IS CURRENTLY UPLOADED. It straight up requires hardcore savescumming as many of the features you say are there, most pertinantly milking for money, are goddamn absent! Again, sorry for the aggression, I appreciate the effort put into making a mod and putting it out here for free, and also responding to questions, taking feedback, and still coding by yourself.
 

zzczys

Active Member
Jul 20, 2019
911
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Spawn stats depend on the egg level, which depends on the mother. Power stat I believe so. A pregnancy that deflowers the mother gives better eggs.

No coin means you dont have enough coin to hire. Although it would be better if the options were not displayed, like the witch buff menu you captured.

100 lizard spawn?? I remember theres quests for 1 of each type, then have x number of spawn. That would unlock the breeding pit which speeds up pregnancy. Mama will tell you this when chatting to her.
 

Jman9

Engaged Member
Jul 17, 2019
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Where is the option to be milked for money?
The Witch -> 'Restore Mana' gives you one gold for each 'extra' lust that doesn't go towards mana recovery.

Attached is a visual "problem" where it shows 2 not able to hire buttons
Good catch, easily fixed.

In the current version, you can spend a straight gold for a temporary +10 hp boost at tiny level, or you can in theory but two separate brigands and keep their services for a full 30 days, more than enough to hit a lone farm and rob it for a couple more gold.
Mercenaries are a bit OP right now, but if they cost 1s per day, I hope that will change. And that +10HP boost can still be used on top of employing them.

You might also hurt your dragon's pride by relying on human mercs. :p

And to get that 1 gold, yeah, you have to save scum. Just the nature of it, no consistent way to get money past save scumming the mountains or the sea.
Milking. Exists in the uploaded version as well. Or robbing the weak peasant girls once you hit power 2. The latter is temporarily doable with two milkings, buying magic meat from the lizardmen, and using a +2 ATK head.

Edit: You can also micro the milking, since lust generates faster than actions in the beginning. And hitting the small farms/villages is actually a decent strategy for the start, when poverty and infamy are mostly good things.

Also, every dragon I start with has 2 kingdom wide fear, be it Twilight, or Golden. You can force tribute from both a lone farm and a small village with that much displayed fear.
Hmm, indeed you do and can. That will get changed to 0 starting fear, and thresholds at 2 and 4, respectively.

Lizardmen from both Green and Forest hatcheries require too much effort compared to mercs, and no. In my opinion, jusst worse.
I mean the new Lizardmen, who range from 20HP/2-4DAM Kobolds to 60HP/4-6DAM actual Lizardmen to 120HP/6DAM armored Frostpaws. Most of these are out of your reach in the early game, but you can get 'deflowering eggs' from peasants and townswomen that produce Cockatrices and Basilisks at 30HP/2-6DAM(poison) and 60HP/4-10DAM(acid)/armor.

All of these are much better than the 40HP/2-6DAM brigand guards with light armor. I did say that my comments aren't entirely based on the release version.

The current lizardmen are admittedly pretty wimpy, but they can improve twice as fast as the brigands.

They have less HP, and that is basically the most important attribute in the current system where both parties hit at the same time.
Not true. A critter with 100 HP and 2 damage will stalemate one with 20 HP and 10 damage, and a balanced version with 60 HP and 6 damage will beat both. All of these are considered equivalent-powered right now, but power isn't really used for combat.

If a speed stat was strenuosly and difficultly added, then blitz minions like the leafzard and the ravager would be useful.
Well, certain attack-oriented minions are somewhat weaker, mostly due to the new armor rules. But a speed stat won't change anything beyond one round's worth of damage, since combats tend to go on for a while. If that's the deciding factor, the outcome was already pretty much in question.

Edit2: I'll experimentally extend the 'fear' feature in combat so that for every point of attack mastery one combatant has over the other, there will be a 5% chance of parrying the attack for half damage. Attack mastery was kinda weak, anyway.

The 100 lizards necessary to complete the Dark Army quest takes too much exp.
XP? :cautious:

If it detected the current force of the army rather than the amount of blood-kin in the lair, this would be solved.
I'll change it to requiring the army has 1000 of your own children in it. Sounds suitably epic. You'll want about 2500 of them, total, anyway.

The dog sshould have a bit of a nastier bite IMO and halved health, or at least 5 less health. Taking down a (albeit disorganized) group of humans taking only 50% more effort than a fucking mutt is stupid.
The dog is almost as weak as an enemy can be, with only 10HP above the absolute minimum. A 30HP/1-4DAM peasant will, on average, kill two 20HP/1-2DAM dogs in single combat, with ~6HP to spare. One vs two, the peasant will lose, but will still kill a dog before being defeated. I see nothing 'stupid' here. If anything, the dogs are underpowered compared to RL.

PLAY YOUR FUCKING GAME AS IT IS CURRENTLY UPLOADED
If I did that, guess how much it'd push back the release date of any and all updates? :sneaky: Not to mention that it would replace all my actual testing of the WIP version with ultimately useless playtime. I get that you're frustrated, and bear you no ill will for that, but do consider what you're proposing for a little bit before going ALL CAPS.

It straight up requires hardcore savescumming
I'm a religious savescummer, so that comment will just slide off me like water. :p

many of the features you say are there, most pertinantly milking for money, are goddamn absent!
This is true in general, but milking for money existed even in the original Time for Dragons.

100 lizard spawn??
The 'Army of Darkness' quest, the one just before you have to raise 1 000 000 gold.

Did the name generator run out of names?
There's no name generator, just a bigass list of names. You haven't seen nothing yet! Literally. There's a chance that your girl gets named Nothing. :D
 
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Aug 18, 2020
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Thanks, for your reply. I cannot wait to have a more diverse array of minions to use, I havent really experimented with non dragonspawn offspring. Also, if I understand the Guard Post, it doubles the base attack value and has that as lair defence (modded by )? That seems awfully useless.

Another thing, sleep values. Tiny sleeps for 1 day per stamina gone, and Small sleeps or 2 to 1. I had a monstrous dragon that slept a full 120 days to restore 15 stamina, so 8 days to restore each individual stamina. Where can I find what does this? Also, looking around game/db I am finding a lot of features that are either unimplemented or that I have not yet discovered, like actual crafting of treasures, usable items, a dragon creation menu with 4 types, and things like that. Are these planned content, or removed content from the og game and mod that is no longer in your mod?
 

zzczys

Active Member
Jul 20, 2019
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I think for item crafting you need the paws that are used for menial tasks. Possibly also need a workshop.
 

Jman9

Engaged Member
Jul 17, 2019
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Also, if I understand the Guard Post, it doubles the base attack value and has that as lair defence (modded by )? That seems awfully useless.
It doubles defense and damage to Knights, allowing you to use less minions against intruders and escaping girls. And it shortens the minion list. Both seem pretty useful to me.

Another thing, sleep values. Tiny sleeps for 1 day per stamina gone, and Small sleeps or 2 to 1.
I'm changing this to 1, 1.5, 2, ..., 7.

I had a monstrous dragon that slept a full 120 days to restore 15 stamina, so 8 days to restore each individual stamina.
That's a core feature of the game, you pay for increased power with longer sleep cycles. It is also something that encourages playing small dragons over large ones.

This is also a major dragon theme, slumbering for extended periods of time. :D

Where can I find what does this?
In several places. Look for 'self.sleep_time' paired with 'self.size' in 'PlayableCharacter.rpy' and 'lair - label.rpy'.

I am finding a lot of features that are either unimplemented or that I have not yet discovered

Are these planned content, or removed content from the og game and mod that is no longer in your mod?
Mostly the latter. My own planned content tends to only have pictures created in advance.

actual crafting of treasures
Gated by building a Workshop, which requires you to complete the quest 'The Fearful One', leading to 'The Gift'.

usable items
Click on an item in your inventory. The working ones are milk for healing, Flying island manacrystals and female transformation potions.

a dragon creation menu with 4 types
That was probably Eliont's WIP at some point. I didn't do anything with it, because I like starting with the wimpiest dragon possible.
 
Aug 18, 2020
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Trying to use a transformation potion leads to a blank screen, much like the empty captive list in the currently released version of the game. Item creation I view as different than treasure creation, as one of those is only used as sellable objects. Milk is not produced in the current version of the game. I should probably tell you what happens if I use a mana crystal in the currently uploaded version of the game, but the dragon that has unlocked it in my saves has 53 pages of treasures, eggs, materials, gems, and potions. Not sorting through that. This would be made more user friendly if it was located in literally any page other than All, but in the currently released version, no luck. (Maybe rename potions to usable items, and put milk and crystals there?). Will revise the guide later today.
 
Jul 8, 2019
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I assume your dragon isn't particularly coldproof, i.e. doesn't have 4+ white heads? In that case, you're just going to freeze to death if you move in there. :p
Some sort of noticve that that's the case would be useful then. Like instead of the dragon just saying "No, my current lair is better" change his line to something like "It's way too cold for me here".
Also 4+ heads? That's a bunch and I'm not fond of playing with more than even one head.

{QUOTE]Um, are you saying that you have two Ice Castles under 'locations'? That would be a bug, and I'd be interested in the corresponding save.
[/QUOTE]
I've got one called "Jotun Castle" and the other one the "Uninhabited Ice Castle". They use the same background art so I figured they're two events for the same lair.
 

Jman9

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Jul 17, 2019
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Trying to use a transformation potion leads to a blank screen, much like the empty captive list in the currently released version of the game.
Bug from 1.1.1. Only injured girls can use items. :confused:

To fix it, replace lines 149-151 of 'lair - rooms.rpy' with this:
Code:
                            for unit in lair.cells:
                                if (unit.hp < unit.maxhp and type == 'heal') or (unit.gender == 'female' and type == 'change_origin'):
                                    use hero_card(hero=unit,value=['lair_item_use_unit_select',unit])
Item creation I view as different than treasure creation, as one of those is only used as sellable objects.
I don't really know if there's that much of a difference. Currently, there are only three kinds of items you can 'create': jewelry in the Workshops, milk in the Milking Farms and Dragon Eggs from pregnant girls. The last two aren't made directly, either. You can sell pretty much any of these, although the eggs are probably better off not being sold.

Milk is not produced in the current version of the game.
I just tested the released version and it absolutely is produced, see the attached screenshots. I don't really know what you're doing wrong here. :cautious: What might throw you is that (Edit: some) inventory screens aren't refreshed before switching filters, for some reason.

Maybe rename potions to usable items, and put milk and crystals there?
Good idea, done.

Will revise the guide later today.
Can't wait. :geek:

Some sort of noticve that that's the case would be useful then.
Also a good idea, done.

Also 4+ heads?
4+ specific heads, e.g. White heads for the ice castles and caves, etc.

That's a bunch and I'm not fond of playing with more than even one head.
Your choice. It's far better than vanilla, where you had to have 8+ heads for elemental immunity (or as close to it as possible, anyway).

I've got one called "Jotun Castle" and the other one the "Uninhabited Ice Castle". They use the same background art so I figured they're two events for the same lair.
The 'Jotun Castle' still has a Jotun in it, and the uninhabited one doesn't. :D
 
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zzczys

Active Member
Jul 20, 2019
911
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In the sacrifices script there seems to be output for sacrificing aphrodite and danu, but you only met them during the endgame.
 

Jman9

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Jul 17, 2019
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That's just a sanity check. There are others like it as well, in case I change something and forget.
 
Aug 18, 2020
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Here is a step by step and an updated origional guide. Both incomplete and only cover the first sleep cycle. If I maintain a semi manic state by next release, I'll try to update it for that. Past that, I'll semi regularly add to this guide, hopefully. Goodnight y'all.
 
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Jman9

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Here is a step by step and an updated origional guide.
Neat! Some comments that you're free to use, discard or dispute:
  • Settings: Don't use debug mode unless you have reason to. One reviewer of the original TfD got really confused by it. :p
  • Settings: Disable NSFW and 'old style map' at your peril. Playing without them isn't really supported.
  • The 'stab out eyes twice' thing is a remnant from DW. Just imagine that your dragon casts a healing spell before continuing the torture. :devilish: If I ever get to fully proofreading the rape text, I'll probably add blurbs to indicate that.
  • Digging is Bronze and Steel.
  • Capital raiding just underwent a serious overhaul. You can have some really epic battles in there, now.
  • Most lategame lairs can also be expanded, not just the hole in the ground. Darkwood, titan/giant castles, elf/dwarf ruins, etc.
  • Demanding tribute is actually good as you can boost fear so you can take on encounters that you might not want to fight. High enough fear can get you just as much if not more money from e.g. merchants than fighting them. Demanding tribute from villages is a lot more of a mixed bag, as it raises poverty.
  • I can make easy difficulty easier, if people want it. I'd need some ideas what to add, though. A bigger dragon, weaker enemies, something else?
  • Visiting places and doing things in the lair will get fractional stamina costs.
  • I have some plans about restoring the original content about the Witch trying to steal victory from you if you give her too much sperm. :sneaky:
  • Selling stuff is actually best done at the Jeweler in the Capital, who doesn't rip you off as much as the others (basically +50% profits). One of the 'useless' tips outright tells you that. :cool:
  • Smuggler guards are hireable once per week. Goblins regenerate at the rate of one per day, with a cap of 12 at a time.
  • Buying magic meat from lizardmen also gives satiety, making it a superiour one-time option. But the rituals regenerate at least twice as fast on a per stat basis.
  • Both will be much better when your stamina is high and combat power is low.
  • Cat-sized dragon vs dog is very closely against you. And a Bronze or Steel dragon will beat the dog pretty consistently.
  • I'm changing combat so that the dice rolls will actually be integers. Used to be a continuous distribution. Should make the 'dogfights' a little more interesting, too.
  • Satiety will get a cap that will really bite small dragons, 50*2^(size-1).
  • Heads are generally better than the special evolutions, but heads are also likely to be swapped at some point, wasting XP. Dark Ichor is only 10 XP more than Short Paws, but you'll probably want to replace those with Working or Running Paws in the long run.
  • I'm open to hearing proposals about evolution cost rebalancing. I just plonked down some values that felt rouhgly approximate.
  • If you can come up with some short useful hints, I can add those to the Lady's tips.
 
3.50 star(s) 8 Votes