Ren'Py Completed Toro 7 [Ep. 7] [Tora Productions]

[ClockworkGnome]

He certainly knew how to create an unsettling atmosphere in his writing and the mythos he created has had an enormous and lingering influence on literature, movies, and video games.

The funny thing is how many people think they're reading something inspired by Lovecraft's "mythos", when what they're actually reading is more the product of August Derleth's later interpretation of it. Derleth recontextualized pretty much everything (and is the root of almost any story where people can actually fight against the elder horrors).

Lovecraft's original vision is way more disturbing, because it almost always emphasizes just how insignificant and powerless humans are in a vast and infinite cosmos. The elder things don't hate us, because for the most part they don't even realize we exist at all. We're less than ants to them. We don't matter.

That's why knowledge is bad, and the deeper you delve the more likely you are to go mad. Because you realize just how chaotic and uncaring the universe actually is. Nothing makes sense, nothing matters. It's like combining the Total Perspective Vortex from Hitchhiker's Guide with Sagan's

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. Except whereas Sagan saw the Pale Blue Dot as inspiring and humbling, Lovecraft saw it as terrifying and disheartening.

(It's even funnier when you realize at least part of Lovecraft's perspective was because Einstein and Relativity Theory was breaking down what he saw as the surety of Newtonian physics - and if he'd lived to see the Nuclear Age his reaction probably would have been "See, I told you so". It would be kind of fascinating to see what he'd have thought of stuff like Quantum Theory.)

 

[PapaPhat]

Good job, Phat. I'm glad there's someone here willing to do the grunt work, and I'm especially happy it isn't me.

As a horror fan, I do read Lovecraft though he's not on my favorite author list. He certainly knew how to create an unsettling atmosphere in his writing and the mythos he created has had an enormous and lingering influence on literature, movies, and video games. If anyone would like a quick introduction to his work, I recommend checking out his short story "Pickman's Model." It's not his most representative or most ornate work, but it's the one that gives me the most chills personally. To be perfectly honest (and a bit sycophantic), though, I'd say Tlaero is a much better writer than Lovecraft in terms of creating layered, complex, and very human characters and not dismissing huge swathes of humanity merely because of their race and genetics.

Thanks but I'll have to respectfully decline on the Lovecraft suggestion... not even Cliff's Notes on Lovecraft... Not for me... I see H.P.'s influence in other works, films, games and other media but it's not for me... My fear? Why won't I read it? Because I know what is in there and fear that I may like it... a bit too much. Stephen King is more my taste... I get a bit lost on the fringes of the abyss with King's work but I always seem to make it back in one piece. Can't say that I favor my chances of making it back from a trip into Lovecraft's mind at all... It is powerfully dark. Wouldn't want to come back looking like this...

Spoiler: Phat's brain on H.P. Lovecraft...

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I do agree that Tlaero is a much better writer than Lovecraft... hands down, no contest.

Adventure ever on my friend, Phat

 

[Tulrek]

"The process of delving into the black abyss is to me the keenest form of fascination."
H.P. Lovecraft

And I apologize because he was cited !

Thanks to all of you.

 

[slightchance]

[rant]
"Hey, we need to tell you our sexuality because we shower together" No, that's just a terrible device to explain possible love interests. I almost wanted to quit the game after that. I mean how hard is it to serve a good measure of cabin fever? Of course they have sex, it's basically the Olympics of brains. How many PhD's do they got? What a cringy conversation. No one in science talks like that, at least not a scientist worth their salt.

Then we have a security officer who has no diving experience nor do they know how a underwater station works. Are you kidding me? They could have said that they had only basic (inadequate) training which is something even a corrupt system would provide. Even if they made a (deliberate) mistake in sending an inexperienced MC there, this is something the crew should have corrected right from the start. It's, you know, for their own safety.

"Hey, I'm trans. Do I freak you out?" Lady, I don't even know you, we just met. And your douchebag of a coworker is such a blatant attempt to add niceguy vibes to the story why would I even want to romance him? They could have made him an arse in other ways or portrayed him as grumpy sub until he melts like butter in FMC's forgiving hands.

It's the first game in years where I am not interested in any sex scenes. The only thing I want to know going forward is where the shrimp came from. I hope it's not a Shape of Water situation.
[/rant]

 

[Tlaero]

I loaded the game, clicked start, selected a new character and started the game... How long IS Ep0 anyway? (I've made all three LI's plays for the male thus far and only saw the video once...) I made it all the way through the investigation scene, didn't see a peek of the intro video and figured it would be quicker just to retrieve the quote from the game files... I was right! If the intro triggers after all of that then it is late for its own party!!!

Yeah, it's about 10 seconds after that...

Tlaero

 

[Tlaero]

To be perfectly honest (and a bit sycophantic), though, I'd say Tlaero is a much better writer than Lovecraft in terms of creating layered, complex, and very human characters and not dismissing huge swathes of humanity merely because of their race and genetics.

Thank you. If I'm anything, though, it's because I stand on the shoulders of giants.

Tlaero

 

[Tlaero]

[rant]
"Hey, we need to tell you our sexuality because we shower together" No, that's just a terrible device to explain possible love interests. I almost wanted to quit the game after that. I mean how hard is it to serve a good measure of cabin fever? Of course they have sex, it's basically the Olympics of brains. How many PhD's do they got? What a cringy conversation. No one in science talks like that, at least not a scientist worth their salt.

Then we have a security officer who has no diving experience nor do they know how a underwater station works. Are you kidding me? They could have said that they had only basic (inadequate) training which is something even a corrupt system would provide. Even if they made a (deliberate) mistake in sending an inexperienced MC there, this is something the crew should have corrected right from the start. It's, you know, for their own safety.

"Hey, I'm trans. Do I freak you out?" Lady, I don't even know you, we just met. And your douchebag of a coworker is such a blatant attempt to add niceguy vibes to the story why would I even want to romance him? They could have made him an arse in other ways or portrayed him as grumpy sub until he melts like butter in FMC's forgiving hands.

It's the first game in years where I am not interested in any sex scenes. The only thing I want to know going forward is where the shrimp came from. I hope it's not a Shape of Water situation.
[/rant]

Sorry that this one isn't to your taste. There are lots of different writing styles on F95. I hope you find something that you do enjoy.

Tlaero

 

[JohnF95zone]

Sorry that this one isn't to your taste. There are lots of different writing styles on F95. I hope you find something that you do enjoy.

Tlaero

I was this close to rant about that ranting post (which I no longer see ) but then decided NOT to because it (my rant) will get deleted by moderator later and I don't want to add more work to the already overworked underpaid moderator, and just let the Master reply herself. Cheers.

 

[EndlessNights]

Thank you. If I'm anything, though, it's because I stand on the shoulders of giants.

Tlaero

That's very humble, but to me you are one of the giants of VNs yourself. Thank you for all the great games, stories, and characters you've given us over the years.

Since we've just been discussing writers (well, one in particular), I'm curious to know what some of your favorite authors are if you don't mind sharing. I've already got a Swedish metal band to check out thanks to you so this seems as good a time as any to take a deep dive into the mind of Tlaero.

Also, was Toro 7 inspired by anything in particular? It has as far as I know a totally unique setting for a visual novel and even the murder mystery aspect is quite a rare thing to see in an AVN. It really stands out and stands alone in a number of ways. I see people in this thread comparing it to The Shape of Water, and there have been scenes in the game that have reminded me of works as diverse as Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea and Snowpiercer. There are some similarities gameplay-wise with Heavy Five which is another VN I'm fond of, but the stories are very different.

 

[EndlessNights]

"Hey, we need to tell you our sexuality because we shower together" No, that's just a terrible device to explain possible love interests. I almost wanted to quit the game after that. I mean how hard is it to serve a good measure of cabin fever? Of course they have sex, it's basically the Olympics of brains. How many PhD's do they got? What a cringy conversation. No one in science talks like that, at least not a scientist worth their salt.

I will concede the way the crew introduced themselves to the MC was a little awkward, but the thing is Toro 7 is different from a lot of other VNs because most characters aren't romanceable in any given playthrough. It would perhaps be more realistic to slowly discover the characters' orientations as you get to know them better, but you have only limited opportunities for interactions in the first episodes so spending a lot of time with a non-LI would limit your chance to get to know the actual LIs available to your MC (I actually still always try to find a way to squeeze in some time with my "just friends" on the station). There would be pages and pages of people complaining in this thread because the character they liked the best and were most invested in turned out not to be into their MC.

In addition to providing important information the player needs to know, I think those introductions also tell us important things about the culture on board the ship. It's an environment where privacy is in short supply and everyone is in on each other's business even if they aren't really all friends. A certain openness about sexual matters is the norm though that doesn't necessarily imply promiscuity or Woodstock reenactments every Saturday night.

"Hey, I'm trans. Do I freak you out?" Lady, I don't even know you, we just met. And your douchebag of a coworker is such a blatant attempt to add niceguy vibes to the story why would I even want to romance him? They could have made him an arse in other ways or portrayed him as grumpy sub until he melts like butter in FMC's forgiving hands.

Aisha is certainly direct in that scene, but I think it makes sense. If your character can't accept who she is as a person, there's not much basis for any type of future friendship or relationship there. Considering she already has to spend a lot of time with someone who rejects her identity, I think it's understandable she'd want to know where she stands with the MC as soon as possible.

 

[Faptime]

To be fair I was expecting Aisha to be fully transitioned.

EDIT never mind. Apparently I can't read...

I'm playing the Male MC and when we meet Aisha in the shower, she certainly appears to be fully transitioned.

Spoiler: Aisha

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If she's not fully transitioned on the FMC routes, that's an interesting choice by the writers. If she is not romancible as the MMC, why make the change? It doesn't make a difference either way (because she's not interested in being MCs LI), so this is just curiousity.

 

[Tlaero]

Since we've just been discussing writers (well, one in particular), I'm curious to know what some of your favorite authors are if you don't mind sharing. I've already got a Swedish metal band to check out thanks to you so this seems as good a time as any to take a deep dive into the mind of Tlaero.

Also, was Toro 7 inspired by anything in particular? It has as far as I know a totally unique setting for a visual novel and even the murder mystery aspect is quite a rare thing to see in an AVN. It really stands out and stands alone in a number of ways. I see people in this thread comparing it to The Shape of Water, and there have been scenes in the game that have reminded me of works as diverse as Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea and Snowpiercer. There are some similarities gameplay-wise with Heavy Five which is another VN I'm fond of, but the stories are very different.

In my formative years, I read a whole lot of golden age science fiction, especially Asimov and Heinlein. In many ways, those stories don't hold up, but the authors are unquestionably giants whose shoulders I make muddy by standing on. I also read a lot of writers like Alan Dean Foster, Robert Lynn Asprin, and Terry Brooks who wrote both science fiction and fantasy. They contributed to my belief that those are really the same genre (or, at least two sides of the same coin). I don't read a lot anymore, but I've read the recent big name stuff.

These days, I often get my story fix from Xbox games. Books are wonderful, and will never be completely replaced, but interactive fiction has an immersion factor that's hard to deny. I feel that the Xbox game Quantum Break is the best time travel story anywhere including books and movies. And Mass Effect is incredible on so many levels.

In music, yeah, I'm a metalhead, Amon Amarth, Slayer, Megadeth, Metallica, but in my softer moments, I really like the rock band Halestorm, and took inspiration from some of their songs in some of my games.

The overt inspirations for Toro 7 were different for Mortze and I. Mortze's inspirations were The Abyss and Alien. Mine was mostly Mass Effect. Many of the characters are named after characters from those three places.

I say "overt" inspirations because I often don't realize where my ideas come from. I've actually totally ripped myself off without realizing it. There's a scene in Redemption for Jessika that is almost identical to a scene in Getting to Know Christine, but I completely didn't realize it until years later when I read GtKC to prepare for writing the sequel. If I unknowingly ripped myself off, I'm sure I've unknowingly ripped other people off as well. (Heinlein used to call it "Filing off the serial numbers.")

I can say with certainty that I didn't get inspiration from The Shape of Water, Snowpiercer, or Heavy Five, though, because I haven't watched/read/played any of them.

Tlaero

 

[alexglig]

Hmm where Toro 1,2,3,4,5,6 ?

 

[Tlaero]

I'm playing the Male MC and when we meet Aisha in the shower, she certainly appears to be fully transitioned.

Avaron was saying that she knew Aisha was fully transitioned, so wasn't surprised by it.

Tlaero

 

[Avaron1974]

EDIT never mind. Apparently I can't read...

I'm playing the Male MC and when we meet Aisha in the shower, she certainly appears to be fully transitioned.

Spoiler: Aisha

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

If she's not fully transitioned on the FMC routes, that's an interesting choice by the writers. If she is not romancible as the MMC, why make the change? It doesn't make a difference either way (because she's not interested in being MCs LI), so this is just curiousity.

She's fully transitioned regardless of route.

I have her route on my lesbian playthrough.

EDIT never mind. Apparently I can't read...

I'm playing the Male MC and when we meet Aisha in the shower, she certainly appears to be fully transitioned.

Reason I say I wasn't surprised is having followed Tlaero's work for as long as I have I know she puts more thought into her characters than a fetish they can represent.

I have a feeling Aisha was created with either someone in mind or a group of people and with her being on the lesbian route, the only route in the game having a penis would make no sense, I just assumed she had gone all the with the transition.

I thought her being trans would be more about the story than the kink.

 

[Faptime]

She's fully transitioned regardless of route.

I have her route on my lesbian playthrough.



Reason I say I wasn't surprised is having followed Tlaero's work for as long as I have I know she puts more thought into her characters than a fetish they can represent.

I have a feeling Aisha was created with either someone in mind or a group of people and with her being on the lesbian route, the only route in the game having a penis would make no sense, I just assumed she had gone all the with the transition.

I thought her being trans would be more about the story than the kink.

That makes total sense. Would have liked Aisha to be romancible on the MMC route (because her body is total fire, hottest on the station imo), but I'm really pleased with the different characters presented in this VN.

 

[EndlessNights]

In my formative years, I read a whole lot of golden age science fiction, especially Asimov and Heinlein. In many ways, those stories don't hold up, but the authors are unquestionably giants whose shoulders I make muddy by standing on. I also read a lot of writers like Alan Dean Foster, Robert Lynn Asprin, and Terry Brooks who wrote both science fiction and fantasy. They contributed to my belief that those are really the same genre (or, at least two sides of the same coin). I don't read a lot anymore, but I've read the recent big name stuff.

I've never read Foster, Asprin, or Brooks so thank you for bringing them to my attention! I was also a sci-fi kid, and science fiction is still one of my favorite genres in books, movies, and games (like you, I love Mass Effect). I guess that's not too surprising since this is the Toro 7 thread. I can totally relate to what you said about the stories not always holding up -- I often wish I could read the books I loved growing up with the same eyes I had back then. I can mostly still enjoy them on some level as they rarely drop from brilliant all the way to bad in my estimation, but many books I used to think were great are just good to me now.

Philip K. Dick is the science fiction author I read the most nowadays. He's not perfect (for one thing, his female characters are often underdeveloped), but I never seem to get tired of his work. He's one of the few authors whom I can read five or six novels by back to back and still find myself wanting to read more rather than switch to something else.

In music, yeah, I'm a metalhead, Amon Amarth, Slayer, Megadeth, Metallica, but in my softer moments, I really like the rock band Halestorm, and took inspiration from some of their songs in some of my games.

Slayer used to be my favorite metal band, but I have to admit sometimes I put on Reign in Blood these days and nearly instantly get a headache. I hate that about myself. It must have something to do with getting older...I'll be turning 40 in another month so I feel like I still ought to have some good listening years left in me, but maybe not. Iron Maiden tends to be a lot easier on my 2022 ears, and I enjoy the history and myths they explore in a lot of their songs. I've never actually been able to tell what Tom Araya was singing about without reading the lyrics so I always found it interesting that some Slayer songs were controversial. How did people even know "Angel of Death" wasn't about Azrael or Michael?! I'm definitely going to check out Amon Amarth, and I don't think I've ever heard anything by Halestorm either so I'll give them a listen as well.

In conclusion, I'd just like to say Toro 7 is amazing, everyone reading this should stop and play it now if they haven't already, and we're completely and 100% on-topic here.

 

[cxx]

Hmm where Toro 1,2,3,4,5,6 ?

nowhere.

 

[PapaPhat]

Hmm where Toro 1,2,3,4,5,6 ?

TBH, my friend, Toro 7 is simply the name of the undersea space station this crew inhabits. There likely were or possibly still are other Toro projects that led to Toro 7 but those stories are left untold here or it could be more like the number on a race car... just nomenclature for identification purposes, like the tail number on an aircraft or, in this case, the name of a space ship. Hope this helps you, friend. Adventure ever on, Phat

 

[Turska]

I'll give a metal recommendation from my home country Finland for us older fans of heavier music. It's more melodic and let's say epic than average metal (many times taking inspiration from movie soundtracks) and you can hear the lyrics usually. They do have their harder songs too if that's your style. I'm talking about the symphonic metal band Nightwish. I'd especially recommend watching their live performances with their latest singer Floor Jansen from youtube. One of my absolute favorites since I was a teen.