Crimsonfiend76

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You mean that treacherous bitch who was front and center in hiding his kid away from him and him from his kid while maintaining the lie told to the kid that her father no longer cared for her for 7 years and never had any intention to reunite them after the initial plan was abandoned? That "soulmate"?
The one who still hasn't actually given any explanation as to why she kept the lies and deceit up after the MC was no longer locked up?
She had years to come clean about her involvement yet refused to do so, it took the MC finding pictures that could only have come from his blood family that he found out.

Someone that does that, isn't your "soulmate", they don't actually care about you they care about themselves and what they get out of the situation.
Deb was fine with the whole thing since it meant she had the MC to herself that whole time.



She hasn't shown any remorse at what she did, only that she got found out.
Someone who is remorseful would be doing things like offering explanations so the people they have wronged could maybe try to understand why they did what they did, Deb doesn't do that though, she offers no real apology or explanation.
She isn't sad because of the pain she caused 2 people, she is sad because she no longer gets the MC to herself.

She is a horrible, selfish, person that, as we saw in the last update, will go along with anything she thinks will benefit her no matter what it does to someone else.
There was no reason to go along with that prank except she could see what she might get out of it.
I respectfully disagree, I get what you're saying, but several times in this update she has demonstrated her remorse (at the hospital, at the restaurant, and the following day by the stairs) to the MC but knows he's still too angry with her to accept it. She even goes on with Kelly, to explain just what she did to the 'man' she loves more than anything in the world. She didn't have to say anything to her, she said that to prove her state of mind, that she admits, she fucked up by going along with a plan to betray the one person she loves more than anything in this world. She admitted her selfishness, her ego and pride, and maybe even lust with Mam and Marie to allow them to sway her when she herself knew better.

She allowed her family to sway what she knew deep down was a bad idea and seeing the damage done to the MC and Millie deeply regrets it. She even went on to assume she mistakenly had her brother wrapped around her finger and that they would always be together, that he would forgive her anything, especially that she did 'IT' for him, to save him, and that reason and logic would prevail, and they would end up all together in one big happy family at the end....only NONE of that happened quite like she expected or was assured by her mam and Marie. At that point she felt stuck, too far down the road and instead of confessing, she fucked up again and doubled down on the WRONG decision. Like the saying goes, "the road to hell is paved with good intentions...". What she did not expect was for him essentially willing to give in to his anger instead of his reason (since when did he ever listen to reason?) and ghosting her and the rest of the family treating her as if she was dead to him. That pain was far too much for her, even at the expense of guaranteed lesbian sex, she's a wreck right now.

Seriously, ever since the MC found out her role in the deception, she's been nothing but remorseful and heartbroken, knowing she fucked up with no discernable way to make it right and apologize. I like Millie's attitude that she's equally angry (as is Julia once she found out the truth and is on their side) but as angry and hurt at the betrayal, she's willing to think clearly and logically and the pain of losing her family is not worth staying angry and cutting the remaining family she has off. She even mentioned that if her mom, Maria appeared in front of her, she would embrace her and love her, but would still be very angry and disgusted with their flawed plan. It may have been a plan borne out of concern and love for the MC but anyone who knew him and his personality like they should have, should have realized it was a bad plan and doomed to fail spectacularly. The ONLY way it conceivable could have gone worse is if the MC in utter depression and despair drank himself to death as a final fuck you to everyone! Short of that....well, yeah everything that could go wrong, did to wrong....I mean side tangent here, what in the actual fuck was Marie thinking marrying another man, even if it was out of willingness to help him be his beard, yet still hold out hope to reunite with the MC after the lies she told Millie about her dad!?!

Anyway, I digress, but those that hate Deb, will continue to hate her, they even hated her before they knew her role in the deception, but rather were either just not attracted to her (fair assessment, to each their own) or felt there was potentially too much lez-NTR coming from her, so they will never want to have anything to do with her. Again , that's a fair assessment I may not agree with, but as long as the Dev makes it optional to forgive Deb and have a relationship with Millie, I couldn't be happier.
 

Crimsonfiend76

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I see a lot of people hating Deb for her role in lying to the MC. Have people forgotten why Deb and the MCs family lied to the MC all this time? The MC was in danger of seriously fucking up his life by becoming a whistle blower and risking spending the rest of his life in prison. The plan of Marie and Milly disappearing was to distract the MC from revealing military secrets. Deb was the only one who opposed the idea but since she was outvoted she went along with it, on the condition that Marie also cut ties with her. Had Deb revealed the truth, she risked him returning to the whole "reveal military secrets" state of mind and everything his family had done for him, which includes his father blackmailing the Prime Minister and quitting a job he loved, and Marie and Milly going missing would have been for nothing. Deb also became a bit of a bitch because she felt guilty about keeping the secret and she wanted to be punished for her part in everything.

The MC now knows that she didn't purposefully keep Marie and Milly's location a secret which, while he is still angry, he is getting over it and giving her a second chance. Milly pranking him with Deb's condition, which as I've said before is completely believable with them being Scottish (I'm Scottish too so this is an informed opinion), helped kickstart this second chance by getting him in touch with his real feelings for Deb. Even that wasn't Deb's idea. Was it extreme? Yes. Was it necessary for him to reconnect with Deb? Yes.
100% agree. She's remorseful and knows she fucked up, but EVERYTHING she did was for him and out of love. Even going so far as to have half-hearted sex with Julia, not to mention try and help him repair his relationship with Millie (avoid giving in to temptation and having sex with her) and turned down a sure thing with Kelly all because she cares about what he thinks and wants to be loyal to him.
 

Spfjolietjake

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Sep 26, 2019
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So glad there are players that "get" Deb instead of just blatant hate from lack of understanding.

I know we all bring a bit of ourselves in every vn we play (or atleast a good number of us do). Seeing players that support and care for Deb gives me hope irl as crazy as that sounds. :)
 

Norman Knight

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Jul 6, 2018
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I mean, i get the situation.

I don't like deb, I didn't like her before, and I still don't like her, her role in all of this mess was potentially the worst, good intentions don't give her a free pass for everything, I could understand and maybe accept what she did, but if given the chance I will end any sexual relationship with her, that trust is broken, I don't think it would be healthy for the MC to stick with a relationship that is not healthy anymore, but the way some you are telling the story, makes it seem like you think she deserves a price and a medal for having the decency to feel bad for what she did.

So far, she never actually apologized to the MC or give him an honest explanation for her actions, her remorse is more for the player to see, than for the MC to feel, she is not a victim, she was one of the perpetrators, and until we see her give the MC some honest answers, well....... don't expect people to just love her.
 

eddie987

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Dec 5, 2018
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100% agree. She's remorseful and knows she fucked up, but EVERYTHING she did was for him and out of love. Even going so far as to have half-hearted sex with Julia, not to mention try and help him repair his relationship with Millie (avoid giving in to temptation and having sex with her) and turned down a sure thing with Kelly all because she cares about what he thinks and wants to be loyal to him.
Half-hearted sex while using her whole arsenal of sex toys and filling all her holes... Sure, whatever you say. Also she said herself the only reason she didn't bang the cop was because it seemed like she was looking for a relationship and if it was just sex she'd be all over her.

There were supposed to be no lies between them (she actually even had the audacity to say she never lied to him at some point...) and so far we found out she knew were his daughter and ex wife were all this time and that she was banging his wife and their mother behind his back... (Their aunt too probably? Who knows? She's apparently God's gift to all women and none of them can resist her charms...) I don't think we have the same understanding of loyalty.
As for her remorse, I'm not sure where you saw that exactly. Her answer to why she did it was that she doesn't know... Acting all "depressed" like an early 2000s emo teen in a couple of scenes and "breaking up" with Jules doesn't count as remorse. She still never tried to explain herself, most likely because there's nothing to explain.

You also said something about people feeling there was potentially too much lez-NTR coming from her in another comment... What do you mean "potentially"? She's been banging the MC's wife behind his back, he asks her to stop messing with Milly and the same night she sends him a photo of her lying in bed naked next to her, he's been flirting with Jules since day one, she bangs her (as I said she didn't just flick her bean a couple of times, she made sure to use multiple toys and all her holes. Half-hartredly of course...) and makes sure he can see it and I almost forgot how she didn't let Jules get dressed when Milly knocked her door some time after that, so that she'll see them naked in bed together!
Are all those things something a person who loves the MC would do to him or the NTR antagonist? But of course porn taught us "girl on girl=hot" and since it's Deb and not Dave pulling all that crap, it's all cool and she's definitely madly in love with the MC...
 

TundraLupus

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Apr 8, 2020
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Oh, the Deb hate train came back, it took a while this time, I have to agree with Norman Knight that Deb's regret has been overly shown to the player but not the Mc, I'll have to disagree with someone else about the prank at the hospital that actually made me as a player give some distance to both Milly and Deb(I like Deb by the way) because that was just fucked up given the circumstances, Funny from the outside for sure, but if put in the role of the Mc then it was just fucked up.

Other than that I don't see many more problems, I for sure ain't giving anyone a second chance before they actually apologize have a conversation and repent through actions, which since most of the characters involved are boomers I don't see happening, so I get why people are annoyed but here is the thing, if you put yourself in the Mc's role you'll get why he is "okay" with having Deb around, actually if you put yourself in any of the character's roles their action are justifiable, the main problem is that most are putting themselves only on the Mc's role or not even on his role but just seeing everything as someone on the outside, how the later enjoy games I really don't know, we are given the other perspectives (I don't like that by the way) so try and turn the empathy on and put yourself on their places, do I agree with them? Noooo, do I understand where they were coming from and am willing to see what happens? Yes
 
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Crimsonfiend76

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So glad there are players that "get" Deb instead of just blatant hate from lack of understanding.

I know we all bring a bit of ourselves in every vn we play (or atleast a good number of us do). Seeing players that support and care for Deb gives me hope irl as crazy as that sounds. :)
I may not have been crazy about how over-sexed she was in the beginning, seemingly a little too eager to hop in bed with every potential L.I., but hearing her backstory, especially from when she was a teen and confessed to her mother her feelings for her brother, the whole thing is just some tragic love story complete with misunderstandings by the both of them. There isn't a part of me that doesn't see the pain in her knowing deep down she can never be with or marry the man she loves. So she self-medicates with one lesbian one night stand after another since she will never allow herself to be with another man, nor is she willing to be in ANY serious relationship with another woman. One of her earlier and no less significant mistakes was giving her sex toys male names, in an attempt to make her brother jealous, only for it to backfire.

I mean, i get the situation.

I don't like deb, I didn't like her before, and I still don't like her, her role in all of this mess was potentially the worst, good intentions don't give her a free pass for everything, I could understand and maybe accept what she did, but if given the chance I will end any sexual relationship with her, that trust is broken, I don't think it would be healthy for the MC to stick with a relationship that is not healthy anymore, but the way some you are telling the story, makes it seem like you think she deserves a price and a medal for having the decency to feel bad for what she did.

So far, she never actually apologized to the MC or give him an honest explanation for her actions, her remorse is more for the player to see, than for the MC to feel, she is not a victim, she was one of the perpetrators, and until we see her give the MC some honest answers, well....... don't expect people to just love her.
Look, she's not perfect, and yes, the dev had her give us, the player a peek into her state of mind on the off chance some of us on the fence about whether to love and forgive or hate her can at least make an informed decision on her motives and reasons for what she's thinking at this point in the story, that she's hurt, miserable, heartsick and would take it all back if she could.

She attempted to try and give full disclosure to the MC at the hospital, admitting to her own relationship with their mother (yes too little too late) in an attempt to be completely honest and transparent with him. She also knows him well enough that a simple apology probably wouldn't work. He already told her he more or less forgave her for sacrificing herself to save Millie in the bathroom, so from here on out, actions will speak louder than words and hopefully time will heal their wounds. He knows that almost losing her would have broken him and that he still loves her. Her offer to have sex with him in front of Millie, while surprising to him and his subsequent reaction was one where he wasn't repulsed or completely against the idea, imho it demonstrates she still wants to earn her way back into his good graces and hopefully into his bed.
 
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Crimsonfiend76

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Half-hearted sex while using her whole arsenal of sex toys and filling all her holes... Sure, whatever you say. Also she said herself the only reason she didn't bang the cop was because it seemed like she was looking for a relationship and if it was just sex she'd be all over her.

There were supposed to be no lies between them (she actually even had the audacity to say she never lied to him at some point...) and so far we found out she knew were his daughter and ex wife were all this time and that she was banging his wife and their mother behind his back... (Their aunt too probably? Who knows? She's apparently God's gift to all women and none of them can resist her charms...) I don't think we have the same understanding of loyalty.
As for her remorse, I'm not sure where you saw that exactly. Her answer to why she did it was that she doesn't know... Acting all "depressed" like an early 2000s emo teen in a couple of scenes and "breaking up" with Jules doesn't count as remorse. She still never tried to explain herself, most likely because there's nothing to explain.

You also said something about people feeling there was potentially too much lez-NTR coming from her in another comment... What do you mean "potentially"? She's been banging the MC's wife behind his back, he asks her to stop messing with Milly and the same night she sends him a photo of her lying in bed naked next to her, he's been flirting with Jules since day one, she bangs her (as I said she didn't just flick her bean a couple of times, she made sure to use multiple toys and all her holes. Half-hartredly of course...) and makes sure he can see it and I almost forgot how she didn't let Jules get dressed when Milly knocked her door some time after that, so that she'll see them naked in bed together!
Are all those things something a person who loves the MC would do to him or the NTR antagonist? But of course porn taught us "girl on girl=hot" and since it's Deb and not Dave pulling all that crap, it's all cool and she's definitely madly in love with the MC...
Remember she only showed him the footage with Julia thinking it would excite him enough to join them for a 3some. Sure was she horny and looking to have fun with her, yes of course but she knew Julia prefers guys and only agreed to go along with her seduction because she likewise was horny and was promised/assured Deb could arrange for Julia to get some of the MC's dick in her. Immediately after their sexy-time, they both felt remorse and regret, especially since once again, Deb's plan to manipulate her brother backfired spectacularly. You also forget that if Deb was all about just sexing up everyone, she could have had Millie at any time. In fact she denied her over and over again out of loyalty to the MC.

As for the cop, Deb has always maintained being open about one-night stands with women, something she has permitted/accepted the MC to pursue as well. When I mentioned loyalty, she doesn't LOVE them, she fucks 'em and leaves 'em, no different than the MC. Just because she swears she'll only give her heart to one person doesn't mean she had to stay celibate for the rest of her life, in between waiting for whenever her brother decides he's in the mood to fuck her.

Next up we have Marie.... which if you remember it was their mother that decided to share that little nugget of Deb and the MC's incestuous relationship with her. Again, another bang up shitty decision on how it was handled breaking the news to her potential new daughter in law. That said, Marie was the one who was bi-curious and pursued/seduced Deb. Deb tried to stop her over and over, but temptation won out. Remember, those 2 were best friends even before the MC came into the picture and she (Marie) wanted her own secret relationship experience with her best friend.... and maybe at one time may have considered this as a stepping stone to understanding their taboo relationship with the intention of making/expanding the relationship into an actual MC/Marie/Deb throuple. In that way, at least there would be no more secrets or jealousy, unfortunately for all parties, that path never happened, maybe cause Marie got pregnant sooner than expected and killed that option?

Lastly, as far the potential Lez-NTR, I used potential because not everyone will agree that it was NTR. I'm not denying Deb wanting to bang every girl she typically comes into contact with, I just don't see it as NTR because there was never any intent to steal any L.I. from the MC and it was always just about the sex only.
 
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TundraLupus

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So I was bored and this just popped off on my mind: is the reason why Julia(?) doesn't get with the other dude because he wanted a mono relationship? because at this point I don't see the Mc being against "sharing" so why doesn't instead of just waiting on someone with obviously multiple relationships and not get more than one yourself?
 

khamael

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Oct 9, 2018
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anyone have a save from around, where MC is told to check milly cam the day before their trip? my game save seems to be bugged and wont proceed to cam 1 click it a second time and crashes to main menu screen. tried moving save to a fresh unmodified game and same happens
 

eddie987

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Dec 5, 2018
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Remember she only showed him the footage with Julia thinking it would excite him enough to join them for a 3some. Sure was she horny and looking to have fun with her, yes of course but she knew Julia prefers guys and only agreed to go along with her seduction because she likewise was horny and was promised/assured Deb could arrange for Julia to get some of the MC's dick in her. Immediately after their sexy-time, they both felt remorse and regret, especially since once again, Deb's plan to manipulate her brother backfired spectacularly. You also forget that if Deb was all about just sexing up everyone, she could have had Millie at any time. In fact she denied her over and over again out of loyalty to the MC.
No, they didn't regret shit. Deb broke it off after a while, but Jules wanted to keep fucking. There was a whole conversation about it if you checked the camera in her room at night (I don't remember exactly when, it's been a while). As for Milly, even Deb is not that stupid to think she could get away with actually banging her against the MC's wishes. She was still groping her at every chance, taunt the MC the way I wrote before (agreeing to stop messing with her and then sending that picture the very same night was a big fuck you, in my book, and he took it like a good cuck champ...) and she eventually "denied" her with a kiss in the dressing room, because that's something you do when you want to keep someone away... Kiss them! She's been pretty much grooming her (the other scene with her and Jules naked in bed I mentioned is a good example for that) waiting for the MC to make a move (so she can sneak in) or give her the green light.

As for the cop, Deb has always maintained being open about one-night stands with women, something she has permitted/accepted the MC to pursue as well. When I mentioned loyalty, she doesn't LOVE them, she fucks 'em and leaves 'em, no different than the MC. Just because she swears she'll only give her heart to one person doesn't mean she had to stay celibate for the rest of her life, in between waiting for whenever her brother decides he's in the mood to fuck her.
When you say you want to spend your life with someone, you usually show it with actions. If I want a woman to take me seriously, I won't try to fuck everything that moves around her. Her actions doesn't show that she wants to be with him, but that she wants him to be the "living dildo" of her harem, or the "first wife" if you want to believe she actually has feelings for him (and by feelings I don't mean the possession/obsession she's been showing). Besides that, she's sooo depressed and wants to find a way to make up with him, she was ready to go bang the random cop, because... that's how she'll win him back? Oh, yeah. She didn't want to go to that date, that's why Deb who said multiple times how much she hates dresses and supposedly wore them only because the MC likes them, got all "dolled up" for her date.

Next up we have Marie.... which if you remember it was their mother that decided to share that little nugget of Deb and the MC's incestuous relationship with her. Again, another bang up shitty decision on how it was handled breaking the news to her potential new daughter in law. That said, Marie was the one who was bi-curious and pursued/seduced Deb. Deb tried to stop her over and over, but temptation won out. Remember, those 2 were best friends even before the MC came into the picture and she (Marie) wanted her own secret relationship experience with her best friend.... and maybe at one time may have considered this as a stepping stone to understanding their taboo relationship with the intention of making/expanding the relationship into an actual MC/Marie/Deb throuple. In that way, at least there would be no more secrets or jealousy, unfortunately for all parties, that path never happened, maybe cause Marie got pregnant sooner than expected and killed that option?
Oh my God, you're right! Deb is an angel! She has a kind soul, but she's so misundestood! Are we serious right now? If Marie hadn't die (?) the MC would have never found out the multiple ways Deb betrayed him! If she actually loved him she could tell him something like, I don't know "Hey dude, your wife wants to fuck me, what should I do?", or anything in that context. Or if it was sooo hard for her to resist the temptation, she could have said something afterwards. At some point in all those years that followed... You know the whole "no secrets between us" thing she seems to never remember... But she didn't say shit, because once again, the only person Deb loves, is Deb. The same reason she never said anything about her relationship with their mother, before there was a chance he'd get it on with her.

Lastly, as far the potential Lez-NTR, I used potential because not everyone will agree that it was NTR. I'm not denying Deb wanting to bang every girl she typically comes into contact with, I just don't see it as NTR because there was never any intent to steal any L.I. from the MC and it was always just about the sex only.
That's subjective. In my playthrough that's exactly what she did with Jules. She was the one I was mostly interested in, I made sure to flirt with her at every chance, but in the end she chose Deb, because she did what she knows best acted like a bull (remember the random fingering in hall?) and lied to her. Deb initially wanted a threesome, but she wanted that for herself (do you see a pattern here?). She didn't take the time to actually ask the other two people how they feel about it, all that mattered was what she wanted. She lied (Deb lied? Shocking, I know!) to Jules that the MC was on board and tried to use the fact that he showed interest in her to get him to join them and when that didn't work, instead of backing out she decided it was ok to fuck him over, because that's what she does best.
 

Crimsonfiend76

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So I was bored and this just popped off on my mind: is the reason why Julia(?) doesn't get with the other dude because he wanted a mono relationship? because at this point I don't see the Mc being against "sharing" so why doesn't instead of just waiting on someone with obviously multiple relationships and not get more than one yourself?
It's a good question, IIRC, Julia basically put it out there she prefers the MC, but if he isn't interested in pursuing her, then she will give the other guy a date/guaranteed hook-up. I don't recall why the sharing option was never addressed, the way it was presented was all or nothing, with her giving the first right of refusal depending on his interest. If I had to speculate, Julia is the one not interested in sharing, she's possibly a 1-cock kinda gal only and figured if the MC was into her, she'd give him one last ultimatum. Given that I don't share with other guys, it worked out for me and just kept her for myself. ;)

No, they didn't regret shit. Deb broke it off after a while, but Jules wanted to keep fucking. There was a whole conversation about it if you checked the camera in her room at night (I don't remember exactly when, it's been a while). As for Milly, even Deb is not that stupid to think she could get away with actually banging her against the MC's wishes. She was still groping her at every chance, taunt the MC the way I wrote before (agreeing to stop messing with her and then sending that picture the very same night was a big fuck you, in my book, and he took it like a good cuck champ...) and she eventually "denied" her with a kiss in the dressing room, because that's something you do when you want to keep someone away... Kiss them! She's been pretty much grooming her (the other scene with her and Jules naked in bed I mentioned is a good example for that) waiting for the MC to make a move (so she can sneak in) or give her the green light.
Again, if Deb didn't care about the MC she wouldn't be the one being comforted by Julia after their sex, which is the scene that happens looking at the camera feed. As for Millie, sure she was flirting with her niece, no different that how Millie was actively pursuing her until the MC told her to back off. At which point despite her desire and lust kicking in, she kept telling Millie, no, it was not going happen. She can't control Millie basically stalking her, rubbing up on her trying every thing she can to have sex with her, especially since she knows her aunt likes girls too. As far grooming her goes, yes, to an extent I agree she was grooming her. But if anything she was grooming her with the intention of allowing her father to be the first one to be with her, then, maybe she could have her fun as well considering by then the family secret would be out in the open. But everything she did with Millie was done with the intent to get the MC back into his daughter's good graces who at that time still hated his guts and did not know everything .
When you say you want to spend your life with someone, you usually show it with actions. If I want a woman to take me seriously, I won't try to fuck everything that moves around her. Her actions doesn't show that she wants to be with him, but that she wants him to be the "living dildo" of her harem, or the "first wife" if you want to believe she actually has feelings for him (and by feelings I don't mean the possession/obsession she's been showing). Besides that, she's sooo depressed and wants to find a way to make up with him, she was ready to go bang the random cop, because... that's how she'll win him back? Oh, yeah. She didn't want to go to that date, that's why Deb who said multiple times how much she hates dresses and supposedly wore them only because the MC likes them, got all "dolled up" for her date.
Look that's your definition of a committed relationship. It's clear that they have enjoyed an open relationship at least going back to when Marie left him. Besides that, several people are in open/polyamorous marriages /relationships, it doesn't mean they love their partners any less, especially if they happen to have high sex drives and for them its just about the sex only. Let's not forget, Deb is frustrated in so much as despite having sex with her brother, a little thing called incest prevented her dream of marrying her brother and having his babies is more or less ruining her life. At this point, the only way she can cope is settling for being the 'other' woman back when he was still married to Marie, while still having her own lesbian flings to distract her from her own misery. In a perfect world, she would either be completely monogamous to him or if that's not enough, then be in a polyamorous relationship with him and Marie or whoever else he ended up marrying. Remember she never acted out fucking girls like crazy until AFTER the MC and Marie got together and became a serious couple.
Oh my God, you're right! Deb is an angel! She has a kind soul, but she's so misundestood! Are we serious right now? If Marie hadn't die (?) the MC would have never found out the multiple ways Deb betrayed him! If she actually loved him she could tell him something like, I don't know "Hey dude, your wife wants to fuck me, what should I do?", or anything in that context. Or if it was sooo hard for her to resist the temptation, she could have said something afterwards. At some point in all those years that followed... You know the whole "no secrets between us" thing she seems to never remember... But she didn't say shit, because once again, the only person Deb loves, is Deb. The same reason she never said anything about her relationship with their mother, before there was a chance he'd get it on with her.
You're right, she fucked up and admits it or even acknowledges it. She feels shame and guilt not so much for the sex, but for not telling him about them sooner. But she also said, it's not completely her fault, after all it takes 2 to tango and Marie came on to her, why the fuck didn't she feel the need to tell her own husband about her bi-curious experimentation? While I only agree with only 50% of her justification, she does have a point no matter how frustrating it is that he'll never have the chance to question Marie directly why she would do that to him. My only guess here is she knew about Deb and his affair going back to before they were married, and decided she wanted to cheat and have some lesbian sex with her best friend but wasn't ready to share that side of her with her husband. It's fucked up and even I can't justify her decision, but this is coming from the same person who decided to come up with the asinine plan to leave her husband, take their daughter and disappear only then to marry another man, while supposedly still in love with her childhood sweetheart and optimistic one day they will get back together....oh yeah and she also lied to her daughter telling her the MC was a piece of shit that didn't want his daughter. So....I guess what I'm trying to say is in this case, Marie is clearly 100% in the wrong and created this whole clusterfuck of a mess instead of supporting her husband or at least trying to convince him to move away somewhere else to start their lives over after the military.

That's subjective. In my playthrough that's exactly what she did with Jules. She was the one I was mostly interested in, I made sure to flirt with her at every chance, but in the end she chose Deb, because she did what she knows best acted like a bull (remember the random fingering in hall?) and lied to her. Deb initially wanted a threesome, but she wanted that for herself (do you see a pattern here?). She didn't take the time to actually ask the other two people how they feel about it, all that mattered was what she wanted. She lied (Deb lied? Shocking, I know!) to Jules that the MC was on board and tried to use the fact that he showed interest in her to get him to join them and when that didn't work, instead of backing out she decided it was ok to fuck him over, because that's what she does best.
Again it's completely subjective if you don't to acknowledge the classic definition of NTR. I don't to debate that can of worms, suffice to say she optimistically assumed offering a 3some with Julia would not only scratch her own itch but ingratiate herself with both Julia and the MC, in other words, win-win. Clearly another miscalculation, clearly she knows Julia is interested in her brother, and I'm guessing also can see his interest in her, so in her mind, she felt like hey, I can get in on a 3 some while hooking these 2 up, so why not? If she didn't care, and only wanted Julia for herself, she would never have bother tempting her brother with the video feed or promising to Julia she could deliver her brother to join them. Again, another misunderstanding where the MC thought he missed out on Julia to another of Deb's lesbian conquests, without ever knowing the truth about all of Deb's sexual motivations. IMHO, Deb wanted to share an intimate sexual experience with him and not just bang another chick without him.

In any case, I'm not going to convince you and that's ok, we can just agree to disagree. I'm more of a hopeless romantic to that's going to influence every character interaction I see with the MC and of course makes me want to root for all of them to settle their differences and just all be together (to varying degrees).
 
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TundraLupus

Well-Known Member
Apr 8, 2020
1,767
2,064
It's a good question, IIRC, Julia basically put it out there she prefers the MC, but if he isn't interested in pursuing her, then she will give the other guy a date/guaranteed hook-up. I don't recall why the sharing option was never addressed, the way it was presented was all or nothing, with her giving the first right of refusal depending on his interest. If I had to speculate, Julia is the one not interested in sharing, she's possibly a 1-cock kinda gal only. Given that I don't share with other guys, it worked out for me and just kept her for myself. ;)
if that is the case is fine, as long as the Mc doesn't every update says something like "I'm okay with you being with other girls but not with guys", which he doesn't so again all good so far but it got me curious since the conversations about relationships are kind of a mess, wich again fits the game because all characters suck at communicating.
 
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Content_Consumer

Active Member
Dec 24, 2019
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I see a lot of people hating Deb for her role in lying to the MC. Have people forgotten why Deb and the MCs family lied to the MC all this time? The MC was in danger of seriously fucking up his life by becoming a whistle blower and risking spending the rest of his life in prison. The plan of Marie and Milly disappearing was to distract the MC from revealing military secrets. Deb was the only one who opposed the idea but since she was outvoted she went along with it, on the condition that Marie also cut ties with her.
You should check the time-lines again, what you're talking about was only the case for the first 2 or so years, the 5 years after that, particularly the last 2 or so when Deb was again in contact with both the ex-wife and daughter had nothing to do with the initial plan.
Deb also went along with the idea that the MC no longer care about his kid, allowing his kid to suffer and grow that anger and hate towards the MC for 5 years, not saying anything to the daughter even AFTER the ex-wife was reported as dead.
 

Content_Consumer

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Dec 24, 2019
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So far, she never actually apologized to the MC or give him an honest explanation for her actions, her remorse is more for the player to see, than for the MC to feel, she is not a victim, she was one of the perpetrators, and until we see her give the MC some honest answers, well....... don't expect people to just love her.

Exactly.

So far it looks a lot more like she's sorry her part in everything got found out and her plans to have MC all to herself endangered rather than sorry at what she actually did to the MC and daughter.
 

Content_Consumer

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Dec 24, 2019
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But everything she did with Millie was done with the intent to get the MC back into his daughter's good graces who at that time still hated his guts and did not know everything
And yet Deb could have told her at any point in the last years and even after the ex-wife was reported as dead yet didn't because it would have put Deb in a bad light and its all about what Deb wants, Deb has never acted selflessly towards the MC and the bathroom incident was the first selfless thing she ever did for the daughter.

so in her mind, she felt like hey, I can get in on a 3 some while hooking these 2 up, so why not?
Again, as even you say, its all about if Deb can gain something from the situation, she didn't do it selflessly for the supposedly most important person in the world to her.
 

eddie987

Well-Known Member
Dec 5, 2018
1,527
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Again, if Deb didn't care about the MC she wouldn't be the one being comforted by Julia after their sex, which is the scene that happens looking at the camera feed. As for Millie, sure she was flirting with her niece, no different that how Millie was actively pursuing her until the MC told her to back off. At which point despite her desire and lust kicking in, she kept telling Millie, no, it was not going happen. She can't control Millie basically stalking her, rubbing up on her trying every thing she can to have sex with her, especially since she knows her aunt likes girls too. As far grooming her goes, yes, to an extent I agree she was grooming her. But if anything she was grooming her with the intention of allowing her father to be the first one to be with her, then, maybe she could have her fun as well considering by then the family secret would be out in the open. But everything she did with Millie was done with the intent to get the MC back into his daughter's good graces who at that time still hated his guts and did not know everything .
Again, she's not that stupid, she knows when she fucks up, but still doing it because that's who she is. She cares for herself more than anything and anyone else. She needed comfort because she realised she might lose her favourite toy. After this last update I don't like Milly either. She's supposedly enamoured with the MC, and now she can have him, she's still ready to bang anything with a pulse because he wants to take it slow and she's horny. Let's just rename her Deb 0.2. The last part is also about Deb not being that stupid, she knows the MC cares about Milly more than anything so she tried to hold back (for her standards at least) but still provoked him at every chance and took what she could without crossing the line too much.

Look that's your definition of a committed relationship. It's clear that they have enjoyed an open relationship at least going back to when Marie left him. Besides that, several people are in open/polyamorous marriages /relationships, it doesn't mean they love their partners any less, especially if they happen to have high sex drives and for them its just about the sex only. Let's not forget, Deb is frustrated in so much as despite having sex with her brother, a little thing called incest prevented her dream of marrying her brother and having his babies is more or less ruining her life. At this point, the only way she can cope is settling for being the 'other' woman back when he was still married to Marie, while still having her own lesbian flings to distract her from her own misery. In a perfect world, she would either be completely monogamous to him or if that's not enough, then be in a polyamorous relationship with him and Marie or whoever else he ended up marrying. Remember she never acted out fucking girls like crazy until AFTER the MC and Marie got together and became a serious couple.
Well, at the start of the game we find out she's trying to convince the MC to move in with her and like you said have kids. That doesn't really sound like an invitation to an open relationship. Even if that's the case thought, going after other women, while trying to get back together with him, doesn't really make sense, does it? It doesn't show him she wants him back, but that she's just horny. Her actions show someone who wants to get laid, not someone who's in love.
We don't know when she started banging every woman in sight. She supposedly did it because she thought the MC has been doing the same thing, but even after she found out that's not true, nothing changed. Besides, she's always acting like a predator and that's not something you "learn", that's her character. We also don't know when she was banging Ma (which I still don't know why it had to be a thing, is the MC supposed to have a "Deb's sloppy seconds" fetish or something?) and if that preceded her affair with Marie or not.

You're right, she fucked up and admits it or even acknowledges it. She feels shame and guilt not so much for the sex, but for not telling him about them sooner. But she also said, it's not completely her fault, after all it takes 2 to tango and Marie came on to her, why the fuck didn't she feel the need to tell her own husband about her bi-curious experimentation? While I only agree with only 50% of her justification, she does have a point no matter how frustrating it is that he'll never have the chance to question Marie directly why she would do that to him. My only guess here is she knew about Deb and his affair going back to before they were married, and decided she wanted to cheat and have some lesbian sex with her best friend but wasn't ready to share that side of her with her husband. It's fucked up and even I can't justify her decision, but this is coming from the same person who decided to come up with the asinine plan to leave her husband, take their daughter and disappear only then to marry another man, while supposedly still in love with her childhood sweetheart and optimistic one day they will get back together....oh yeah and she also lied to her daughter telling her the MC was a piece of shit that didn't want his daughter. So....I guess what I'm trying to say is in this case, Marie is clearly 100% in the wrong and created this whole clusterfuck of a mess instead of supporting her husband or at least trying to convince him to move away somewhere else to start their lives over after the military.
So, because Marie was a fucking moron (I have a feeling of deja vu, so I might have called her something like that in the past too), that absolves Deb? She could have told him what's going on and he would have to either accept it or get a divorce. That should be a win-win situation for Deb, if she actually thought he's the love of her life, right? She would either get them both and without being "forced" to keep any secrets from him or he would be free and she would be there to give him comfort. But that way there was a chance she'd lose Marie, so once again she went with what would be best for her, even if that could hurt the supposed love of her life long term.

Again it's completely subjective if you don't to acknowledge the classic definition of NTR. I don't to debate that can of worms, suffice to say she optimistically assumed offering a 3some with Julia would not only scratch her own itch but ingratiate herself with both Julia and the MC, in other words, win-win. Clearly another miscalculation, clearly she knows Julia is interested in her brother, and I'm guessing also can see his interest in her, so in her mind, she felt like hey, I can get in on a 3 some while hooking these 2 up, so why not? If she didn't care, and only wanted Julia for herself, she would never have bother tempting her brother with the video feed or promising to Julia she could deliver her brother to join them. Again, another misunderstanding where the MC thought he missed out on Julia to another of Deb's lesbian conquests, without ever knowing the truth about all of Deb's sexual motivations. IMHO, Deb wanted to share an intimate sexual experience with him and not just bang another chick without him.
Everything you said have one thing in common, everything was about what she wanted. I never said she wanted to bang her alone, she didn't try to hook them up and maybe later join in either. She wanted a threesome and when she didn't get it, she still decided to bang her out of spite, even if she knew the MC was interested in her and Julia (I don't believe it anymore, but that's what we're supposed to believe) interested in him. That's my point, everything is about Deb.

In any case, I'm not going to convince you and that's ok, we can just agree to disagree. I'm more of a hopeless romantic to that's going to influence every character interaction I see with the MC and of course makes me want to root for all of them to settle their differences and just all be together (to varying degrees).
I on the other hand want to keep the MC as far from Deb, Jules and Ma (after the last update I'm not sure about Milly either) as possible exactly because I don't see them as romantic interests anymore, but more like the female equivalent of "thinking with his dick".
Sure, neither of us has to convince the other one he's right and that's fine. If everyone agreed on everything, life would be very boring.
 

Crimsonfiend76

Herald - Super Naked Ginger Cuddle Time
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Sep 8, 2020
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So, because Marie was a fucking moron (I have a feeling of deja vu, so I might have called her something like that in the past too), that absolves Deb? She could have told him what's going on and he would have to either accept it or get a divorce. That should be a win-win situation for Deb, if she actually thought he's the love of her life, right? She would either get them both and without being "forced" to keep any secrets from him or he would be free and she would be there to give him comfort. But that way there was a chance she'd lose Marie, so once again she went with what would be best for her, even if that could hurt the supposed love of her life long term.
I will say this, on this point I agree with you 100%, there really was no justification for Deb and Marie to fool around behind the MC's back. I can only guess the reason she may lie to herself and say why she never told him was Marie had already left him, and then when she died, there was no point throwing more dirt on his ex-wife/childhood sweetheart and mother of his child by bringing up a rather dirty secret that would cast them both (Marie and Deb) in a very bad light.

I can ALMOST forgive them both if Marie knowing she was already attracted to Deb and waited to get her drunk before coming on to her to see her reaction and if she would allow her to be her first, but if Deb was sober enough to tell her no, initially, then she should have left and told the MC immediately to have a talk with his wife. If she was that drunk to allow Marie to get in her pants, it should have stayed a regrettable one night stand, with Deb confessing to the MC immediately what happened and begged for his forgiveness. But since neither of those things happened, and we can assume Deb kept seeing her even after she left her brother, well.... there really is no justification for that level of betrayal.

For everything else, I'm just going to play devil's advocate and see how this plays out. I'm curious why no Julia love, other than agreeing to have sex with Deb (she was horny and single at the time and the MC never made a move on her), why that would take her off your list of acceptable L.I., especially when she wanted the MC all along?

As for mam, outside of lending a sympathetic ear to her teenage daughter who happened to have a crush on her own brother, literally everything else she's done could be seen as the WRONG choice. If anything I hold her the most responsible for how fucked up the MC ended up, at the very fucking least, she could have pulled her son aside, and explained to him their taboo family heritage if for no other reason than to help him ease his conscious and shame over being in love with his sister and attracted to his own mother. She could have helped them both immeasurably by talking to them both together and separately, showing her love and support to her children, instead she kept her fucking mouth shut, oh and continued to sex up her own sister and daughter, while likewise being attracted to her son, but refused to help him out thinking he had to figure things out on his own. I'm sorry but she's a horrible judge of character, making wrong mistake after wrong mistake, even crossing the line with Marie & the MC's relationship, sticking her nose in where it didn't belong. At best, she maybe could have nudged Marie and dropped some hints about her son and daughter being extra close and to maybe talk to them both about that, but to show Marie those pictures of her kids together in flagrante delicto, well that was too fucked up for words.
 

Spfjolietjake

Conversation Conqueror
Sep 26, 2019
7,505
14,644
I love Deb but I want every LI in this vn. Julia, Astrid...
Phoebe is actually quickly becoming my personal favorite. Just clarifying I like them all...
 
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