VN Ren'Py Triple Ex [v0.23] [Azrayal]

[TundraLupus]

The more I think about it the more I think Marie and Deb were trying to walk a line. To keep MC out of their life forever,yet keep him out of jail on the off chance they might need him later.

And I'm still not convinced the Ex and her husband were murdered because of something the Senator did. I think it was something the ex did.

I'll wait for evidence.

 

[DA22]

Already answered someone else about this, read my previous comment, although you do have new points so:

I agree that she should have come up with something better and that it is fucked up, why she didn't, well maybe they weren't smart enough, our thought that this was the best solution, again my other comment has more details.

Also answered before, twice actually, if I find my complete response i'll edit this with a hyperlink.

They assumed, I assume, and either he would get himself killed or arrested again, probably for life this time, so there, even if he would not be dead he would be gone, satisfied?

No comment, until we get more in-game information.

The question though is where did they base that assumption on? He had been years in jail, had not told them what or why and still they somehow know his life would be horribly in danger. Major plothole there, unless they did know and then the big question is how. Think you missed my earlier post about that. Besides letting him be with his daughter while understanding he would endanger her by continuing would likely have worked way better to stop him.

Thing is you take what Deb and mom did to Milly as way lighter than I do, to me that is not ah bad they did not know a better way. To me that is the most despicable thing an adult can do to a child and that kind of emotional abuse ranks up there with sexual abuse of a child and is just as bad, so no for me that is not so what but a Deb is a monster.

 

[TundraLupus]

The question though is where did they base that assumption on? He had been years in jail, had not told them what or why and still they somehow know his life would be horribly in danger. Major plothole there, unless they did know and then the big question is how. Think you missed my earlier post about that. Besides letting him be with his daughter while understanding he would endanger her by continuing would likely have worked way better to stop him.

Thing is you take what Deb and mom did to Milly as way lighter than I do, to me that is not ah bad they did not know a better way. To me that is the most despicable thing an adult can do to a child and that kind of emotional abuse ranks up there with sexual abuse of a child and is just as bad, so no for me that is not so what but a Deb is a monster.

I don't remember the beginning anymore, so I don't really know, but hey, people assume Deb planed the whole thing from the begging just to make the MC suffer, so it isn't impossible, also maybe she got the intel from her CO, they seem to have a close relationship, but yeah, I don't know, and the game is in the beginning, so we may or may not figure it out. I just hope with have less scene where the MC is not there, sexual or not, I really don't like having intel that the MC doesn't.

And yes, I do, mostly because for me that shit is normal, my father used to hit me because of things my younger brother did, or if he was just drunk enough, my mother literally threw a wardrobe hanger thingy on my back, and again for something my younger brother did, and this is just the physical stuff, abuse warps your mind, it makes a lot more things seem more acceptable, also empathy, I put myself in their place, also, I'm my mc acts on information he actually has, not me as a player, also-also my parents had very little say on how I grew up, mostly I saw them as money, because they never built a relationship with me, so the fact that Milly is that affected is weird in my eyes, now, I never said it was forgivable, I never said that my MC will forgive, I'm just saying, wishing to kill a character, or for a re-write is stupid and a overeaction, now for those just asking for the option to not be in a relationship with Deb, yeah, i'm with you, the more choices the better, but if you want to manipulate the relationship she has with other NPC, then no, i hate when we have control over NPC's, it makes no sense, just acept that there are things in the game world that you can't change, that actually makes it better when you actually can, but that might be just me.

Edit: And you know what is more fucked up, they aren't bad people, that is just how they were taught to raise their kids, they are Meh people, but not really bad.

 

[DA22]

I don't remember the begging anymore, so I don't really know, but hey, people assume Deb planed the whole thing from the begging just to make the MC suffer, so it isn't impossible, also maybe she got the intel from her CO, they seem to have a close relationship, but yeah, I don't know, and the game is in the beginning, so we may or may not figure it out. I just hope with have less scene where the MC is not there, sexual or not, I really don't like having intel that the MC doesn't.

And yes, I do, mostly because for me that shit is normal, my father used to hit me because of things my younger brother did, or if he was just drunk enough, my mother literally threw a wardrobe hanger thingy on my back, and again for something my younger brother did, and this is just the physical stuff, abuse warps your mind, it makes a lot more things seem more acceptable, also empathy, I put myself in their place, also, I'm my mc acts on information he actually has, not me as a player, also-also my parents had very little say on how I grew up, mostly I saw them as money, because they never built a relationship with me, so the fact that Milly is that affected is weird in my eyes, now, I never said it was forgivable, I never said that my MC will forgive, I'm just saying, wishing to kill a character, or for a re-write is stupid and a overeaction, now for those just asking for the option to not be in a relationship with Deb, yeah, i'm with you, the more choices the better, but if you want to manipulate the relationship she has with other NPC, then no, i hate when we have control over NPC's, it makes no sense, just acept that there are things in the game world that you can't change, that actually makes it better when you actually can, but that might be just me.

I am not asking to change anything about Deb, just explaining why I dislike Deb as much as I do and why I think her behavior is not funny but dangerous. Well I understand Milly better, since we all react different to trauma's such as she and you had and I have had my share as well. Just different again and reacted different and part of the reason I feel so strong about it.

I am well aware though that dev created Deb how she is for a reason, just not sure if he overhit the mark, she indeed is the antagonist, used as a tool by the Ex that knew her weaknesses or something else. Same fact that it seems everyone swallows bullshit of Deb as the Gospels, while there is plenty of information around to the contrary is likely also a plotpoint. To me as a third party player it almost seems like she has mind control powers to pull that off. Well the future will tell us.

I think we both agree on fact that MC is written kinda badly considering his background. Now that is most likely for story purposes, but it kinda gives a big tear between expected behavior of MC and his actual behavior that goes beyond the normal amount of disbelieve I can bring up.

Concerning fact we know more as MC, yes that makes his behavior even weaker especially since it is info MC could have picked up on if he were a bit sharper tool, which you might expect him to be as an ex special ops (they may not be supermen, but they are an elite), though it was overexposed to us players.

 

[TundraLupus]

I am not asking to change anything about Deb, just explaining why I dislike Deb as much as I do and why I think her behavior is not funny but dangerous. Well I understand Milly better, since we all react different to trauma's such as she and you had and I have had my share as well. Just different again and reacted different and part of the reason I feel so strong about it.

I am well aware though that dev created Deb how she is for a reason, just not sure if he overhit the mark, she indeed is the antagonist, used as a tool by the Ex that knew her weaknesses or something else. Same fact that it seems everyone swallows bullshit of Deb as the Gospels, while there is plenty of information around to the contrary is likely also a plotpoint. To me as a third party player it almost seems like she has mind control powers to pull that off. Well the future will tell us.

I think we both agree on fact that MC is written kindly badly considering his background. Now that is most likely for story purposes, but it kinda gives a big tear between expected behavior of MC and his actual behavior that goes beyond the normal amount of disbelieve I can bring up.

Concerning fact we know more as MC, yes that makes his behavior even weaker especially since it is info MC could have picked up on if he were a bit sharper tool, though it was overexposed to us players.

You might not, and hey I'm with you there, most of the time tough I answered to those who did, and then things snowballed, not that I'm complaining, I find this to be very fun, also YES.

That is most of my point, I prefer to wait and see and then react to it if I'm gonna create a fun theory I prefer to do wholesome ones.

YEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSS, the Mc is the only thing that makes me want to give up on this game at times.

This, this is why I don't like that, because even though it seems to be something he could have picked up on, many players wouldn't have, so it would make it more of a discussion point, it could span fan theories, and much more.

 

[DA22]

You might not, and hey I'm with you there, most of the time tough I answered to those who did, and then things snowballed, not that I'm complaining, I find this to be very fun, also YES.

That is most of my point, I prefer to wait and see and then react to it if I'm gonna create a fun theory I prefer to do wholesome ones.

YEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSS, the Mc is the only thing that makes me want to give up on this game at times.

This, this is why I don't like that, because even though it seems to be something he could have picked up on, many players wouldn't have, so it would make it more of a discussion point, it could span fan theories, and much more.

Yeah my fan theory at this moment and already for a while is that either Deb or the Ex/Senator couple are somehow connected to getting MC into jail and that one of them (or possibly but less likely a third party that we do not know yet and manipulated both Deb and the Ex) hates/loves MC so much that they did and do everything possible to make his life a misery. It is one of the only ways that all those plotholes (except MC's behavior with his background) make real sense and are not plotholes, since I do have some confidence in the devs planning.

 

[TundraLupus]

Yeah my fan theory at this moment and already for a while is that either Deb or the Ex/Senator couple are somehow connected to getting MC into jail and that one of them (or possibly a third party that we do not know yet and manipulated both Deb and the Ex) hates/loves MC so much that they did and do everything possible to make his life a misery. It is one of the only ways that all those plotholes (except MC's behavior with his background) make real sense.

I really just think it will be something simpler, but my own is that the wife and senator didn't die, they are using this to uncover who is after the senator and put a stop to it and got the MC to keep her daughter safe, and maybe make things better, not that it would work, because it would be fucked up, but as I said I prefer wholesome theories.

 

[Osamabeenfappin]

I really just think it will be something simpler, but my own is that the wife and senator didn't die, they are using this to uncover who is after the senator and put a stop to it and got the MC to keep her daughter safe, and maybe make things better, not that it would work, because it would be fucked up, but as I said I prefer wholesome theories.

I get where your coming from,but in a way a random change of heart after 7years almost feels more messed up.

I'm more inclined to believe that If the senator and the ex are still alive,they're simply using the MC to clean up their mess. I don't feel like anyone in this game has earned the benefit of the doubt when it comes to thier interactions with the MC.

With the possible exception of the chick you wake up next to in the begining.

And if that's true I hope it's due to plot,as opposed to plot holes,or poorly thought out characterization.

 

[DA22]

You might not, and hey I'm with you there, most of the time tough I answered to those who did, and then things snowballed, not that I'm complaining, I find this to be very fun, also YES.

That is most of my point, I prefer to wait and see and then react to it if I'm gonna create a fun theory I prefer to do wholesome ones.

YEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSS, the Mc is the only thing that makes me want to give up on this game at times.

This, this is why I don't like that, because even though it seems to be something he could have picked up on, many players wouldn't have, so it would make it more of a discussion point, it could span fan theories, and much more.

The thing is though that last point does not only go for MC, but also all the other women including Milly. It seems like they all have a substandard IQ even if we are told differently.

I get her reaction that her first reaction after reading the letter would be she should have had a reason to lie. Children do protect their parents and have a habit of wanting to think well off them, but some doubt or at least a nagging thought should have been there.

I am more with Osama here and think the plot is evil and not wholesome in the end. Though I hope MC will get his brains back and can get some revenge and make it a wholesome and relatively happy ending for the survivors. At best I suspect both the Ex and Deb have been manipulated, but I am pretty sure that with the Ex there was not only love but also a big hurt that she acted upon with regard to MC that might have made it possible for her to be manipulated. I can be wrong though of course and you right.

 

[Osamabeenfappin]

The thing is though that last point does not only go for MC, but also all the other women including Milly. It seems like they all have a substandard IQ even if we are told differently.

I get her reaction that her first reaction after reading the letter would be she should have had a reason to lie. Children do protect their parents and have a habit of wanting to think well off them, but some doubt or at least a nagging thought should have been there.

I am more with Osama here and think the plot is evil and not wholesome in the end. Though I hope MC will get his brains back and can get some revenge and make it a wholesome and relatively happy ending for the survivors.

I just don't see a happy ending for the MC in this game unless he becomes a total Simp.

 

[TundraLupus]

I get where your coming from,but in a way a random change of heart after 7years almost feels more messed up.

I'm more inclined to believe that If the senator and the ex are still alive,they're simply using the MC to clean up their mess. I don't feel like anyone in this game has earned the benefit of the doubt when it comes to thier interactions with the MC.

With the possible exception of the chick you wake up next to in the begining.

And if that's true I hope it's due to plot,as opposed to plot holes,or poorly thought out characterization.

Not really, she has been in contact with Deb, she would have known that the MC was better, that even though the tracking of his daughter and ex had gone cold he didn't go back to his previous thing, maybe that was the turning point, most likely though he is there to protect Milly and that is it, as I said i met my share of people that do this stuff and don't think they did something bad, and as I said as well, I go from what the MC knows, and will ignore anything else until he figures it out. But in the end, I'll just wait and see, and not assume anything.

The thing is though that last point does not only go for MC, but also all the other women including Milly. It seems like they all have a substandard IQ even if we are told differently.

I get her reaction that her first reaction after reading the letter would be she should have had a reason to lie. Children do protect their parents and have a habit of wanting to think well off them, but some doubt or at least a nagging thought should have been there.

I am more with Osama here and think the plot is evil and not wholesome in the end. Though I hope MC will get his brains back and can get some revenge and make it a wholesome and relatively happy ending for the survivors. At best I suspect both the Ex and Deb have been manipulated, but I am pretty sure that with the Ex there was not only love but also a big hurt that she acted upon with regard to MC that might have made it possible for her to be manipulated.

I can agree there somewhat, at least the MC and his sister for sure.

Yeah, I think we didn't really get the full consequence of the letter yet, so far she said that it made her understand that he wasn't really the bad guy, but she still resents him from not finding her, and now I think she resents her mother a little at least, but again she thinks she is dead so she needs a scapegoat.

As I said I prefer to wait without making assumptions, but so far I think it is more of a neutral tone than anything, there is some good, there is some bad, and the end is not really that predictable, which for me is good.

 

[Osamabeenfappin]

tundralupus My worry is tying Milly's relationship to MC'S willpower score,implies that MC is going to be a puppet.

However I get that you're talking about things that are strictly in universe,and I'm looking at actual game mechanics.

Only time will tell.

 

[DA22]

Not really, she has been in contact with Deb, she would have known that the MC was better, that even though the tracking of his daughter and ex had gone cold he didn't go back to his previous thing, maybe that was the turning point, most likely though he is there to protect Milly and that is it, as I said i met my share of people that do this stuff and don't think they did something bad, and as I said as well, I go from what the MC knows, and will ignore anything else until he figures it out. But in the end, I'll just wait and see, and not assume anything.


I can agree there somewhat, at least the MC and his sister for sure.

Yeah, I think we didn't really get the full consequence of the letter yet, so far she said that it made her understand that he wasn't really the bad guy, but she still resents him from not finding her, and now I think she resents her mother a little at least, but again she thinks she is dead so she needs a scapegoat.

As I said I prefer to wait without making assumptions, but so far I think it is more of a neutral tone than anything, there is some good, there is some bad, and the end is not really that predictable, which for me is good.

Yeah to me though, the whole setup with disappearing to protect MC just does not smell right and does not add up with those characters, unless they were involved with what got MC in jail somehow or they were manipulated by that person/group. Just me though, like I said I might be wrong and you right and Ex loved MC deeply but was just another emotionally completely defunct person for whatever reason and that was also reason why she could do to Milly what she did.

Though MC doing well is relative, he might not have been hunting for those responsible, but was a complete shell of a man with no live left. If you think that is doing better for the man that you love, then please never let a woman like that fall in love with me.

 

[TundraLupus]

tundralupus My worry is tying Milly's relationship to MC'S willpower score,implies that MC is going to be a puppet.

However I get that you're talking about things that are strictly in universe,and I'm looking at actual game mechanics.

Only time will tell.

Yeah, a lot of the variables worry me as well, the MC one I think is gonna be the one that actually dictates that or maybe that one with the willpower, but so far I don't see them being utilized, I don't doubt the dev might just take them out at some point, personally I prefer to play games with booleans(flags) instead of a point system.

 

[Glooskabe]

That is most of my point, I prefer to wait and see and then react to it if I'm gonna create a fun theory I prefer to do wholesome ones.

I'm not sure if you are aware, but making theories and predictions are a huge part of what it means to be an engaged reader. It's actually explicitly part of the elementary level Reading/Language Arts curriculum, at least where I am in the USA. Of course, the second part of the strategy is follow through: checking your theory/prediction against what happens in the text. The big obstacle in this case is the huge amount of time between installments of the story. What we are doing here is a big part of what it means to be a "good" reader/consumer of literature. (I use that term somewhat loosely, but I do think that this story does have some literary aspirations beyond the typical fap-fest we find here. It's why we all are willing to virtually shout at each other for hours here after all!)

tundralupus, do you have any background in literary criticism? I'm asking because your insistence on evidence only from the text is a characteristic of some schools of criticism. The caveat, though, is that you are also supposed to consider from what PART of the text you are taking your evidence. Not all parts/characters in a story are equal. Unreliable narrators are a real thing, and I think there are many unreliable narrators in this story. Deb is the biggest. Marie is the second biggest. And even the MC is a bit unreliable, at least in as much as he often doesn't respond to shit thrown at him so we don't have any context to evaluate its veracity or not.

On the other hand, making connections between a story and the reader's own life and experiences is another completely valid reading/criticism strategy.

Look what you guys have made me do? I've had to put on my stodgy, pedantic teacher/professor persona! It's a lazy, rainy Sunday afternoon, and I'm trying to play the most recent update of one of my favorite games (Now and Then if you're interested! Check it out!) Stop distracting me!

 

[Glooskabe]

Yeah, a lot of the variables worry me as well, the MC one I think is gonna be the one that actually dictates that or maybe that one with the willpower, but so far I don't see them being utilized, I don't doubt the dev might just take them out at some point, personally I prefer to play games with booleans(flags) instead of a point system.

That is certainly a much more refined story control mechanism! A LOT harder to program and keep track of though...

 

[Rinbael]

Yeah, a lot of the variables worry me as well, the MC one I think is gonna be the one that actually dictates that or maybe that one with the willpower, but so far I don't see them being utilized, I don't doubt the dev might just take them out at some point, personally I prefer to play games with booleans(flags) instead of a point system.

I agree with you and think that like you said the points might just be taken out. The game has been in development for a long time and there doesn't seem to be any time where the points you gain have been relevant to any choice in game. I also personally prefer games that rely on flags instead of a point system but I have no idea about coding so I don't know how hard that would be to implement.

 

[Glooskabe]

I agree with you and think that like you said the points might just be taken out. The game has been in development for a long time and there doesn't seem to be any time where the points you gain have been relevant to any choice in game. I also personally prefer games that rely on flags instead of a point system but I have no idea about coding so I don't know how hard that would be to implement.

The coding is easy. Keeping everything organized is the hassle! If you think about it mathematically, each time you have a choice, you branch the story. As the story grows, the number of possible paths expands exponentially. Unless you consciously close off certain paths and merge others, it gets unwieldy pretty damn quick!

 

[Osamabeenfappin]

The coding is easy. Keeping everything organized is the hassle! If you think about it mathematically, each time you have a choice, you branch the story. As the story grows, the number of possible paths expands exponentially. Unless you consciously close off certain paths and merge others, it gets unwieldy pretty damn quick!

Yea Being a Dik is a prime example of how freaking out of hand a point system can get. Love the game, but
that download is massive.

 

[Rinbael]

The coding is easy. Keeping everything organized is the hassle! If you think about it mathematically, each time you have a choice, you branch the story. As the story grows, the number of possible paths expands exponentially. Unless you consciously close off certain paths and merge others, it gets unwieldy pretty damn quick!

When you put it that way I kind of get what you mean. For example if there is a choice whether the MC has toast or cereal for his breakfast that ends up with a branching path then the next day you add on another choice it can pile up and be a nightmare to manage.