- Jun 21, 2018
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I wonder if there's any point in having 27c basic uploaded when you have 27c extented uploaded
- Thread starter 7767
- Start date
Diconica Automation processes are sure huge time savers and reduce amount of human error, but manual work will always be superior in terms of overall quality, since you control everything. Your idea would definitely work, if I wanted to limit players to only 1 trait per stat type, while I want to give them freedom in either making 1 stat overpowered or totally unusable. Sorry, I'm a total nerd when it comes to RPGishness, and always in my games gave players a choice and freedom when it came to character creation, never stopping them from bad builds either. Also, best programmers are always lazy, and I would hire a lazy one myself 
Thanks a lot for the input! You actually gave me an idea about some other feature to try out
edgartheslayer Well, EX version is superior over BA, but it becomes public like one month after BA, so you have to wait more for it, and since I stopped working on the UotW and moved into the UiTC game re-make, it didn't seem fair to keep EX version behind the paywall, so I also released it to the public, thus you have no reason to really support me on the Patreon right now, since I don't have anything to offer. That's why I'm trying my best to release UiTC in the October.
Thanks a lot for the input! You actually gave me an idea about some other feature to try out edgartheslayer Well, EX version is superior over BA, but it becomes public like one month after BA, so you have to wait more for it, and since I stopped working on the UotW and moved into the UiTC game re-make, it didn't seem fair to keep EX version behind the paywall, so I also released it to the public, thus you have no reason to really support me on the Patreon right now, since I don't have anything to offer. That's why I'm trying my best to release UiTC in the October.
It was only a suggestion. It's your game ultimately it has to be what you decide.Diconica Automation processes are sure huge time savers and reduce amount of human error, but manual work will always be superior in terms of overall quality, since you control everything. Your idea would definitely work, if I wanted to limit players to only 1 trait per stat type, while I want to give them freedom in either making 1 stat overpowered or totally unusable. Sorry, I'm a total nerd when it comes to RPGishness, and always in my games gave players a choice and freedom when it came to character creation, never stopping them from bad builds either. Also, best programmers are always lazy, and I would hire a lazy one myself
edgartheslayer Well, EX version is superior over BA, but it becomes public like one month after BA, so you have to wait more for it, and since I stopped working on the UotW and moved into the UiTC game re-make, it didn't seem fair to keep EX version behind the paywall, so I also released it to the public, thus you have no reason to really support me on the Patreon right now, since I don't have anything to offer. That's why I'm trying my best to release UiTC in the October.
That said I disagree with, "Manual work will always be superior".
Manual can at times be superior. At one point I would have agreed with you. But that was many years back.
You couldn't make a modern processor today without automation. Just not possible at all.
Most modern compilers equal or better code than programmers using assembly.
My specialization happens to run in automation, Power plants, chemical plants, wafer fabs, vehicles....
Out of all of them I would say machines generally do a better job. Vehicles is the exception. Human drivers are still better.
Human's have the ability to deal with situations they haven't experienced or been programmed for. Example air plane landing on road, tree and building falling into road. Your probably going well how often does that happen.. Well I'm 50+; 2 air craft in the last 10 years, I've been through over a dozen major earth quakes globally, 20 tornadoes, 6 cat 4 to 5 hurricanes. 4 major floods. Some people might consider me a magnet for disaster.
- May 24, 2020
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UiTC = Improve graphic or new story?Diconica Automation processes are sure huge time savers and reduce amount of human error, but manual work will always be superior in terms of overall quality, since you control everything. Your idea would definitely work, if I wanted to limit players to only 1 trait per stat type, while I want to give them freedom in either making 1 stat overpowered or totally unusable. Sorry, I'm a total nerd when it comes to RPGishness, and always in my games gave players a choice and freedom when it came to character creation, never stopping them from bad builds either. Also, best programmers are always lazy, and I would hire a lazy one myself
edgartheslayer Well, EX version is superior over BA, but it becomes public like one month after BA, so you have to wait more for it, and since I stopped working on the UotW and moved into the UiTC game re-make, it didn't seem fair to keep EX version behind the paywall, so I also released it to the public, thus you have no reason to really support me on the Patreon right now, since I don't have anything to offer. That's why I'm trying my best to release UiTC in the October.
Why don't you go after pizza for ripping off pancakes. You'd have to be blind not to see that.
Diconica Well, you obviously have much more skill & experience in programming (and disasters, lol) than me, but with manual work I meant game dev, sorry for not being clear. I'm 30 years old and I was obsessed with games and game dev since I was a small kid, and every time devs go with automation process (mostly noticeable in RPGs and games with automatically generated loot, like Borderlands or World of Warcraft), it becomes total boring bullshit where new items are so simplified and souless, that you don't care about them at all, you don't remember their names, their icons, all you look at is whether they have higher numbers on them. I could write an essay here about it. So yeah, if you want to make game with unlimited amount of items and enemies, automation is a way to go, but don't expect them to be "cool" or even balanced in any way if you go too crazy with some effects.
thomastm UiTC (Unaware in The City) will be the same game in terms of story and events, but everything related to art (characters, locations, UI) is made from scratch and will get it's own OST, so some stuff (like animations) might have to change, too. Together with it I'll be adding some quality of life changes, adding more traits (and increasing amount of positive traits to pick), so yeah, I'll be making grind a bit easier, too.
thomastm UiTC (Unaware in The City) will be the same game in terms of story and events, but everything related to art (characters, locations, UI) is made from scratch and will get it's own OST, so some stuff (like animations) might have to change, too. Together with it I'll be adding some quality of life changes, adding more traits (and increasing amount of positive traits to pick), so yeah, I'll be making grind a bit easier, too.
First, I understand your point but you seem to have got something confused.
I'm not talking the type of automation such as using RNG to develop stuff.
I'm talking about the type were you have a thousand emails to send to people that all are basically the same thing but you need to enter the name and email address for each one. If you are smart you automate that process using a form and mailing system.
In this case it wouldn't reduce your creativity any it would just make it faster and easier for you to do without having to do the work in isolating each one.
You get all the same stuff with more functionality and less work in doing it.
Balance:
Hmmm. You mean like the balance that could make a character unplayable?
JK ~ just had to throw that out.
Balance though is over rated. In real life we have no balance. Life isn't fair. There are plenty of weapons vastly superior to others. There isn't any such thing as a real trade off in many cases. There are people with vastly more intellect and physical capability than others. There are people who have neither.
Bad RNG:
There are a lot of bad uses of RNG out there I can totally agree with that sentiment.
The first game I wrote was on an atari 800xl it was a tron light cycle type. I then wrote a variant of worms that updated the way it played all in 48k. I also wrote my first 3D renderer on it. In high school my teacher worked for IBM she convinced them to let us test the PC AT & XT for them. If you had my real name you could find me on sites like flipcode.com along with a few other well known developers. I'm not one of the well known. Most of the stuff I work on is in the experimental area. Things like generating terrain and AI systems and other stuff that falls out side the game field.
The biggest problem with RNG is people who don't know how to use it. They think randomizing something is enough. Sure things in RL are random. But it is always usually dependent on other factors that changes the amount of randomness and scale and other factors.
I guess I spend a lot of time trying to mimic Real Life and then explain things that we see and how they are actually connected. At some point you tend to realize there is never anything that works entirely independently. Everything is part of a system.
Take a treasure chest. If there is a treasure chest in existence in some location it is there because someone used it to store stuff. They want the items to be secure. So it is unlikely you are going to find common goods in it that are easily replaceable. Well that's not entirely true. Someone could be using it as pantry because they simply don't have another box to keep critters out of. But the likelihood is slim. Then you have to consider were the treasure came from. Was it gotten locally if so then it would represent what would be considered of value in that region. If not maybe the individuals brought it with them from where ever they came from. In a game it sucks when you open a chest and there isn't anything of any use in there for your character. While that is fairly representative or RL it doesn't make for good game play. If the items aren't usable for the character they should be rather easy to sell or trade for items that are. The problem is developers rarely think it through that far. That's especially true when working on a budget and dealing with deadlines.
Most the randomness we see in real life isn't actual randomness. It is just the appearance of randomness. What it really is is the influence of a large number of things acting on whatever it is we are viewing. You can think of it as the balls on a pool table or the way weather and other force shape terrain. The fact is everything is subjected to influences in most cases more than we can count. Some are to a degree they are significant and some are a lot less.
But as I was saying the automation I was pointing you toward was more about reducing work in the development cycle.
It can be done a couple ways. The first is the trait goes in one class and a second class is made to manage them.
When a new trait is created it registers with the manager.
The manager handles what traits are displayed in the list. It stores a list of all traits. It keeps a link to each trait created.
When a trait is selected it updates the list. This is done by using a routine that loops through the list and removes traits with identical affects. You could also make a list for it to use instead of conflicting traits.
It then generates an id list of traits to display based on the ones that are registered and were not eliminated by the selection system. It saves you the work of making a large if else nest. It also saves on that performance.
The trait class handles the functions / affects of the trait an storing the description and title and so on.
This includes a list of affects and how much that affect is.
If you want to add new affects to the list you need only add it to this class.
You use an update routine to update the class to activate the affects which then runs each routine needed for each affect.
It simply uses a for-loop to cycle through each of the affects you want and run them.
This means you could design lots of traits with mixing of affects and it cost you little work.
- Jun 21, 2018
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Dear Mr Unaware, I have to encourage you to consider slightly rephrasing the description in the changelog regarding the current state of the game. Despite what you wrote, because of how set and stone some of the wording is, some people might still get the wrong idea that this is the end and you're making a completely different game, when in actuality - you simply planned the next update to be a huge graphical change that takes a lot longer than usual, before continuing adding actual new content for the game, correct me if I'm wrong.
Will Unaware in the City have male MC or only female MC like Unaware of the World ?
(Sorry if it's already been asked and answered)
(Sorry if it's already been asked and answered)
- Apr 19, 2020
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Diconica Regarding automation you mentioned, it can dumb down the game concept, just like the RNG. In the trait example, if we manually decide which traits to lock/leave, we have much more freedom & creativity vs automated "lock everything with LW stat" etc. If you are going for simple system, sure, automation will be superior, but I'll never agree that in every single aspect automation will be superior over the manual work.
I'm not trying to re-create our real world with all our fucked up stuff, and balance in the games is important. Dunno about you, but give me unbalanced pile of shit, whether it's single or multi player game, and I lose interest the moment game is unbelievable easy/hard, because nobody at the studio cared about balancing stuff. I started my modding career with balancing unbalanced games, and some of my mods were "top mod of the month" on Nexus, so I guess that some people care about balance as well.
There can be great or awful RNG, of course, but majority of devs take short way and make bad RNGm believing that once they have system generating their world it will solve all world's problems. The RNG potential is limitless, it's all about how much time you can spend on improving it. If I was to mention one game with well done RNG, it would be Rimworld. And game author is a damn genius.
Thanks for the wall of text, reading you is actually refreshing
c4138332 It's not really my thing, thus it's not currently planned, but if there's a demand from my patrons, I'll add it.
edgartheslayer Hey, while you are not wrong, game got renamed to Unaware in The City, dev "studio" to Mr. Unaware Studios and have new team members. Also, it will be uploaded in a different F95 thread. So it's something like a soft remake or something? Not 100% sure how to call it. But yeah, game content and events stay 99% the same. And for changing changelog it's too late already, while I'm getting closer to the release. Nevertheless, thanks a lot!
JustLittleTinyMe Only female main character. Adding male would be like making a 2nd game.
Chris2041 Not yet, but they have high priority of being added next.
AwfulArchdemon No clue about F95, since I'm not the uploader, but you can try downloading them from my
I'm not trying to re-create our real world with all our fucked up stuff, and balance in the games is important. Dunno about you, but give me unbalanced pile of shit, whether it's single or multi player game, and I lose interest the moment game is unbelievable easy/hard, because nobody at the studio cared about balancing stuff. I started my modding career with balancing unbalanced games, and some of my mods were "top mod of the month" on Nexus, so I guess that some people care about balance as well.
There can be great or awful RNG, of course, but majority of devs take short way and make bad RNGm believing that once they have system generating their world it will solve all world's problems. The RNG potential is limitless, it's all about how much time you can spend on improving it. If I was to mention one game with well done RNG, it would be Rimworld. And game author is a damn genius.
Thanks for the wall of text, reading you is actually refreshing
c4138332 It's not really my thing, thus it's not currently planned, but if there's a demand from my patrons, I'll add it.
edgartheslayer Hey, while you are not wrong, game got renamed to Unaware in The City, dev "studio" to Mr. Unaware Studios and have new team members. Also, it will be uploaded in a different F95 thread. So it's something like a soft remake or something? Not 100% sure how to call it. But yeah, game content and events stay 99% the same. And for changing changelog it's too late already, while I'm getting closer to the release. Nevertheless, thanks a lot!
JustLittleTinyMe Only female main character. Adding male would be like making a 2nd game.
Chris2041 Not yet, but they have high priority of being added next.
AwfulArchdemon No clue about F95, since I'm not the uploader, but you can try downloading them from my
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- Apr 19, 2020
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Thanks. Worked no prob. Not sure what's up with the f95 upload.
Also not sure why every game still has a NOPY link...
The fact you think it limits you and has the issues you listed above rather than simply makes your life easier tells me everything.Diconica Regarding automation you mentioned, it can dumb down the game concept, just like the RNG. In the trait example, if we manually decide which traits to lock/leave, we have much more freedom & creativity vs automated "lock everything with LW stat" etc. If you are going for simple system, sure, automation will be superior, but I'll never agree that in every single aspect automation will be superior over the manual work.
I'm not trying to re-create our real world with all our fucked up stuff, and balance in the games is important. Dunno about you, but give me unbalanced pile of shit, whether it's single or multi player game, and I lose interest the moment game is unbelievable easy/hard, because nobody at the studio cared about balancing stuff. I started my modding career with balancing unbalanced games, and some of my mods were "top mod of the month" on Nexus, so I guess that some people care about balance as well.
There can be great or awful RNG, of course, but majority of devs take short way and make bad RNGm believing that once they have system generating their world it will solve all world's problems. The RNG potential is limitless, it's all about how much time you can spend on improving it. If I was to mention one game with well done RNG, it would be Rimworld. And game author is a damn genius.
Thanks for the wall of text, reading you is actually refreshing
You have never used or worked with such a system of any kind.
There is nothing in the system that prevents making custom characters. In fact it makes that job easier. A lot fucking easier.
There is nothing in it that prevents you from balancing the game the way you want. Again it makes it easier.
You are still holding on to the idea this is automation using RNG to make everything. WRONG.
I explained this to you in the last post, which you clearly didn't read. The second line in it, " I'm not talking the type of automation such as using RNG to develop stuff. "
Maybe you should stop making stupid assumptions and try and learn something.
You worked on a few mods. ROFL.
So have I. However, if you asked someone like John Carmack or Michael Abrash if they know who I am, you would find out they do. Look them up if you don't know who they are.
You can also find me on sites like flipcode.com because I started programming at 15. I am now 50+. That site is where people like those aforementioned and myself would post articles and answer questions helping people like you learn game development.
I've been working in the game industry for decades. I've also worked in the industrial world during that same time with real world system that people's lives actually rely on.
You want to act like you are all that.
But given you don't even understand what I am talking about it shows how lacking in experience and knowledge you are.
Diconica Looks like the life was really harsh on you. Take care.
- Jan 14, 2022
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Why is someone with your experience and knowledge spending his time on this forum? Sounds a bit sussy-wossy if you ask me. But I know nothing.