saynotoNTR

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Mar 17, 2021
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Improvement is not what is at stake here for a simple reason : the story can't improve. Or rather, the first step to improvement is rebuilding. Because the premium version's prologue showed us too many flaws storywise, if this game keeps on growing, it will crumble at some point.
Do you think he will redo the entire DEMO? Dude, if Waifston announces that the next update is a DEMO remake people will go crazy. I would understand it without a problem, but you know how people are out of patience when it comes to Waifston.
 
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Do you think he will redo the entire DEMO? Dude, if Waifston announces that the next update is a DEMO remake people will go crazy. I would understand it without a problem, but you know how people are out of patience when it comes to Waifston.
I think this change can be made from little things.
It is made of so little things that can be resolved from dialogues first.
All I wanted to say is, Waifston did most of the work rendering everything he had to. All he has to change are dialogues and minor tweaks. In my opinion.
 
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DA22

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Jan 10, 2018
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You know I disagree, since some of the problems are with the basic background of the characters it will take more as a few tweaks and story changes to start making sense and to bring some characters back into territory where you can turn them around with good writing from hated chars into chars you can love and want a relation with as MC which is the goal of a harem after all within the story. Let alone bring back Alice to a char you want to save instead of let her stew in her own juices, as a player which goes against the goals of game.

It also needs remake of MC into someone you can relate to as just feel pity for and it is believable he will grow up some instead of from having to go from an 8 yo mentally into an adult even with help of a mentor with all the implications that him being an 8yo mentally at 20 yo has on all those milfs (yeah to an extent it hits all that so called cared for him) around him that so called loved him but were powerless, unwilling or unknowing to help him last 10 years so he needs a mentor now to even be able to grow up some. :p This could possibly work when Mc would enter a completely new place with characters he had not known before and had gone to college and you dropped all old girls as Li's for ever, though even then he has to come back from unbelievable far back, but with the same people who were there while he got in that situation it has some big problems for those chars around him by implication of their actions or inactions in a story about deeper characters and believabillity and a split between opinion MC on those characters and that of the player that demands ignoring an incredible amount of disbelieve on the part of the player.

Saving those characters around him that so called cared for him also means you will have to redo major part Sofia storyline and so on and letting it run on for years and years. It is not just a tweak, making an excuse or such to make it somewhat believable, unless you want a dark revenge harem where MC exploits guilt, negativity and punishes people for fact they were at best uncaring or even evil in reality to him whatever they say, cry or hug him to death now instead of a loving harem game where it is MC's prior relation with them that should make them fall for him in a loving way and him for them. That last just falls flat on its face now with the background as set, since you have not setup those relations as basically loving and caring in past in a way that is even somewhat believable after how you setup MC at minus 200 for a 20 yo and the reasons for at least part of his problems. Their inactions to really help MC in any way over all those years tells you something different as a player, whatever they say now. It just takes too much to redeem those chars as is and make them believable loving harem participants from player perspective as they are portrayed now without changing the background of the story and characters, especially MC.
 
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saynotoNTR

Active Member
Mar 17, 2021
840
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You know I disagree, since some of the problems are with the basic background of the characters it will take more as a few tweaks and story changes to start making sense and to bring some characters back into territory where you can turn them around with good writing from hated chars into chars you can love and want a relation with which is the goal of a harem after all within the story. Let alone bring back Alice to a char you want to save instead of let her stew in her own juices, as a player which goes against the goals of game.

It also needs remake of MC into someone you can relate to as just feel pity for and it is believable he will grow up some instead of from having to go from an 8 yo mentally into an adult even with help of a mentor with all the implications that him being an 8yo mentally at 20 yo has on all those milfs (yeah to an extent it hits all that so called cared for him) around him that so called loved him but were powerless or unknowing to help him last 10 years. :p

Saving those characters around him that so called cared for him also means you will have to redo major part Sofia storyline and so on. It is not just a tweak, making an excuse or such, unless you want a dark revenge harem where MC exploits guilt, negativity and punishes people for fact they were at best uncaring or even evil in reality to him whatever they say, cry or hug him to death instead of a loving harem game.
I already noticed that someone will leave disappointed with the coming of the next update. In addition to 'ChangeLog', Waifston should do an 'Update Notes'. Citing all changes made before releasing the game. So people will already know the current situation and will not have to play the update just to be even more frustrated. Much of the hate that this game receives is due to the fact that Waifston is not as clear with the community as it should be.
 
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DA22

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I already noticed that someone will leave disappointed with the coming of the next update. In addition to 'ChangeLog', Waifston should do an 'Update Notes'. Citing all changes made before releasing the game. So people will already know the current situation and will not have to play the update just to be even more frustrated. Much of the hate that this game receives is due to the fact that Waifston is not as clear with the community as it should be.
Yeah it is his choice as a dev to do as he wishes with the disadvantages each choice would have for him, since it is his game. People will make the choice they will wish to based on his choice, that does not make it any less his to choose though. :) Just for me I would be incredibly surprised if he could turn around the premium version without some serious tweaks and partly going back to storyboard from start as is for me for the reasons I set out or say it will indeed be a dark, corrupt revenge filled harem game about breaking the girls instead of loving them and if he continues it as is might have a look at the thread in a year to see what people think then about the game. :)
 
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saynotoNTR

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Mar 17, 2021
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Just for me I would be incredibly surprised if he could turn around the premium version without some serious tweaks
In my opinion, Sofia's situation is the only thing that will not be possible to recover. I don't care much about her, she was always the character I hated the most (even in the old version). But my heart is with those who are Sofia's fans.
 

DA22

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In my opinion, Sofia's situation is the only thing that will not be possible to recover. I don't care much about her, she was always the character I hated the most (even in the old version). But my heart is with those who are Sofia's fans.
Well mom and Elena are also not recoverable as are for me, just as much and depending on how rest of story goes same goes for the other main females until now even if maybe those other main females might be slightly less equally responsible as Sofia for how MC turned out. More chance you recover aunt as Alice for me at the moment. :)
 

saynotoNTR

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Mar 17, 2021
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More chance you recover aunt as Alice for me at the moment.
Dude, thank you so much for giving your feedback. I didn't think I would find someone who was more unsatisfied than I was. I'm feeling so much better now. :KEK: :KEK: :KEK: My frustration was only with Elena, but you are frustrated with Elena, Sofia and even with Alice. I hope the next updates will be more enjoyable for you, homie.
 

DA22

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Dude, thank you so much for giving your feedback. I didn't think I would find someone who was more unsatisfied than I was. I'm feeling so much better now. :KEK: :KEK: :KEK: My frustration was only with Elena, but you are frustrated with Elena, Sofia and even with Alice. I hope the next updates will be more enjoyable for you, homie.
Unlikely since recovering that would be loads of work for dev and entail going back to stage one on game. :) Yeah and to go to that from a game where I liked all of them originally, quite a turn around accomplished by Waifston. :p :ROFLMAO:

Well I am even more disappointed in Alice even as elena, I expect a bit more from a loving mother when comes to her son as from a teacher and Alice has none of the characteristics of a loving mom in her actions beyond just words and empty gestures. :rolleyes: Also having no problems moving away from that town and her son who is in deep shit and leave him to get out of that himself for her own selfish reasons while not being able to do so with her son when he was bullied to protect him when he needed that if she had no other options to stop that, which is doubtful for a strong and feared woman she is supposed to be in the first place ....
 
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Well mom and Elena are also not recoverable as are for me, just as much and depending on how rest of story goes same goes for the other main females until now even if maybe those other main females might be slightly less equally responsible as Sofia for how MC turned out. More chance you recover aunt as Alice for me at the moment. :)
I'm fine with the different scenarios of the current game : the recommendation refusal, the family conflict, even the fake date thing. Simply change the modality of why it happens and how it happens in my opinion.
 
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DA22

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I'm fine with the different scenarios of the current game : the recommendation refusal, the family conflict, even the fake date thing. Simply change the modality of why it happens and how it happens in my opinion.
Well as I explained why, I would be not since who and what for mess MC is, is the responsibility as well of all those he should love and get in a loving relationship with and especially Elena and Alice (Sofia at least you could give benefit she was a child as well and did not like MC anyway if you really want and did not know what she did), that just does not work with how they have been setup and is part of the reason why game feels so depressive now.
 
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Well as I explained why, I would be not since who and what for mess MC is, is the responsibility as well of all those he should love and get in a loving relationship with and especially Elena and Alice (Sofia at least you could give benefit she was a child as well and did not like MC anyway if you really want and did not know what she did), that just does not work with how they have been setup and is the reason why game feels so depressive now.
I actually don't understand half of the things you said. But you just said it : the issue is the setup, not the scenario's idea. Just change the setup.
 
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DA22

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I actually don't understand half of the things you said. But you just said it : the issue is the setup, not the scenario's idea. Just change the setup.
Well I could make another wall of text about it, but the way MC is now (beyond looking like a 14 yo which would be genes) is within game universe due to what happened to him in the past years which is pretty negative and happened over years and years.

Now in my mind really loving and caring adults have an obligation to protect and look after kids around them. Especially if they are their teachers and parents and saying they noticed nothing is not really believable either for something that happened over years unless really gave that person no attention at all above just some token one. Elena and Alice both failed that without any good or forgivable reason and in both their cases there can not really be a good one with what happened and time it happened over in this setup. It makes them look very very bad indeed instead of loveable, even without Elena also throwing MC under the bus for a shitty reason in a shitty way, while she had a reasonable reason with him not being ready even if that reason was partly her fault as his teacher that did not deal with the problem that made it quite reasonable MC missed a lot of classes, since school was not a safe place for him as was.

That goes for all of the adults that say they cared about him all those years though and even beyond other problems in chars that do not make them loveable and game depressing with all that happened or set them way too far back from where they should be to be believable chars for a loving harem.

Now the moving away part. She can do that now for selfish reasons, knowing how MC is due to her inaction all those years and leaving him to deal with that on his own, but she never had the idea to take away MC from his situation and move away from there and put him in other school when he needed it. It only even strengthens that negative impression about her from earlier years and confirms it in a way.

Now a setup where Alice would have moved away with MC earlier due to what happened (and she found no other way to stop it on advice of Elena and other Milf friends) and they come back or Mc comes back 5 years later, more adult and partly having dealt with what happened in past already emotionally might work though giving him a reason to voluntarily go back might be an problem. Maybe something like health problems granny that needs Alice there and then let him reconnect to all those milfs, but as the setup and chars are right now it does not work really for me.

It would still need some toning down on most chars as well so they are not all just walking drama and/or trouble instead of people. Like Alice does not also needs a gambling addiction with all that implies on top of everything else and the police rookie does not need to act like a complete asshole to MC without her also having been given a reasonable reason for that from the get go. :)
 
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Waifston

i am just man, ok?
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Jul 13, 2019
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imo, both plots were kinda bad, but the new one flows a tiny bit better? not that im expecting Nier Automata's level of complexity on plot, but new one at least flows better, the old one was kinda on the nose

renders are looking a bit better or polished in the new one, or maybe its my imagination, but it looks like it

what really is TERRIBLE about the remake, is that despite a lot of content already "existing" (on the original one), remake basically makes use of nothing

i know a remake means, well, a remake, but its quite boring to going back to waiting a billion updates to see a tit

this is made worse by the "branching", i personally (maybe its awesome for other people) hate branching, it forces you to have a billion saves and contantly loading back and fast forwarding to see a different scene, on top of slowing the dev proccess cuz gotta put something in for "every route"
After a break, I got back to my game, played it from a different point of view. What I can say is that the plot is not bad. I have zero clues what it got so much negativity. 1 star reviews? Horrible MC? Shitty plot? This is all so strange to me. Maybe I'm just a dumb writer who can't see his horrible writing. Who knows.
 

Daddums

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After a break, I got back to my game, played it from a different point of view. What I can say is that the plot is not bad. I have zero clues what it got so much negativity. 1 star reviews? Horrible MC? Shitty plot? This is all so strange to me. Maybe I'm just a dumb writer who can't see his horrible writing. Who knows.
We have told you exactly what is wrong with it. I went through a detailed explanation of my problems with your narrative in an effort to help you. The fact you're so dismissive of any of that is appalling.

This is why you fail.
 
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Waifston

i am just man, ok?
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What fillers did you mention in your review? Character profile screen? This screen created to explain the character's backstory, motivation, and goals + some extra spicy details. It's not filled with dumb info like... what color does this girl like or what food she likes to eat! None of that.
Sandbox? It's 0.2v only, the next update is about to bring all the sandbox elements from the original game.
 
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Xill

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Jan 10, 2018
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After a break, I got back to my game, played it from a different point of view. What I can say is that the plot is not bad. I have zero clues what it got so much negativity. 1 star reviews? Horrible MC? Shitty plot? This is all so strange to me. Maybe I'm just a dumb writer who can't see his horrible writing. Who knows.
Ok so, how about this? People say they don't like the writing of the Premium Edition yeah? But they prefer the writing of the old one. Play through that, look at the differences and you'll understand what the new version needs in terms of writing so people can start liking it.
 

Waifston

i am just man, ok?
Game Developer
Jul 13, 2019
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We have told you exactly what is wrong with it. I went through a detailed explanation of my problems with your narrative in an effort to help you. The fact you're so dismissive of any of that is appalling.

This is why you fail.
As I said earlier, I read every comment and taking notes. I'm improving things. It's just in my head I can't solve this puzzle of "why there is so much negativity". You folks give feedback as negative as if I destroyed the whole game. Butchered every damn character. Created a buggy mess with no story.
My intention was only to improve the game, make a more logical story, give characters more clear goals, improve game mechanics, improve renders with animations.
 

Xill

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Jan 10, 2018
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Butchered every damn character.
Well from the sounds of it, you did that with Elena atleast. People hate her. And they seem to dislike the MC too. And considering how vital to the story the MC is (obviously since people like to insert themselves) and the fact that Elena had tons of fans, you can see why people are upset.
 

Daddums

Member
Oct 26, 2019
292
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As I said earlier, I read every comment and taking notes. I'm improving things. It's just in my head I can't solve this puzzle of "why there is so much negativity". You folks give feedback as negative as if I destroyed the whole game. Butchered every damn character. Created a buggy mess with no story.
My intention was only to improve the game, make a more logical story, give characters more clear goals, improve game mechanics, improve renders with animations.
Intentions don't always lead to positive results. This was not a positive result.

You did butcher the characters. You butchered at least three of them. I'd downright call it a character assassination. The thing is that we pointed out how to fix them. You keep acting like there's nothing wrong when you play the game, though, that's the insulting thing about all of this. It makes you sound like you don't care.

A lot of people have a hard time understanding why their work isn't adequate enough. That's not something easy to overcome. However, you have a lot of people trying to tell you how to take the characters to where you want to take them. Remember when I told you why people didn't like you changing the size or attitude of characters in the Christmas demo? That they've come to expect them to be a certain way and even grown attached to them? That's where a lot of negativity is coming from, but! There's also a lot of dissonance going on in the game for even new players and you've made characters outright unlikable. You have characters saying they feel X, but they're doing Y. Elena chief among them is the best example of this. She says she feels like family and says she treats you like a son, but she stabs you in the back like it's some fucking Yakuza family and she sensed weakness. That's a dissonance unless you mean to portray her as a villain or some kind of sociopath. At which point she's a manipulative bitch and nobody likes those unless we get to break them and enslave them.

You want to make an improved story, but what's an improvement? Creating conflict just for the sake of it? Because that's what you're doing in the game. Nothing is fluid, nothing is transitioning smoothly and nothing makes sense regarding character motivation. Why are the characters doing what they're doing and how do you show that to the player without telling them outright? You need to give ample reason for their actions, even if you don't show it right off yet, but you can't expect people to like them still or force them to forgive them through the MC -- which he does because he's a wimp and a simp so far. These two characteristics... a trophy husband does not make. Maybe an ATM machine, but he's the one trying to put a ring on one of those.

The story is not an improvement. It's full of the same storytelling flaws the old game had, the difference was you could ignore those flaws because it was a goofy and laid back game. It was for fun. You're adding a bunch of dark shit into the game and that's not gonna make it easy to ignore the flaws, it actually makes it more difficult.
 
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