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PhazeUFO

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Sep 28, 2021
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I didn't use reactions because spells one shot enemies that wouldn't auto murder you anyways, as would auto attacks really you just took 1 ping damage.
Shield spam was just the most efficient use of your mp as buff spell pre heat, where now well....

If you want people using reactions, you'd pretty much need to completely overhaul the enemy hp and player mp economies at least.
Ice wall was nice because you always took at least one damage regardless of your defense if I recall. Ice wall negated all damage, so it was better to just have enough damage to kill the enemy and in one shot and space your ice wall. Using the rest of the skills would have required you having more defense then their attack actually stop all damage from taking place. It was a waste to use spells to attack when your normal attack did the same, but saved points for ice wall. I would say a bit more would need some overhauling he wants different strats.
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Mommysbuttslut

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Feb 19, 2021
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Ice wall was nice because you always took at least one damage regardless of your defense if I recall. Ice wall negated all damage, so it was better to just have enough damage to kill the enemy and in one shot and space your ice wall. Using the rest of the skills would have required you having more defense then their attack actually stop all damage from taking place. It was a waste to use spells to attack when your normal attack did the same, but saved points for ice wall. I would say a bit more would need some overhauling he wants different strats.
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You're about right but atm physical attacks are so brutally overpowered at the top end that spells fizzle out as soon as you clear the research board none of them are useful anymore. They're only good for midgame to squeeze a few more kills out after you run out of health atm. I'm running floor quadrillion and I can kill enemies in 1-4 turns depending on RNG and their affixes. When I get the infinite MP glitch I can spend 5 minutes with an autoclicker spamming comet and I won't even do 1% of the damage a single physical attack does. The new evasion system is probably worse than the old ice wall meta and the new research perks completely and utterly break the dungeon to absurdity.
 
Mar 24, 2019
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View attachment 3126628 resource farming is bust after this update.unlock custom floor at dungeon in research and bomb in militia and go to floor 2147483647 and just bomb enemy and try to open a chest then you get unlimited resource.also guild expedition is based on your highest floor so if you do this once the rest can just obtain from expedition.
Dev actually mentioned this strat themselves, it's an intended reward for unlocking the highest upgrade in the research tree.

Also something I noticed: Guild actually DOESN'T scale with your top floor it scales with your CURRENT floor, or rather-

Expeditions scale with the highest floor yes-

But guild rewards that you get from ranking up only scale with your current floor-

I had one guild rank up where I got a shit load of gold from bombing some enemies to try out what dev said, but when I went back to start from a lower dungeon level so I could fight normally, the guild rank up reward reflected that.

So yeah, expeditions are based on your max, but guild rank is based on your last recorded floor, so there's that.
 

TwistedScarlett60

Will lewd cute girls for cash
Game Developer
Sep 13, 2019
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Misc. Thoughts:
  1. Thanks for all the feedback so far!
  2. A lot of people here are reaching the logical end of UtU's gameplay. Once you've gotten all the upgrades and broken the dungeon, you've essentially finished the dungeon. Without radically changing how the game works, I don't know how to give it more or infinite replay value. A lot of other clicker games have a reset feature that gives you bonuses, but that doesn't seem like it'd fit UtU at all because it's not a game designed to artificially limit your progress in a way that forces you to restart. That said, more updates to the dungeon are planned, but if you've already finished everything, new biomes, systems, and spells probably won't do much for you.
  3. I think I'll experiment with multiplying the HP values by say, x50, and make enemies do about x10 damage. Defence will also naturally have to be scaled up too. This'll make it it feels like there's a back and forth instead of a system of simply taking 1 damage per hit or or losing all your hp in a single hit. There's also the consideration of whether enemies should attack while you're casting magic, it would certainly balance the game a lot at this point, but the damage numbers and some spell effects will have to be finely tuned to make it work.
I posted this earlier in the month sorry if it's spam just interested in an answer.
There are four scenes where you can choose to be a lot more dominant, at the cost of them not being completely consensual. This isn't something that was maintained because it realistically didn't work with every character. After all, how can you force someone that's completely consenting?

The game mechanics are really coming together now and the new scenes where great, still kinda thrown off by that comment about preparing for the final battle, is this intended to be a shorter game than most?
The game is already the length of a medium sized novel, and I have 6 more updates planned with just as many lewd scenes. The final battle will take about 36 in-game days to become accessible, but you'll only be able to start it once you've completed every maid's route. On the flip side, there will be less than 36 total hangouts between the five main maids, so it balances out.

I've only just started the game but I have to ask already, what is that music in the intro from? It sounds like something from Suikoden to me but I'm not 100% sure. I'll admit I often fast forward most intro's as far too many are long winded and ultimately unimportant but the music during this one captured my interest so bravo there at least.
It's an unreleased track by Sewerslvt called "Ryona"

will there be future scene with Balethorn ??
Yeah, she'll getting her hangout and scene in version 1.1.
 
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Mar 24, 2019
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I didn't use reactions because spells one shot enemies that wouldn't auto murder you anyways, as would auto attacks really you just took 1 ping damage.
Shield spam was just the most efficient use of your mp as buff spell pre heat, where now well....

If you want people using reactions, you'd pretty much need to completely overhaul the enemy hp and player mp economies at least.
I will say, due to the turn based style of the game mixed with the highly limited durability of the MC, there are just some playstyles which are blatantly not as efficient as others.

I only started messing around with spell reactions when I was maxed level in everything and realistically would never run out of mana due to all the options I had of refilling it.

If I were to rank the character's spells and attacks they'd be in this order-

S Rank: Seraphina
A Rank: Emi
B Rank: Hazel and Ophelia.
C Rank: MC's spell.
D Rank: Mirabelle
F Rank: Basic attack

Comet is by far the strongest and easiest to snowball with, because the attack scaling from heat is genuinely insane, making whoever gets the first attack have advantage, which is always the player.

Emi's attack is the new and improved Ice Wall for all intents and purposes, instead of absorbing damage with temporary HP though, you just never get hit in the first place...which is absolutely as ridiculous as it sounds, if enhanced with Pain in the same turn, it easily goes from A rank to S rank due an infinite evade glitch that happens.

Hazel and Ophelia are in awkward positions in terms of the current meta, they're clearly intended to be spells meant to essentially enhance the normal basic attack as their primary effects which are DoT and extra damage respectively, are effectively just the same things but with different coats of paint, because the most effective strategy is unironically to never advance past turn 1 in a fight, and never get hit. As such, with the current tactics that are encouraged, they're essentially just weaker versions of Comet, that cost the same amount or more to cast.

The MC is relegated to...a very strange niche, in that you'd only ever use Pain in a fight you already know that you're going to win, and you have no problem tossing MP away for the style points, the bonus damage is nice and it has the best reactions in the game, but it's the only spell in the game that deals no damage, which...both fits and doesn't, if anything it feels like it should work in a completely different way than any other spell, like being a non-lethal or instant stunning option that would allow for an entirely unique gameplay style, the description just doesn't seem to match the mechanics with this to me, but it's serviceable for what it does...if you have twice as much MP than you'll ever need.

Mirabelle was, honestly slaughtered from being nerfed, defense went from being the most important stat to the least important stat in a single update, and she's been completely replaced by Emi as the team tank, because Emi can now do everything she could do, but now better, and more, and defense simply...doesn't scale well at all? I care less about my defense than my crit chance...and I never even realize it when I crit something because the fight is over in one hit anyway. The temp HP was actually the most balanced meta I could think of since you could survive high heats for a while, but you weren't immortal-

And honestly this is all just a symptom of the core issue-

Basic attack is suicide on high heat with no ice wall shields and no evasions-

In effect the balance is thrown off because your first line of offense, is the last thing you resort to, because time only moves when you basic attack-

And time stop is a broken power both in anime and in hentai. :ROFLMAO:

Basic attack isn't worth the risk unless you're literally desperate for MP with no upgrades, or if there's not a mana refill event in sight. Using basic attack is the ONLY WAY you can get hit in this game, which makes is the most punishing thing to use in the entire game-

Meaning people, as shown by everyone talking about magic-

Just don't use it.

Like I said before, if this is intended gameplay, a lot of it fits with the narrative and themes, we're not a normal hero, so we don't play like one, that may not be for everyone-

I see this game as a resource manager and Visual Novel with a turn based RPG coat of paint for flavor. The exact opposite to the dev's last game which was 90% classic turn-based RPG with 10% being resource management.

I do think that a lot of problems would be fixed by having spells advance a turn, but also cause just as many problems, as then there'd potentially be even less incentive for trying to create spell reactions.

Dev literally posted right as I'm typing this and I gotta say: I do like the idea of potentially increasing the scaling of health/defense, but only if it makes sense. Personally, while the current gameplay is far from traditional, I think it fits in a certain way, since, for all intents and purposes-

This isn't an RPG, it's a strategy game that looks like an RPG. Where you're essentially a commander who is directing the teammates you have.

If I were to suggest a middle ground-

Maybe make it so that turn does advance with spells, but lean more towards unique effects rather than various forms of burst damage, tweak the reaction effects so that each fight is a battle of attrition, and the more statuses you can inflict on your opponents, the more you can skew the battle in your favor.

I personally like the idea of each type having unique utilities and statuses-

But I'm gonna cut this here and post my suggestions in another post because this is already getting too long.
 
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Mar 24, 2019
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Here's my proposed suggestion of changes for each character and each reaction. None of these are necessarily must haves, but they're essentially spit balling ideas for what the game could play like to encourage more use of reactions in new meta after spells advance through turns.

Ophelia: Take the crit chance gained from Emi's water and put it on Ophelia's lightning, have it so that every consecutive strike from her lightning has a higher chance to crit than the last, and give her a paralyze effect similar to Mirabelle's freeze upgrade, where if she crits, she applies a paralysis status effect, making her a big risk and big investment where her spell power ramps up as turns progress with it active. This idea makes it so that Ophelia's attack isn't just regulated to being "damage over time". This matches the vibe of her character better as being a magical heavy hitter with a turbulent personality as well as revamps her gameplay style.

Emi: Keep Evasion as the main effect for her spell, it fits perfectly for her, make it so that her water is literally an element designed to flow with versatility and creativity into every other element, essentially making her the set up for a lot of the best elemental reactions.

Mirabelle: We're gonna roll with the idea that every spell and character is tied to a certain stat for the party, in keeping with that theme, Mirabelle will obviously still be tied to Defense, with each cast of ice wall on it's own directly scaling up defense, we keep the freezing effect obviously, and the only thing I would really change would be her reactions with other spells which I'll get to in a bit.

Hazel: The sparky bisexual queen is gonna get her dues. I propose that after casting fire, any form of attack, magical or non-magical, will have an increased Attack modifier, either multiplied, or directly added to their existing modifier, making her be both a powerful damage dealer, and the party's dedicated Attack buff, similar to how Mirabelle would buff Defense, and Ophelia and Emi buff Evade and Crit chance. She'll increase damage dealt by other spells and basic attacks for as long as she's active, and honestly? I think it makes more sense that SHE has the damage over time effects, inflicting a burn status on enemies while active after her initial attack, making her, if not the best damage dealer, the most CONSISTENT damage dealer the party has to offer.

Seraphina: Potentially controversial, but this is one that I'm honestly gonna change the least but also...the most in a weird way? I say we keep Comet more or less unchanged in it's current version, but with two main tweaks: Make it react to other spells indirectly, and increase the cost of it. Now hear me out, I would say we lean into the spell's upgrade that decreases it's cost for each reaction, but we make it so that it would be a centerpiece that's built up to rather than an ability that's easily spammed. We set the cost of it to 6MP, and then for every unique reaction: We decrease the cost by however many unique elements were used and add the reaction's effect and elements to the charged up Comet. Meaning if spammed, you lose 6MP on an uncharged comet, but at max it, would cost 0MP to cast, and have the elements and effects of every single spell and reaction, but ONLY after multiple rounds of chaining reactions off each other, and it would reset back to physical element and 6MP after it's cast, returning it to base. Making it the best burst damage, and the best reaction, but only if it's properly set up first.

MC: Pain is fine in concept but it needs to synergize properly with other elements, make it double the effect of any source of damage and any effect for as long as it stays active.

Reactions: I'm gonna run through these fast.

Emi+Ophelia: It would essentially be the ability Emi has now, buffing both crit and evade chance, but with the tweak that this reaction would become a guaranteed crit, and paralyze which would be justified as it's unlikely anyone is gonna get hit by lightning while soaking in a bath tub and be moving any time soon-

Emi+Mirabelle: Here's a controversial one, keep the guaranteed freeze status effect, but with a twist...give the player the temporary HP like the old ice wall, the fact that it'd come from a reaction means it wouldn't be as spamable, because you need two spells to get it instead of just one, plus you could justify it, flavor it as if Emi and Mirabelle are doing a combo defensive attack where they're encasing the enemy in ice to immobilize them, while giving the MC a set of ice armor, it'd fit perfectly with them both being the dedicated defensive options of the party, ice armor would be the perfect defense.

Emi+Hazel: The steam explosion isn't a bad effect in concept, but I would make a small tweak to it, have it either grant more evasion or decrease the enemy's accuracy, like you're making a cloud of mist, the idea being that this would be the counter to sniper enemies to make evasion relevant against them again, you could also add a weak DoT effect to this reaction that would last as long as the blinding effect does, as the enemy is boiled and blinded in a hot haze, making it harder for them to attack, and more vulnerable to follow up.

Emi+MC: Simply put, the evade chance buff gained is increased, the duration of her water magic is increased, and the next spell to react with Emi's water triggers a reaction that's twice as intense due to enemies being twice as sensitive.

Ophelia+Mirabelle: Small chance to inflict either paralysis or freeze beyond the limit of once per enemy? I'll be honest, this is the only one I'm struggling with so far. But they both have similar statuses, so...maybe something where if it crits it stuns enemies for twice as many turns? That's the best I got off the top of my head, but I really want every combination of spells to have a reaction.

Ophelia+Hazel: The ultimate damage duo, make them unleash hellish fury as fire and lightning merge into a chaotic plasma that fuse to enemies like napalm, creating a powerful DoT effect that minicrits on each subsequent turn while the status is active.

Ophelia+MC: Increases crit chance buff and crit damage while active, also doubles intensity of the next reaction triggered.

Mirabelle+Hazel: Polar opposites, grant attack up and defense up, as a massive fire ball causes ice to not melt, but instead shatter, dealing massive burst damage, making this the only reaction that's just a straight up burst of raw, contradictory power, like an explosion with shrapnel.

Mirabelle+MC: Increase the potency of the defense up, as well as the intensity of the next reaction off of Mirabelle's ice.

Hazel+MC: Increase attack up, as well increased bonus damage, with increased potency on follow up reactions.

Seraphina: I didn't make any individual reactions for her, because the idea behind my concept of a revamped comet is that essentially, comet ITSELF, WOULD become a sort of...ultimate reaction ability, where it becomes a massive charged up team attack that only gets stronger and more available as you use your other team and party members in sync with each other. Of course you could use it out the box for 6MP and still do massive burst damage, but the issue with comet as is, is that it's too spammable and powerful for honestly not much build up.

The description of it in the game is like Seraphina is summoning a goddamn meteor in doors, I figured this way of implementing it as a team trump card that only gets better and easier to use the more you build it up would be a good way of tying everything together, with it taking on the effects, statuses, and buffs of all the spells that get casted before it, until you're essentially hitting your enemy with a whole ass mini planet that buffs your every ability and debuffs your enemy to the maximum extent, assuming they even survive that long-

It'd be fitting for Seraphina to be the strongest, but also to gather her strength from all the powerful students that she's taught, almost as if she's collecting and combining the power of all maids past and present to create a truly powerful trump card.

But yeah, those are my ideas, I don't know if any of them are any good, or feasible given how far along the game is, but that's how I would imagine things getting reworked to make gameplay as fun and interactive as possible when/if spells ever took a turn to cast.
 
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lizaardt

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Feb 25, 2018
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One again, did restart with a new save, and a damaging bug did try to interrupt my run!
Poor lily got downgraded to 11 def after surviving for a gritting 1367 heat and buying too much upgrades... (compared to her 5436 atk, it make her feel like a glass canon)

Mirabelle fan, don't cry, her time on the spotlight did end, but but let's not fear since we unloketh the wrath of Seraphina!
Maybe the change of the guidebook did wrong her? Elemental reaction? figuring which option to handle that fight? Nay! The comets shall pave the way!
... Which are arguably way more broken, and way less fun than the previous meta - but it did definitively stampeded through that glass-canon problem.

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And that was way to long again, (not) sorry!
(attached save: see bug)
 
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TwistedScarlett60

Will lewd cute girls for cash
Game Developer
Sep 13, 2019
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Lots of good discussion about the current state of the dungeon and its meta, however:

The game is almost completely changed:
HP is no longer all about single digits, it's now x50 larger. Enemy attack has been raised by x10 to compensate. This in turn drastically changes the way combat feels and changes how a lot of different stats interact. The game is no longer about trying to only take '1' chip damage per turn, making defence far a more dynamic and useful stat. It also immediately makes every resistance and defensive upgrade far more meaningful.
1701333146082.png
1701333203399.png

This also means Ice Wall is a lot more useful now, the +20% defense (the upgrades of which will be coming back in 0.6.x) will allow you to tank a lot more damage, but there's a catch!
1701333051989.png
1701333070141.png

Casting spells now advances the turn! You can no longer spam comet without the enemy retaliating. Furthermore, you can no longer cast spells if you're out of HP. In exchange for this change, enemies no longer deal damage on the turn they die. It remains to be seen whether enemies need to be given more HP to balance this out.

Oh, and the actual path in the dungeon is now a lot more dynamic! Swiftness potions are looking better than ever to catch those best events:
1701333004681.png


As you can imagine, with all these drastic changes, I want to refrain from making too many adjustments with the core systems until people have had a chance to see what it's like in this state.
 
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PhazeUFO

Well-Known Member
Sep 28, 2021
1,505
1,457
Lots of good discussion about the current state of the dungeon and its meta, however:

The game is almost completely changed:
HP is no longer all about single digits, it's now x50 larger. Enemy attack has been raised by x10 to compensate. This in turn drastically changes the way combat feels and changes how a lot of different stats interact. The game is no longer about trying to only take '1' chip damage per turn, making defence far a more dynamic and useful stat. It also immediately makes every resistance and defensive upgrade far more meaningful.
View attachment 3129280
View attachment 3129285

This also means Ice Wall is a lot more useful now, the +20% defense (the upgrades of which will be coming back in 0.6.x) will allow you to tank a lot more damage, but there's a catch!
View attachment 3129274
View attachment 3129276

Casting spells now advances the turn! You can no longer spam comet without the enemy retaliating. Furthermore, you can no longer cast spells if you're out of HP. In exchange for this change, enemies no longer deal damage on the turn they die. It remains to be seen whether enemies need to be given more HP to balance this out.

Oh, and the actual path in the dungeon is now a lot more dynamic! Swiftness potions are looking better than ever to catch those best events:
View attachment 3129271
Well, as I said it has been awhile since I tried an update. I am hoping those upgrades I made towards the cucking work out. :BootyTime:
 

FroyGK

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Jun 9, 2022
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Twisted, have you been in contact with mdf at all recently? I just noticed they deleted all of their work from their twitter and pixiv. Kinda surprised there isn't an F95 page for their work there was a ton of it. The only stuff they didn't delete is a completely different art style.
 
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