Personally I think for most people it mostly just comes down to whether you like the idea of the main character being cheated on or whether you like him to be the one doing the cheating. I think most people like being the one doing the cheating, not being the one who's being cheated on.
Views on Netorare
- Thread starter GottaLust
- Start date
- Oct 24, 2018
- 5,551
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And I talked about the facts of the event separate to the emotional impact. The thing happened, that's a fact; you're feelings about said fact make it no more or less true.
If my wife, who I'm utterly devoted too cheats me and leaves me for that person, I'm probably devastated and even suicidal; that's NTR. If my wife, who I give zero fucks about and only married for her money, cheats on me and then leaves me for that person, in the process violating the terms of the pre-nup I was forced to sign, letting me divorce her and get half of her money; that's NTR too, the fact that I'm happy about it is immaterial.
The poster I responded to was trying to make the arguement that if someone is happy about being cheated on (NTRd) then they weren't really cheated on (again, NTRd). To me, that makes no sense.
- Feb 22, 2019
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All of your responses are great! I'm starting to learn a lot more about the opinions of the community. Here's my takeaway:
- NTR as a solid definition is still debated. Maybe I should have made it a bit more clear.
- NTR (or the threat of it) can be implemented as a plot device. As a result, it is optional and therefore, you can like the threat of NTR and not actually like it itself. However, to like the threat of it is different from liking NTR. I'm asking a question of whether you like NTR, not plot devices.
- NTR causing distress to another person can vary. Most definitions will say it "typically" causes distress. Which means that the persons feelings towards the act of cheating doesn't matter, cheating is cheating. This means that NTR is infidelity itself and although mostly consists of a guilty relationship, does not inherently mean it is about one.
- NTR is a very sensitive topic. Clearly, several people have different views on it and a lot of people somewhat dislike the other side. Luckily, many people who like NTR dislike it in real life. It's a guilty pleasure that they'll keep to themselves.
- Lastly, people are very open about their views. I have a lot of responses to prove just that!
Thanks for the responses and hopefully, I can develop my understanding of NTR and the community's views on it as a whole.
- NTR as a solid definition is still debated. Maybe I should have made it a bit more clear.
- NTR (or the threat of it) can be implemented as a plot device. As a result, it is optional and therefore, you can like the threat of NTR and not actually like it itself. However, to like the threat of it is different from liking NTR. I'm asking a question of whether you like NTR, not plot devices.
- NTR causing distress to another person can vary. Most definitions will say it "typically" causes distress. Which means that the persons feelings towards the act of cheating doesn't matter, cheating is cheating. This means that NTR is infidelity itself and although mostly consists of a guilty relationship, does not inherently mean it is about one.
- NTR is a very sensitive topic. Clearly, several people have different views on it and a lot of people somewhat dislike the other side. Luckily, many people who like NTR dislike it in real life. It's a guilty pleasure that they'll keep to themselves.
- Lastly, people are very open about their views. I have a lot of responses to prove just that!
Thanks for the responses and hopefully, I can develop my understanding of NTR and the community's views on it as a whole.
I'm merely stating the overreaction of some people when it comes to ntr. There are gore, snuff, rape and pedophilia that are worse than NTR in general. Well if you think getting your love interest stolen is worse than these things I mentioned, I suggest you should get a therapy.
So featuring genocide, pandemic and world hunger in a visual novel can depress people? These can be used in the narrative of a story as long as it's not normalized and justified as "good or acceptable".
Sorry I can't take this statement seriously because of its sheer stupidity. Or maybe you're just trolling me. I sincerely hope it's the latter.
- Oct 4, 2018
- 802
- 1,136
My view on netorare is best summed up by the meme below -
I've even gone back and looked at the earliest mention or use of it in sex games and/or comics. It's been around for a while, actually. Quite a long time. And I apply the strict definition of it as best I can since it has several variations of it but the main points are pretty much 3 questions. But here's the problem - NONE of you will give the same answer to the same question. Then someone takes the false answer and runs with it then it spawns its own set of definitions. THAT is what is going on. Many of you are running with the wrong definition.
IMO, those scissors are way too big for you all to be running around with, pal.
I've even gone back and looked at the earliest mention or use of it in sex games and/or comics. It's been around for a while, actually. Quite a long time. And I apply the strict definition of it as best I can since it has several variations of it but the main points are pretty much 3 questions. But here's the problem - NONE of you will give the same answer to the same question. Then someone takes the false answer and runs with it then it spawns its own set of definitions. THAT is what is going on. Many of you are running with the wrong definition.
IMO, those scissors are way too big for you all to be running around with, pal.
NTR is also kind of hilarious.
Think about it. Your lease on your mum's cooch expired at least 2 decades ago. Yet you are still emotionally invested in it and will object to it going back up for sale in a buyer's market.
Some girl who you was never got around to asking the sticker price on? Somehow that still counts.
You get a test drive on a girl but never get around to saying you were serious? That counts.
Can you NTR the human race to extinction with giant squirrels? Sure.
A comedy. A divine comedy. A tragedy.
Think about it. Your lease on your mum's cooch expired at least 2 decades ago. Yet you are still emotionally invested in it and will object to it going back up for sale in a buyer's market.
Some girl who you was never got around to asking the sticker price on? Somehow that still counts.
You get a test drive on a girl but never get around to saying you were serious? That counts.
Can you NTR the human race to extinction with giant squirrels? Sure.
A comedy. A divine comedy. A tragedy.
Watching Japanese censored porn. Watching Japanese porn censored or uncensored, without muting it.
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- Feb 22, 2019
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What's the definition then? I'd like to know myself
(sorry if I sound sarcastic I'm genuinely curious)
netorare
or NTR [neh-tuh-rah-ray]
WHAT DOES NETORARE MEAN?
Netorare is a genre of anime, manga, or video game focused on infidelity. Commonly a subgenre of pornographic hentai anime, netorare storylines typically focus on the internal distress caused by one member in a relationship cheating on the other.
- Feb 20, 2018
- 2,287
- 6,411
To be fair, the guy you originally quoted was dead wrong... so your statement in this second response is still a little off...
Cuckholding and NTR are completely different things, they serve different purposes, and the only thing they have in common is the fact that the MC's partner is getting dicked...
Cuckholding is more of a "western" thing, its a fetish in which a married man or a boyfriend is perfectly fine with the idea of his LI fucking another dude, even in his presence. Chances are the dude is stroking his tiny PP watching the scene unfold as he "can" (doesnt have to) feel inferior to the "bull" that is breeding his LI... self-humiliation can play a part in this fetish.
NTR is a Japanese fetish in which the most important aspect is that the LI is emotionally hurting the MC, not just by cheating, but by degrading her loved one and mentioning how the new scumbag and the way he dicks her is the most important thing in her life forever more. This one doesnt have to be about stealing a wife/gf only, this one DOES include mothers and sisters... even if the MC isnt romantic or sexual with them... the MC's school bully can come to the house pretending to be the MC's friend when he isnt home, seduce a family member, fuck them STUPID (literally they loose braincells)... and then have them get caught by the MC talking shit about what a waste of space he is, and how they would toss them out on the street if the bully wants, as long as he keeps dicking them...
In this regard the guy who mentioned Netorase, that is more closely related to Cuckholding... in that the MC enjoys that garbage... Netorare means the MC hates the fucking shit out of it... again the "taste" of the player behind the MC is irrelevant, its about how the situations affects the MC... a dude that likes NTR is gonna find both of those scenarios "hot"... just like someone that despises the fetish is going to hate both of them...
Rarely you get the middle ground, like Thialf or myself... Me personally I can stand Netorase(cuck) if the MC is such a piece of shit I want better for his LI... NTR is harder for me to overcome, cause it rarely finds a "nice guy" stealing the girl from either an asshole or a loser... NTR is always some bigger asshole or "bad guy" stealing, with some of the stupidest writing imaginable...
My favorite example of why I dont really get into NTR arguments (in game threads, topics like this is fine) aside from thread bans and shit... is that I wont change my mind, just like I know I wont change the mind of those that disagree, so its a waste of time... Lets talk about Big Brother as a prime example... Max (the mc) is such a little shit... no arguments, you'd have to be a total self-insert maniac to think he's a decent dude... some people, especially the NTR-yay crowd think of Eric (the NTR rival in BB) as a sort of hero... this is utter BS !!!
Max is a little shit, thats been established... but Eric is fucking scum !! Max is pervy towards his family, and manipulates situations to get into their pants (except Kira who wants it)... that's his worse flaw... he never blackmails, he never rapes... Eric is a "hustler" a man that goes around seducing dumb women, and cheats them out of their homes and money before tossing them to the streets as hookers... I'm sorry whats likable about that piece of shit ?
You dont need to self insert to SEE which of these two males is worse...
Why does ntr need to be defined?
The people that don't like ntr dislike all genres of cuck porn.
The people that like ntr need specific definitions because they prefer a specific subgenre of cuck porn because the subgenre is different.
The people that don't like ntr dislike all genres of cuck porn.
The people that like ntr need specific definitions because they prefer a specific subgenre of cuck porn because the subgenre is different.
- Oct 24, 2018
- 5,551
- 10,284
In that reply I was using NTR the abbreviation (which I have seen applied to netorase and netori in the past) which I fully accept is not the meaning of the NTR tag. I suppose, to me, NTR is cheating that results in the ending of a relationship, painful or otherwise which works well enough in the context of F95zone since we have the cheating and cuckoldry tags which cover the other definitions.
What would be handy on the forum is a system of All-Caps/lower case tags to indicate whether something is a major theme of the game or simply present in sufficient amounts to be triggering.
I would never presume to know something so broad. Maybe someone loves a woman steals another's husband but would hate to see a man steal another man's wife.
And maybe they love it when a woman makes her husband watches her with another woman but are repulsed by the idea of seeing that with another man.
Or maybe they're open to anything if it's well written with fully ronded characters and simply hate substandard writing using lazy stereotypes.
You simply can't know that.
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The other funny thing about NTR.
Some people count *any* time a female character has the sex with a man as not them as NTR.
A wife has sex with her husband. You got NTR'd.
A sexual relationship is implied off screen? You a cuck.
Girl you just talked to makes eye contact with another man? Why are you such a cuck?
Actually it's not that funny. I am deeply concerned about these people and their ability to live in the real work where the overwhelming majority of women cuck them every day...
No, it's funny.
Some people count *any* time a female character has the sex with a man as not them as NTR.
A wife has sex with her husband. You got NTR'd.
A sexual relationship is implied off screen? You a cuck.
Girl you just talked to makes eye contact with another man? Why are you such a cuck?
Actually it's not that funny. I am deeply concerned about these people and their ability to live in the real work where the overwhelming majority of women cuck them every day...
No, it's funny.
And i would add that NTR and cuckoldry are about having one of the three characters involved in a abused/denied position. There is a masochistic play involved. Inwhich the cucked/NTRed is unable to enter a relationship with the love interest cause unedr the bull thumb, blackmailed, or whatever. Or the partner is deeply dissatisfied with the performance of the NTRed, and need to find someone else.
Threesomes are not NTR or cuckoldry. The LI being a widow, or someone who had a previous relationship is not NTR. And surely things that are not NTR are: being part of a rapist gang that kidnap and rape women in groups. Being a sexcult leader that have orgies with all the adepts. Spreading corruption and turning a family or a city into nymphomaniac sluts that spread their legs for everyone. CORRUPTION IS NOT NTR!!!!!
- Oct 24, 2018
- 5,551
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That alone wouldn't be NTR, but just for clarification:
You would agree that losing your swinging partner to... whoever they/"you" are swinging with, counts as NTR, right? Because that's one of the most standard NTR scenarios, so you got me confused with that.
- Oct 4, 2018
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Back in 2011-2012, I first came across it while reading a few mangas while looking for art by Sei Shoujo, the author of Discipline and Starless. I saw this manga where there was a couple and the wife was feeling repressed and a neighbor befriended her and within a few days had started having sex with her and making her "ahegao" every time. During those sessions, she was encouraged to say why he is better than her husband. Soon, the husband comes home from work early and hears her screaming how bad he is mixed in with loud sex noises. He becomes very anxious and goes to their bedroom where he witnesses her in ahegao screaming how good the neighbor's dick is. They see him and they continue encouraging each other to say things and get "lewder". Moments later, the husband completely loses it and mentally breaks down in anguish. My reaction was "holy shit, that's really nasty."
Later on in 2016, I was an uploader on my main account. Some of the Japanese games we were posting sometimes had NTR as a genre so I looked for the best definition I could find. And it clearly fit the manga I'd read. So I'd filed the information away. 2 years later, bloo was getting definitions for his tag list. Bloo spent a LOT of effort scraping sites and more just to get the definitions for the tags correct. I noted at the time that I'd seen this "NTR thing" going up in popularity in the western sphere as Japanese mangas/animes became even more accessible and popular. The thing that stuck out to me was that NTR seems carefully targeted to make the reader upset. That is in spirit of the Japanese use of the term.
Back in 2018, it became clear that the meaning of "Netorare" most often consisted of 3 central "pillars":
1- Is the protagonist in an established relationship where sex is in play? This means spouse, significant other, and even family members where there IS a sexual relationship. IMPORTANT... It's not "girl off the street". It's not "my friend" either. This is a relationship where sex is accepted or an integral part of it.
2- The entire premise is designed to stir up a strong emotional reaction of anger, jealousy, sadness, depression, etc on the part of the protagonist and hopefully the reader. Now, in order for the protagonist to react with anger, they must become aware of it. In many cases, it's the protagonist walking in on it where the participants have intentionally set him up so they are witnessed by him for maximum effect. This could also be a phone call. Or in case above, he "discovers it" but his love interest starts acting in a way to trigger his anger/sadness for maximum emotional effect. The point is, the act must be discovered to trigger the feelings of rage, sadness, etc.
3- The protagonist loses the significant other. There's a component of the word that means "to be stolen/robbed". In the case of the comic, he broke down and turned into an idiot while she likely continued with the neighbor for good. That's also important. It means the protagonist loses their love interest to the sexual partner(s).
So ask yourself these questions.. is the PC in a clearly defined relationship with someone else where sex is part of it or accepted? Is the story set up so the PC discovers it and it triggers a very strong emotional response of anger or jealousy in the PC? Does the PC lose their love interest to the sexual partner? If the answer is "Yes" to all 3, then it clearly is in the spirit of "Netorare".
In my opinion, I'd award bonus points to the writer if the reader got upset too. Which I think is the entire point.
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- Feb 22, 2019
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Ah. Based off of the official definition, I thought NTR causing distress is generalized. That NTR was inherently infidelity, but the emotion towards it does not determine whether it was NTR or not. It would make sense, however, given that almost all the NTR based genres contain distress in some form or manner. Next time, I will be sure to make it clear about the solid definition of NTR (or how I'll define it) because clearly, there's a lot of confusion surrounding this topic.Back in 2011-2012, I first came across it while reading a few mangas while looking for art by Sei Shoujo, the author of Discipline and Starless. I saw this manga where there was a couple and the wife was feeling repressed and a neighbor befriended her and within a few days had started having sex with her and making her "ahegao" every time. During those sessions, she was encouraged to say why he is better than her husband. Soon, the husband comes home from work early and hears her screaming how bad he is mixed in with loud sex noises. He becomes very anxious and goes to their bedroom where he witnesses her in ahegao screaming how good the neighbor's dick is. They see him and they continue encouraging each other to say things and get "lewder". Moments later, the husband completely loses it and mentally breaks down in anguish. My reaction was "holy shit, that's really nasty."
Later on in 2016, I was an uploader on my main account. Some of the Japanese games we were posting sometimes had NTR as a genre so I looked for the best definition I could find. And it clearly fit the manga I'd read. So I'd filed the information away. 2 years later, bloo was getting definitions for his tag list. Bloo spent a LOT of effort scraping sites and more just to get the definitions for the tags correct. I noted at the time that I'd seen this "NTR thing" going up in popularity in the western sphere as Japanese mangas/animes became even more accessible and popular. The thing that stuck out to me was that NTR seems carefully targeted to make the reader upset. That is in spirit of the Japanese use of the term.
Back in 2018, it became clear that the meaning of "Netorare" most often consisted of 3 central "pillars":
1- Is the protagonist in an established relationship where sex is in play? This means spouse, significant other, and even family members where there IS a sexual relationship. IMPORTANT... It's not "girl off the street". It's not "my friend" either. This is a relationship where sex is accepted or an integral part of it.
2- The entire premise is designed to stir up a strong emotional reaction of anger, jealousy, sadness, depression, etc on the part of the protagonist and hopefully the reader. Now, in order for the protagonist to react with anger, they must become aware of it. In many cases, it's the protagonist walking in on it where the participants have intentionally set him up so they are witnessed by him for maximum effect. This could also be a phone call. Or in case above, he "discovers it" but his love interest starts acting in a way to trigger his anger/sadness for maximum emotional effect. The point is, the act must be discovered to trigger the feelings of rage, sadness, etc.
3- The protagonist loses the significant other. There's a component of the word that means "to be stolen/robbed". In the case of the comic, he broke down and turned into an idiot while she likely continued with the neighbor for good. That's also important. It means the protagonist loses their love interest to the sexual partner(s).
So ask yourself these questions.. is the PC in a clearly defined relationship with someone else where sex is part of it or accepted? Is the story set up so the PC discovers it and it triggers a very strong emotional response of anger or jealousy in the PC? Does the PC lose their love interest to the sexual partner? If the answer is "Yes" to all 3, then it clearly is in the spirit of "Netorare".
In my opinion, I'd award bonus points to the writer if the reader got upset too. Which I think is the entire point.
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Liking ntr is pretty much liking some genre of cheating.
Not liking ntr usually means you don't like cheating in all forms.
Giving ntr another name/category, or making it sound better like profound intellectual writing, isn't going to convert people that avoid ntr, into liking ntr. Or misstagging ntr since it's the meme now.
There's some middle ground in there that is sort of a gray area in some games. For instance I like voyeurism and jealousy but I don't like watching a male MC's girl cheat on him. I do however like watching the mom or the sister with their boyfriend or watch the GF/Wife get tempted but ultimately reject a rival (so some teasing I don't mind but closing the deal is not).
The problem I've found with trying to find voyeurism content is it usually falls into 2 categories. Either the MC is just a pervert who does nothing but peep on others all the time (hello Big Brother), or it's all about the wife cheating. Its very uncommon to find something where the wife/gf catches MC cheating with another girl and gets jealous but turned on watching it (without jumping right into a threesome). If you want the jealousy aspect you're usually stuck with NTR/Cuck. I want the jealousy part but I want the roles reversed.
The problem I've found with trying to find voyeurism content is it usually falls into 2 categories. Either the MC is just a pervert who does nothing but peep on others all the time (hello Big Brother), or it's all about the wife cheating. Its very uncommon to find something where the wife/gf catches MC cheating with another girl and gets jealous but turned on watching it (without jumping right into a threesome). If you want the jealousy aspect you're usually stuck with NTR/Cuck. I want the jealousy part but I want the roles reversed.