Views on Netorare

[light_yagami.]

What I find hilarious is people often overreact to ntr like it's the manifestation of pure evil when there are things worse than that. At the end of the day, it's just another porn trope that adds a twist to cheating.

Well, if you consider diseases like HIV, maybe you'll change your mind.
Getting your wife to die of HIV by taking her to the glory holes.

 

[215303j]

Its very uncommon to find something where the wife/gf catches MC cheating with another girl and gets jealous but turned on watching it (without jumping right into a threesome).

I agree but I think it's gaining traction. Midlife Crisis for instance.

 

[khumak]

I agree but I think it's gaining traction. Midlife Crisis for instance.

I hope you're right. Will have to check that one out. I definitely plan on it being a central theme for the game I'm working on but I'm still waiting to upgrade my GPU before I can really get started on it.

 

[Virulenz]

Every time i see "NTR" my mind throws up many terms, but not a single one is as harmless as "dislike"...
I'm civilized enough to keep them for myself and serch for "avoidable" in NTR tagged topics...if i dont find anything i just ask myself and depending on the answer the topic goes to my download or ignore list.

 

[Wolfregis]

It's a rather complicated issue, I say this because I have my own predisposed biases towards what I consider to be Netorare. That however, is a subjective viewpoint when it concerns another individual viewing the same material. For myself however, I have mixed emotions on the genre, as I don't hate it but rather I find myself disliking it because it tends to fall back on the same tropes time and again. To be completely honest I'm far more familiar and am a larger fan of it's sub genre Netori. That being said though I believe that netorare can enhance a story if it done in an interesting way or does something to reinvent the tropes that come from this particular kink. Granted there are quite a few staples and there's no way I'll be able to cover them all but I feel going over some of the more well known could help to lead to an evolution of the genre.

For that we have to address some of the staples that have become all too familiar within the NTR genre. The first and foremost of these is the complacent or ignorant protagonist, who's normally portrayed as being unaware of the situation that is transpiring. The problem with this particular setting is that due to the fact that it has become so commonplace as a narrative template that there really isn't much that can be done to make this interesting. If there were to be a reinvention of that template it would have to do so in a way that transform the formerly ignorant character into a more active figure.

In addition to this we have to account for another staple of the NTR genre the ugly bastard with the +5 to seduction rolls mega cock. Do I even need to elaborate why this template has become so worn out it's fucking laughable? Unfortunately this staple tends to go in hand with the prior template which could be made more interesting if the 'Ugly Bastard' where to change as the narrative progress. Essentially have the affair have a visible effect on him emotionally and physically, which could change how the relationship dynamic is viewed, showing the 'Ugly Bastard' grow to fill the role left by the former romantic partner.

Then there's the staple of using underhanded means to make a romantic partner fall for the other party. Blackmail, drugs, mind control, and magic are the common tools of this particular sequence. Which granted is a bit more interesting as it dives more into the psychological aspects of the genre, making it feel more like a game of cat and mouse, but in the end it always ends the same. The person being pursued eventually caves in and breaks, which just feels boring after you see it the first few times. This could be made more interesting if the romantic partner that's being pursued remained steadfast, or turned the blackmail, drug, etc., on the other person.

Again this doesn't cover everything that encompasses the netorare genre but I think that it can be done in new or interesting ways.

 

[DownTheDrain]

Oh hey, another NTR thread.
How original.

 

[djerikou]

Sex games are just this, sex games. Or must I say porn games? it is the same. And the more the better.

This.

Liking ntr is pretty much liking some genre of cheating.

Not liking ntr usually means you don't like cheating in all forms.

Giving ntr another name/category, or making it sound better like profound intellectual writing, isn't going to convert people that avoid ntr, into liking ntr. Or misstagging ntr since it's the meme now.

Also this.

This entire thread is kind of bizarre to me. I've seen the NTR tag on Nhentai over the years, and actually had to look it up several times because the definition is so forgettable to me that it doesn't lodge in my long-term memory.

These are adult games. I don't know about you guys, but I tend to play adult games naked, obese, farting, and ejaculating all over my stomach several times per sitting, matting down my gut hair with a thick crust of dried semen. I also definitely feel all kinds of emotions, and have cried on many occasions while playing adult games. Nonetheless, the fact remains that it is porn. Not only that, it's drawn or CGI porn. It's a complete fantasy. There are no fantasies that are off-limits to me.

Now that said, there are definitely fantasies that I'm unenthusiastic enough about that I don't want them to be the focal point of the game: Scat, granny, bestiality, guro, snuff, and older brother/younger sister. The first five I'm assuming are pretty basic anti-fetishes, but the last one comes from personal experience as an older brother; it's not something that used to turn me off when I was younger, it became a turn-off as a result of life experience. I can't help but suspect that some of the people that are severely put off by neotare are people that have had an experience of being cheated on, or are currently experiencing some kind of romantic love or some shit like that (lol sucks to be you)

It's bizarre to me to discover that people are so worked up over a fantasy fetish, or to discover that people are spending paragraph upon paragraph debating the nuances of its' definition. Overall, I'd say that means that the label of neotare is a pretty shitty descriptor.

My personal belief is that the usage of NTR as a descriptor should be done away with altogether and replaced with just "cheating". "cheating" + "feeling of shame" . Two different labels. You really need to know more, use more tags, check the thread, ask someone. There are a plethora of kinds of incest, but we just call it incest. If we started coming up with different words for different kinds of incest and some people started actively using them, then we'd end up with people wasting precious masturbation time arguing about the proper definition of the term incest. Incest is incest, regardless of age differences, relationships, coercive elements, feelings of shame, etc, etc. Beastiality is beastiality, from a guy that's madly in love with a dolphin to a centenarian transsexual prostitute with one tit smoking meth and getting gangbanged by a stable of horses on video for $30. Cheating is cheating.


All that said, I definitely like cheating as a plot device and an element of my porn games, and I've seen it executed very well. School Days and Bible Black come to mind (these are also some of my favorite eroge).

 

[Deleted member 609064]

I love Netorare. I love women discovering their agency sexually. Good Netorare always has the female discovering that she has found a superior sexual experience that their other partner might not be capable of, emotionally or intellectually, not just physically.

Personally, I am all for women doing whatever they want sexually. It's their choice, their prerogative. If she wants to date me and then do bukkake on the weekends with the local sports team, good for her. Who am I to deny her something she wants? Is she my slave?

The quickest way to turn off women that I have found is to have a bunch of sexual hangups and to be sexually controlling. Women are much more open, freaky, and responsive if they don't feel that they will be judged or denied.

If you're going to deny her, some guy out there will not. She's going to get what she is interested in whether you like it or not. So why not encourage her and be a part of the experience?

Many folks take NTR personally like they don't want to be cheated on or to lose the girl.

The truth is, when a woman is with any guy, it's just his turn. We never really own them outright. They always have agency and some women have really high sex drives and needs that not all of us can satisfy.

On the subject of cheating, I will make an analogy (borrowed loosely from Johnny Soporno).

Committed monogamous relationships are like saying "My favorite food is nachos. I want to eat nachos every day for every meal for the rest of my life because I love nachos so much."

How long do you think it will be before I am craving anything else to eat? Maybe some lasagna or a cheeseburger?

How long until I want anything but nachos? It can be the same for both partners in a committed relationship. They both want something else, even if just for a minute or an hour.

When people are committed (more power to those who can pull it off) they often end up taking each other for granted. They don't have to work for it anymore because the man owns the woman and vice versa. People get lazy, disinterested, and stop growing who they are. That's where cheating comes in, that's where people get divorced after the kids leave, where people are not even friends any longer.

Instead of seeing Netorare as the MC losing, try to see it as the female winning. In cuck stories, she's got security with the boyfriend/husband and she has mindblowing sex with the passionate and experienced lover. That female has min-maxed relationships. She has it all. If both men are ok with the arrangement, she is balling out of this world.

If we lose "our woman" to another man, that's a call to improve ourselves and to find another woman. It's a call to action for the masculine spirit. Or we can become MGTOW and give up. Natural selection is satisfied either way.

 

[Obscure]

xcrash See... That is sort of true. It's also not.

While people do have freedom to do as they will, they also have obligations and responsibility.

You are obligated to refuse sex from outside parties while in a committed relationship. You are responsible for maintaining a positive relationship with your partner, even to the point of considering their 'feelings.'

Without the expectation of these things there is no cutting edge, no drama and no NTR. It is just some meaningless sex that happened.

 

[Deleted member 609064]

xcrash See... That is sort of true. It's also not.

It's a perspective, my perspective. I *try* not to make claims of objective or absolute truth. Of course, others may feel differently. We all have different kinks and tastes.

While people do have freedom to do as they will, they also have obligations and responsibility.

And yet, people have been cheating for as long as monogamy has been around.

What we should do, and what we actually do, are often not the same thing. Human behavior is frequently paradoxical.

Without the expectation of these things there is no cutting edge, no drama and no NTR. It is just some meaningless sex that happened.

I tried to detail a different perspective, one where the sex is fulfilling and meaningful for the female in an NTR story. Where she achieves a level of sexual and emotional experience that might otherwise elude her.

 

[HopesGaming]

How to change the vote! I misclicked!

...

My vote is a fan of netorare, hehe.

 

[WIRProductions]

I find the issue with NTR, and the term cuckolding, is it has been overused and warped through so many differing definitions all over the place. Taken to the Xth degree, everything could turn into an NTR. A fan gets a strong connection to a certain pornstar. Is watching her films NTR because the male actor is fucking her?

People have their fetishes and all the power to them. I'm not a big NTR fan because almost always the MC is just a dude trying to do whats right and his love interest/family member just gets taken by someone scummy, and the only reason why is 'big dick logic' or 'orc cum insta-conversions'. If a person gets off to that, hey, all the power to them. I certainly will not become a hypocrite considering the stories I write, its just not for me.

I've played some NTR/Cheating games before. Some were fine (usually cause the MC is a girl so it feels more like cheating than an emotional thing), some were blah. It also helps if the MC is a guy I do not need to name them, since then I'm not self-inserting. I would just like to see more the MC being the aggressor. Rarely do I see the good guy NTR the bad guys. If I'm going to self-insert, I'd be more up for that kind of NTR game. I take no joy or pleasure in being the recipient. Urban Demons comes to mind for the good guy winning, since there is a plotline where the MC fucks the bully's mom in their house and later in the bully's bed, and you can bring a friend along who was also bullied by the same kid. I'd like to see more of that kind of revenge NTR.

 

[AmazonessKing]

You probably won't get an honest response or input because those who like it would flock and flood everything to make it seems like people actually like it, and there's also a lot of trolls that would vote on it for the sake of it. Also, kind of a terrible poll considering it would be divise for people against NTR.

In either case, I personally despise NTR. If I could start a crusade against it, I would.

 

[megaplayboy10k]

A cheats on B, feels bad about it. A cheats on B, indifferent about it. A cheats on B, enjoys it.
B cheats on A, A feels bad about it. B cheats on A, A feels good about it.
A and B take turns cheating on each other.

A seduces D away from C. C seduces B away from A.
A invites C to sleep with B. C invites A to sleep with D.

C tries to seduce B, D and F, whom A is trying to seduce.

Any of the above, but impregnation is involved.
Any of the above, but instead of seduction, force or coercion is used.

Does this about cover everything associated with cheating/infidelity and the various types of "NTR"?

 

[Avaron1974]

I think you missed his point. He's basically saying he thinks NTR is the most reasonable way to make a worthy adversary in an adult game. I pretty much have the same viewpoint. I think the threat of NTR adds to the game even if I don't want to actually see those scenes. It's sort of like a difficulty mode.

Not really.

Adding a potential love rival is NEVER a threat because there is never any danger of losing. It's all choice based and the only way for the love rival to win is by making bad choices.

Take the NTR in Where it all Began. The only way for the girlfriend to cheat is if you push her away when she wants sex and then pick choices to make her flirt with other men. The only time you don't get a direct choice in her actions is if you get caught cheating on her but even then you made the choice to cheat.

There is no danger of anyone touching her if you do what she wants.

Even in The Tyrant, an NTR heavy game, it only happens if you allow it.

My Girlfriends Amnesia, a popular NTR game. The NTR only ever happens if the boyfriend is with someone else. If you stick with the girlfriend, no NTR will happen.

The vast majority of games with an NTR route will only ever happen if the player wants to see those scenes.

The only time NTR happens without player input is in pure NTR games and then there is no challenge because the game is rigged to lose.

A love rival never, ever, adds an element of danger because the danger doesn't exist unless you allow it. A love rival is only ever a plot device, nothing more. It can't win unless you allow it to. There is no threat, it's simply a case of "do you want to see her fuck someone else, yes or no" and that's as difficult as it will ever get.

I just find it weird when I read comments like yours saying it adds difficulty or a threat yet it never does.

I don't see NTR the same way you guys do I can't "immerse" as a bloke and i've yet to see a lesbian game with any NTR so there is no "danger" for me to start with but in any game i've played with NTR, if I didn't want to see it I just didn't pick those choices. There was never any difficulty or threat of losing.

 

[ChaosOpen]

It's a perspective, my perspective. I *try* not to make claims of objective or absolute truth. Of course, others may feel differently. We all have different kinks and tastes.

What we should do, and what we actually do, are often not the same thing. Human behavior is frequently paradoxical.

I tried to detail a different perspective, one where the sex is fulfilling and meaningful for the female in an NTR story. Where she achieves a level of sexual and emotional experience that might otherwise elude her. Where she achieves a level of sexual and emotional experience that might otherwise elude her.

So what about the other way around? Lets say I marry a woman and she has a kid and puts on a few pounds, am I within my rights to go out and "discover my sexuality"? Abandon my duties as a father and a husband so that I can have sex with younger and more attractive women simply because my wife doesn't quite satisfy me anymore?

If the relationship is so bad then why doesn't she break up with him before she goes around having cheap and meaningless sex with everyone she can find? I'll tell you why: cheating is essentially trying to have your cake and eat it too, you want to maintain the safety of the status quo with your current partner as he holds up the promises he made but don't want to be restricted by upholding the promises you made.

And yet, people have been cheating for as long as monogamy has been around.

People have also always raped, murdered, and stolen from each other, however, I wouldn't say those are permissible just because people have always done it.

 

[khumak]

Not really.

Adding a potential love rival is NEVER a threat because there is never any danger of losing. It's all choice based and the only way for the love rival to win is by making bad choices.

By that logic there's no such thing as difficulty in any game of any kind. You either choose to win or lose and pick whatever is required for those conditions to be met. In practice it's not always obvious what choices lead to what outcome.

The vast majority of games with an NTR route will only ever happen if the player wants to see those scenes.

I would agree that in most of them it's relatively obvious what path to take but not always.

The only time NTR happens without player input is in pure NTR games and then there is no challenge because the game is rigged to lose.

A love rival never, ever, adds an element of danger because the danger doesn't exist unless you allow it. A love rival is only ever a plot device, nothing more. It can't win unless you allow it to. There is no threat, it's simply a case of "do you want to see her fuck someone else, yes or no" and that's as difficult as it will ever get.

I just find it weird when I read comments like yours saying it adds difficulty or a threat yet it never does.

There are plenty of games I've played where I've stumbled into an NTR scene by accident after making some choice that didn't seem remotely relevant to whether I was on an NTR or non NTR path. Most of the time for me it happens in games that don't give you enough context to make an informed decision so you're basically forced to guess, something I find rather annoying. Other times it's not clear whether the NTR in the game is avoidable or not. Sometimes I go in assuming it is and find out it's guaranteed to happen. So for me the threat is there even if I manage to avoid it most of the time.

I don't see NTR the same way you guys do I can't "immerse" as a bloke and i've yet to see a lesbian game with any NTR so there is no "danger" for me to start with but in any game i've played with NTR, if I didn't want to see it I just didn't pick those choices. There was never any difficulty or threat of losing.

Imagining myself as the main character is something I just do automatically when it's a male which is why I generally don't like NTR. It feels like it's happening to me, which is something most people wouldn't want in real life. If the main character is female I don't have that issue.

 

[Deleted member 609064]

So what about the other way around?

I think we have a misunderstanding. In my personal life, I only do open relationships. I do not cheat or advocate cheating. That said, I don't do monogamy. If someone does, more power to them. Everyone should try to be true to themselves.

In real life, I tell women upfront about what I will and will not do. I don't lie and I don't set false expectations.

This is an issue with the NTR discussion. I enjoy it because I like seeing the FICTIONAL women get off. I understand these are comics and games, they are not my real life. No one is being betrayed or getting hurt, just like in BDSM scenes no one is really experiencing pain.

People have also always raped, murdered, and stolen from each other, however, I wouldn't say those are permissible just because people have always done it.

It's not about what is and is not permissible. I was making the point that no matter what the laws of man or God are, people do it anyway.

 

[Avaron1974]

By that logic there's no such thing as difficulty in any game of any kind. You either choose to win or lose and pick whatever is required for those conditions to be met. In practice it's not always obvious what choices lead to what outcome.

VN's aren't difficult by design, they are stories with choices. Picking a choice is hardly a challenge.

Difficulty in games is usually through gameplay and very few games are a challenge.

You have the obvious Souls games that are aimed at those looking for a challenge then games like Cuphead, Super Meat Boy etc.. that require quick reflex and thinking.

VN's where NTR occurs aren't a challenge, it's impossible to make them challenging, it's a choose your own adventure with less bad ends. Choices are usually 50/50 with the vast majority of those choices being painfully obvious.

 

[ChaosOpen]

I think we have a misunderstanding. In my personal life, I only do open relationships. I do not cheat or advocate cheating. That said, I don't do monogamy. If someone does, more power to them. Everyone should try to be true to themselves.

In real life, I tell women upfront about what I will and will not do. I don't lie and I don't set false expectations.

That is the point, NTR is cheating. It isn't an open relationship, she is sneaking around behind his back and constantly lying to him to maintain her affair. Her motives are purely for physicals pleasure, not because the husband wronged her or failed in any way, she is acting purely out of self interest. She knows she is doing wrong and she knows that the relationship with her husband is far more valuable in the long run, which is why she constantly lies, because once her sex partner finds a new toy to play with she will be discarded and she wants a husband to go running back to once that happens.