kilatin

Member
Jun 3, 2018
410
357
Wouldn't it be easier to have a coherent plot by writing ahead and getting all as opposed to update by update like he has been doing.
Sure, if you expect a guy to do all that for free, and in his spare time (would anyone really be hyped and willing to support a guy without producing a product other than thousands of words? My guess is a resounding no), without much financial support. Then you end up waiting twenty years as well, due to time constraints on the part of the author and lack of financial support so that the author has to work full-time in a job that is mentally draining as well. Never mind that no one would even know / find out about the existence of the project. Don't think anyone would be happier with such an outcome either.

Never mind the fact that plot is way more than what you get to see as the end product, so half the written plot notes will not even be remotely interesting to anyone who reads those plot notes. It takes a lot of time to develop that, due to the number of characters in WA. But it is work that needs to be done (unless you really don't mind massive plot holes, or a massively incoherent plot).

So it ends up as a delicate balancing act. Sure Irphaeus could release content every 2 or 3 months, that does not advance the plot one iota. Then people complain that he is just doing that. Sure, Irphaeus could rush to the ending, with lots of plot lines not attended to, or abruptly / incoherently ended, and people would complain too. People want quality, but it takes time to produce quality. And that is not even considering the constraints of the human mind and body. Do we really want to drive Irphaeus insane by insisting that he works on it 24/7, no matter how inefficient that is to begin with? Sometimes the best thing to do with such an engaging project is to take breaks from it.

Ultimately, in the end the issue is that there is no ideal funding model. I am sure that Irphaeus could have worked more efficient if he had known beforehand how things would have worked out. But if things had not worked out, he could have ended up neck-deep in debt.

As for the 1 / 2 day thing, the "better" option may well boil down to what is happening on those two days. But realistically speaking it is unlikely that a single day will cover events with a dozen characters, so you would get swamped with complaints like 'why did my Waifu not get anything this update?' as well. Sometimes developers can't win, no matter what they do.
 
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Richpry69

Newbie
Aug 9, 2017
39
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Sure, if you expect a guy to do all that for free, and in his spare time (would anyone really be hyped and willing to support a guy without producing a product other than thousands of words? My guess is a resounding no), without much financial support. Then you end up waiting twenty years as well, due to time constraints on the part of the author and lack of financial support so that the author has to work full-time in a job that is mentally draining as well. Never mind that no one would even know / find out about the existence of the project. Don't think anyone would be happier with such an outcome either.

Never mind the fact that plot is way more than what you get to see as the end product, so half the written plot notes will not even be remotely interesting to anyone who reads those plot notes. It takes a lot of time to develop that, due to the number of characters in WA. But it is work that needs to be done (unless you really don't mind massive plot holes, or a massively incoherent plot).

So it ends up as a delicate balancing act. Sure Irphaeus could release content every 2 or 3 months, that does not advance the plot one iota. Then people complain that he is just doing that. Sure, Irphaeus could rush to the ending, with lots of plot lines not attended to, or abruptly / incoherently ended, and people would complain too. People want quality, but it takes time to produce quality. And that is not even considering the constraints of the human mind and body. Do we really want to drive Irphaeus insane by insisting that he works on it 24/7, no matter how inefficient that is to begin with? Sometimes the best thing to do with such an engaging project is to take breaks from it.

Ultimately, in the end the issue is that there is no ideal funding model. I am sure that Irphaeus could have worked more efficient if he had known beforehand how things would have worked out. But if things had not worked out, he could have ended up neck-deep in debt.

As for the 1 / 2 day thing, the "better" option may well boil down to what is happening on those two days. But realistically speaking it is unlikely that a single day will cover events with a dozen characters, so you would get swamped with complaints like 'why did my Waifu not get anything this update?' as well. Sometimes developers can't win, no matter what they do.
You are really confusing me right now.
1. He isn't doing this for free. He has patreon. I highly doubt this dude is hurting for money considering he was making 3.5k a month in oct 2018 and has more than doubled the amount of patreon supporters since then. He is for sure not doing this for free.
2. Like I said earlier, I may be mistaken, but it doesn't seem like he has plot notes. At least ones that aren't very basic. He writes as he goes so I don't see how that is effecient.
3. Not every character is featured in every update and people don't really complain about that. They just say they hope [insert character] gets featured soon.

He is 2 years into this game. I'm not asking for stuff to be wrapped up quickly, I just don't know how long he expects this game to be developed for at its current pace. Your point about it taking 20 years is whats going to happen if something doesn't change cause 6 months for 2 days is extremely slow. I don't think he is being lazy. I just think his process is really inefficient and it is taking way more time than it actually should
 

kilatin

Member
Jun 3, 2018
410
357
You are really confusing me right now.
1. He isn't doing this for free. He has patreon. I highly doubt this dude is hurting for money considering he was making 3.5k a month in oct 2018 and has more than doubled the amount of patreon supporters since then. He is for sure not doing this for free.
And you really seemed to have failed to grasp my point.

Sure he could have had a Patreon if he had been just writing the plot. Do you really think he would be raking in the amount of money that he is now getting if he had just been working on the plot? You failed to answer that question. So let me try it again: if he was just developing the plot do you think, he would be making as much money on Patreon? Enough to pay all the bills so he could develop the plot for Waifu Academy full time? And if not, what do you think that would mean for the actual development of the game, let alone if there is / was going to be a game to be developed in the first place as a result of that?

2. Like I said earlier, I may be mistaken, but it doesn't seem like he has plot notes. At least ones that aren't very basic. He writes as he goes so I don't see how that is effecient.
First of all, you are mistaken: you did not say that earlier. Second of all, it is extremely likely that he uses plot notes. Extremely likely to have been (partially) written down, because otherwise he just has to mentally keep track of nearly a thousand relationships between characters in his head. And since power dynamics are at play, they are not necessarily symmetrical in nature. Never mind whatever else is going on in the characters' lives. That can be rather taxing, to say the least.

As for how advanced they are I do not know. But given the sheer amount of characters, with their own active lives, that is quite the task. This is not exactly a story, where NPCs do the square root of nothing until the MC shows some attention to them, after which the female NPCs will undress in a matter of five minutes for some sexy times. Which is extremely common in other games (maybe made slightly more difficult by requiring a fetch quest or two).

Without using plot notes, quality control processes would either come to a near standstill, due to everything that has to be checked for and accounted for, or it would simply show up in massive plot holes, or incoherent story lines. Neither of which has happened.

3. Not every character is featured in every update and people don't really complain about that. They just say they hope [insert character] gets featured soon.
Yeah, because pretty much every character gets featured in an update. And if a character misses out, plenty of other characters get attention. If it just say three characters, out of 2 dozen, that get featured in a short update (which is certainly possible with a 1-day update, depending on who gets featured), there will be boatloads of complaints. Even more so if some of the character development does not include sexy times. That might mean if someone is an Inori-fan, they would have to wait 6 updates or so before something happens with her. Multiply by a factor of two if said update does not include the desired sexy times. Don't think people will be that patient. You can see pretty much every thread of popular games with short update cycles for evidence of that. Or even worse, games that update slowly, and never advance the main plot, or include sexy times. Or even both. Yet some still retain massive following and support.

As I said before, Irphaeus could have gone about things more efficiently, if he had known beforehand what would have happened. Probably hire some help from the get go, streamline and automate processes more, get a specialised rendering rig and rendering scripts, and whatnot. But that did not happen. When you start a project, you can't bank on it being a success, especially not if you have limited means available to you (unlike say EA Sports). Can't really blame Irphaeus for not being loaded, can we?

The thing is, if he rushes now, everybody will be dissatisfied. But if he delivers a quality product, he can start a future project from a much better base, which would mean, among other things, a much shorter development cycle for a game. With the former, people will simply think that Irphaeus has laughed all the way to the bank, and not bother with Irphaeus as a developer in the future. There are long term benefits to both Irphaeus and players to the latter - and I do think that on the basis of the game thus far, Irphaeus has real potential, beyond WA.

6 months for two days is extremely slow, if it were a sandbox game. But with a visual novel, 2 days can be anything from 1% of the game to 50% of the game, depending on the scope and depth of the game. The revenge plot certainly does not necessarily have to take a year of in-game time. It will all depend on how Irphaeus plans to deal with that, and how long it will take to seriously develop the stories for the more neglected characters (for example, the abducted parents story line). And as more and more story arcs come to a completion, it may become easier to juggle the characters as well, thus resulting in an improved update time.

So your guess is as good as mine, with regards to how much time is left to complete the game. But as long as the quality is good, I can wait. It is not like there is nothing else to do this life.
 

Fleabag

Member
Aug 2, 2018
105
103
2 days can be anything from 1% of the game to 50% of the game, depending on the scope and depth of the game. The revenge plot certainly does not necessarily have to take a year of in-game time. It will all depend on how Irphaeus plans to deal with that
If you read this vn, you can easily guess that it even not near the middle of the plot. I'm glad that someone hopes to live 200+ years and 20 years of developing is nothing for them, but personally I would like to see the end of this story before I won't care. And we even don't talk about the technical part, you know, things are outdating faster than ever now.
 

KeepOnLiving

Member
Oct 21, 2018
214
501
If you read this vn, you can easily guess that it even not near the middle of the plot. I'm glad that someone hopes to live 200+ years and 20 years of developing is nothing for them, but personally I would like to see the end of this story before I won't care. And we even don't talk about the technical part, you know, things are outdating faster than ever now.
Sure, a VN that's also reliant on their models and animations does have to care somewhat about being outdated.
Thing is, it surely won't be anytime soon, and you can still get great enjoyment out of something without the best visuals on the market.
I mean, look at books. Their graphics are as bad as it gets, and still people are loving them.

On the other side, how much we are into the story or how far it's gonna take us - I don't know. And frankly, i don't care that much either, as long we are nowhere near the end. I'll let Irphaeus decide on this. He is quite simply the better Author and Storyteller between the two of us. And so far, he hasn't done that bad of a job.
 

Fleabag

Member
Aug 2, 2018
105
103
I mean, look at books. Their graphics are as bad as it gets, and still people are loving them.
Not very relevant comparison. We are talking about games and even though nowadays standards of porn games are very low, who knows what will be tomorrow? It might become painful to watch in only one year if something happens. Just look at older examples of porn games, like from 2016. Difference not so big, but it's already hard to enjoy them.
On the other side, how much we are into the story or how far it's gonna take us - I don't know. And frankly, i don't care that much either, as long we are nowhere near the end. I'll let Irphaeus decide on this. He is quite simply the better Author and Storyteller between the two of us. And so far, he hasn't done that bad of a job.
But I care. Maybe I'm thinking about the future, death, and stuff too much, but there is something disturbing in understanding that this vn might be finished when I'll be in my thirties or not finished at all like a lot of others. I know it's my personal problem, but still.
And there wasn't a discussion about who is the better writer, it's not the point here.
 

KeepOnLiving

Member
Oct 21, 2018
214
501
Not very relevant comparison. We are talking about games and even though nowadays standards of porn games are very low, who knows what will be tomorrow? It might become painful to watch in only one year if something happens. Just look at older examples of porn games, like from 2016. Difference not so big, but it's already hard to enjoy them.
I think it's relevant, since it's a Visual Novel, and the gameplay isn't really there, to be honest. Like in most VN's, the story and the characters take the center stage. It's different from a book that you as the reader have influence on the story, therefore they are not the same. Still, i think my comparison holds, that you can still enjoy a story, or a VN, to be specific, even when things are outdated.

But I care. Maybe I'm thinking about the future, death, and stuff too much, but there is something disturbing in understanding that this vn might be finished when I'll be in my thirties or not finished at all like a lot of others. I know it's my personal problem, but still.
And there wasn't a discussion about who is the better writer, it's not the point here.
The point about the better writer was to illustrate that we have no control, or very little control, over the story and how it develops, and how i think that's fine. How long the story takes will be nearly entirely up to Irphaeus. And since i quite enjoyed what he did so far, i think i'll probably enjoy what he still has to give. Let him decide what's best for the story, and how long it should run.
 

Mormont

Devoted Member
Nov 30, 2018
11,925
53,082
I looked up my old safe and it worked fine.
Maybe load before the locker scene and try again.
I think that has always been an on-going issue not quite sure why it's always been an issue but a quick load pick up the camera and leave I think it was and it should be just fine.
 

Fleabag

Member
Aug 2, 2018
105
103
I think it's relevant, since it's a Visual Novel, and the gameplay isn't really there, to be honest. Like in most VN's, the story and the characters take the center stage. It's different from a book that you as the reader have influence on the story, therefore they are not the same. Still, i think my comparison holds, that you can still enjoy a story, or a VN, to be specific, even when things are outdated.
As a fan of Japanese VN's, I know pretty well what they are. And all you have said is relevant only if pictures are drawn. Or really well rendered. Renders of Waifu Academy... definitely good in comparison with other western amateur 3d VN's, but still too primitive to be "forever young".
The point about the better writer was to illustrate that we have no control, or very little control, over the story and how it develops, and how i think that's fine. How long the story takes will be nearly entirely up to Irphaeus. And since i quite enjoyed what he did so far, i think i'll probably enjoy what he still has to give. Let him decide what's best for the story, and how long it should run.
Even though I understand what you imply, I can't agree with you. By reading previous pages I know how people will react to my words, but I believe you must speak when you have something to say.
Irphaeus is better than a lot of local writers, but he is not Ryukishi07 to wait for years. The plot of Waifu Academy is not so complicated and characters are not so deep to write two days of story half of the year. This VN is still enough entertaining and it's already a big achievement, a lot of patreons are proof. But I'm afraid this temp of work can't be justified and it will lead to nothing good.
Of course, I may be wrong.
 
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Deimacos

Member
Apr 5, 2018
367
728
Wouldn't it be easier to have a coherent plot by writing ahead and getting it all figured out early as opposed to update by update like he has been doing. I don't see how writing 2 days at once is better at all.
You are asking for him to invest the amount of time a proper novel would take to develop before even knowing if people are gonna take an interest in it or not, let alone make money out of it.
Most projects do start with an overview of the whole story, is the details that require work as things go on, and sometimes you end up changing things anyways because either you like the change or it just fits better, having "the whole plot figured out" from the start or early on may yield to nothing depending on how much things end up changing.
1. He isn't doing this for free. He has patreon. I highly doubt this dude is hurting for money considering he was making 3.5k a month in oct 2018 and has more than doubled the amount of patreon supporters since then. He is for sure not doing this for free.
2. Like I said earlier, I may be mistaken, but it doesn't seem like he has plot notes. At least ones that aren't very basic. He writes as he goes so I don't see how that is effecient.
3. Not every character is featured in every update and people don't really complain about that. They just say they hope [insert character] gets featured soon.
1.- He was doing it for free when he started, he didn't start with 3.5k a month to support him to just write some plot that may eventually turn into some game.
2.- He must, otherwise, the story so far would be a mess.
3.- Just because a character isn't featured doesn't mean is not being considered, he must at least know where it shouldn't be.
I don't think he is being lazy. I just think his process is really inefficient and it is taking way more time than it actually should
You could say that to every mangaka to have ever existed, this process of making or detailing a story as it goes is pretty standard on that industry, and even when the plot is already "planned" from the beginning, changes may ensue that take the story on an entirely different route altogether, only difference here is that he doesn't have a publisher pressuring to release a chapter on a certain deadline regardless off.
but personally I would like to see the end of this story before I won't care. And we even don't talk about the technical part, you know, things are outdating faster than ever now.
Although I understand the sentiment, Naruto(the manga) took 15 years to be finished, and others come to mind, like Dragon Ball or One Piece, so if people put up with that, I don't see how people won't put up with this, he may loss some, but he will still have supporters provided he keeps it up.
 

Moricano

Well-Known Member
Jan 30, 2019
1,663
1,118
I looked up my old safe and it worked fine.
Maybe load before the locker scene and try again.
I think I'll have to redo the whole game again.
You said safe, would it be inventory?
I don't remember seeing inventory in this game!
You would have some salvage with you to give me so that I can use it in the metro scheme I was so connected with the history of the game that when giving game over I was very sad. :confused:
 

Canto Forte

Post Pro
Jul 10, 2017
21,197
25,987
This story is in it”s infancy ... lots of menos to fight through and then vasto menos and maybe move it up in the ranks.
MC just got the taste of what a little scheming and a lot of hard honed mojo got him in the moist folds of his babes!

There must be some good in janitor club leader shlong self indulgence we keep feeding all these babes!

Game oN!
 
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Canto Forte

Post Pro
Jul 10, 2017
21,197
25,987
Those were the shows that instilled the good graces of such a beautiful game right here . Trigun .. oh goodness ... .

Dunpeale has some slick galore in there .. just makes the babes drop all their garments and land in your lap!

Hellsing is abslute grand babster .. those moves will melt any heart, slobb any jaw, fell any babe to the thralls of
maddening masculine thrusting demeanor, flair, gusto ... oh my!

Such a pure heart of vengeance this MC of ours has pushing him out of his confort zone!

Good thing dev has a flair of landing him deep and moist in some gracious babes everywhere!
 
4.10 star(s) 267 Votes