Hildegardt

Well-Known Member
Oct 18, 2017
1,121
2,295
  • the stress of constantly thinking that we're later than we had hoped
  • the understandably higher expectation that people will have after an update takes several months to develop (if it's with me, I'd rather underpromise)
  • the notion that some of our supporters may assume that taking this long will be the new norm for our future content releases as well
If they had a budget and were planning to sell the game with a set price tag like $30, then these were indeed problems. But that's not the idea behind Patreon, right?

As far as I remember the idea was originally that the workload of animators was much higher than the workload of vloggers, while both are getting paid the same rate by Youtube. So Patreon is supposed to be used to show appreciation to hard working content creators in other ways than just watching ads.

A single update won't keep anyone busy for several months until the next update, so it doesn't make sense to see Patreon as like a subscription service, because there's just no way this could be satisfactory. At some point some people will have paid the equivalent of a few AAA games and there's no way they could expect to get even one AAA game in return.

I think people like to know that their money is keeping the lights on on something they like, but they shouldn't expect any compensation for the money they paid to just show appreciation.
 

FlamesOfVengeance

Well-Known Member
Jul 16, 2019
1,555
1,824
I'm glad to see that it's all coming together and that we'll hopefully have the new update soon. I also totally agree with people above me saying that the art is what's making updates take so long and I'm fine with that. One thing that I absolutely hate about some games is when they have several different art-styles because the creators hired a lot of different artists. It just completely ruins the consistency of the game and takes me out of the experience personally.

So I guess there's really not much that could be done to speed up the process other than hoping that Chestnut will finish the art rather quickly (tho if it's to the detriment of the quality of the art I'd rather wait a while longer).
 

Tlaero

Well-Known Member
Game Developer
Nov 24, 2018
1,076
5,305
A single update won't keep anyone busy for several months until the next update, so it doesn't make sense to see Patreon as like a subscription service, because there's just no way this could be satisfactory. At some point some people will have paid the equivalent of a few AAA games and there's no way they could expect to get even one AAA game in return.

I think people like to know that their money is keeping the lights on on something they like, but they shouldn't expect any compensation for the money they paid to just show appreciation.
This is absolutely true. Patreon is a reference to "Patron of the Arts." It's like the people who gave Renaissance painters a studio with free rent to allow them to paint, with no expectation of getting back the cost. They did it because they wanted to help increase the amount of art in the world. Or, it's like people who pay for a yearly membership at a museum even though they go infrequently enough that it would be cheaper to just buy a day pass. Patrons always give more than they get, and they make the world a better place. They're absolutely the unsung heroes of these games.

Tlaero
 

hrimthyrs

Member
May 6, 2020
413
1,419
At some point some people will have paid the equivalent of a few AAA games and there's no way they could expect to get even one AAA game in return.
The flip side to the comparison to AAA games being that AAA games sell millions of copies with only a minority being pirated, while indie studios living off Patreon/Subscribestar donations typically only have dozens of subscribers subsidizing at least as many players who didn't pay in even one dime. In these conversations, particularly by the people claiming patrons are getting ripped off (and, if they're saying that, it's safe to assume they're in the set being subsidized by the very people they're implying are marks), a lot of noise gets made about SS, but DC's tens of thousands of patrons is by far the outlier and (I just checked) they still haven't quite crossed the $1M/yr revenue threshold, whereas the AAA companies typically announce billions in profit every year.

That doesn't even get into the fact that the AAA model requires its content creators to routinely put in inhuman work weeks in hostile work environments in order to meet management's completely unrealistic release date. It's routine for people to exit the game development industry after a few years due to burnout to go work in other industries with better pay, working conditions, and sane working hours. Hell, I was only in QC for a couple years in 2010—2011 (from everything I've seen, it's only gotten worse in the decade since) and I'd rather starve to death on the streets than ever work in that industry again.

If you're after a sequel every year with thousands of hand-designed NPCs, hundreds of square kilometers of hand-designed environments, hundreds of hours of hand-designed missions, and hundreds of hours of professional voice acting, you're in the wrong place, because no indie studio will ever have those kinds of resources, and no AAA studio will ever take adult games seriously because they have a smaller audience (i.e. they're less profitable) by their very nature.
 

argos.black01

New Member
Jul 25, 2021
2
1
Can't wait for the 5.0 release, Love the artwork. I somewhat like this game more than Summertime Saga. Hope to see more content from you, If i could, I would definely donate but sad to say I'm broke for now. I'm jobless, but maybe sometime in the future if i get a job, I'll become a patreon.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Reifon

jokuur

Active Member
May 23, 2019
976
1,165
  • the stress of constantly thinking that we're later than we had hoped
  • the understandably higher expectation that people will have after an update takes several months to develop (if it's with me, I'd rather underpromise)
  • the notion that some of our supporters may assume that taking this long will be the new norm for our future content releases as well
  • the stress of constantly thinking that we're later than we had hoped
588215460084973578.gif
  • the understandably higher expectation that people will have after an update takes several months to develop (if it's with me, I'd rather underpromise)
you get nothing.gif
  • the notion that some of our supporters may assume that taking this long will be the new norm for our future content releases as well
wallet.gif
 
  • Haha
Reactions: _Maou_

DD69-1

Engaged Member
Feb 28, 2019
2,240
4,125
the notion that some of our supporters may assume that taking this long will be the new norm for our future content releases as well
well the last update was 5 months back & it's not wrong people to assume that the content will be big, if it's not big then of course the 0.5 will backfire, so the dev is not wrong about this, if this goes till August then it's almost the time taken for ~2 updates and even then if it falls short then it's really sad, it would really show that they didn't plan this ahead & went ahead with it
edit; Dunno, in future how the updates will be handled it will be like this or .... only time will tell :/
 

jokuur

Active Member
May 23, 2019
976
1,165
well the last update was 5 months back & it's not wrong people to assume that the content will be big, if it's not big then of course the 0.5 will backfire, so the dev is not wrong about this, if this goes till August then it's almost the time taken for ~2 updates and even then if it falls short then it's really sad, it would really show that they didn't plan this ahead & went ahead with it
edit; Dunno, in future how the updates will be handled it will be like this or .... only time will tell :/
also that people dont like investing into something not knowing profit or when it can get back to them, and its about all games not only indie, i understand why dev was afraid to set the hard date for update but having no date and like u said 5 months of work then surprise update and little content... people will just start paying when updates will be implemented instead and i cannot blame them, u want to show supporters they wrongly assume it will take this long with updates then proove it with ur action, i seen enough promises in my life to not be pumped up by any stories of golden mountains or flying dragons or similar amazing stuff blah blah blah cyberpunk was the last triple A game i purchased before reviews and i supported enough indie games to know better
 

magicnuts

Member
Game Developer
Jan 24, 2019
336
7,423
Also, will the characters have more animations apart from what is currently planned for them?
If by animations you mean the sex scenes, then yes, they might change when we're designing a character's content.

hi guys mapple story continuation will be in the next update or 2 more ?
Hi there. No, the next update will be about Rose, and the focus of 0.7 is yet to be decided.

well the last update was 5 months back & it's not wrong people to assume that the content will be big, if it's not big then of course the 0.5 will backfire, so the dev is not wrong about this, if this goes till August then it's almost the time taken for ~2 updates and even then if it falls short then it's really sad, it would really show that they didn't plan this ahead & went ahead with it
edit; Dunno, in future how the updates will be handled it will be like this or .... only time will tell :/
- Development time doesn't necessarily translate into play time. 0.4 had no new backgrounds, 0.5 will have 12. Now each one of them may give the player 10 seconds of 'content' to look around and enjoy the art, but they have taken a lot of time to design (even with the help of a sketch artist), color, do different times of the day, make buttons for, etc. Another example: last week, I spent two full days posing and animating a scene that has maybe 10 lines of text and will take a player maximum of 2 minutes to play through. It was not necessary to animate that scene, and if I was calculating the dev-time to play-time ratio, I would never do it. But I think I made the right choice because the final result looks awesome and those 2 minutes will be memorable. You could say the same about many other unnecessary aspects of our game that take time to develop but only make the content better (at least to us) rather than 'big'. Another example from Chestnut: the hen tea scene in 0.4 took her at least 10 days to design, and it added 3 minutes of play time.

- We did plan this update ahead of time, but there are different things you can plan for. We worked out in detail the storyline and how the player would feel, deciding when more humor was needed and when we had to add more action or sexual stuff. We could have planned it for releasing it as fast as possible, and that would have been at the expense of the story, in my opinion. Now you could say we should have taken a foggy middle ground, and I don't disagree even though it is much harder to do that in practice but to say that we're not planning things ahead is simply incorrect.

also that people dont like investing into something not knowing profit or when it can get back to them, and its about all games not only indie, i understand why dev was afraid to set the hard date for update but having no date and like u said 5 months of work then surprise update and little content... people will just start paying when updates will be implemented instead and i cannot blame them, u want to show supporters they wrongly assume it will take this long with updates then proove it with ur action, i seen enough promises in my life to not be pumped up by any stories of golden mountains or flying dragons or similar amazing stuff blah blah blah cyberpunk was the last triple A game i purchased before reviews and i supported enough indie games to know better
- In truth, you don't have to invest anything, neither time nor money. We're trying to make a game that entertains, not one that poses a gain-loss analysis problem.

-We set deadlines and completion dates and try to reach them; what we don't do is announcing them publicly.

- I'm sorry that you've been so ill-treated by developers. I don't think anyone spends months developing a game to torture anyone or make them hate your work even though shit happens, of course, and each player will have a different expectation. If I may give you a suggestion, I would say reduce your expectations and don't make assumptions, since the only sure way to play a game that is tailor-made for you is to make it yourself. I don't know if you'll like our next release, and not just for the amount of content (everyone is always talking about how 'big' the update will be and forgets other metrics), but in this post, you have already assumed that 0.5 will be bad, have hated us for cheating you like this, and have told me to prove you wrong. I don't think that's a fun mindset when talking about games, and to me, games are meant to be fun. But, anyway, it's really none of my business to tell you how to enjoy games, so feel free to ignore it, but to address your point, I suggest you wait for the update, and if you see what we consider 'fun' and worth spending dev-time on is drastically different from what you have in mind, go for another game, there are loads of great ones.
 

reees754

Newbie
Jul 17, 2021
74
268
But I think I made the right choice because the final result looks awesome and those 2 minutes will be memorable.
The whole game is memorable because of your choices.
Absolutely brilliant game! Congratulations!
I was smiling from beginning to the end. I was thinking to myself if this is some bigtime professional comedy writer making this incognito.
And not only the writing - the Art is absolutely BEAUTIFUL! Not only the girls but also the small details in the facial expressions, the eyes of the characters, the humor, the maps. etc. etc. etc. etc......... :-D
There´s so much heart in this game it´s unbelievable.
I think your game is in a category on it´s own.

Absolute BEAUTY your game is!
Bravo!

PS: for 0.6 include GRETA´s part and make it brilliant and funny too. For diversity a MILF is needed! What an adorable character :)
 
Last edited:

DD69-1

Engaged Member
Feb 28, 2019
2,240
4,125
- Development time doesn't necessarily translate into play time. 0.4 had no new backgrounds, 0.5 will have 12. Now each one of them may give the player 10 seconds of 'content' to look around and enjoy the art, but they have taken a lot of time to design (even with the help of a sketch artist), color, do different times of the day, make buttons for, etc. Another example: last week, I spent two full days posing and animating a scene that has maybe 10 lines of text and will take a player maximum of 2 minutes to play through. It was not necessary to animate that scene, and if I was calculating the dev-time to play-time ratio, I would never do it. But I think I made the right choice because the final result looks awesome and those 2 minutes will be memorable. You could say the same about many other unnecessary aspects of our game that take time to develop but only make the content better (at least to us) rather than 'big'. Another example from Chestnut: the hen tea scene in 0.4 took her at least 10 days to design, and it added 3 minutes of play time.

- We did plan this update ahead of time, but there are different things you can plan for. We worked out in detail the storyline and how the player would feel, deciding when more humor was needed and when we had to add more action or sexual stuff. We could have planned it for releasing it as fast as possible, and that would have been at the expense of the story, in my opinion. Now you could say we should have taken a foggy middle ground, and I don't disagree even though it is much harder to do that in practice but to say that we're not planning things ahead is simply incorrect.
Hi, thanks for the reply,
what I meant by my post was did you guys think that it would take this long to release the 0.5 update when you gave the timelines ? I understand that it's a 2D game and it has challenges unlike 3D games.
Also, I was referring to your report, in which you had said that, 'the notion that some of our supporters may assume that taking this long will be the new norm for our future content releases as well' my apologies but I didn't quite get the answer for this, assuming that there are no new BGs to be made the future content will release in ~3 months, am I guessing it right ?
 
  • Like
Reactions: PhineasFlynn

jokuur

Active Member
May 23, 2019
976
1,165
If by animations you mean the sex scenes, then yes, they might change when we're designing a character's content.


Hi there. No, the next update will be about Rose, and the focus of 0.7 is yet to be decided.



- Development time doesn't necessarily translate into play time. 0.4 had no new backgrounds, 0.5 will have 12. Now each one of them may give the player 10 seconds of 'content' to look around and enjoy the art, but they have taken a lot of time to design (even with the help of a sketch artist), color, do different times of the day, make buttons for, etc. Another example: last week, I spent two full days posing and animating a scene that has maybe 10 lines of text and will take a player maximum of 2 minutes to play through. It was not necessary to animate that scene, and if I was calculating the dev-time to play-time ratio, I would never do it. But I think I made the right choice because the final result looks awesome and those 2 minutes will be memorable. You could say the same about many other unnecessary aspects of our game that take time to develop but only make the content better (at least to us) rather than 'big'. Another example from Chestnut: the hen tea scene in 0.4 took her at least 10 days to design, and it added 3 minutes of play time.

- We did plan this update ahead of time, but there are different things you can plan for. We worked out in detail the storyline and how the player would feel, deciding when more humor was needed and when we had to add more action or sexual stuff. We could have planned it for releasing it as fast as possible, and that would have been at the expense of the story, in my opinion. Now you could say we should have taken a foggy middle ground, and I don't disagree even though it is much harder to do that in practice but to say that we're not planning things ahead is simply incorrect.


- In truth, you don't have to invest anything, neither time nor money. We're trying to make a game that entertains, not one that poses a gain-loss analysis problem.

-We set deadlines and completion dates and try to reach them; what we don't do is announcing them publicly.

- I'm sorry that you've been so ill-treated by developers. I don't think anyone spends months developing a game to torture anyone or make them hate your work even though shit happens, of course, and each player will have a different expectation. If I may give you a suggestion, I would say reduce your expectations and don't make assumptions, since the only sure way to play a game that is tailor-made for you is to make it yourself. I don't know if you'll like our next release, and not just for the amount of content (everyone is always talking about how 'big' the update will be and forgets other metrics), but in this post, you have already assumed that 0.5 will be bad, have hated us for cheating you like this, and have told me to prove you wrong. I don't think that's a fun mindset when talking about games, and to me, games are meant to be fun. But, anyway, it's really none of my business to tell you how to enjoy games, so feel free to ignore it, but to address your point, I suggest you wait for the update, and if you see what we consider 'fun' and worth spending dev-time on is drastically different from what you have in mind, go for another game, there are loads of great ones.
well i do like what you show us thus far and when you see my review its very positive im not saying next update will suck (how i can know?) but u tell me first to reduce expectations and i assumed 0.5 will be bad, so how can i reduce expectations and think game will be good? and i only said that we should judge devs for actions not words, words can be empty and fake, i dont support devs anymore until after release or update so it dont concern me how long it will take for you to make it but i think people will have a reason to assume updates will take couple of months
 
4.70 star(s) 470 Votes