- Jun 17, 2019
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What if you inform your supporters you won't be able to keep up that pace, and they still want to support you anyway under the new conditions?
Ren'Py What a Legend! [v0.7.03] [MagicNuts]
- Thread starter magicnuts
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I also discovered it recently.
And it doesn't really matter if devs are performing a scam or they are just working ultramegahiperslow for whatever reasons. Even if that's true, if they aren't willing to (or they can't) speed up, at this pace this game will never be completed.
And it doesn't really matter if devs are performing a scam or they are just working ultramegahiperslow for whatever reasons. Even if that's true, if they aren't willing to (or they can't) speed up, at this pace this game will never be completed.
I doubt they explicitly said "this year we won't work because we have a baby. Oh we also plan to make a second one too, do your math"
- Jun 17, 2019
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Well, you are partly right, they didn't say that because they never stopped working except for a few days right after the baby was born. Also, they didn't plan to make another baby, this one they had on October 2022 was their second already (so next time you better check your data).
They literally said 'we just had a baby, our work will slow down because of that', explaining the changes it would mean to their usual workflow (basically they stopped working simultaneously, taking turns to take care of the baby and her needs, which should always come first). Then, they also informed about Pistachio's surgeries that delayed the progress even more and, above all, they keep posting a daily tracker from which everyone can infer their actual pace and act accordingly.
Ah yes, welfare for porn devs, just what the world needs lmao
it is called - shearing sheep
and ffs stop bringing up those surgeries, it ain't such a big deal for people in 60ties, even less so for younger, you recover A LOT faster, and spend a lot of time not doing anything anyway, in fact it is pretty much perfect for doodling with renpy or sketching some scene
I spent a week in hospital after a major injury, and by day 3 I was going out of mind from doing nothing
so, I still stand by my point that they work on some other game besides this, hence they don't care much that some income from it drops, because the other thing is also producing $$, and when they let this update out, it will be back to regular level for a while, so win/win for them, these parallel projects explain a lot why other devs seem to start to slow down by a lot when the project starts to gain traction, because single project will plateau at some point, which seemed to be around 9k$/mo if I'm not mistaken with WaL, so why keep pushing just one project when you can have 2 or 3 going, because anyone with any sort of coding experience will tell you that "polishing python" for 2 months is slang for something else, not fixing bugs in code
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Bro come on, let's be serious. it's been two years and the update is nowhere near finished. They are redoing drawings and writing. Of course they didn't work for the first six months, if not the whole first year.
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You can browse their Patreon page and see at least 5 spoilery pics or WIP videos posted between October 2022 and March 2023, and at least 3 more in the upcoming months until the baby's first birthday. That's actual work done for patrons to see, not just random numbers on a chart or a fancy weekly message. For comparison's sake, they posted around a dozen of spoilery artworks in the whole v0.6 development period that took them 10 months or so. So yeah, they kept working, just slower, as they said they'd do.
(Now you'll feel tempted to say they only did those pics and nothing else, but remember you were just claiming they did nothing at all.)
- Dec 2, 2021
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I have a sneaking suspicion you don't have much experience with project management overall. Either way, this isn't typical behavior of a successful business, nor does it bode well for the longevity of their brand.
Let me put it this way: what these two are doing is resource loading. They're finding enough busy work to justify continuing to charge their customers - the Patrons who pay a monthly fee to access specific work product - and not face issues with Patreon (and legal battles in some countries) down the road. The primary issue is that they're terrible at doing resource loading correctly, and any legitimate business would avoid signing contracts with someone who routinely fails to furnish actual work product.
To put it bluntly... More than two years for a single minor update - regardless of personal circumstance - is unheard of in terms of a 2D AVN. It's especially egregious when compared to other developers who not only produce regular updates, but have also managed to figure out proper workflow and scheduling to ensure they hit their deadlines. Your continued defense of these two isn't going to change their behavior for the better, but instead solidify their belief that enough people will keep supporting them despite a dramatic decrease in work.
- Jun 17, 2019
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I've never said they are the best at managing themselves, but that their reasons have always matched their output before this update -and that this past record is consistent with the progress they claim to be doing, all 'excuses' considered. Once this update is released, we all will be able to evaluate this period much more fairly -even if biased, as I'm sure most of the regular complainers have already decided this update just doesn't worth the wait anymore even if devs eventually produce the best lewd game ever. I've also stated that their credibility will now be on the line and their credit will be pretty much exhausted if 0.8 turns out to be another long development period, as there are no foreseeable conditions that would explain more delays (Holly's quest is already started and announcing more external issues would only be detrimental to their credibility to the point of pushing away even their more devoted fans like me). And I've also said that is just human to slow things down a bit if you have a somewhat stable income sources with no other external pressure than periodic whinning from non-patreons: you are working on your personal project, enough people are paying you for it, and they are allowing you to create that project the way you want in terms of quality (you are not pressured by deadlines so you don't need to cut corners and can work on it until you are fully satisfied with the results). As long as you are transparent about that pace so people not agreeing with it can take their money and leave at any moment they wish, I don't see any problem with this. And, again, these devs are nothing but transparent - if someone just don't want to believe what they say it's not on devs.
Now, for convincing people with my posts, I can assure you that devs don't need me to do that, and I highly doubt they are even aware of my behavior here, as we never talk about that and they just don't visit the thread anymore. Actual patrons get their official info elsewhere and can communicate directly with devs through those official channels as well, so what I'm doing here is irrelevant for the game's current funding. Heck, I've even said to potential patrons out there that it wouldn't be smart to subscribe at this point, and always advise to stop supporting whoever dev as soon as you see something you don't like or agree with -you may not change that 'something' but at least they won't be doing it with your money. So I'm just offering my views and some official info here and there so that people can make their own judgement about these devs' work and honesty, because I actually believe them due to all their past work and behavior (and this is not a blind support, it's always subject to change as stated above).
If someone already thinks that these devs are scammers then it's obvious I won't change their opinion anyway but this won't stop me from insisting on what I find fair. What I wonder myself is why someone will prefer to align with some baseless assumptions form people with no insight over this project, and just disregard publicly available facts just because I'm the one stating them over and over again. For instance, here you replied to my comment debunking yet another baseless claim ('devs didn't work at all during the first six months'). You choose to basically 'advise me' against posting that kind of info (because it can encourage devs to keep doing their bad deeds) instead of telling the other guy to stop posting clearly false claims. But without that other guy's message and many others like that, mine wouldn't even exist.
Ah sorry. They have done 5 pics in 18 months. Totally different then, so they are absolutely not doing the update now and that's not the reason why the polishing phase is taking so long. Wink wink
I can give you an example: Nenad Asanovic. Did Adventures of Willy D and now does EON. Single dev, does music, graphics, coding in Visionaire Studio which I assume it's a bit more complex than ren'py. Actually EON is one of the biggest games ever made in that engine. New updates come regulary, for many many years now. He has 2 games with TONS of content. Again, GAMES, like WaL, not a crappy VN. (I know drawing is one thing and rendering is another, but WaL never had issues because of the art speed, but coding speed). Comparing these 2 'teams' is a joke.
And the sad part is that the WaL team makes way more money then he does. Not to mention his involvment in his Discord, one of the nicest persons I ever met online. I think he's the most under appreciated dev here. It makes me sick to see how much games like WaL and SS are making.
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- Jun 17, 2019
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If you don't want to accept they are doing exactly the same they did for the previous 6 updates, only slower due to the alleged reasons, that's entirely on you. You'll never lose anyway, that I can concede.Ah sorry. They have done 5 pics in 18 months. Totally different then, so they are absolutely not doing the update now and that's not the reason why the polishing phase is taking so long. Wink wink
- May 13, 2018
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I'm sure it must be a great example, on your head at least, and it's probably a great game too but to me comparing 2D with 3D it's the same than comparing water to wine.
I hope my grandsons will live up to the release
Absolutely. But you're just showing ignorance, the games I mentioned ARE 2D, not 3D. You really should check them out, the see how they are "on your head" and see how much work is done there at what rate.
- May 13, 2018
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Well I like to believe that when I see a game tagged with "3Dcg" that's exactly what I will find, and when I see one that's not tagged with "2D" then that's absolutely what I will not find so if that is really the case I suggest to contact the member responsible for both games threads and ask for a correction.