First no. You are not a consumer. That is not how patreon works.
You completely misunderstood my post.
I was simply commenting on the fact that he is getting paid for both games when my post was simply explaining he is not in actual terms, as paying for one game gives you access to the other one, so it is identical to having a single patreon post.
That's not how it works.
Good god, again? Didn't he remake the first SG chapter when he took over from regium (or whatever his name was)? Looks like he's getting stuck in the remake limbo..
Not sure about that. I first played the 0.2 version of the game, when he had already taken over. But, according to what he said, he will work on those modifications between beta and final version and should be done by chapter 5. For example. 3.5 beta had old images and text while 3.5 final had some of the new images and text.
It's still work that delays new content, though. I don't think 3-4 months per update he had quoted at some point will ever be realistic for either of these 2 games.
That's simply not the case. If funds are available, bottlenecks are going to be resolved and work schedule will be optimized. If Ocean is serious about beeing a developer, and I think he absolutely is, he will act accordingly. Quality makes the difference. Steam will make a difference... For now he will have to make sure to invest in whatever he needs to invest to optimize efficiency and time spend on different tasks. As far as I know, he tries to do so.
Only thing we can do is wait. He's already made it clear he's not abandoning WIAB, in fact, he just got a 3090 for the PC last week, he has 2 PC's for a reason, so obviously he's not gonna leave either game. He has a dev log coming soon, so we'll have to see what he's planning.I've recently played WIAB for the first time. It clearly isn't of the same caliber as Summer's Gone before the rework, and even the writing is less catchy than SG. But I liked it nonetheless, Leia, Katie and Dana are great girlfriend material and I'd be very happy to see more of them.
The problem is that even SG, the game that is updated the most frequently and could be called the "main game" at this point, will never get finished at this rate. 2.5 chapters released in the 2.25 years since the release of the first chapter of SG. And no update to WIAB for more than a year (and chapter 7 a very long way off). Target: 30 chapters each. So we are currently set for the completion of SG in 2046. The pace of delivery is way too slow for its ambitious scope. 1 full chapter every 3 months would already take almost 7 more years to finish the game, which is extremely long (too long) for a videogame development, and currently we are on a quarter of that pace, so well below that. And I'm not even going to do any calculation for WIAB.
And how many quality upgrades from technology (like Daz) will there be in 7 years prompting the rework of the previous chapters? A serious amount. There is a reason videogame projects are 3-5 years long at the most: they get outdated while in development (among other concerns).
I would expect measures to be taken to make it a more realistic project but so far I have the impression the problem is not seriously acknowledged. Some things could be done though. Either to increase the delivery output, or to lower the targeted scope. Pack SG/WIAB in 20 chapters instead of 30 and the finish line gets a lot closer. Hire another artist immediately and you can practically double the pace. But I wouldn't hold my breath about that, I've seen other artists in the same situation have impossible expectations of other artists that they should be able to have the exact same style as they have, so they never hire anyone. Also I believe Ocean plans on waiting until the switch to Blender after the first season (aka episode 10), so that is still in 6.5 years at the current pace, as if this is not an urgent thing to do.
Even with the optimistic outcome of those two measures, SG (the more frequently updated game) would be finished for Christmas 2029 if we take into account the current speed of development. So they're not enough.
I do think Ocean should put WIAB on hold. We're going through a 6-chapter rework, and apparently we are only going to see the first chapter rework after more than a year of waiting. There is just too much to catch up on before we see new content, and while WIAB is a very enjoyable game (and I would especially miss Leia), I find SG is superior. And whatever you think, everybody loses if no game gets completed. So put it on hold and use the second machine to produce animations (or other renders in parallel) for SG, speeding up the development some more.
Then maybe the quality target could be lowered a little. Maybe we can decrease a bit the amount and/or length of the animations as they take a long time to produce. But most importantly, being a perfectionist is the death of any such project. And for crying out loud, stop the reworks of earlier chapters until you have completed the game else in a couple of years there will be more things that will need a rework, and it slows everything down to a halt.
So some things that could be done to give us more frequent updates and finish SG in a reasonable amount of time, then pick up WIAB with a much better update pace. Releasing frequent updates will also certainly mean a greater interest from the audience and a much larger number of paying supporters, which on top of being worth it for Ocean would allow him to upgrade his hardware further and potentially hiring more help. It is the only viable way forward I can see, but it needs acknowledgement, and actions. If we continue contently like this, those games will become a meme of never getting completed and will eventually die out well before their planned end. And that would be a shame because they have unrivaled potential.
PS: I've been holding back this post for weeks as I did not want to risk offending Ocean. He is a great artist and I respect his work. But I had to say what's on my mind out of concern for the future of his games, I believe we're headed steadily to the wall and it urgently needs a course correction.
I wasn't saying he was trying to scam or milk, or whatever, I was just managing (my) expectations. But I was also have been seeing all the justifications you mention multiple times in this thread. It's been what, 8 months, since the dedicated rigs came into effect for the two games, and it doesn't look like they helped much with the progress. Unless (or until?) he hires some people to help with the two projects, I don't think it will be feasible to have consistent progress with both of them. He's still one dude, and rendering is only a part of the process of building the game.
You shouldn't use the word "ever".
Resolving bottlenecks is one of the key aspects within a software development process. Within a large project, there will be bottlenecks... always... For example in VN developement, based on complexity of the scene, you need software knowledge, hardware efficacy among other things just to have a decent time efficiency. One dev needs one week and another dev maybe 2 months for a static amount of renders of the same quality. Same goes for scripting within Blender/Daz or Programming in general. Pick your poison.
Ocean himself is the first one who will notice tangible effects within the developement cicle of his games. And he stated multiple times that he is adapting to the circumstances of managing the developement of two games in alternation. I believe he is capable of doing so.
It is irrelevant what they are considered as sales for taxation purposes. What is that he is selling by being a member of patreon? a game? images? post telling you how much he is working in the game? I am confident in many countries you pay taxes on your donations. Pretty sure a waitress in US must include tips as part of their income. The point is that when you subscribe to patreon you are not buying a game in the traditional sense, as steam.
Haha that is funny, I was just writing the same in my previous post. But I used netflix, as I think it is clearer as an example.
Exactly. it is not specified what he should provide in that service, except access to the posts. But it is neither specified what it should be in the post or how often they should be released.Damn, you ninja-edited me. XD
Seems like we mostly agree then, no?
You assume to much. The picture you're painting here is a recipe for disaster.
