VN Ren'Py Where It All Began [Ch. 3 Full] [Oceanlab]

[BobTheDuck]

YEah it's interesting pieceing together what happened and timelines.

I feel everything we are seeing now that we didn't before...just wasn't shown before...but was there in the background, Ocean just never either thought was important or his lack of experience got him sidetracked with all the other stuff.

He's just now expanding the overall 'what we see' and all the little things he never showed or introduced previously. Your previous post I liked...Helen's accident was definitely some time before Leia bothered calling for sure...

As to what happened with them...why...who was threatening who and with what...I guess it will come out eventually. I also like the new little changes, as you say, Donna, Dana...I think they work far better. However, in the old version, was maybe Donna being used by the Krayts? Is she still working for them perhaps? I dunno...maybe it's time to finally let go of the old version and forget it existed, stop trying to compare and move on with the new vision.

I think we can all agree though...old or new...Leia is a possessive, jealous bith and is probably the likely root cause of most of the issues surrounding the MC, others and Helen. I like her as a 'character'...she is interesting, complex, has depth...but unsure if could ever see her as a LI again....she even worse now than she was heh.

I just hope Willi beings Daphne back with him...even if that will piss of Miru,...and hey...who knows, that migyt be the start of any cheating route...*shrugs*....

It's an amazing universe Ocean has created and fuck the haters, if it's never finished then so be it, I'm just happy being along for the ride while it's going.

100%. I'm not expecting the path to follow the same progression, after all, it's already different, but the charcaters and their basic motivations are pretty similar. I think the next full chapter will get us to the point where the character's stories and tension will at least equal or exceed what existed before, even if the plot hasn't.

I guess in terms of completion, I'm thinking of it as a tv series or comic. It keeps feeling like you'll find out everything, but there's a twist and the mystery deepens. In a comic or tv series, that's not really an issue.

And yes to more Daphne. I can see her path being one of the more romantic. I don't think Ocean plans on leaving her out of the rest of the story.

As far as Donna goes, in the old version, I thought she was working with Warden Harbour - the Krayt people looked mainly like street thugs when Miru was dealing with the leader, and the person we saw in the scenes with Donna and the mystery blonde seemed to have a bit more class than the Krayt people. I think that'll be quite different in the new version. Donna seems to be with the college counselor, maybe she's part of the religious cult that Willi wonders about, that affected Dana, and possibly who Daphne's parents are involved with.

Regardless of where it gets to, each update is enjoyable so far and gives me a lot to consider, so yeah, the magical world between the pages is worth rereading while I wait for the next installment.

 

[Maviarab]

onna seems to be with the college counselor, maybe she's part of the religious cult that Willi wonders about, that affected Dana, and possibly who Daphne's parents are involved with.

Heh...yeah now you mention that, Daph's parents being involved there is just too obvious isn't it? hehe....either way, agree, we need more Daphne for sure.

 

[HentaiKami]

I would also point out...as per the story and dialogue...when William was with Katie alone...they mostly got on just fine with each other. Never bullied her alone. It was never William and Katie who caused trouble...went looking for trouble, got into trouble...

The common denominator to a lot of (nearly all?) Williams behaviour? That's right...

Leia.

Oh i know, but it doesn't remove the fact that he did bully her quite brutally when the three were together. Leia would bear more blame for that and is bigger arsehole due to it, but doesn't make MC not be arsehole. Unless they have been remorseful and tried to make amends of the situation. Though currently it seems like MC's girlfriend is the one that is actively pushing for MC to make amends for it.

 

[Maviarab]

Oh i know, but it doesn't remove the fact that he did bully her quite brutally when the three were together. Leia would bear more blame for that and is bigger arsehole due to it, but doesn't make MC not be arsehole. Unless they have been remorseful and tried to make amends of the situation. Though currently it seems like MC's girlfriend is the one that is actively pushing for MC to make amends for it.

You realise people can and do change when in the presence of others right and do stuff they wouldn't normally do?

I'm not calling the MC any saint...but the fact how he is with Leia, to how he is with the same people without her, is telling. Be that her influence...him trying to impress her...could be anything, but she is the single common theme around most of his asshole behaviour when he was younger (and ultimately, the fact that Gina, Katie, Dana and others welcome him back...kinda shows he really wan't that much of an asshole at all in reality or they would all treat him like Mon does, so he can't really have been all that bad can he?).

As to what actual extent any hold she had over him...I guess we shall find out...but this is a common personality trait of hers exisiting in both versions.

 

[HiP1]

the " clearly he wasn't there, there was no chance he could be an accomplice " is not true entirely He was not but generally speaking just because he was living away from their hometown does not mean he could not have someone else do it...William will be a person that would try to find out what happened but the one who investigates the accident is the one woman William did the most damage... Monica ,and i don't think that Leia does not know that Monica despices him

everyone knows what happened between MC and Monica... and Monica also hates Leia anyway.

actually, the chance of MC being involved in the accident is zero. he ran away as a kid, to avoid having to confront his mom. everyone knows that he is his mom's favorite. for him to be involved, he would need a motive, he has none. if he had wanted to hurt anyone, it would be Katie, as she is the one that made him run away.

 

[HiP1]

As far as good friends, I don't think Leia really allowed anyone to be friends with Willi. I think she monopolised his free time. Willi might also just be a horn dog and not realise he's subconsciously hunting the whole time. But leaving home at a young age will break off all contact; life changes fast in those years, and he missed out on the kinds of friendships that solidify as you mature into an adult. Half of his banter feeling out of place is simply he doesn't know Kat, Zoey, Mon, Katie, Leia, Gina or Dana as adults. His first reaction to Dana is to draw their younger frame of reference into being with the Jabba comment. He doesn't know these girls well - he used to. So he's half plying them with the attitudes of a teenager, because that's all he remembers - that's maybe where some of the asshole/insensitive comments come from. His interactions with Daphne seem much more balanced, while Miru's baby talk is cringe worthy but incredibly believable from a bunch of dovey morons who are oversexed

Leia had his number stored as 'WZ' in her phone, and he is an author of erotic novels - so chances are she being obsessive stalked him down long ago and chose when to call. Willi wasn't hiding, so much as he left. I think Leia other than being obsessive was also rather bitter that he left, so she didn't want to be the first to call and appear weak. Pure conjecture from me, but there's nothing certain other than Helen's accident seems far earlier than when Leia called, as the investigation wouldn't be closed so quickly and no one would've adapted that quickly.



I think it's easiest for people to make their own minds up what is intended at this point. All 'm going to consider now is there is an official release with all the relevance it needs



Oh yeah, 100%. But that doesn't mean it's the whole story. The context and the details are unknown. It might indeed be straight forward, but given what WIlli said about Katie and her most fucked up plans to annihilate people (some of which is projection I know), chances are she expanded on the threat. How she made a childhood infatuation such a problem (I can almost guarantee there will be no flashback content of lewds - pre rework, Willi'd never done anything with Leia, and Katie even brags Willi tasted her before he has gotten to Leia.



Winning while the spider then owns their apartment is actually losing to the entire spiderdom. The VN could've taken a steep dive - instead of Leia, it's Sigorney Weaver telling them to get out, they only come at night.... Miru gets pregant with a spiderchestburster

Actually, maybe Ocean did think like this and it was the inspiration for the tabletop scene in SG

Leia got the major part of his time for sure, but MC seems to have spend enough time without her to bond with the others enough that they still remember and like him enough even after a decade.
yeah, he uses their shared memories a lot at first. but he also pushes their current buttons too. he plays with the image they have of him, to lead them where he wants them. For me, the private talks he had with Daphne, Miru and the girl at the gas station is his current real baseline.

Katie might have been very cunning with her plans in their youth, but it was from the perspective of a young boy too. We don't actually know her current level. it might be that her cunning mostly came from her large creativity that she pours into cloth design now, and not really twisted plan making.

and yeah, Helen's accident happened quite some time ago. everyone already is used to it. but to me, it feels more like Leia got MC's number recently but pondered for a while whether to call or not. she didn't have the resources to track him down until after she stabilized her business, and even finding the time to do that might be stretching it.

 

[BobTheDuck]

Heh...yeah now you mention that, Daph's parents being involved there is just too obvious isn't it? hehe....either way, agree, we need more Daphne for sure.

You realise people can and do change when in the presence of others right and do stuff they wouldn't normally do?

I'm not calling the MC any saint...but the fact how he is with Leia, to how he is with the same people without her, is telling. Be that her influence...him trying to impress her...could be anything, but she is the single common theme around most of his asshole behaviour when he was younger (and ultimately, the fact that Gina, Katie, Dana and others welcome him back...kinda shows he really wan't that much of an asshole at all in reality or they would all treat him like Mon does, so he can't really have been all that bad can he?).

As to what actual extent any hold she had over him...I guess we shall find out...but this is a common personality trait of hers exisiting in both versions.

I hit my reaction limit, so I can only react like this. More Daphne will make things better, without doubt

Leia got the major part of his time for sure, but MC seems to have spend enough time without her to bond with the others enough that they still remember and like him enough even after a decade.
yeah, he uses their shared memories a lot at first. but he also pushes their current buttons too. he plays with the image they have of him, to lead them where he wants them. For me, the private talks he had with Daphne, Miru and the girl at the gas station is his current real baseline.

Katie might have been very cunning with her plans in their youth, but it was from the perspective of a young boy too. We don't actually know her current level. it might be that her cunning mostly came from her large creativity that she pours into cloth design now, and not really twisted plan making.

and yeah, Helen's accident happened quite some time ago. everyone already is used to it. but to me, it feels more like Leia got MC's number recently but pondered for a while whether to call or not. she didn't have the resources to track him down until after she stabilized her business, and even finding the time to do that might be stretching it.

Nice You're comment about baseline is also what I was getting at - his interactions with almost everyone are kinda falsely extroverted, at first I thought it was incosistent, but now I think it actually makes sense to his underlying character. He's mostly neutral when talking with strangers (Donna, Ben, the girl at the petrol station). He's trying to draw the connection out with people who's known from the past. The people he's comfortable with like Miru and Daphne (and probably Dylan) he just goes with his mood. After the initial awkward moments with Dana, he kinda quickly goes to his more baseline approach, while with Gina, he keeps up the banter because she does. Monica is a difficult question, because when he did her in the kitchen, he was actually into her, and he left her there when he realised he wanted Leia more. So there was attraction, he didn't use her from the start, and they both were into it. I'm guessing he doesn't know how to act around her and keeps putting his foot in it, but he also seems too smart not to realise what his words sound like to her.

I think also, when Willi and Miru talk about their detective stuff, they show their baseline. Miru clearly loves baby talk, but it's part of her play with Willi - but when they're both focused you can see their more normal intelligence levels. So yeah, Willi does mask his personality behind the way he talks with people a lot.

I'd say Helen's accident is recent, but maybe in the months old category. Leia had WZ stored in her phone, it didn't show her dialling a numbe she found written on a piece of paper. And she has Emilio, who is good at finding out secrets with his connections. We have to assume Emilio either got his connections by working with Leia (in which case she has the network to find stuff out) or she's employed him to be her network so she doesn't have to go around finding stuff out. Check through Emilio's reactions to Willi, he's never really surprised. I wouldn't be surprised if Emilio knows things about Willi that he didn't tell Leia, based on the way he said not to make eye contact, and told the girl off for saying Willi is hot. Chances are he found out a lot about Willi while finding his phone number.

So given that Emilio probably has also been around for a while, I'm thinking Leia didn't call Willi at the first opportunity, but at the point it suited her. She knows more about Helen than she says, and she doesn't actually act like she really wants to solve that - she's got another goal for having WIlli there, most likely just as someone external that she can trust, except she's too obsessive and bitter to trust anyone.

 

[yossa999]

Yeah you're right it goes half by half. So then we're seeing seriously speaking at this rate, Wiab IF itll be in development till conclusion, it may seriously take around a decade, specially he keeps working solo without a team. Well taking into fact I am graduating software engineering in couple of months, I believe when I reach a team lead this should be done ?

The AI will be both a team and the lead. Haven't you heard the Jensen Huang's latest claims?
"Jensen Huang, the CEO of Nvidia, thinks kids should not learn coding, but instead specialize in fields like chemistry and biology, as AI makes everyone a programmer."
So chemistry or biology. But I guess making AVNs would do too. Meat bags need their fap material!

Seriously, did you really think that a solo developer could create something as ambitiously designed as Ocean's games in a couple of years?
I'm hoping that the new high-end graphics cards he's leased, the improvements to the development process made possible by the new hardware, the completion of SG reworks, and the release of the first season of SG on Steam will allow him to accelerate. But it would be naive to think that he will now work ten times faster. So yes, years of development. Unless he starts hiring people.

 

[KiryuKazuma095]

everyone knows what happened between MC and Monica... and Monica also hates Leia anyway.

actually, the chance of MC being involved in the accident is zero. he ran away as a kid, to avoid having to confront his mom. everyone knows that he is his mom's favorite. for him to be involved, he would need a motive, he has none. if he had wanted to hurt anyone, it would be Katie, as she is the one that made him run away.

Monica does not Hate Katie ... Katie could speak with her not that she would learn anything ...And i was speaking generally ,the MC does not have motive but maybe Leia's competitors have something to do with it...

 

[Yougiblack]

The AI will be both a team and the lead. Haven't you heard the Jensen Huang's latest claims?
"Jensen Huang, the CEO of Nvidia, thinks kids should not learn coding, but instead specialize in fields like chemistry and biology, as AI makes everyone a programmer."
So chemistry or biology. But I guess making AVNs would do too. Meat bags need their fap material!

Seriously, did you really think that a solo developer could create something as ambitiously designed as Ocean's games in a couple of years?
I'm hoping that the new high-end graphics cards he's leased, the improvements to the development process made possible by the new hardware, the completion of SG reworks, and the release of the first season of SG on Steam will allow him to accelerate. But it would be naive to think that he will now work ten times faster. So yes, years of development. Unless he starts hiring people.

Well yes that's my though, unless he starts hiring more graphic designers to accelerate the process, he will take years and years to conclude one game let alone he's working on 2 simultaneously

 

[HiP1]

I hit my reaction limit, so I can only react like this. More Daphne will make things better, without doubt



Nice You're comment about baseline is also what I was getting at - his interactions with almost everyone are kinda falsely extroverted, at first I thought it was incosistent, but now I think it actually makes sense to his underlying character. He's mostly neutral when talking with strangers (Donna, Ben, the girl at the petrol station). He's trying to draw the connection out with people who's known from the past. The people he's comfortable with like Miru and Daphne (and probably Dylan) he just goes with his mood. After the initial awkward moments with Dana, he kinda quickly goes to his more baseline approach, while with Gina, he keeps up the banter because she does. Monica is a difficult question, because when he did her in the kitchen, he was actually into her, and he left her there when he realised he wanted Leia more. So there was attraction, he didn't use her from the start, and they both were into it. I'm guessing he doesn't know how to act around her and keeps putting his foot in it, but he also seems too smart not to realise what his words sound like to her.

I think also, when Willi and Miru talk about their detective stuff, they show their baseline. Miru clearly loves baby talk, but it's part of her play with Willi - but when they're both focused you can see their more normal intelligence levels. So yeah, Willi does mask his personality behind the way he talks with people a lot.

I'd say Helen's accident is recent, but maybe in the months old category. Leia had WZ stored in her phone, it didn't show her dialling a numbe she found written on a piece of paper. And she has Emilio, who is good at finding out secrets with his connections. We have to assume Emilio either got his connections by working with Leia (in which case she has the network to find stuff out) or she's employed him to be her network so she doesn't have to go around finding stuff out. Check through Emilio's reactions to Willi, he's never really surprised. I wouldn't be surprised if Emilio knows things about Willi that he didn't tell Leia, based on the way he said not to make eye contact, and told the girl off for saying Willi is hot. Chances are he found out a lot about Willi while finding his phone number.

So given that Emilio probably has also been around for a while, I'm thinking Leia didn't call Willi at the first opportunity, but at the point it suited her. She knows more about Helen than she says, and she doesn't actually act like she really wants to solve that - she's got another goal for having WIlli there, most likely just as someone external that she can trust, except she's too obsessive and bitter to trust anyone.

Thanks for this !

Imho, Leia having MC's number saved on her phone with his initials doesn't really mean anything other than she didn't want to let the number get lost on a simple piece of paper. As a very busy person, she would easily take the most efficient action. Everyone agrees that she didn't call him as soon as she got the number. but i don't think she chose a mopent that would suit her. that doesn't exist. she still resents him and tries to avoid him as much as possible. She called because she exhausted every other possible solution she could think of. she called because she had no choice if she wanted to get to the bottom of the matter.

Emilio is very perceptive and intelligent, he didn't really need more info, he could piece together roughly what MC is to everyone, and especially his ice queen boss he could perceive a change in her behavior once MC came back, and probably also when she asked him to track him down. and the time it took her to actually call him is very revealing too. Emilio might have looked into MC more after he arrived too. but being the kind of guy he is, Emilio knows when to stop his curiosity for his own sake

 

[HiP1]

Monica does not Hate Katie ... Katie could speak with her not that she would learn anything ...And i was speaking generally ,the MC does not have motive but maybe Leia's competitors have something to do with it...

Where did I say that Monica hates Katie ?
or you meant that Leia could also ask Katie to get info from Monica ? she probably did. Leia wouldn't have called MC if she didn't exhaust every other option first. She just chose not to tell MC that everyone already talked to Monica. Leia probably hoped that the shock of seeing MC again would be enough to provoke Monica into saying stuff she didn't tell anyone else.

You wanted to argue that there is still a chance MC could be involved in the accident. but Leia knows MC is the only one she could trust to have zero chance of involvement, even if she still resents him. At this point, she suspects everyone, even her own father. even if she sent everyone else to talk with Monica, she can't be sure they would tell her the truth.

 

[BobTheDuck]

Thanks for this !

Imho, Leia having MC's number saved on her phone with his initials doesn't really mean anything other than she didn't want to let the number get lost on a simple piece of paper. As a very busy person, she would easily take the most efficient action. Everyone agrees that she didn't call him as soon as she got the number. but i don't think she chose a mopent that would suit her. that doesn't exist. she still resents him and tries to avoid him as much as possible. She called because she exhausted every other possible solution she could think of. she called because she had no choice if she wanted to get to the bottom of the matter.

Emilio is very perceptive and intelligent, he didn't really need more info, he could piece together roughly what MC is to everyone, and especially his ice queen boss he could perceive a change in her behavior once MC came back, and probably also when she asked him to track him down. and the time it took her to actually call him is very revealing too. Emilio might have looked into MC more after he arrived too. but being the kind of guy he is, Emilio knows when to stop his curiosity for his own sake

The point I'm making about the phone call (and then I'll shut up about it): Leia didn't have the issue with Helen, exhausted every avenue, then went searching for Willi's phone number. Given her obsessive nature, marking the number of days in their anniversary, starving herself when he left etc. She would've found his number to try to control when she wanted to speak. I'm sure when the situation happened with Helen, at the latest, she looked for his number, but couldn't bring herself to call it straight away. Two scenarios: 1. Leia has an ulterior goal to do with why Helen had an incident ie Helen's situation is collateral damage to Leia's plans. She does seem that cold to her family. 2. It took her that long to use the number she'd found on her phone, because of anger, resentment, sadness whatever. Or a mixture of both. I'm not sure she really does want to get to the bottom of the matter, as she's not being honest with William anyway - she's asked him to find out things she could already on her own. She could have gone to Abigail on her own, I think she sent William to Mon simply to make him feel awkward - there was nothing to really learn there. The family don't actually seem to be taking it very seriously, they've adjusted life around Helen.

The Emilio question is what his role is in Leia's organisation. She's the head and he's the hand, but does she get him to organise her information network, or did he learn from her? He's obviously more than just a manager at the club if he's present at the lab, and he's got a high level of her trust. If he was tasked with finding Willi so Leia could contact him, that kinda makes sense that he'd uncover who he was to Leia, even more than she would let him know - the fact that he knows she gets jealous of anyone admiring Willi, says a LOT about Emilio's skills for information - there's no way Leia had a heart to heart with him.

 

[Maviarab]

I hit my reaction limit, so I can only react like this. More Daphne will make things better, without doubt



Nice You're comment about baseline is also what I was getting at - his interactions with almost everyone are kinda falsely extroverted, at first I thought it was incosistent, but now I think it actually makes sense to his underlying character. He's mostly neutral when talking with strangers (Donna, Ben, the girl at the petrol station). He's trying to draw the connection out with people who's known from the past. The people he's comfortable with like Miru and Daphne (and probably Dylan) he just goes with his mood. After the initial awkward moments with Dana, he kinda quickly goes to his more baseline approach, while with Gina, he keeps up the banter because she does. Monica is a difficult question, because when he did her in the kitchen, he was actually into her, and he left her there when he realised he wanted Leia more. So there was attraction, he didn't use her from the start, and they both were into it. I'm guessing he doesn't know how to act around her and keeps putting his foot in it, but he also seems too smart not to realise what his words sound like to her.

I think also, when Willi and Miru talk about their detective stuff, they show their baseline. Miru clearly loves baby talk, but it's part of her play with Willi - but when they're both focused you can see their more normal intelligence levels. So yeah, Willi does mask his personality behind the way he talks with people a lot.

I'd say Helen's accident is recent, but maybe in the months old category. Leia had WZ stored in her phone, it didn't show her dialling a numbe she found written on a piece of paper. And she has Emilio, who is good at finding out secrets with his connections. We have to assume Emilio either got his connections by working with Leia (in which case she has the network to find stuff out) or she's employed him to be her network so she doesn't have to go around finding stuff out. Check through Emilio's reactions to Willi, he's never really surprised. I wouldn't be surprised if Emilio knows things about Willi that he didn't tell Leia, based on the way he said not to make eye contact, and told the girl off for saying Willi is hot. Chances are he found out a lot about Willi while finding his phone number.

So given that Emilio probably has also been around for a while, I'm thinking Leia didn't call Willi at the first opportunity, but at the point it suited her. She knows more about Helen than she says, and she doesn't actually act like she really wants to solve that - she's got another goal for having WIlli there, most likely just as someone external that she can trust, except she's too obsessive and bitter to trust anyone.

The point I'm making about the phone call (and then I'll shut up about it): Leia didn't have the issue with Helen, exhausted every avenue, then went searching for Willi's phone number. Given her obsessive nature, marking the number of days in their anniversary, starving herself when he left etc. She would've found his number to try to control when she wanted to speak. I'm sure when the situation happened with Helen, at the latest, she looked for his number, but couldn't bring herself to call it straight away. Two scenarios: 1. Leia has an ulterior goal to do with why Helen had an incident ie Helen's situation is collateral damage to Leia's plans. She does seem that cold to her family. 2. It took her that long to use the number she'd found on her phone, because of anger, resentment, sadness whatever. Or a mixture of both. I'm not sure she really does want to get to the bottom of the matter, as she's not being honest with William anyway - she's asked him to find out things she could already on her own. She could have gone to Abigail on her own, I think she sent William to Mon simply to make him feel awkward - there was nothing to really learn there. The family don't actually seem to be taking it very seriously, they've adjusted life around Helen.

Excellent, excellent posts Bob...

 

[BobTheDuck]

Excellent, excellent posts Bob...

Thank you, out of reacts so I'll reply - I might be so far from the mark (I mean everyone likes their own theories or they wouldn't own them right? ), but the joy of Ocean's games is trying to guess in advance - so even if I'm wrong, the most satisfying way to play the games is to look for all the intentions, all the things hidden in our peripheral vision etc. The majority of the game is the misdirections and wild goose chases Ocean sends our thoughts on.

 

[Maviarab]

Thank you, out of reacts so I'll reply - I might be so far from the mark (I mean everyone likes their own theories or they wouldn't own them right? ), but the joy of Ocean's games is trying to guess in advance - so even if I'm wrong, the most satisfying way to play the games is to look for all the intentions, all the things hidden in our peripheral vision etc. The majority of the game is the misdirections and wild goose chases Ocean sends our thoughts on.

Couldn't agree more...I'm pretty much with you on all you have said, very much on the same wavelength.

 

[KiryuKazuma095]

Where did I say that Monica hates Katie ?
or you meant that Leia could also ask Katie to get info from Monica ? she probably did. Leia wouldn't have called MC if she didn't exhaust every other option first. She just chose not to tell MC that everyone already talked to Monica. Leia probably hoped that the shock of seeing MC again would be enough to provoke Monica into saying stuff she didn't tell anyone else.

You wanted to argue that there is still a chance MC could be involved in the accident. but Leia knows MC is the only one she could trust to have zero chance of involvement, even if she still resents him. At this point, she suspects everyone, even her own father. even if she sent everyone else to talk with Monica, she can't be sure they would tell her the truth.

I don't want to argue that William could b e involved in Helen's accident and i never said that Monica hates Katie... I said that Leia told MC that he has to speak with Monica because monica hates her as much as she despised MC for what she did...Katie needs Leia's help my friend so she will tell her the truth and she does want to find out the truth...As for the suspicion Leia has for her father ... Personally i don't see why would he want to harm her???where is the motive??

 

[HiP1]

I don't want to argue that William could b e involved in Helen's accident and i never said that Monica hates Katie... I said that Leia told MC that he has to speak with Monica because monica hates her as much as she despised MC for what she did...Katie needs Leia's help my friend so she will tell her the truth and she does want to find out the truth...As for the suspicion Leia has for her father ... Personally i don't see why would he want to harm her???where is the motive??

it seems you are confusing what I say, maybe you read too quickly.

It was not about what Katie would actually do or not. it was about what Leia thinks of the others, Katie included. MC is the only one she can trusts, from her point of view. doesn't matter if Katie is on her side and also wants to find out the truth. Leia is not the kind that would trust easily once doubt sets in.
If Leia suspects Dylan, then there is a reason. She didn't disclose it to anyone yet. it might be just speculation, but still she suspects Dylan and told MC. again, it's from her perspective. it doesn't matter if Dylan has an actual motive or not in this discussion.

 

[KiryuKazuma095]

it seems you are confusing what I say, maybe you read too quickly.

It was not about what Katie would actually do or not. it was about what Leia thinks of the others, Katie included. MC is the only one she can trusts, from her point of view. doesn't matter if Katie is on her side and also wants to find out the truth. Leia is not the kind that would trust easily once doubt sets in.
If Leia suspects Dylan, then there is a reason. She didn't disclose it to anyone yet. it might be just speculation, but still she suspects Dylan and told MC. again, it's from her perspective. it doesn't matter if Dylan has an actual motive or not in this discussion.

Oh , now i see your point, sorryfor the confusion ,well we will see what happened in the future of the story...

 

[HiP1]

The point I'm making about the phone call (and then I'll shut up about it): Leia didn't have the issue with Helen, exhausted every avenue, then went searching for Willi's phone number. Given her obsessive nature, marking the number of days in their anniversary, starving herself when he left etc. She would've found his number to try to control when she wanted to speak. I'm sure when the situation happened with Helen, at the latest, she looked for his number, but couldn't bring herself to call it straight away. Two scenarios: 1. Leia has an ulterior goal to do with why Helen had an incident ie Helen's situation is collateral damage to Leia's plans. She does seem that cold to her family. 2. It took her that long to use the number she'd found on her phone, because of anger, resentment, sadness whatever. Or a mixture of both. I'm not sure she really does want to get to the bottom of the matter, as she's not being honest with William anyway - she's asked him to find out things she could already on her own. She could have gone to Abigail on her own, I think she sent William to Mon simply to make him feel awkward - there was nothing to really learn there. The family don't actually seem to be taking it very seriously, they've adjusted life around Helen.

The Emilio question is what his role is in Leia's organisation. She's the head and he's the hand, but does she get him to organise her information network, or did he learn from her? He's obviously more than just a manager at the club if he's present at the lab, and he's got a high level of her trust. If he was tasked with finding Willi so Leia could contact him, that kinda makes sense that he'd uncover who he was to Leia, even more than she would let him know - the fact that he knows she gets jealous of anyone admiring Willi, says a LOT about Emilio's skills for information - there's no way Leia had a heart to heart with him.

Thanks for taking the time to write all this, bro.

my take on it was that even if she wanted to find MC early, she couldn't. MC was very hard to track down, especially since she didn't even know he went to jail for many years. that's why i think she only found his number very recently. might be a bit before the accident, but there was no real reason why. I think she exhausted all her solution after the accident, and then started the investigation to find MC who was then much easier to find (with his novel, and job, and probably social media).

to me, she sent MC to Monica to provoke a stronger reaction, hoping it would make her tell stuff out of anger or shock, that she didn't want to tell anyone. sure, she might have also wanted MC to get beaten or yelled at, too

that's not the kind of information Emilio would find while investigating the whereabouts of MC, actually. that's why I'm saying that he is very perceptive instead. Leia, even if she trusts him somewhat, would never disclose her feelings for MC to him, and aside from her, no one else would be able to tell him anyway. he can only piece it together by gauging her reactions. and to me, it's clear she trusts him because he knows when to stop and not push, thanks to his perception.