- Jul 12, 2020
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- Thread starter 7767
- Start date
- Aug 16, 2022
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Makes no sense to me. If incest is the issue here then why leave the biggest offense which is literally William + Leia?
I don't get it. But I did warn that Ocean is gonna rewrite both game narratives 500 more times before either of them is done. If by the end William never actually existed and he was just a manifestation of the friendships we made along the way I would not be at all surprised
- Nov 6, 2019
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NOOOOOOO he ruined Katie and Helen and Scarlet and everything!!! Everyone boo him
- Jul 5, 2022
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It is truly is an utterly baffling decision. This man's brain works in mysterious ways. it just makes no sense at all. WHYYY?
This is just odd imo.
I really dont get it, im not even a incest fan but you know what i think is even worse?
Having strange roommate/landlady situation like in SG were Nika and Nami live with Nojiko yet somehow arent adopted.
This sounds like we will end up in a similar strange limbo in wiab, William and Leia having a family which kinda isnt their family ... to make it more believeable that william fucks everyone ... what?
Its not natural to fuck you family no matter if they are blood related or if the mc and leia are adopted ... so if you dont like that, maybe dont create an incest avn. And this kinda sounds like that William and Leia are now siblings who got raised by a family but arent adopted ............
It makes the characters just feel family-less and a story less immersive. I would even prefer the Zane's to not be LI's or William being the son of the neighbors, who fucks the zane girls or whatever over this mess.
But its just such a strange decision to create an avn which is nothing but a huge incest bubble just to delete and hide the incest like that, and even less if patreon already banned your page lol. Maybe just give the mc a normal family and normal LI's to begin with in this case.
Wiab without incest patch was already such a mess and i imagine it will only get worse now in terms of logic of relations.
The only good part is that it could be used to explain/deepen the Willy/Leia bond further.
Maybe he made this choice for SG? To avoid incest relationships for Nika with the Zane family descendants?
I really dont get it, im not even a incest fan but you know what i think is even worse?
Having strange roommate/landlady situation like in SG were Nika and Nami live with Nojiko yet somehow arent adopted.
This sounds like we will end up in a similar strange limbo in wiab, William and Leia having a family which kinda isnt their family ... to make it more believeable that william fucks everyone ... what?
Its not natural to fuck you family no matter if they are blood related or if the mc and leia are adopted ... so if you dont like that, maybe dont create an incest avn. And this kinda sounds like that William and Leia are now siblings who got raised by a family but arent adopted ............
It makes the characters just feel family-less and a story less immersive. I would even prefer the Zane's to not be LI's or William being the son of the neighbors, who fucks the zane girls or whatever over this mess.
But its just such a strange decision to create an avn which is nothing but a huge incest bubble just to delete and hide the incest like that, and even less if patreon already banned your page lol. Maybe just give the mc a normal family and normal LI's to begin with in this case.
Wiab without incest patch was already such a mess and i imagine it will only get worse now in terms of logic of relations.
The only good part is that it could be used to explain/deepen the Willy/Leia bond further.
Maybe he made this choice for SG? To avoid incest relationships for Nika with the Zane family descendants?
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- Nov 13, 2022
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At this point it stopped being funny, watching Ocean use his PhD in bad decisions to make as many bad decisions as possible has been a pretty bizarre journey.I was being entirely serious though. And I've been one of the biggest haters of Oceans reworks for fucking years.
Like Ocean mentioned in the devlog some people are going to be bothered by the changes and others won't. Personally I'm on the camp of "If I need a lobotomy to enjoy a story, it's probably not a very good story". I know it's controversial but I need some sense, structure and logic in my stories in order to enjoy them. Even AVN's!!! If I wanted to beat my meat I'd just go with video format
I've never had issues with WiAB, old or new, in this regard but SG is an entirely different beast. I've tried to play without the patch and I refuse to believe there is a single soul out here capable of critical thinking and reading comprehension that thinks that shit makes any sort of sense. Even if you disregard all "Evil Modder" theories, the story was clearly written one way and is utterly devoid of logic if it tries to veer in another direction.
So with all due respect to people like yossa999, even if you can somehow make sense of a story when it changes that much, even if you think replacing words likes "sister" with "friend" magically makes it all fall into place, ignoring all sorts of previously provided context, doesn't mean everyone else can.
But I'm getting ahead of myself. Let's see how Ocean tackles this. I'd be lying if I said I think it's gonna work when the entire game so far is predicated on Katie being Leia and Willie's sister, Dylan being their father and Helen their mother. That also applies to the rest of the family.
- Mar 10, 2024
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Hello everyone, I strongly disagree with the author's decision regarding William's family. I think this is an interesting and well-developed incest story. Now, I see many connecting SG's Nika with William's family. Is there something I've missed?
- Jul 12, 2020
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Yeah...you missed a lot of talk in the SG thread over Nika and Nami's true parentage.
- Feb 12, 2019
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Disappointing news. My expectations keep getting lower.
- Dec 24, 2018
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Someone should make a game about actual landladies and tenants, non ironically, but hamming up all the tropes well, fourth wall be damned.
Yes...yes I did lmao.
I'll just be.....over here >>>>>>>>>>>>
...I just realised the spider thing was kinda a replacement for the drugs moment in the original, and that's me facepalming myself for not noticing the retconned connection. I'm hoping we still have a drugs moment like that. I mean, the interactions with Katie and Donna's story line were the two things that carried the old game for me. Katie can still have all that whatever her pixels are called.
This is the thing, incest isn't Ocean's problem here, otherwise, Willi would have no blood relatives. Leia being his sister (and the assumption she is an LI, because of their past etc) is the single most problematic item on the list. If you keep that, what does it matter that Katie is a sister too, or that Helen is his mom, Kat his cousin? I mean Lucas, Uncle Joe and Dylan will never be incest paths for me on any one of my playthroughs, because that's just me.Makes no sense to me. If incest is the issue here then why leave the biggest offense which is literally William + Leia?
I don't get it. But I did warn that Ocean is gonna rewrite both game narratives 500 more times before either of them is done. If by the end William never actually existed and he was just a manifestation of the friendships we made along the way I would not be at all surprised
Finally acknowledging Leia as a sister is great, not because I'm into incest but because it removes the unnecessary ambiguity of having two separate interpretations of their relationship. That's going to clear up the interactions, make the script more sensible. We've already experienced how hard it is to deal with Nika and Nami - we need a clear narrative, or a clear reason in the story that allows the ambiguity.
So if Helen is not Willi and Leia's mom, we have a bunch of scenarios that could easily play out:
- porn tropes with raising best friends children after a car accident. Please no.
- They're adopted from birth and know they're adopted. Hence the tension with Katie. They still call Helen mom. The statement that Leia is Willi's only relative did not say they're not adopted etc. Nothing needs to change other than a few lines of text, just like the patch used to do. For all functional intents Willi sees Helen as his mother. Only some text needs changing for this to happen.
- They're adopted from birth and don't know they're adopted. This would be my preferred option, as there's so many ways those reveals could play out ....but Ocean's already given the reveal away, so this option is borked now. I could just imagine start of ch 4 where Leia and Willi are talking, Leia reveals that Helen isn't their mom, and that kickstarts some plot point. Oh well. Only some text needs changing for this to happen.
- Helen is Wollust's super halfway house matron extraordinaire! She looks after all strays! This is a terrible dodge for no reason considering there's still Willi and Leia's relationship, so this dodge is completely unnecessary, and ultimately meaningless. Far more work, for no reason.
- Last option - Ocean's borked all incest, and Leia's no longer an LI, while Katie and Helen are. This makes no sense though, as the tension with Leia is far too central to the story. Far more work. The fact that Ocean thinks some will be delighted that Leia is Willi's confirmed sister (in a normal AVN world) would mean that LI action is inbound. If Ocean made Leia Willi's sister and removed all LI potential, I can't imagine anyone would be happy about the situation.
Lastly, why has Ocean been so vague with the devlogs? Probably because since he lost the patreon, he's been deciding how to future proof WiaB. He knows he can't mention rework, so maybe he's just doing it without telling?
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- Oct 3, 2019
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You made several points that I find interesting, I do think that Leia will remain LI as it is too central to the story. I like the idea that they don't know they are adopted, at least William, Leia might have discovered and might explain why she has distanced herself from the family. To be frank, is much less the change in itself that bothers me, or the questions that raises from it or even that I still can not make sense of it.Someone should make a game about actual landladies and tenants, non ironically, but hamming up all the tropes well, fourth wall be damned.
...I just realised the spider thing was kinda a replacement for the drugs moment in the original, and that's me facepalming myself for not noticing the retconned connection. I'm hoping we still have a drugs moment like that. I mean, the interactions with Katie and Donna's story line were the two things that carried the old game for me. Katie can still have all that whatever her pixels are called.
This is the thing, incest isn't Ocean's problem here, otherwise, Willi would have no blood relatives. Leia being his sister (and the assumption she is an LI, because of their past etc) is the single most problematic item on the list. If you keep that, what does it matter that Katie is a sister too, or that Helen is his mom, Kat his cousin? I mean Lucas, Uncle Joe and Dylan will never be incest paths for me on any one of my playthroughs, because that's just me.
Finally acknowledging Leia as a sister is great, not because I'm into incest but because it removes the unnecessary ambiguity of having two separate interpretations of their relationship. That's going to clear up the interactions, make the script more sensible. We've already experienced how hard it is to deal with Nika and Nami - we need a clear narrative, or a clear reason in the story that allows the ambiguity.
So if Helen is not Willi and Leia's mom, we have a bunch of scenarios that could easily play out:
- porn tropes with raising best friends children after a car accident. Please no.
- They're adopted from birth and know they're adopted. Hence the tension with Katie. They still call Helen mom. The statement that Leia is Willi's only relative did not say they're not adopted etc. Nothing needs to change other than a few lines of text, just like the patch used to do. For all functional intents Willi sees Helen as his mother. Only some text needs changing for this to happen.
- They're adopted from birth and don't know they're adopted. This would be my preferred option, as there's so many ways those reveals could play out ....but Ocean's already given the reveal away, so this option is borked now. I could just imagine start of ch 4 where Leia and Willi are talking, Leia reveals that Helen isn't their mom, and that kickstarts some plot point. Oh well. Only some text needs changing for this to happen.
- Helen is Wollust's super halfway house matron extraordinaire! She looks after all strays! This is a terrible dodge for no reason considering there's still Willi and Leia's relationship, so this dodge is completely unnecessary, and ultimately meaningless. Far more work, for no reason.
- Last option - Ocean's borked all incest, and Leia's no longer an LI, while Katie and Helen are. This makes no sense though, as the tension with Leia is far too central to the story. Far more work. The fact that Ocean thinks some will be delighted that Leia is Willi's confirmed sister (in a normal AVN world) would mean that LI action is inbound. If Ocean made Leia Willi's sister and removed all LI potential, I can't imagine anyone would be happy about the situation.
Lastly, why has Ocean been so vague with the devlogs? Probably because since he lost the patreon, he's been deciding how to future proof WiaB. He knows he can't mention rework, so maybe he's just doing it without telling?
Sadly I do not have the means to be a support, otherwise I would be. What bothers me is that this is not a insignificant change, this change a lot. And Ocean had the perfect opportunity to do this change in the rework. To do it now... turns everything in shaking grounds. Who is to say that in 5 years time another major change won't come ?
NTR proves to much of trouble and is cut, NTR is no longer optional, incest is brought back. Is his story and he can do as it pleases him and not being a supporter I have really no right to complain, I will take what is offered. But I think it really damage his reputation, that is the big problem that emerges from the change in my eyes.
- Jul 25, 2017
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funny thing is if I were to ever make a AVN I would have landladies / tenants and roommates as just that and part of the story they would have to pay rent and shit tho the landlady wouldn't live with them. Would also make it clear they have different mothers and fathers / families too just to paint the point across even more they aren't related haha.
- Jul 9, 2017
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I'm hearing from people here that Steam, and possibly GoG, don't care about incest themes in adult games. I'll take their word for it. If someone subscribes to Ocean or has his contact info, then perhaps they should make certain Ocean knows this as well. It really feels like he might not be aware and is doing this because he assumes that they have the same policy as Patreon. We saw him confused about getting SG on Steam, so it's at least feasible that he's not fully informed again.
I don't really care about incest as a theme, but I hate it when artists compromise their ideas and stories.
I don't really care about incest as a theme, but I hate it when artists compromise their ideas and stories.
- Dec 24, 2018
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Ocean knows, otherwise he wouldn't state openly that Leia and Willi are related. So the change is maybe to do with how WiaB interacts with SG. At this point everything is speculation. All we know is that Willi's only known relative (so far) is Leia.
Here's at least one render OCean won't need to change, I actually suspect there will be very few changes required, and most will simply be script changes without the need for further renders
- Mar 13, 2021
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Honestly, I can't understand why you folks haven't realised that WIAB is a zombie project by now.
- Dec 5, 2020
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Bruh
If you think Ocean doesn't know and should be informed about this, you can do this yourself. The link to his Discord server is on the first page of the thread, most of the channels there are public, and he appears there regularly. Just read the rules first and don't ping him.
- Jul 9, 2017
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You could be right about how it dovetails into SG, but William and Leia haven't done anything sexual at all in the remake. I'm afraid that isn't proof in itself. I don't think anything has been explicitly stated to have happened yet between the two either.Ocean knows, otherwise he wouldn't state openly that Leia and Willi are related. So the change is maybe to do with how WiaB interacts with SG. At this point everything is speculation. All we know is that Willi's only known relative (so far) is Leia.
Here's at least one render OCean won't need to change, I actually suspect there will be very few changes required, and most will simply be script changes without the need for further renders
View attachment 3849112
Thanks for the tip on how to contact him. I won't do that though, because I don't have first hand knowledge of what people here are claiming to be true. I don't know if Steam and GoG really don't mind about that theme.Bruh
If you think Ocean doesn't know and should be informed about this, you can do this yourself. The link to his Discord server is on the first page of the thread, most of the channels there are public, and he appears there regularly. Just read the rules first and don't ping him.
- Dec 24, 2018
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Sure nothing's happened, but it'd be very strange for her to be topless so often in renders as well as be a main character if she isn't romanceable. And no, you're right, nothing explicitly stated; the only thing we have is Katie's teasing about their relationship, and the flashback. In the pre remake, they'd never done anything in the past other than kissing that we saw either.