Hello everyone, I strongly disagree with the author's decision regarding William's family. I think this is an interesting and well-developed incest story. Now, I see many connecting SG's Nika with William's family. Is there something I've missed?
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- Jul 12, 2020
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Yeah...you missed a lot of talk in the SG thread over Nika and Nami's true parentage.
- Feb 12, 2019
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Disappointing news. My expectations keep getting lower.
- Dec 24, 2018
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Someone should make a game about actual landladies and tenants, non ironically, but hamming up all the tropes well, fourth wall be damned.
Yes...yes I did lmao.
I'll just be.....over here >>>>>>>>>>>>
...I just realised the spider thing was kinda a replacement for the drugs moment in the original, and that's me facepalming myself for not noticing the retconned connection. I'm hoping we still have a drugs moment like that. I mean, the interactions with Katie and Donna's story line were the two things that carried the old game for me. Katie can still have all that whatever her pixels are called.
This is the thing, incest isn't Ocean's problem here, otherwise, Willi would have no blood relatives. Leia being his sister (and the assumption she is an LI, because of their past etc) is the single most problematic item on the list. If you keep that, what does it matter that Katie is a sister too, or that Helen is his mom, Kat his cousin? I mean Lucas, Uncle Joe and Dylan will never be incest paths for me on any one of my playthroughs, because that's just me.Makes no sense to me. If incest is the issue here then why leave the biggest offense which is literally William + Leia?
I don't get it. But I did warn that Ocean is gonna rewrite both game narratives 500 more times before either of them is done. If by the end William never actually existed and he was just a manifestation of the friendships we made along the way I would not be at all surprised
Finally acknowledging Leia as a sister is great, not because I'm into incest but because it removes the unnecessary ambiguity of having two separate interpretations of their relationship. That's going to clear up the interactions, make the script more sensible. We've already experienced how hard it is to deal with Nika and Nami - we need a clear narrative, or a clear reason in the story that allows the ambiguity.
So if Helen is not Willi and Leia's mom, we have a bunch of scenarios that could easily play out:
- porn tropes with raising best friends children after a car accident. Please no.
- They're adopted from birth and know they're adopted. Hence the tension with Katie. They still call Helen mom. The statement that Leia is Willi's only relative did not say they're not adopted etc. Nothing needs to change other than a few lines of text, just like the patch used to do. For all functional intents Willi sees Helen as his mother. Only some text needs changing for this to happen.
- They're adopted from birth and don't know they're adopted. This would be my preferred option, as there's so many ways those reveals could play out ....but Ocean's already given the reveal away, so this option is borked now. I could just imagine start of ch 4 where Leia and Willi are talking, Leia reveals that Helen isn't their mom, and that kickstarts some plot point. Oh well. Only some text needs changing for this to happen.
- Helen is Wollust's super halfway house matron extraordinaire! She looks after all strays! This is a terrible dodge for no reason considering there's still Willi and Leia's relationship, so this dodge is completely unnecessary, and ultimately meaningless. Far more work, for no reason.
- Last option - Ocean's borked all incest, and Leia's no longer an LI, while Katie and Helen are. This makes no sense though, as the tension with Leia is far too central to the story. Far more work. The fact that Ocean thinks some will be delighted that Leia is Willi's confirmed sister (in a normal AVN world) would mean that LI action is inbound. If Ocean made Leia Willi's sister and removed all LI potential, I can't imagine anyone would be happy about the situation.
Lastly, why has Ocean been so vague with the devlogs? Probably because since he lost the patreon, he's been deciding how to future proof WiaB. He knows he can't mention rework, so maybe he's just doing it without telling?
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- Oct 3, 2019
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You made several points that I find interesting, I do think that Leia will remain LI as it is too central to the story. I like the idea that they don't know they are adopted, at least William, Leia might have discovered and might explain why she has distanced herself from the family. To be frank, is much less the change in itself that bothers me, or the questions that raises from it or even that I still can not make sense of it.Someone should make a game about actual landladies and tenants, non ironically, but hamming up all the tropes well, fourth wall be damned.
...I just realised the spider thing was kinda a replacement for the drugs moment in the original, and that's me facepalming myself for not noticing the retconned connection. I'm hoping we still have a drugs moment like that. I mean, the interactions with Katie and Donna's story line were the two things that carried the old game for me. Katie can still have all that whatever her pixels are called.
This is the thing, incest isn't Ocean's problem here, otherwise, Willi would have no blood relatives. Leia being his sister (and the assumption she is an LI, because of their past etc) is the single most problematic item on the list. If you keep that, what does it matter that Katie is a sister too, or that Helen is his mom, Kat his cousin? I mean Lucas, Uncle Joe and Dylan will never be incest paths for me on any one of my playthroughs, because that's just me.
Finally acknowledging Leia as a sister is great, not because I'm into incest but because it removes the unnecessary ambiguity of having two separate interpretations of their relationship. That's going to clear up the interactions, make the script more sensible. We've already experienced how hard it is to deal with Nika and Nami - we need a clear narrative, or a clear reason in the story that allows the ambiguity.
So if Helen is not Willi and Leia's mom, we have a bunch of scenarios that could easily play out:
- porn tropes with raising best friends children after a car accident. Please no.
- They're adopted from birth and know they're adopted. Hence the tension with Katie. They still call Helen mom. The statement that Leia is Willi's only relative did not say they're not adopted etc. Nothing needs to change other than a few lines of text, just like the patch used to do. For all functional intents Willi sees Helen as his mother. Only some text needs changing for this to happen.
- They're adopted from birth and don't know they're adopted. This would be my preferred option, as there's so many ways those reveals could play out ....but Ocean's already given the reveal away, so this option is borked now. I could just imagine start of ch 4 where Leia and Willi are talking, Leia reveals that Helen isn't their mom, and that kickstarts some plot point. Oh well. Only some text needs changing for this to happen.
- Helen is Wollust's super halfway house matron extraordinaire! She looks after all strays! This is a terrible dodge for no reason considering there's still Willi and Leia's relationship, so this dodge is completely unnecessary, and ultimately meaningless. Far more work, for no reason.
- Last option - Ocean's borked all incest, and Leia's no longer an LI, while Katie and Helen are. This makes no sense though, as the tension with Leia is far too central to the story. Far more work. The fact that Ocean thinks some will be delighted that Leia is Willi's confirmed sister (in a normal AVN world) would mean that LI action is inbound. If Ocean made Leia Willi's sister and removed all LI potential, I can't imagine anyone would be happy about the situation.
Lastly, why has Ocean been so vague with the devlogs? Probably because since he lost the patreon, he's been deciding how to future proof WiaB. He knows he can't mention rework, so maybe he's just doing it without telling?
Sadly I do not have the means to be a support, otherwise I would be. What bothers me is that this is not a insignificant change, this change a lot. And Ocean had the perfect opportunity to do this change in the rework. To do it now... turns everything in shaking grounds. Who is to say that in 5 years time another major change won't come ?
NTR proves to much of trouble and is cut, NTR is no longer optional, incest is brought back. Is his story and he can do as it pleases him and not being a supporter I have really no right to complain, I will take what is offered. But I think it really damage his reputation, that is the big problem that emerges from the change in my eyes.
- Jul 25, 2017
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funny thing is if I were to ever make a AVN I would have landladies / tenants and roommates as just that and part of the story they would have to pay rent and shit tho the landlady wouldn't live with them. Would also make it clear they have different mothers and fathers / families too just to paint the point across even more they aren't related haha.
- Jul 9, 2017
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I'm hearing from people here that Steam, and possibly GoG, don't care about incest themes in adult games. I'll take their word for it. If someone subscribes to Ocean or has his contact info, then perhaps they should make certain Ocean knows this as well. It really feels like he might not be aware and is doing this because he assumes that they have the same policy as Patreon. We saw him confused about getting SG on Steam, so it's at least feasible that he's not fully informed again.
I don't really care about incest as a theme, but I hate it when artists compromise their ideas and stories.
I don't really care about incest as a theme, but I hate it when artists compromise their ideas and stories.
- Dec 24, 2018
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Ocean knows, otherwise he wouldn't state openly that Leia and Willi are related. So the change is maybe to do with how WiaB interacts with SG. At this point everything is speculation. All we know is that Willi's only known relative (so far) is Leia.
Here's at least one render OCean won't need to change, I actually suspect there will be very few changes required, and most will simply be script changes without the need for further renders
- Mar 13, 2021
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Honestly, I can't understand why you folks haven't realised that WIAB is a zombie project by now.
- Dec 5, 2020
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Bruh
If you think Ocean doesn't know and should be informed about this, you can do this yourself. The link to his Discord server is on the first page of the thread, most of the channels there are public, and he appears there regularly. Just read the rules first and don't ping him.
- Jul 9, 2017
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You could be right about how it dovetails into SG, but William and Leia haven't done anything sexual at all in the remake. I'm afraid that isn't proof in itself. I don't think anything has been explicitly stated to have happened yet between the two either.Ocean knows, otherwise he wouldn't state openly that Leia and Willi are related. So the change is maybe to do with how WiaB interacts with SG. At this point everything is speculation. All we know is that Willi's only known relative (so far) is Leia.
Here's at least one render OCean won't need to change, I actually suspect there will be very few changes required, and most will simply be script changes without the need for further renders
View attachment 3849112
Thanks for the tip on how to contact him. I won't do that though, because I don't have first hand knowledge of what people here are claiming to be true. I don't know if Steam and GoG really don't mind about that theme.Bruh
If you think Ocean doesn't know and should be informed about this, you can do this yourself. The link to his Discord server is on the first page of the thread, most of the channels there are public, and he appears there regularly. Just read the rules first and don't ping him.
- Dec 24, 2018
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Sure nothing's happened, but it'd be very strange for her to be topless so often in renders as well as be a main character if she isn't romanceable. And no, you're right, nothing explicitly stated; the only thing we have is Katie's teasing about their relationship, and the flashback. In the pre remake, they'd never done anything in the past other than kissing that we saw either.
- Sep 3, 2020
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Yes he knows all that, but he also needs to keep SG patreon and SS has rewritten his ToS, with which you can expect in the future that SS will behave like Patreon (in 2018 patreon still didn't have the bans and they were lax when they put them in and then fell to the pressure of pay pal, reaching today where their crusade is total).
- Jun 7, 2019
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I agree with the comments above that the decision to remove blood ties other than Leia may be wrong and in the long run may not only not add popularity to some characters, but also cause harm. Obviously, Steam does not have any problems with incest. The problem here is rather that the author wants to create a more realistic story and it is obvious that the number of love lines with so many relatives in such a setting is fantasy.
As already have been written above, perhaps the best solution would be to transfer the love lines to other characters. The same story with Nojiko from SG perfectly shows that such characters can easily coexist without pornography, while perfectly complementing the plot. There’s just no need to create any *gray * zone. So the relationship between Helen, Scarlet, Katerina, etc. could simply be left as ordinary normal relationships. Well, what the author chose will not necessarily add popularity, but, for example, it can harm the same Keti.Keti and Leia are a little similar in personality to Nami from SG. So, Nami is undoubtedly my favorite character, but do not forget her character and behavior that I personally forgive precisely because of the connection with MC. As they say, what is allowed to Jupiter is not allowed to the bull. And I’m not sure that Katie will be interesting to me in the future, given her character and now the fact that she is not a sister not only as a love interest, but also just a friend.
As already have been written above, perhaps the best solution would be to transfer the love lines to other characters. The same story with Nojiko from SG perfectly shows that such characters can easily coexist without pornography, while perfectly complementing the plot. There’s just no need to create any *gray * zone. So the relationship between Helen, Scarlet, Katerina, etc. could simply be left as ordinary normal relationships. Well, what the author chose will not necessarily add popularity, but, for example, it can harm the same Keti.Keti and Leia are a little similar in personality to Nami from SG. So, Nami is undoubtedly my favorite character, but do not forget her character and behavior that I personally forgive precisely because of the connection with MC. As they say, what is allowed to Jupiter is not allowed to the bull. And I’m not sure that Katie will be interesting to me in the future, given her character and now the fact that she is not a sister not only as a love interest, but also just a friend.
- Sep 3, 2020
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Obviously Katie is the character I think about the most, not only because she is my favorite, but because it would twist her story and her motivations too much. Still, there are too many questions that are still unanswered and won't be answered until we get the next up date, or even then, as the real repercussions will come in the second season, a long time from now.
- Dec 24, 2018
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As far as the statement went, my understanding is not that there are no family/blood relationships any more, simply that Willi and Leia are not Zanes by blood. Scarlet is still Helen's sister, Joe is still Kat and Lucas' dad. Presumably Katie is Helen's daughter, but we will have to see. Ocean deciding that Willi is only related to Leia changes nothing of the other relationships between other characters, only between other characters and Willi. This might be for the crossover into SG to be simpler (I assume that's what Ocean meant by a big problem in season 2, unless he's actuall working on season 2 WiaB in part already, which I find hard to believe), or it might just be future proofing.
Either way, we have fewer undefined relationships than we had a week ago.
- Sep 3, 2020
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Hey! you believed Ocean when he said he had SG written all the way to the end and now you can't believe he has only 4 chapters ahead in WIAB.... Shame on you.
- Mar 10, 2024
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So did patreon rules fuck up potentially epic stories? Cause for me I don't care if they change the relationship of Will and Leia I am still having a Joe Dirt situation. I'm fucking my sister
- Dec 24, 2018
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Oh no, I do believe he's finished it ....and that he keeps tinkering with it. I mean, 4 years ago his world was different, different rules applied, different expectations etc. If he DOESN'T change the story to be authentic to who he is now as a writer, I think we'd get a very different story with guns and blanks, or creepy ninja Miru and raccoon hair hero. But I do miss the far more casual swearing of the older styleHey! you believed Ocean when he said he had SG written all the way to the end and now you can't believe he has only 4 chapters ahead in WIAB.... Shame on you.
So, what I mean is that I can't believe he is currently working on Season 2 WiaB problems when surely there are still plenty of season 1 wiab problems waiting in the cue first. based on there being fewer season and chapters in WiaB, we'll hit those season 1 issues even after Ocean puts it on Steam for early access.
Only reason I wonder is because Ocean's working on SG S2 at the same time - I think some of the problems he's trying to circumvent might have an impact there.