VN Ren'Py Where It All Began [Ch. 3 Full] [Oceanlab]

[BobTheDuck]

I agree with you, just want to.point out some thoughts Ocean could have achieved the same cohesion to story by confirming that they are family, and now with out Patreon this should not be a problem. Ocean gave us two reason for the change, the first is a cohesive story for the Steam the other is that some relationship did not felt natural.

When I think about it, two questions come to mind The change was made because Ocean wants a story that is cohesive and does not infringe TOS, changing Leia later on is more easy than change all the relationship, or the change was made because Ocean was unsatisfied with the story ?

the first one I can relate, the later one raises others questions. That I don't think paints him in a good light.

Those are my thoughts too. However, if we treat the confirmation of Leia and Willi as relatives as true, then the compliance is not about WiaB as standalone, it has to be about the way the stories interact with characters moving forward. Because if WiaB has Willi and Leia related, then why not also Katie? Helen? If one, there is no reason internal to WiaB not to do all.

For the relationships to feel forced to Ocean potential means he's not enjoying trying to write those paths. Today's Ocean might find it less appealing. Or to do some of the NTR he has planned, it just became too cumbersome to write - multiple taboos at the same time are a challenge to make authentic. I personally would hate to see a render where there's the lines "this is wrong, but you're filling me up so good!" because no one says that outside of porn. If Ocean plans of making the relations feel natural, and there's a gradual slide into more precarious relationships via NTR, then if he doesn't feel like the dialogue is authentic, he's not going to be proud of the release. Today me regrets at least 40% of what 4 years ago me said... memory is fickle and people change. I don't thing growth as a writer paints them in a bad light. Fear of consequences can cripple a story though, and it's really hard to judge the reasons,

I'd rather Ocean writes what he can commit to rather than try to force something he considers lame or stitled writing. If he's not enjoying or believing what he's doing, there's far less chance we will.

At the moment we're just trying to make sense of the tiniest scrap of info without any value of the context though, Ch4 will be revealing as to whether this was a good change or not. I'm all for devs being self aware enough to not paint themselves into a corner, but the danger for Ocean is overthinking, precisely because he'll change personally through growth over then next 5 years, 10 years etc. and it's always going to be a trap for him to overthink yesterdays work by today's opinions.

 

[LHDLLB]

Those are my thoughts too. However, if we treat the confirmation of Leia and Willi as relatives as true, then the compliance is not about WiaB as standalone, it has to be about the way the stories interact with characters moving forward. Because if WiaB has Willi and Leia related, then why not also Katie? Helen? If one, there is no reason internal to WiaB not to do all.

For the relationships to feel forced to Ocean potential means he's not enjoying trying to write those paths. Today's Ocean might find it less appealing. Or to do some of the NTR he has planned, it just became too cumbersome to write - multiple taboos at the same time are a challenge to make authentic. I personally would hate to see a render where there's the lines "this is wrong, but you're filling me up so good!" because no one says that outside of porn. If Ocean plans of making the relations feel natural, and there's a gradual slide into more precarious relationships via NTR, then if he doesn't feel like the dialogue is authentic, he's not going to be proud of the release. Today me regrets at least 40% of what 4 years ago me said... memory is fickle and people change. I don't thing growth as a writer paints them in a bad light. Fear of consequences can cripple a story though, and it's really hard to judge the reasons,

I'd rather Ocean writes what he can commit to rather than try to force something he considers lame or stitled writing. If he's not enjoying or believing what he's doing, there's far less chance we will.

At the moment we're just trying to make sense of the tiniest scrap of info without any value of the context though, Ch4 will be revealing as to whether this was a good change or not. I'm all for devs being self aware enough to not paint themselves into a corner, but the danger for Ocean is overthinking, precisely because he'll change personally through growth over then next 5 years, 10 years etc. and it's always going to be a trap for him to overthink yesterdays work by today's opinions.

Again I agree with you. I understand Ocean growing as a person and as a writer, but at some point he will need to settle for something, both of his projects will not be finished in a 10 years time and the ambiton of it is one of the reasons that I like it. But if every time he finds something too cumberstone to write he changes something, then his projetcs trully will never be done.

As I have said, is not it having less incest bothers me, is the precedent that it opens that worries me. I will not judge it until I have played and I trust that it will be for the better.
And just like you have said, we know very little and don't have the context. Right now I am chosen to believe that Ocean is playing safe, was a decision made when WiaB still had a Patreon page and he do not see the need to change. If it happens to make some things easyer down the line is just a bonus. Personally, I like this interpretation a lot more than Ocean changing his mind once again and the game in a significant way.

 

[Ottoeight]

The shit with SG is not fault of Steam, that was a Ocean´s decision, first y most important for the music and second he tries to fit the game in the pegi16 to sell it around the world wo restriction.

Well, everybody's got his/her/its/thems main priorities...

and I think Ocean's main priorities are:

1) his games' soundtrack music;

2) taxation in Germany.

 

[alanrock]

Ocean's main project is ...

Spoiler

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[rudy007]

It seams we have more drama around the game(s) then in the game. To date we had "totally not MC's sister" aka roommate, no we have "former neighbor's roommate's friend". Is Steam go now (or in near future) full Patreon rampage and devs know it or devs got burned and now they fear Steam too?

 

[Turret]

Steam is a lot less strict than Patreon.
Steam only really cares about "underage", high school imagery, copyrighted content, and bestiality.
Basically, anything else, incest, rape, blackmail (all things Patreon doesn't allow) etc., they do not care about, at all.

For all it´s many flaws (as a German I know what I talk about) Steam is less strict when it comes to sex stuff. The thing that they geoblock nations like Germany is because of the pictures/previews and their laughable age verification, not the story. They fear allegations with underage customers seeing "dirty" pics like the devil does holy water.
That it is not the sex can be seen in several AVNs which still are buyable with German steam. One has a brother-sister couple as the main pairing (and it is made very clear in the story that you are banging/in love with your brother or sister), but as the two are working/at university and there is a free 18+ patch from the devs site, this game is sold without fuss.

But coming back to the WIAB, I think Ocean is making a serious mistake with making Willi/Leia adopted. Unless he has a MAJOR bang situation to be revealed, making the Twins an entity of their own is destroying a lot of the story logic/hints so far.
Willi´s currently unknown, but estimated reasons for fleeing Wollust are called into doubt more than they were before. In addition, if it is the incest angle, why at all. It is quite clear that most of the few friends Willi and Leia had knew or at least suspected that something more was going on between the twins. (In old WIAB e.g. Zoey was actually surprised that not more had happened and she was also eager to get Willi and Leia to reconcil and finally do the deed and even new Zoey seems to be quite certain what went on between the twins)

 

[Icekatana]

Sure nothing's happened, but it'd be very strange for her to be topless so often in renders as well as be a main character if she isn't romanceable. And no, you're right, nothing explicitly stated; the only thing we have is Katie's teasing about their relationship, and the flashback. In the pre remake, they'd never done anything in the past other than kissing that we saw either.

I'm really just playing devil's advocate. It's very likely that Leia will be romanceable and we know, from before the remake, that she and William had a past. I just don't think we can assume anything until the dust settles. If he rewrites everything so that Leia isn't an LI, then we'll know that Ocean changed it because he was scared of incest repercussions. Unfortunately, by then, the damage will already have been done.

I think Ocean underestimates the damage fiddling with the story does. We are already getting to know these people in WiAB and SG and when things get turned over, it doesn't feel great. People get attached, you know?

 

[Doomyk]

I'm really just playing devil's advocate. It's very likely that Leia will be romanceable and we know, from before the remake, that she and William had a past. I just don't think we can assume anything until the dust settles. If he rewrites everything so that Leia isn't an LI, then we'll know that Ocean changed it because he was scared of incest repercussions. Unfortunately, by then, the damage will already have been done.

I think Ocean underestimates the damage fiddling with the story does. We are already getting to know these people in WiAB and SG and when things get turned over, it doesn't feel great. People get attached, you know?

It would not be a wise decision to remove one of the most popular characters from LI. Imagine if Bella, Nami or Sasha were removed from SG. Too much damage.

 

[Tremonia]

It seams we have more drama around the game(s) then in the game.

Not really. The most players don't have problems with how the things are. It's just a loud minority. They can't whine on Ocean's Discord and on Reddit. So they let their mimimi out on the last refugium on the net where more than five people talking about AVN's: F95. You can summarize all the whine in one big yap: "Don't like what I pretend to not like because I covet the dev for his success with doing the things on his own way without including my personal views, fetishes, and kinks!" It's pathetic but it's also funny to watch. They're wiriting against windmills. The Steam sales are high, the downloads here are high, the ratings everywhere are high, many Patreons, but they're the only ones who knows the truth: it all wents to shit. Soon. Very soon. Yeah, yeah, they said this since I've heard from Ocean's work the first time a view years ago.

 

[zandalari]

Not really. The most players don't have problems with how the things are. It's just a loud minority. They can't whine on Ocean's Discord and on Reddit. So they let their mimimi out on the last refugium on the net where more than five people talking about AVN's: F95. You can summarize all the whine in one big yap: "Don't like what I pretend to not like because I covet the dev for his success with doing the things on his own way without including my personal views, fetishes, and kinks!" It's pathetic but it's also funny to watch. They're wiriting against windmills. The Steam sales are high, the downloads here are high, the ratings everywhere are high, many Patreons, but they're the only ones who knows the truth: it all wents to shit. Soon. Very soon. Yeah, yeah, they said this since I've heard from Ocean's work the first time a view years ago.

What a poor attempt at generalizing all the issues voiced under one umbrella. Couldn't find a common theme either due to lack of understanding or laziness and opted for a random "they jelly cuz they ain't him".

This is the main difference between a fan and a sycophant. The fans like the work but are concerned where it is going, especially for a creator who has demonstrated to have issues not only to sticking to his own vision, but also defining what that vision even is. All things that should rightfully concern anyone who would like to see his games finished before the century ends.

A sycophant doesn't care and turns it into some weird attempt at a personal vendetta towards the developer. He's at the center of the circle jerk that says everything is fine, everyone who voices any concern is wrong and a troll, etc. A little clique of weirdoes stewing in their own vomit.

 

[Nadinengt]

It said that it was last updated last week does anyone know what update that is?

Chapter 3 full was released since January right? Or was I misremembering?

 

[Maviarab]

Miru says you are his best friend, and she says yea friend.

You completely and utterly missed her meaning behind that statement....

You're focusing everything purely on the sexual scenes, when I haven't even talked about it.
How they approach the different characters, how they relate to each other in a common chat, the familiarity, the complicity the jokes that without patching up lose their funniness. An incest story is not just about the sex scenes.
As if to affirm this, patreon banned this game for incest, with no sexual scenes other than those of Miru.

I agree with you, just want to.point out some thoughts Ocean could have achieved the same cohesion to story by confirming that they are family, and now with out Patreon this should not be a problem. Ocean gave us two reason for the change, the first is a cohesive story for the Steam the other is that some relationship did not felt natural.

When I think about it, two questions come to mind The change was made because Ocean wants a story that is cohesive and does not infringe TOS, changing Leia later on is more easy than change all the relationship, or the change was made because Ocean was unsatisfied with the story ?

the first one I can relate, the later one raises others questions. That I don't think paints him in a good light.

I'm really just playing devil's advocate. It's very likely that Leia will be romanceable and we know, from before the remake, that she and William had a past. I just don't think we can assume anything until the dust settles. If he rewrites everything so that Leia isn't an LI, then we'll know that Ocean changed it because he was scared of incest repercussions. Unfortunately, by then, the damage will already have been done.

I think Ocean underestimates the damage fiddling with the story does. We are already getting to know these people in WiAB and SG and when things get turned over, it doesn't feel great. People get attached, you know?

What a poor attempt at generalizing all the issues voiced under one umbrella. Couldn't find a common theme either due to lack of understanding or laziness and opted for a random "they jelly cuz they ain't him".

This is the main difference between a fan and a sycophant. The fans like the work but are concerned where it is going, especially for a creator who has demonstrated to have issues not only to sticking to his own vision, but also defining what that vision even is. All things that should rightfully concern anyone who would like to see his games finished before the century ends.

A sycophant doesn't care and turns it into some weird attempt at a personal vendetta towards the developer. He's at the center of the circle jerk that says everything is fine, everyone who voices any concern is wrong and a troll, etc. A little clique of weirdoes stewing in their own vomit.

Out of reactions so...

Also nothing further to add without reitering old ground and saying the same thing.

 

[RNasc4444]

The most players don't have problems with how the things are. It's just a loud minority.

FUCKING LOL

They can't whine on Ocean's Discord and on Reddit. So they let their mimimi out on the last refugium on the net where more than five people talking about AVN's: F95.

Oh noooo! What do you mean people can't voice their opinions in heavily moderated echo chambers? Say it ain't soooo...

It's pathetic but it's also funny to watch.

Gotta agree on this one! Watching worthless ball lickers get their jimmies rustled on a public forum is a major source of entertainment for me.

Crazy idea but maybe you should spend more time in those echo chambers and less on F95? Keep living in that delusional bubble of yours. Prioritize your mental health!

 

[Rajesh Ram]

When Is the exact date update coming?

 

[Tremonia]

What do you mean people can't voice their opinions in heavily moderated echo chambers?

No. I didn't said that. That's what you think it is and that says a lot about your ability to understand other POV's in this topic. In short: it makes no sense to discuss this topic with you. We would only walk in circles around it and that's a waste of time for both of us.

When Is the exact date update coming?

Mai 35th, 1312 in Álfar calendar

 

[DaffyDuck_Wiz]

When Is the exact date update coming?

It's a mystery, no one knows...

 

[yossa999]

A little clique of weirdoes stewing in their own vomit.

worthless ball lickers get their jimmies rustled on a public forum

Phew, for a moment I almost forgot I was reading constructive criticism. Now I feel at home again.

Let's get back to watching the show.

 

[RNasc4444]

Phew, for a moment I almost forgot I was reading constructive criticism. Now I feel at home again.

Let's get back to watching the show.

Your reading comprehension abilities are off the charts as usual

Was I, anywhere on that post, providing any sort of criticism related to the game? I was not. You can keep trying to gacha me, if I slip please make sure to point it out and I'll be the first to congratulate you, apologise and edit my post. You can disgree all you want but I do wholeheartedly believe that my criticism in serious posts is fair and constructive.

 

[sorco2003]

Phew, for a moment I almost forgot I was reading constructive criticism. Now I feel at home again.

Let's get back to watching the show.

This time I'm going to be the troll.... So siding with the newcomer who attacks everyone by generalizing?

 

[Jafo]

What a poor attempt at generalizing all the issues voiced under one umbrella. Couldn't find a common theme either due to lack of understanding or laziness and opted for a random "they jelly cuz they ain't him".

This is the main difference between a fan and a sycophant. The fans like the work but are concerned where it is going, especially for a creator who has demonstrated to have issues not only to sticking to his own vision, but also defining what that vision even is. All things that should rightfully concern anyone who would like to see his games finished before the century ends.

A sycophant doesn't care and turns it into some weird attempt at a personal vendetta towards the developer. He's at the center of the circle jerk that says everything is fine, everyone who voices any concern is wrong and a troll, etc. A little clique of weirdoes stewing in their own vomit.

This is far under the belt. Your so called sycophant can also be a person who likes the game "as is" and is not trying by having the biggest mouth to let the dev change the game in THEIR likings. They want several elements to be implemented and start whining. Not realising that a dev, if he is steady enough, will wipe his ass off with all those big mouths.

Just try to see it from different angles please. Just play the game and if you don't like it just press delete on you SSD. So I totally agree with Tremonia. But that will make me also a sycophant. Well do what you want. People can disagree.