VN Ren'Py Where It All Began [Ch. 3 Full] [Oceanlab]

[yossa999]

Your reading comprehension abilities are off the charts as usual

Was I, anywhere on that post, providing any sort of criticism related to the game? I was not. You can keep trying to gacha me, if I slip please make sure to point it out and I'll be the first to congratulate you, apologise and edit my post. You can disgree all you want but I do wholeheartedly believe that my criticism in serious posts is fair and constructive.

Oh, you little weasel

Do you think that my lack of reading comprehension prevents me from remembering more than the last post in a thread?
It all started with criticism of Ocean’s latest decision to change something in the Zanes’ relationship tree, then you guys came up with ideas about what Ocean was going to change (since he didn’t really explain anything), you guys figured out who would adopt whom. You even composed a whole sarcastic fairy tale about adoption.

And then Tremonia dared to disagree and noted that most players would likely have no problem with the possible changes.
Which I don't entirely agree with, it's right, most new players won't even notice. Many regular AVN players don't care because from the bunch of other AVNs we're already trained to read "landlady/roommate" the way they're supposed to read in the AVN world. But the hardcore WiAB oldtimers would probably be disappointed, because they liked the game before the remake. They are against any changes and still have not accepted Ocean’s words that it is better to forget about the old WiAB, because it's irrelevant to the new version.

So, your rebellious, critical heart couldn't handle the fact that someone disagreed with the critics, and you ended the conversation as any true constructive critic does: they end any discussion with a mention of sucking, licking or anal sex. Bravo.

As for looking for quotes, proofs or anything else in your posts that you want me to find, do I need it? I'm just here to have my fun, so I guess I'll skip that part.

 

[RNasc4444]

Oh, you little weasel

Do you think that my lack of reading comprehension prevents me from remembering more than the last post in a thread?
It all started with criticism of Ocean’s latest decision to change something in the Zanes’ relationship tree, then you guys came up with ideas about what Ocean was going to change (since he didn’t really explain anything), you guys figured out who would adopt whom. You even composed a whole sarcastic fairy tale about adoption.

And then Tremonia dared to disagree and noted that most players would likely have no problem with the possible changes.
Which I don't entirely agree with, it's right, most new players won't even notice. Many regular AVN players don't care because from the bunch of other AVNs we're already trained to read "landlady/roommate" the way they're supposed to read in the AVN world. But the hardcore WiAB oldtimers would probably be disappointed, because they liked the game before the remake. They are against any changes and still have not accepted Ocean’s words that it is better to forget about the old WiAB, because it's irrelevant to the new version.

So, your rebellious, critical heart couldn't handle the fact that someone disagreed with the critics, and you ended the conversation as any true constructive critic does: they end any discussion with a mention of sucking, licking or anal sex. Bravo.

As for looking for quotes, proofs or anything else in your posts that you want me to find, do I need it? I'm just here to have my fun, so I guess I'll skip that part.

Buddy...what?!?!?!

Please read my original post again. Your opinion on the matter isn't too far from my own.

I was being entirely serious though. And I've been one of the biggest haters of Oceans reworks for fucking years.

Like Ocean mentioned in the devlog some people are going to be bothered by the changes and others won't. Personally I'm on the camp of "If I need a lobotomy to enjoy a story, it's probably not a very good story". I know it's controversial but I need some sense, structure and logic in my stories in order to enjoy them. Even AVN's!!! If I wanted to beat my meat I'd just go with video format

I've never had issues with WiAB, old or new, in this regard but SG is an entirely different beast. I've tried to play without the patch and I refuse to believe there is a single soul out here capable of critical thinking and reading comprehension that thinks that shit makes any sort of sense. Even if you disregard all "Evil Modder" theories, the story was clearly written one way and is utterly devoid of logic if it tries to veer in another direction.

So with all due respect to people like @yossa999, even if you can somehow make sense of a story when it changes that much, even if you think replacing words likes "sister" with "friend" magically makes it all fall into place, ignoring all sorts of previously provided context, doesn't mean everyone else can.

But I'm getting ahead of myself. Let's see how Ocean tackles this. I'd be lying if I said I think it's gonna work when the entire game so far is predicated on Katie being Leia and Willie's sister, Dylan being their father and Helen their mother. That also applies to the rest of the family.

I even tagged you in my post.

Please for the love of God re-read it. My entire take is literally "I am skeptical this is gonna work out but let's see how it goes".

You and the other user apparently just got triggered because of a post I made in jest about the changes. I was never that critical of WiAB because I don't care about it as much as I do SG.

 

[yossa999]

Buddy...what?!?!?!

Please read my original post again. Your opinion on the matter isn't too far from my own.


I even tagged you in my post.

Please for the love of God re-read it. My entire take is literally "I am skeptical this is gonna work out but let's see how it goes".

You and the other user apparently just got triggered because of a post I made in jest about the changes. I was never that critical of WiAB because I don't care about it as much as I do SG.

You know, I never argued that many of your takes are logical and justified and that often I agree with you. Sometimes, although I do not agree with you, I do not think that I am objectively right, but rather we have different personal preferences. And I have nothing against jests about Ocean and the games, unless it’s the hundredth repetition of “I will bequeath the third season to my grandchildren before I die” or "see you in 20xx."

But sometimes you let your shitty side take over, and then the dev's dickriders pop out of your mouth and start circlejerking around in the echo chamber of worthless ball lickers and dev's fellatio enthusiasts. I don’t know, maybe this is the custom in the Zone, but for me it devalues the constructive message of your posts.

On the other hand, I have noticed that very often those who criticize games or developers and their decisions are very fragile and vulnerable and are quick to accuse those who disagree with them of providing sexual favors to the developers. I have no idea where they are coming from with this, perhaps due to a traumatic personal experience. And they usually call it constructive criticism. That's why I call them constructive critics and I notice this pattern in your last posts. Although you did not criticize, but were only skeptical.

As for possible changes in WiAB, although I’m not skeptical about them, I agree with you, let's see how it goes, there’s not even anything to discuss yet due to the lack of a subject for discussion

 

[alanrock]

Guys stop fighting. Let's come together to worship Bella and swing Miru.

 

[yossa999]

Guys stop fighting. Let's come together to worship Bella and swing Miru.

 

[Maviarab]

But the hardcore WiAB oldtimers would probably be disappointed, because they liked the game before the remake.

I'm hardcore!!!

Spoiler: Spaceballs: The VN! (the kids love this)

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

 

[RNasc4444]

You know, I never argued that many of your takes are logical and justified and that often I agree with you. Sometimes, although I do not agree with you, I do not think that I am objectively right, but rather we have different personal preferences. And I have nothing against jests about Ocean and the games, unless it’s the hundredth repetition of “I will bequeath the third season to my grandchildren before I die” or "see you in 20xx."

But sometimes you let your shitty side take over, and then the dev's dickriders pop out of your mouth and start circlejerking around in the echo chamber of worthless ball lickers and dev's fellatio enthusiasts. I don’t know, maybe this is the custom in the Zone, but for me it devalues the constructive message of your posts.

On the other hand, I have noticed that very often those who criticize games or developers and their decisions are very fragile and vulnerable and are quick to accuse those who disagree with them of providing sexual favors to the developers. I have no idea where they are coming from with this, perhaps due to a traumatic personal experience. And they usually call it constructive criticism. That's why I call them constructive critics and I notice this pattern in your last posts. Although you did not criticize, but were only skeptical.

As for possible changes in WiAB, although I’m not skeptical about them, I agree with you, let's see how it goes, there’s not even anything to discuss yet due to the lack of a subject for discussion

Fair. Absolutely fair.

I won't deny that the type of posts like the one Tremonia made, get me heated and I feel the need to reply in a matter I shouldn't. It's fine that we disagree on a lot of matters, that doesn't mean we can't have a civil discussion. But I take offense to being called a weasel, a troll or a hater. I don't bash games or devs for the fuck of it.

In the end you're right. I'll keep trying to tone down the nastyness of my replies so that they don't compromise my arguments.

 

[Maviarab]

In the end you're right. I'll keep trying to tone down the nastyness of my replies so that they don't compromise my arguments.

I feel your struggle Nasc

 

[alanrock]

I'll keep trying to tone down the nastyness of my replies so that they don't compromise my arguments.

 

[Versace217]

On one side I understand that because of Patreon's TOS, Ocean needs to change the relationships but on the other hand, I enjoyed WIAB "because" it had incest and other familial relationships in it. Changing it now just removes the major flavor it has because it changes the dynamics of not just the immediate family but also the extended family.

It would beg the question why the other family members are so invested in this. As the MC was directly related to the family, it made sense because he was a part of them, but now it will just feel artificial and forced. Even the whole step-dad/son interaction will now feel awkward at best.

I think a solution to the Patreon's stupid TOS is to make the relationships generic (Landlord, etc), then implement a trigger (like asking what you would like the relationship to be) which would automatically change the relationships of everyone. I believe that is one loophole that devs can use to avoid the TOS under the pretext having of generic relationships.

 

[Maviarab]

On one side I understand that because of Patreon's TOS, Ocean needs to change the relationships

This isn't on Patreon anymore (has not been for weeks now) and Steam doesn't care either way about the subject....but even if all that was true and relevant, why keep Leia as his sister?

 

[Zeniks1895]

This isn't on Patreon anymore (has not been for weeks now) and Steam doesn't care either way about the subject....but even if all that was true and relevant, why keep Leia as his sister?

This is all very strange. Who are these changes aimed at? On the one hand those people who play the non-patched version won't like it since Leia is now a sister and the rest of the “non-family” is now adopted family, which in the eyes of such people is still incest. On the other hand those people who play the patched version will not like it because instead of a normal family we now have a stepadoptedlandlady bullshit. Unfortunately Ocean didn't bother to clarify what was behind his controversial decision in his dev log.

 

[Maviarab]

This is all very strange. Who are these changes aimed at? On the one hand those people who play the non-patched version won't like it since Leia is now a sister and the rest of the “non-family” is now adopted family, which in the eyes of such people is still incest. On the other hand those people who play the patched version will not like it because instead of a normal family we now have a stepadoptedlandlady bullshit. Unfortunately Ocean didn't bother to clarify what was behind his controversial decision in his dev log.

*shrugs*...right now, your guess is as good as anyone's.

 

[txe320]

This is all very strange. Who are these changes aimed at? On the one hand those people who play the non-patched version won't like it since Leia is now a sister and the rest of the “non-family” is now adopted family, which in the eyes of such people is still incest. On the other hand those people who play the patched version will not like it because instead of a normal family we now have a stepadoptedlandlady bullshit. Unfortunately Ocean didn't bother to clarify what was behind his controversial decision in his dev log.

Simply a guess, but right now I think he just have "another story" with the same people in mind for the game and that's why he's redoing it.

 

[LHDLLB]

This isn't on Patreon anymore (has not been for weeks now) and Steam doesn't care either way about the subject....but even if all that was true and relevant, why keep Leia as his sister?

If I Was to guess, probably because Leia storyline does not works otherwise. Helen, Katie, Kat Ocean believe works -better ?- as non-incetuous relationships.And later on if need be is a lot more easier to change only Leia script then the whole game. So far this is the reasoning that I arrived.

Unfortunately Ocean didn't bother to clarify what was behind his controversial decision in his dev log.

I think would be better have he explained a little more, maybe in another devlog, but in the end, if the patrons are satisfied he does not have a reason to.

Or maybe he just not want to spoiler more than alredy had and will let players diescover when chapther 4 is lauch

 

[SonsOfLiberty]

It said that it was last updated last week does anyone know what update that is?

Chapter 3 full was released since January right? Or was I misremembering?

The "thread" was updated, yes, either to remove dead links and add ones that work, or add a mod/guide/etc link, and so on.

Source?

All the incest, rape, blackmail and so on games that are on Steam? The same ones that are have gotten dev's banned on Patreon.

Again, Steam cares about underage content, content that says high school (circles back to point 1), bestiality, and copy righted work, like music/movie/posters in said game.

 

[BobTheDuck]

Why laugh emoji?

I'm not speaking for the people who reacted, but you've asked this in the middle of a heated debate about a major writing change to the story that the dev dropped on everyone unexpectedly. People that are laughing at you probably have decided the change is bad.

To answer your question, I find this to be the more insteresting of Ocean's two stories, but I like both more than I like 90% of the games on this site.

 

[John972]

Source?

I think people miss the point.

Just because Steam or any other third-party provider "doesn't care either way about the subject..." [of incest] now, doesn't mean it will stay that way in the future.

No one can predict what will happen, but lets see if the declarations about Steam age well or age like milk...

 

[Ali ibn Hassan]

, why keep Leia as his sister?

'Cause they're twins?

Maybe a different family situation in WIAB will prevent complications in family related relationships in SG.
SG's still on pattreon!

Possible Willy/Leiah offspring may not be LIs in SG, while Will's other widely spread oats may well be.

I think Ocean is trying to keep SG ic free but WIAB's still open to interfamily coitus.

Find it hard to understand the different avenues some have in the arguments on difference between adopted/biological family ties.
The ones that fed and raised you from birth are, in my very honest opinion, no different from someone that raised, fed and wiped your behind from a very young age.
They're still mum and dad no matter what.

 

[Dr.TSoni]

'Cause they're twins?

Maybe a different family situation in WIAB will prevent complications in family related relationships in SG.
SG's still on pattreon!

Possible Willy/Leiah offspring may not be LIs in SG, while Will's other widely spread oats may well be.

I think Ocean is trying to keep SG ic free but WIAB's still open to interfamily coitus.

Find it hard to understand the different avenues some have in the arguments on difference between adopted/biological family ties.
The ones that fed and raised you from birth are, in my very honest opinion, no different from someone that raised, fed and wiped your behind from a very young age.
They're still mum and dad no matter what.

I agree with you on the reason, but on the other hand Ocean keep dancing to that tune.
Let's assume that Nika or Nami or both are William and Katie's offspring, this would also create problems for him.
Also still looking at SG the problem in the relationship between Nika and Nami makes no sense without an adoptive or blood bond (which the game refuses to mention)