VN Ren'Py Where It All Began [Ch. 3 Full] [Oceanlab]

[BobTheDuck]

To be honest, if we are guessing and trying to assume his reasons, the only, only logical assumption I can come to (unfortunately) is:

Leia will no longer be a LI. What may or may not have happened in the past, is in the past and despite anger, resentment, conflicting emotions, deep love...that's where it will stay. It's the only, single way Ocean can future proof both stories and keep them 'clean'....

And despite Katie being my fave, if that actually is the case, I'll be done with both (as I only follow SG due to this, if this didn't exist, SG just isn't interesting enough to me as a VN to keep following it).

I guess at very least, this question will be answered pretty obviously by Ch4 with their interactions at Leia's home. I have the feeling that he'll keep Leia as a LI, because he assumes it'll make some people happy that she's his sister. I'm not sure Ocean's naive enough to think people were upset just because they couldn't work out what 'old friend' meant.

In no case (neither in the current canon, nor in this crazy theory) does the MC know his parents (there was something about a voice... but it's nothing in stone for now), so why should he recognize a relative?

The thing about the voice was Nika telling whoever he walks with in Ch4.5 that he doesn't know if it's a dream, but he remembers his mother's voice reading a book about the stars to him:

Spoiler: Walk script

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But that unreliable NIka memory:

Spoiler: Talking with Maja

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Since we are going down that rabbit hole of "Nika said his parents are dead" not being entirely true for whatever reason...

Given the complicated relationships in the Zane background story, it's entirely possible that some Zane's were estranged from each other. And therefore it's not entirely unreasonable if "William's son" wouldn't recognize his Katie, especially when at least half a decade has passed since they've last met.

I'm not saying Nika is William's son. I'm saying there isn't enough enough concrete proof one way or another.

The two pertinent quotes from Nika are above, in spoliers, plus this one from the start. Nika at least gives the same age twice. So even if someone lied, he's been raised as an orphan from the age of 3. So 15 years of bad memory (other than Summer), doesn't remember their faces, and only thinks he has heard his mother's voice, doesn't know for sure. THe quote below gives more credence than what he said to Maja, as it's his expositional "break the fourth wall to set the scene" internal monologue, and he has no reason to lie, or hide the situation. But he remembers an uncle who taught him basketball. While he was living with Noji.

Spoiler: Start of the game

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[sorco2003]

I guess at very least, this question will be answered pretty obviously by Ch4 with their interactions at Leia's home. I have the feeling that he'll keep Leia as a LI, because he assumes it'll make some people happy that she's his sister. I'm not sure Ocean's naive enough to think people were upset just because they couldn't work out what 'old friend' meant.

As every time Ocean throws a smoke bomb, it's all so vague that it can be interpreted in many ways...

* fans of incest stories would be upset that he changed the status of the rest of the family

* players who don't like incest (remember that the "official" version of Patreon assures that "nobody is related to anybody" would be very upset about having an official incestuous relationship.

It's all speculation...

 

[Cabin Fever]

You're right, I missed the latest news. But there are still a few inconsistencies remaining. Nika's parents died, but William is alive. But even if we do not take this into account, there remains a book club scene in which Nika should have recognized one unexpected guest if he were William's son. But he did not recognize his relative.

Since we are going down that rabbit hole of "Nika said his parents are dead" not being entirely true for whatever reason...

Given the complicated relationships in the Zane background story, it's entirely possible that some Zane's were estranged from each other. And therefore it's not entirely unreasonable if "William's son" wouldn't recognize his Katie, especially when at least half a decade has passed since they've last met.

I'm not saying Nika is William's son. I'm saying there isn't enough enough concrete proof one way or another.

 

[LHDLLB]

Don't know if they will make Nika Williams kid but they are similar. Both schemers and women love them. Feels like the same character different features and age.

the reason that I favor the Nika is William son theory, is because how much unlike they are. Williams starts the game as a charismatic, jacked chad with a hot girlfriend, Nika starts the game as a limp dick emo with noodle arms. Even as a teenager William was folling around, secretly datinf his twin sister, dry huping Ni at her house, fucking Monica on the kicthen counter at Kat birthday party, as a teenager Nika dated Summer and then was sad about it.

I could go on and on in the differences between them, but they also are much alike as you have pointed out. The point is that I think the two protagonist mirror's each other in very interesting ways and when you put this differences and similatirys in a father and son dynamics, it has potential for a grand storytelling.That also others aspect that I favor this theory but they are more meta.

I also like the idea that Nika may be the son of the WiaB antagonist. It would be very different but it could work as well, personally I would prefer having Williams as dad, also if happens that Nika is the antagonist son with some of the LI it could canonise the NTR and I don't think that it is something that Ocean wants to do

Can you even fathom a reason or venture a guess where this isn't the case? As it stands there is no doubt in my mind this is an attempt to future proof SG and only SG. He wants the game squeaky clean for not only his precious music licenses but to ensure the future distribution on platforms like Patreon, GoG and Steam without issues.

I can, Ocean simply change is mind once more and did not liked/think it worked as a full blown incest story anymore. I like Ocean works, I respect his ambitions but he does have a track record of chage his mind and change the game.
Personally, I prefer not entertain this idea very much. I believe that he wants to be safe, the man lives of this games and I can understand not wanting jeopardise his livelihood, but I will not lie and said that this significant of a change after one rework and all that went down with SG S1 have not make me question some things.
Ultimately, I still have faith that Ocean will tell a story worth investing in, one that goes beyond preferred fetiches so I will not cry much, as long it servers the story right. If not, I hope some kind soul can make a patch

 

[LHDLLB]

To be honest, if we are guessing and trying to assume his reasons, the only, only logical assumption I can come to (unfortunately) is:

Leia will no longer be a LI. What may or may not have happened in the past, is in the past and despite anger, resentment, conflicting emotions, deep love...that's where it will stay. It's the only, single way Ocean can future proof both stories and keep them 'clean'....

And despite Katie being my fave, if that actually is the case, I'll be done with both (as I only follow SG due to this, if this didn't exist, SG just isn't interesting enough to me as a VN to keep following it).

I can understand your reasoning, but I believe that Leia and Williams relationship are too integral to the story, change it would kill the game and I don't say it because I am a Leia fan. Don't think that Ocean would do it, ar least I hope not, the problem is that until he clarifie or the update comes we are living on a limbo where anything is possible

 

[Maviarab]

Btw guys, let's not attract the mods with too much SG/Nika talk here....

 

[alanrock]

Btw guys, let's not attract the mods with too much SG/Nika talk here....

Yeah, it'll be dark soon, and they mostly come at night ... mostly.

 

[Dr.TSoni]

I believe that Leia and Williams relationship are too integral to the story, change it would kill the game and I don't say it because I am a Leia fan.

It's the rest that worries me, if leaving them was preferable to them knowing the truth, is the adoptive mother's incident still a strong enough motivation for William's return?

Yeah, it'll be dark soon, and they mostly come at night ... mostly.

 

[BobTheDuck]

It's the rest that worries me, if leaving them was preferable to them knowing the truth, is the adoptive mother's incident still a strong enough motivation for William's return?


View attachment 3857375

Yes. Leia said William was Helen's favorite. Even as an adopted child, William could be doted on. It's just a question of compelling writing to make it work.

 

[LHDLLB]

It's the rest that worries me, if leaving them was preferable to them knowing the truth, is the adoptive mother's incident still a strong enough motivation for William's return?


View attachment 3857375

I think so. william did not came home only because Helen, he came home because he missed his folks, his friends even his city and he knows he wronged them, he his trying to make things right.Helen and Leia provides a reason, an excuse to come back. The man was gonna probably marry Miru and not have his family at the wedding ? William wanted to come back and did not know how to do it, Helen accident is the means not the reason.

If it is that the Zanes are his adoptive family I don't think it will affect too much, I agree that it can not be the same as if they are blood related, but I don't think it should ruin the story, just change the flavor, it may not be my favorite but is not bad either.

But even that is speculation, Ocean never said they are adopted, Helen and Dylan can be their godparents or their neighbors, that are present during their childhood and William and Leias parent died before he run away. It would required some changes to the early versions but until Ocean state something, nothing is really impossible.

 

[Maviarab]

I think so. william did not came home only because Helen, he came home because he missed his folks, his friends even his city and he knows he wronged them

Sure about that? When did he leave again....did he stay in touch...ever visit...before/after prison (and we have no idea how long that stint actually was)....

The man was gonna probably marry Miru and not have his family at the wedding ?

Sure..why not? See above response...

So back to Lady Tsoni's comment, he came back because his sister rang him and told him Helen had been in a serious accident. Now think about this. If he 'knew' he was adopted, would he rush back to an adopted mother....one he left, has not seen or even bothered speaking to...for years? (and we're estimating at least 10+ years right). He could have been dead and buried for all his 'family' knew...

Sure, guilt, past friends blah blah wah were probably a factor...but none of those factors actually mattered before, did they or he'd have gone back if all those things you mention mattered so much to him?

It really just doesn't make a lot of sense does it?