4.20 star(s) 198 Votes

txe320

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Dec 4, 2023
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Anyway, no matter what, we all agree it's not going in the right direction at all, I really hope Ocean will reconsider, and I clearly hope he won't remake it from chapter 1 too because if he does that, it's gonna be a shit show sadly.
 
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yossa999

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Dec 5, 2020
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Just my two cents
When we talk about blood family I reflexively think that William chose to run away as a response to Katie's blackmail out of shame or fear of rejection.
But when you talk about adoptive families the first reason that comes to mind is the fear of being kicked out so he preferred to exile himself to safeguard Leia.
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I see. My point is that this can only be one of the possible interpretations of what happened. In fact, the author can put whatever meaning he wants into this situation.

Like if MC didn't believe their adoptive parents truly loved them as their own children and was afraid they might kick him and Leia out, as you say. This can have a deeper level of drama depending on whether he is right or not.

But I think Helen and Dylan really loved and cared about the roommates :Kappa:, so as good parents they wouldn't play favorites or treat their tenants :Kappa:any different from their own child. And I believe MC felt the same way about them. So I think MC's motivation to leave would be no different depending on whether he was adopted or not.
 

yossa999

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Dec 5, 2020
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I have to side with Yossa here. To me, mother is mother, blood-related or not. Just makes more sense to me to not even factor in blood-relationship if I were in that situation. But as I said before, it all depends on the individual.

What I do know for a fact is that my friend that I've alluded to before, did literally drop everything and took a long flight halfway around the world the next morning to see his adopted mom as soon as his adopted sister told him that mom wasn't feeling well. But to be fair, in my friend's case, while he wasn't super tight-knit with his adopted family, he didn't "ghost" them neither.
We have a good example in SG, on the one hand, Noji, who works hard at the job she hates to provide for her roommates :Kappa:, loves them and cares about their well-being. On the other hand, Mila’s blood parents, the monsters from whom she runs away at the end of season 1.
 

Dr.TSoni

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May 20, 2022
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I see. My point is that this can only be one of the possible interpretations of what happened. In fact, the author can put whatever meaning he wants into this situation.

Like if MC didn't believe their adoptive parents truly loved them as their own children and was afraid they might kick him and Leia out, as you say. This can have a deeper level of drama depending on whether he is right or not.

But I think Helen and Dylan really loved and cared about the roommates :Kappa:, so as good parents they wouldn't play favorites or treat their tenants :Kappa:any different from their own child. And I believe MC felt the same way about them. So I think MC's motivation to leave would be no different depending on whether he was adopted or not.
We have a good example in SG, on the one hand, Noji, who works hard at the job she hates to provide for her roommates :Kappa:, loves them and cares about their well-being. On the other hand, Mila’s blood parents, the monsters from whom she runs away at the end of season 1.
True, but with Ocean there's always the fear that things will change for the worse.
A sort of Ocean's bias XD
 

sorco2003

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Sep 3, 2020
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We have a good example in SG, on the one hand, Noji, who works hard at the job she hates to provide for her roommates :Kappa:, loves them and cares about their well-being. On the other hand, Mila’s blood parents, the monsters from whom she runs away at the end of season 1.
Are you using the yeti to prove the existence of the Loch Ness monster? :p
 

RNasc4444

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Aug 16, 2022
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So I think MC's motivation to leave would be no different depending on whether he was adopted or not.
I want you to know that I tried but I truly cannot make sense of that perspective. I understand it, I get why it make sense to you but it just does not to me.

Genuine question, if you were to play WiAB again from the beginning, replay all content there is so far with this new knowledge, that only William and Leia are related, does it still feel natural to you?

The only way it does for me is if I assume Leia and Willi don't know that they are adopted. And if they don't know, if they were never told, were I in their place, for the rest of my life I would harbor nothing other than hatred and resentment towards them for hiding the truth for so long.

But if they do know, then I'm gonna be honest, nothing about the story so far feels natural or makes sense to me. Given how close Willi and Leia were they would always have this "us against them" mentality. If they had no blood bond to Katie, Dylan or Helen that feeling would naturally be 10x stronger. If they were not related to them I would not feel enough shame to just leave because Leia would always come first. Therefore I can not envision giving in to Katie's blackmail. I can not envision the same fear of disappointing someone I'm not related to no matter how much I love them/am thankful to them. And likewise I can not envision feeling the same guilt, enough to return all those years after. I would return for Leia. I would never consider returning for the rest of the "family".

I'm not saying I'm in the right here. And maybe there is something wrong with me, I'm not ruling that out. But the fact is, no matter how hard I try, I cannot, for a single second, even pretend that blood bond = adoption/guardianship.
 

Dr.TSoni

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May 20, 2022
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I want you to know that I tried but I truly cannot make sense of that perspective. I understand it, I get why it make sense to you but it just does not to me.

Genuine question, if you were to play WiAB again from the beginning, replay all content there is so far with this new knowledge, that only William and Leia are related, does it still feel natural to you?

The only way it does for me is if I assume Leia and Willi don't know that they are adopted. And if they don't know, if they were never told, were I in their place, for the rest of my life I would harbor nothing other than hatred and resentment towards them for hiding the truth for so long.

But if they do know, then I'm gonna be honest, nothing about the story so far feels natural or makes sense to me. Given how close Willi and Leia were they would always have this "us against them" mentality. If they had no blood bond to Katie, Dylan or Helen that feeling would naturally be 10x stronger. If they were not related to them I would not feel enough shame to just leave because Leia would always come first. Therefore I can not envision giving in to Katie's blackmail. I can not envision the same fear of disappointing someone I'm not related to no matter how much I love them/am thankful to them. And likewise I can not envision feeling the same guilt, enough to return all those years after. I would return for Leia. I would never consider returning for the rest of the "family".

I'm not saying I'm in the right here. And maybe there is something wrong with me, I'm not ruling that out. But the fact is, no matter how hard I try, I cannot, for a single second, even pretend that blood bond = adoption/guardianship.
I partially disagree on your topic in general, but specifically on WiAB I completely agree. Just look at the relationship between William and Dylan which has that "I think you did a shitty job but you're still my father" feel to it. A feeling that, I fear, would become resentment in an adoption situation.
 

weezal

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Jul 5, 2022
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I partially disagree on your topic in general, but specifically on WiAB I completely agree. Just look at the relationship between William and Dylan which has that "I think you did a shitty job but you're still my father" feel to it. A feeling that, I fear, would become resentment in an adoption situation.
None of this choice makes any sense at all. I can only pray ocean comes to his senses. 1721776730155.png
 

LHDLLB

Active Member
Oct 3, 2019
829
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I want you to know that I tried but I truly cannot make sense of that perspective. I understand it, I get why it make sense to you but it just does not to me.

Genuine question, if you were to play WiAB again from the beginning, replay all content there is so far with this new knowledge, that only William and Leia are related, does it still feel natural to you?

The only way it does for me is if I assume Leia and Willi don't know that they are adopted. And if they don't know, if they were never told, were I in their place, for the rest of my life I would harbor nothing other than hatred and resentment towards them for hiding the truth for so long.

But if they do know, then I'm gonna be honest, nothing about the story so far feels natural or makes sense to me. Given how close Willi and Leia were they would always have this "us against them" mentality. If they had no blood bond to Katie, Dylan or Helen that feeling would naturally be 10x stronger. If they were not related to them I would not feel enough shame to just leave because Leia would always come first. Therefore I can not envision giving in to Katie's blackmail. I can not envision the same fear of disappointing someone I'm not related to no matter how much I love them/am thankful to them. And likewise I can not envision feeling the same guilt, enough to return all those years after. I would return for Leia. I would never consider returning for the rest of the "family".

I'm not saying I'm in the right here. And maybe there is something wrong with me, I'm not ruling that out. But the fact is, no matter how hard I try, I cannot, for a single second, even pretend that blood bond = adoption/guardianship.
While I don't fully agree with all that you have said, I do for the most part. As of right now we are all guessing, but I think that William and Leia always knew they are adopt - if this is the direction Ocean goes - simply because if it was a intent to become a plot point, given how Ocean spoon feed information information in each update, he would not do so in a devlog. The change will be retroactive, maybe add some lines when William and Miru are talking in Chapter 1, I don't know, but to reveal now... it disrupts the flow of the story. William goes back to make amend, but finds out that his parents lied to him all his life, for me changes too much too fast. In short . It does not work.

About William and Leia, I fully agree, some of the relationships dynamics will have to change they can not stay the same. Who I see suffering most of it is Katie, her thing is that she was the third wheel but now her resentment towards the Twins and Helen and Dylan has to be a lot deeper she was the passed over child while being - maybe - the only natural one. That is the type of thing that really fucks up a child head. The thing is that I don't think Ocean will want to go that direction, because I don't think this change is born out of a artistic view but rather of a pratical need, so my fear is that the story becomes much like SG S1, a patched out thing, where you can see where was cut and stitched together. The difference is that SG it affected only one season, WiaB the whole story.
 

brinith

Newbie
Oct 12, 2019
26
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Wait so I'm confused after reading the last 10 pages of comments or so. Is this story moving away from interfamily coitus now? story rewrite?
 

txe320

Well-Known Member
Dec 4, 2023
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Wait so I'm confused after reading the last 10 pages of comments or so. Is this story moving away from interfamily coitus now? story rewrite?
Sounds like it, but we are not sure if it's only story changes or a rework from the first chapter that would change a lot more too.
 

LHDLLB

Active Member
Oct 3, 2019
829
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Wait so I'm confused after reading the last 10 pages of comments or so. Is this story moving away from interfamily coitus now? story rewrite?
Is this story moving away from interfamily coitus now? Yes, but also kinda maybe. the thing is that nobody really knows exactly how it will play out, but MC is only officially related to one person now where before he was related to 10+ (?) people. Now what the dev meant wich "related" is what we are trying to understand.

story rewrite? possibly
 

brinith

Newbie
Oct 12, 2019
26
76
Is this story moving away from interfamily coitus now? Yes, but also kinda maybe. the thing is that nobody really knows exactly how it will play out, but MC is only officially related to one person now where before he was related to 10+ (?) people. Now what the dev meant wich "related" is what we are trying to understand.

story rewrite? possibly
that stinks, I was actually invested in seeing the relationship with his twin move forward, potentially resolve. Same with Mom.
 
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LHDLLB

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Oct 3, 2019
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that stinks, I was actually invested in seeing the relationship with his twin move forward, potentially resolve. Same with Mom.
That is good, Leia ( the twin) is the confirmed related character so you still can enjoy
 

BobTheDuck

Engaged Member
Dec 24, 2018
2,153
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I want you to know that I tried but I truly cannot make sense of that perspective. I understand it, I get why it make sense to you but it just does not to me.

Genuine question, if you were to play WiAB again from the beginning, replay all content there is so far with this new knowledge, that only William and Leia are related, does it still feel natural to you?

The only way it does for me is if I assume Leia and Willi don't know that they are adopted. And if they don't know, if they were never told, were I in their place, for the rest of my life I would harbor nothing other than hatred and resentment towards them for hiding the truth for so long.

But if they do know, then I'm gonna be honest, nothing about the story so far feels natural or makes sense to me. Given how close Willi and Leia were they would always have this "us against them" mentality. If they had no blood bond to Katie, Dylan or Helen that feeling would naturally be 10x stronger. If they were not related to them I would not feel enough shame to just leave because Leia would always come first. Therefore I can not envision giving in to Katie's blackmail. I can not envision the same fear of disappointing someone I'm not related to no matter how much I love them/am thankful to them. And likewise I can not envision feeling the same guilt, enough to return all those years after. I would return for Leia. I would never consider returning for the rest of the "family".

I'm not saying I'm in the right here. And maybe there is something wrong with me, I'm not ruling that out. But the fact is, no matter how hard I try, I cannot, for a single second, even pretend that blood bond = adoption/guardianship.
I think this is where people's individuality comes into play. I don't know who my grandfather is. My dad doesn't know, and has no way to find out, my grandmother fled Europe during WWII and never mentioned him, died over 20 years ago. We've got his name on a birth certificate, to it's plausible these days to find out, but we don't know if that name is real. My dad cried when his stepdad died, despite how abusive he was towards my dad and his step sister. My dad and his stepsister got all the inheritance, and all their uncles and cousins are not on speaking terms, my dad and his step sister get on and keep in touch, help each other. My sister keeps egging my dad to find out, but he can't be bothered.

Family is complicated whatever form it takes. Would my dad have different feeling at his actual dad's funeral? We can't know. My dad was reacting authentically to the situation he lived through.

Back to WiaB, we're rating William's emotional responses as being inauthentic in on situation as another. He might actually be that affected, because that's the person he is - meathead in appearance to protect the parts of him that are raw. He might be crying for Helen on the phone, he might be crying for himself realising how he let things slide. All we see are tears. So yes I agree, there will be a different bundle of feelings and logic between natural child and adopted child, but it doesn't mean the feelings are stronger, weaker or whatever. Willi has had only one experience, he only has his lifeline. We're the one positing him in two different scenarios and putting his feelings on the scales. He's just reacting.

So yes, I can see his feelings as plausible, they are just with different composition, different memories. Things like Helen reading him to sleep or Dylan giving him his love of working out. The bond might be differnt, but the gratitude is personal, and William's not a complete asshole, just a buffoon. He's capable of gratitude and of care. Think about how he calls Daphne and how much he dreads it and how emotional he gets. He does wear his heart on his sleeve, even though he can be obnoxiously oblivious.

In the new paradigm, yes the tension between Katie will be heightened. I consider that a good thing. The bond with Leia, well, how self absorbed is William? That flashback shows he didn't really give as much though to Leia as she gave to him. I can belief he'd make an impetuous decision to leave, then ends up in the wrong place, ends up in prison, can't escape. He learns to be a bit more self reliant, less oblivious.

If they've not been told, yes, resentment can occur. Massively. No problem with that drama popping up once they're told. Future drama. If Leia has been told, that would explain why she keeps her distance about breakfast. They might have had to tell Leia after she had her breakdown and the doctors revealed it from the medical records. Who knows? Or they've grown up knowing. What's the best age to tell someone adopted from birth? Or, when were they adopted?

In your stance, your putting a one size fits all approach to adoption, essentially saying that all these potential scenarios have the same lesser weight. They all have a different bundle of emotions. Keep in mind that before Ocean mentions this change, William still didn't connect with his family after things settled down. He was prepared to let things slide. I'm suggesting his personality is very much like a bulldog, whatever is in his frame of vision he latches onto (but with the persistance of memory of a goldfish maybe when it comes to women :sneaky:) but he can be very oblivious.

Regards dropping everything, William is impulsive, and is pretty much just hanging out having laser tag sex with Miru. He doesn't have a wage, he's a personal trainer and author. He can shift his schedule around, and might have had a slow week.
 

zack1419

Member
Sep 22, 2019
140
346
I want you to know that I tried but I truly cannot make sense of that perspective. I understand it, I get why it make sense to you but it just does not to me.

Genuine question, if you were to play WiAB again from the beginning, replay all content there is so far with this new knowledge, that only William and Leia are related, does it still feel natural to you?

The only way it does for me is if I assume Leia and Willi don't know that they are adopted. And if they don't know, if they were never told, were I in their place, for the rest of my life I would harbor nothing other than hatred and resentment towards them for hiding the truth for so long.

But if they do know, then I'm gonna be honest, nothing about the story so far feels natural or makes sense to me. Given how close Willi and Leia were they would always have this "us against them" mentality. If they had no blood bond to Katie, Dylan or Helen that feeling would naturally be 10x stronger. If they were not related to them I would not feel enough shame to just leave because Leia would always come first. Therefore I can not envision giving in to Katie's blackmail. I can not envision the same fear of disappointing someone I'm not related to no matter how much I love them/am thankful to them. And likewise I can not envision feeling the same guilt, enough to return all those years after. I would return for Leia. I would never consider returning for the rest of the "family".

I'm not saying I'm in the right here. And maybe there is something wrong with me, I'm not ruling that out. But the fact is, no matter how hard I try, I cannot, for a single second, even pretend that blood bond = adoption/guardianship.
wait i havent been paying attention to this forum for a while, but is Ocean finally going to ruin this game with new rewrites? pls say it aint so.
 

yossa999

Engaged Member
Dec 5, 2020
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I want you to know that I tried but I truly cannot make sense of that perspective. I understand it, I get why it make sense to you but it just does not to me.

Genuine question, if you were to play WiAB again from the beginning, replay all content there is so far with this new knowledge, that only William and Leia are related, does it still feel natural to you?
Absolutely. They are still the same family and their bond and relationship came from the love and care that Helen and Dylan gave MC and Leia since they were children. I don't know, but to me it looks like that when you talk about foster families, you get the image of these half-drunk freaks who groom orphans in order to get more money from social services for their booze.

The only way it does for me is if I assume Leia and Willi don't know that they are adopted. And if they don't know, if they were never told, were I in their place, for the rest of my life I would harbor nothing other than hatred and resentment towards them for hiding the truth for so long.
The only thing I can agree on is that it will definitely be a shock for them to find out that they are adopted children. And then the author can take that twist any way he wants, and I think we've all seen possible development of this twist in popular films and books.
Adopted children may hate their natural parents for abandoning them.
Adopted children may hate their adoptive parents for hiding the truth.
They may freak out at first, but then realize and accept their adoptive parents' motivations.
They may want to know their biological parents or decide they don't care cause the only parents they know are those who raised them.
And there are a hundred more variations and combinations, and a good author will be able to write them all plausible.
By the way, I recently heard a version that Helen cucked Dylan, so the MC and Leia are her own children, but Dylan isn't their father. :HideThePain:

But if they do know, then I'm gonna be honest, nothing about the story so far feels natural or makes sense to me. Given how close Willi and Leia were they would always have this "us against them" mentality. If they had no blood bond to Katie, Dylan or Helen that feeling would naturally be 10x stronger. If they were not related to them I would not feel enough shame to just leave because Leia would always come first. Therefore I can not envision giving in to Katie's blackmail. I can not envision the same fear of disappointing someone I'm not related to no matter how much I love them/am thankful to them. And likewise I can not envision feeling the same guilt, enough to return all those years after. I would return for Leia. I would never consider returning for the rest of the "family".
If they still have an "us against them" mentality, then Helen and Dylan were bad parents and couldn't do their jobs properly. They couldn't make them feel wanted and loved. Well, that’s also a possible option, but it doesn’t seem plausible to me, because in MC’s childhood memories they all look happy (well, maybe except for Katie :Kappa:).

And before you say that these memories become irrelevant because they were about blood parents, I disagree. This would mean that adoptive parents cannot feel the same connection and love for their adopted children as blood parents, which is not true. It's just your belief that blood kinship automatically makes parental and childish bond ten times stronger. Ever heard of mothers throwing their newborn children in the dumpster?

I'm not saying I'm in the right here. And maybe there is something wrong with me, I'm not ruling that out. But the fact is, no matter how hard I try, I cannot, for a single second, even pretend that blood bond = adoption/guardianship.
My favorite game, unfortunately abandoned before the plot even began to move anywhere, is based on this very trope.
MC, whose mother abandoned him at birth and who has an adoptive father, receives a call from the hospital, a nurse tells him that his mother is dying and asks him to visit her. And he is tormented, trying to decide whether he should do this and whether this would be a betrayal of his adoptive father - the only person who cared about him and whom he truly considers his real parent. I don't think you would like this game. :KEK:
 
4.20 star(s) 198 Votes