4.30 star(s) 186 Votes

Dr.TSoni

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May 20, 2022
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Nope, I read what you wrote. You say the MC's reaction should be different depending on whether they are related by blood or not otherwise it doesn't make sense to you.
Let's peel it from the husk and leave only the essence.

A blood related mother - it makes sense to drop everything and run to her.
An adoptive mother - there’s no need to rush, she’s just a second-class mother.

Otherwise there is no point in even mentioning this difference. The fact that he never cared about her the last ten years doesn't matter because this is the same person he never cared about the last ten years, regardless of whether they are blood related or not.

What am I conveniently forgetting now? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Just my two cents
When we talk about blood family I reflexively think that William chose to run away as a response to Katie's blackmail out of shame or fear of rejection.
But when you talk about adoptive families the first reason that comes to mind is the fear of being kicked out so he preferred to exile himself to safeguard Leia.
c1466864-061b-416c-a907-d21c05fa8196_text.gif
 

Cabin Fever

Engaged Member
Nov 23, 2018
3,189
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Preach...


Is it my turn now Yossa to accuse you of only reading what you want to? (sorco2003 would be so proud of me lol).

I said not immediately...especially given (you also are conveniently forgetting) the time frame involved that he has never bothered going back. Dropping everything for his mother because his sister called...makes sense. Dropping everything and leaving almost immediately, because his sister called about his adopted mom...may have been a day or two later (especially if he knows he is adopted). He never cared in the last ten plus years (again, we have no idea how long he was inside)...why the rush now (though admittedly, that also throws a spanner in the, if his real mom..why still stay away NC)?

Tldr: Just makes more sense to me to drop everything and leave for a real mother...

This does also lead back and into what Bob said earlier....why the hell leave in the first place...especially if...
I have to side with Yossa here. To me, mother is mother, blood-related or not. Just makes more sense to me to not even factor in blood-relationship if I were in that situation. But as I said before, it all depends on the individual.

What I do know for a fact is that my friend that I've alluded to before, did literally drop everything and took a long flight halfway around the world the next morning to see his adopted mom as soon as his adopted sister told him that mom wasn't feeling well. But to be fair, in my friend's case, while he wasn't super tight-knit with his adopted family, he didn't "ghost" them neither.
 

txe320

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Dec 4, 2023
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Anyway, no matter what, we all agree it's not going in the right direction at all, I really hope Ocean will reconsider, and I clearly hope he won't remake it from chapter 1 too because if he does that, it's gonna be a shit show sadly.
 
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yossa999

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Dec 5, 2020
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Just my two cents
When we talk about blood family I reflexively think that William chose to run away as a response to Katie's blackmail out of shame or fear of rejection.
But when you talk about adoptive families the first reason that comes to mind is the fear of being kicked out so he preferred to exile himself to safeguard Leia.
View attachment 3860237
I see. My point is that this can only be one of the possible interpretations of what happened. In fact, the author can put whatever meaning he wants into this situation.

Like if MC didn't believe their adoptive parents truly loved them as their own children and was afraid they might kick him and Leia out, as you say. This can have a deeper level of drama depending on whether he is right or not.

But I think Helen and Dylan really loved and cared about the roommates :Kappa:, so as good parents they wouldn't play favorites or treat their tenants :Kappa:any different from their own child. And I believe MC felt the same way about them. So I think MC's motivation to leave would be no different depending on whether he was adopted or not.
 

yossa999

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Dec 5, 2020
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I have to side with Yossa here. To me, mother is mother, blood-related or not. Just makes more sense to me to not even factor in blood-relationship if I were in that situation. But as I said before, it all depends on the individual.

What I do know for a fact is that my friend that I've alluded to before, did literally drop everything and took a long flight halfway around the world the next morning to see his adopted mom as soon as his adopted sister told him that mom wasn't feeling well. But to be fair, in my friend's case, while he wasn't super tight-knit with his adopted family, he didn't "ghost" them neither.
We have a good example in SG, on the one hand, Noji, who works hard at the job she hates to provide for her roommates :Kappa:, loves them and cares about their well-being. On the other hand, Mila’s blood parents, the monsters from whom she runs away at the end of season 1.
 

Dr.TSoni

Member
May 20, 2022
446
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I see. My point is that this can only be one of the possible interpretations of what happened. In fact, the author can put whatever meaning he wants into this situation.

Like if MC didn't believe their adoptive parents truly loved them as their own children and was afraid they might kick him and Leia out, as you say. This can have a deeper level of drama depending on whether he is right or not.

But I think Helen and Dylan really loved and cared about the roommates :Kappa:, so as good parents they wouldn't play favorites or treat their tenants :Kappa:any different from their own child. And I believe MC felt the same way about them. So I think MC's motivation to leave would be no different depending on whether he was adopted or not.
We have a good example in SG, on the one hand, Noji, who works hard at the job she hates to provide for her roommates :Kappa:, loves them and cares about their well-being. On the other hand, Mila’s blood parents, the monsters from whom she runs away at the end of season 1.
True, but with Ocean there's always the fear that things will change for the worse.
A sort of Ocean's bias XD
 

sorco2003

Well-Known Member
Sep 3, 2020
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We have a good example in SG, on the one hand, Noji, who works hard at the job she hates to provide for her roommates :Kappa:, loves them and cares about their well-being. On the other hand, Mila’s blood parents, the monsters from whom she runs away at the end of season 1.
Are you using the yeti to prove the existence of the Loch Ness monster? :p
 

RNasc4444

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Aug 16, 2022
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So I think MC's motivation to leave would be no different depending on whether he was adopted or not.
I want you to know that I tried but I truly cannot make sense of that perspective. I understand it, I get why it make sense to you but it just does not to me.

Genuine question, if you were to play WiAB again from the beginning, replay all content there is so far with this new knowledge, that only William and Leia are related, does it still feel natural to you?

The only way it does for me is if I assume Leia and Willi don't know that they are adopted. And if they don't know, if they were never told, were I in their place, for the rest of my life I would harbor nothing other than hatred and resentment towards them for hiding the truth for so long.

But if they do know, then I'm gonna be honest, nothing about the story so far feels natural or makes sense to me. Given how close Willi and Leia were they would always have this "us against them" mentality. If they had no blood bond to Katie, Dylan or Helen that feeling would naturally be 10x stronger. If they were not related to them I would not feel enough shame to just leave because Leia would always come first. Therefore I can not envision giving in to Katie's blackmail. I can not envision the same fear of disappointing someone I'm not related to no matter how much I love them/am thankful to them. And likewise I can not envision feeling the same guilt, enough to return all those years after. I would return for Leia. I would never consider returning for the rest of the "family".

I'm not saying I'm in the right here. And maybe there is something wrong with me, I'm not ruling that out. But the fact is, no matter how hard I try, I cannot, for a single second, even pretend that blood bond = adoption/guardianship.
 

Dr.TSoni

Member
May 20, 2022
446
1,066
I want you to know that I tried but I truly cannot make sense of that perspective. I understand it, I get why it make sense to you but it just does not to me.

Genuine question, if you were to play WiAB again from the beginning, replay all content there is so far with this new knowledge, that only William and Leia are related, does it still feel natural to you?

The only way it does for me is if I assume Leia and Willi don't know that they are adopted. And if they don't know, if they were never told, were I in their place, for the rest of my life I would harbor nothing other than hatred and resentment towards them for hiding the truth for so long.

But if they do know, then I'm gonna be honest, nothing about the story so far feels natural or makes sense to me. Given how close Willi and Leia were they would always have this "us against them" mentality. If they had no blood bond to Katie, Dylan or Helen that feeling would naturally be 10x stronger. If they were not related to them I would not feel enough shame to just leave because Leia would always come first. Therefore I can not envision giving in to Katie's blackmail. I can not envision the same fear of disappointing someone I'm not related to no matter how much I love them/am thankful to them. And likewise I can not envision feeling the same guilt, enough to return all those years after. I would return for Leia. I would never consider returning for the rest of the "family".

I'm not saying I'm in the right here. And maybe there is something wrong with me, I'm not ruling that out. But the fact is, no matter how hard I try, I cannot, for a single second, even pretend that blood bond = adoption/guardianship.
I partially disagree on your topic in general, but specifically on WiAB I completely agree. Just look at the relationship between William and Dylan which has that "I think you did a shitty job but you're still my father" feel to it. A feeling that, I fear, would become resentment in an adoption situation.
 

weezal

Member
Jul 5, 2022
478
884
I partially disagree on your topic in general, but specifically on WiAB I completely agree. Just look at the relationship between William and Dylan which has that "I think you did a shitty job but you're still my father" feel to it. A feeling that, I fear, would become resentment in an adoption situation.
None of this choice makes any sense at all. I can only pray ocean comes to his senses. 1721776730155.png
 

LHDLLB

Member
Oct 3, 2019
101
163
I want you to know that I tried but I truly cannot make sense of that perspective. I understand it, I get why it make sense to you but it just does not to me.

Genuine question, if you were to play WiAB again from the beginning, replay all content there is so far with this new knowledge, that only William and Leia are related, does it still feel natural to you?

The only way it does for me is if I assume Leia and Willi don't know that they are adopted. And if they don't know, if they were never told, were I in their place, for the rest of my life I would harbor nothing other than hatred and resentment towards them for hiding the truth for so long.

But if they do know, then I'm gonna be honest, nothing about the story so far feels natural or makes sense to me. Given how close Willi and Leia were they would always have this "us against them" mentality. If they had no blood bond to Katie, Dylan or Helen that feeling would naturally be 10x stronger. If they were not related to them I would not feel enough shame to just leave because Leia would always come first. Therefore I can not envision giving in to Katie's blackmail. I can not envision the same fear of disappointing someone I'm not related to no matter how much I love them/am thankful to them. And likewise I can not envision feeling the same guilt, enough to return all those years after. I would return for Leia. I would never consider returning for the rest of the "family".

I'm not saying I'm in the right here. And maybe there is something wrong with me, I'm not ruling that out. But the fact is, no matter how hard I try, I cannot, for a single second, even pretend that blood bond = adoption/guardianship.
While I don't fully agree with all that you have said, I do for the most part. As of right now we are all guessing, but I think that William and Leia always knew they are adopt - if this is the direction Ocean goes - simply because if it was a intent to become a plot point, given how Ocean spoon feed information information in each update, he would not do so in a devlog. The change will be retroactive, maybe add some lines when William and Miru are talking in Chapter 1, I don't know, but to reveal now... it disrupts the flow of the story. William goes back to make amend, but finds out that his parents lied to him all his life, for me changes too much too fast. In short . It does not work.

About William and Leia, I fully agree, some of the relationships dynamics will have to change they can not stay the same. Who I see suffering most of it is Katie, her thing is that she was the third wheel but now her resentment towards the Twins and Helen and Dylan has to be a lot deeper she was the passed over child while being - maybe - the only natural one. That is the type of thing that really fucks up a child head. The thing is that I don't think Ocean will want to go that direction, because I don't think this change is born out of a artistic view but rather of a pratical need, so my fear is that the story becomes much like SG S1, a patched out thing, where you can see where was cut and stitched together. The difference is that SG it affected only one season, WiaB the whole story.
 

brinith

Newbie
Oct 12, 2019
15
38
Wait so I'm confused after reading the last 10 pages of comments or so. Is this story moving away from interfamily coitus now? story rewrite?
 

txe320

Active Member
Dec 4, 2023
831
1,955
Wait so I'm confused after reading the last 10 pages of comments or so. Is this story moving away from interfamily coitus now? story rewrite?
Sounds like it, but we are not sure if it's only story changes or a rework from the first chapter that would change a lot more too.
 

LHDLLB

Member
Oct 3, 2019
101
163
Wait so I'm confused after reading the last 10 pages of comments or so. Is this story moving away from interfamily coitus now? story rewrite?
Is this story moving away from interfamily coitus now? Yes, but also kinda maybe. the thing is that nobody really knows exactly how it will play out, but MC is only officially related to one person now where before he was related to 10+ (?) people. Now what the dev meant wich "related" is what we are trying to understand.

story rewrite? possibly
 

brinith

Newbie
Oct 12, 2019
15
38
Is this story moving away from interfamily coitus now? Yes, but also kinda maybe. the thing is that nobody really knows exactly how it will play out, but MC is only officially related to one person now where before he was related to 10+ (?) people. Now what the dev meant wich "related" is what we are trying to understand.

story rewrite? possibly
that stinks, I was actually invested in seeing the relationship with his twin move forward, potentially resolve. Same with Mom.
 
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BobTheDuck

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Dec 24, 2018
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I want you to know that I tried but I truly cannot make sense of that perspective. I understand it, I get why it make sense to you but it just does not to me.

Genuine question, if you were to play WiAB again from the beginning, replay all content there is so far with this new knowledge, that only William and Leia are related, does it still feel natural to you?

The only way it does for me is if I assume Leia and Willi don't know that they are adopted. And if they don't know, if they were never told, were I in their place, for the rest of my life I would harbor nothing other than hatred and resentment towards them for hiding the truth for so long.

But if they do know, then I'm gonna be honest, nothing about the story so far feels natural or makes sense to me. Given how close Willi and Leia were they would always have this "us against them" mentality. If they had no blood bond to Katie, Dylan or Helen that feeling would naturally be 10x stronger. If they were not related to them I would not feel enough shame to just leave because Leia would always come first. Therefore I can not envision giving in to Katie's blackmail. I can not envision the same fear of disappointing someone I'm not related to no matter how much I love them/am thankful to them. And likewise I can not envision feeling the same guilt, enough to return all those years after. I would return for Leia. I would never consider returning for the rest of the "family".

I'm not saying I'm in the right here. And maybe there is something wrong with me, I'm not ruling that out. But the fact is, no matter how hard I try, I cannot, for a single second, even pretend that blood bond = adoption/guardianship.
I think this is where people's individuality comes into play. I don't know who my grandfather is. My dad doesn't know, and has no way to find out, my grandmother fled Europe during WWII and never mentioned him, died over 20 years ago. We've got his name on a birth certificate, to it's plausible these days to find out, but we don't know if that name is real. My dad cried when his stepdad died, despite how abusive he was towards my dad and his step sister. My dad and his stepsister got all the inheritance, and all their uncles and cousins are not on speaking terms, my dad and his step sister get on and keep in touch, help each other. My sister keeps egging my dad to find out, but he can't be bothered.

Family is complicated whatever form it takes. Would my dad have different feeling at his actual dad's funeral? We can't know. My dad was reacting authentically to the situation he lived through.

Back to WiaB, we're rating William's emotional responses as being inauthentic in on situation as another. He might actually be that affected, because that's the person he is - meathead in appearance to protect the parts of him that are raw. He might be crying for Helen on the phone, he might be crying for himself realising how he let things slide. All we see are tears. So yes I agree, there will be a different bundle of feelings and logic between natural child and adopted child, but it doesn't mean the feelings are stronger, weaker or whatever. Willi has had only one experience, he only has his lifeline. We're the one positing him in two different scenarios and putting his feelings on the scales. He's just reacting.

So yes, I can see his feelings as plausible, they are just with different composition, different memories. Things like Helen reading him to sleep or Dylan giving him his love of working out. The bond might be differnt, but the gratitude is personal, and William's not a complete asshole, just a buffoon. He's capable of gratitude and of care. Think about how he calls Daphne and how much he dreads it and how emotional he gets. He does wear his heart on his sleeve, even though he can be obnoxiously oblivious.

In the new paradigm, yes the tension between Katie will be heightened. I consider that a good thing. The bond with Leia, well, how self absorbed is William? That flashback shows he didn't really give as much though to Leia as she gave to him. I can belief he'd make an impetuous decision to leave, then ends up in the wrong place, ends up in prison, can't escape. He learns to be a bit more self reliant, less oblivious.

If they've not been told, yes, resentment can occur. Massively. No problem with that drama popping up once they're told. Future drama. If Leia has been told, that would explain why she keeps her distance about breakfast. They might have had to tell Leia after she had her breakdown and the doctors revealed it from the medical records. Who knows? Or they've grown up knowing. What's the best age to tell someone adopted from birth? Or, when were they adopted?

In your stance, your putting a one size fits all approach to adoption, essentially saying that all these potential scenarios have the same lesser weight. They all have a different bundle of emotions. Keep in mind that before Ocean mentions this change, William still didn't connect with his family after things settled down. He was prepared to let things slide. I'm suggesting his personality is very much like a bulldog, whatever is in his frame of vision he latches onto (but with the persistance of memory of a goldfish maybe when it comes to women :sneaky:) but he can be very oblivious.

Regards dropping everything, William is impulsive, and is pretty much just hanging out having laser tag sex with Miru. He doesn't have a wage, he's a personal trainer and author. He can shift his schedule around, and might have had a slow week.
 

zack1419

Member
Sep 22, 2019
130
303
I want you to know that I tried but I truly cannot make sense of that perspective. I understand it, I get why it make sense to you but it just does not to me.

Genuine question, if you were to play WiAB again from the beginning, replay all content there is so far with this new knowledge, that only William and Leia are related, does it still feel natural to you?

The only way it does for me is if I assume Leia and Willi don't know that they are adopted. And if they don't know, if they were never told, were I in their place, for the rest of my life I would harbor nothing other than hatred and resentment towards them for hiding the truth for so long.

But if they do know, then I'm gonna be honest, nothing about the story so far feels natural or makes sense to me. Given how close Willi and Leia were they would always have this "us against them" mentality. If they had no blood bond to Katie, Dylan or Helen that feeling would naturally be 10x stronger. If they were not related to them I would not feel enough shame to just leave because Leia would always come first. Therefore I can not envision giving in to Katie's blackmail. I can not envision the same fear of disappointing someone I'm not related to no matter how much I love them/am thankful to them. And likewise I can not envision feeling the same guilt, enough to return all those years after. I would return for Leia. I would never consider returning for the rest of the "family".

I'm not saying I'm in the right here. And maybe there is something wrong with me, I'm not ruling that out. But the fact is, no matter how hard I try, I cannot, for a single second, even pretend that blood bond = adoption/guardianship.
wait i havent been paying attention to this forum for a while, but is Ocean finally going to ruin this game with new rewrites? pls say it aint so.
 
4.30 star(s) 186 Votes