VN Ren'Py Where It All Began [Ch. 3 Full] [Oceanlab]

[LHDLLB]

Again, while I respect your opinion and taste, I have to disagree on every regard. There is no one in this universe worse than Leia if we take into account all that has been shown so far. Katie is the product of years of abuse and manipulation by her 2 awful older "siblings". She had to quickly learn to give as hard as she got and there is no doubt she leaned into it. But you can see her demeanor drastically change when Leia and Willi aren't around. Also, again, not shitting on your personal preferences and taste but to me, Leia is as far removed from "sexy" as Earth is from Alpha Centauri

Katie clears every other girl by a mile on all metrics...at least for as long as Miru keeps those awful nipple piercings

I will not say that Leia is a good person, she is not. But just as there is a context to Katie behavior, there is for Leia.

The story so far demonstrate that she was way, way more invested in the fooling around than William ever was, Leia deeply loved William and she knew what it meant. While William was dry humping Dana, fucking Mon and whoever he get the chance.

So basically Leia was cucked the entirely of her teenage years, were everybody and their mother fucked William while she was by the side, trying to get a piece herself. And is not like William did not feed to her expectation either, carving their names on trees and whatnot

So after all that, he just disappeared. Without an explanation, without goodbye and never bothered to reach out in some way. Then she basically tries to starve herself to death out of loneliness and depression. Leia has every right to be piss off with William and be cold to him

Neither of this justify her being an evil bitch, just a bitch. But there is context to her behavior just as there is to Katie, Mon or Dana, and the context is that William was a real dick when he was young and now want to do right

 

[Dr.TSoni]

I will not say that Leia is a good person, she is not. But just as there is a context to Katie behavior, there is for Leia.

The story so far demonstrate that she was way, way more invested in the fooling around than William ever was, Leia deeply loved William and she knew what it meant. While William was dry humping Dana, fucking Mon and whoever he get the chance.

So basically Leia was cucked the entirely of her teenage years, were everybody and their mother fucked William while she was by the side, trying to get a piece herself. And is not like William did not feed to her expectation either, carving their names on trees and whatnot

So after all that, he just disappeared. Without an explanation, without goodbye and never bothered to reach out in some way. Then she basically tries to starve herself to death out of loneliness and depression. Leia has every right to be piss off with William and be cold to him

Neither of this justify her being an evil bitch, just a bitch. But there is context to her behavior just as there is to Katie, Mon or Dana, and the context is that William was a real dick when he was young and now want to do right

I partially agree with your analysis
But here begins the problems with the changes Ocean has made. Given these premises, Leia should not have called William.

 

[RNasc4444]

I will not say that Leia is a good person, she is not. But just as there is a context to Katie behavior, there is for Leia.

The story so far demonstrate that she was way, way more invested in the fooling around than William ever was, Leia deeply loved William and she knew what it meant. While William was dry humping Dana, fucking Mon and whoever he get the chance.

So basically Leia was cucked the entirely of her teenage years, were everybody and their mother fucked William while she was by the side, trying to get a piece herself. And is not like William did not feed to her expectation either, carving their names on trees and whatnot

So after all that, he just disappeared. Without an explanation, without goodbye and never bothered to reach out in some way. Then she basically tries to starve herself to death out of loneliness and depression. Leia has every right to be piss off with William and be cold to him

Neither of this justify her being an evil bitch, just a bitch. But there is context to her behavior just as there is to Katie, Mon or Dana, and the context is that William was a real dick when he was young and now want to do right

Absolutely! I'm not saying there is no context that explains why Leia is the way she is. But I am saying that Katie got it worse off as a child and didn't grow up to become a drug dealer or a pimp

Also weren't Wili and Leia in an actual committed relationship as kids? I'm pretty sure there is a scene where they are talking in bed where they mention or imply being boyfriend/girlfriend. The conversation is even about gifts as a milestone celebration in their relationship, right? No doubt Leia got cucked but at least she got to be in an actual relationship with the guy she wants.

Then again may just be my own perception and biases manifesting here. I have a rather low to mid opinion of the main characters in Ocean's games. From both MC's to Leia and Summer. Charming assholes are still assholes.

 

[LHDLLB]

I partially agree with your analysis
But here begins the problems with the changes Ocean has made. Given these premises, Leia should not have called William.

We still don't know why she called him, sure as hell was not to fuck Monica, so I wager that there is more to it than we know.

Absolutely! I'm not saying there is no context that explains why Leia is the way she is. But I am saying that Katie got it worse off as a child and didn't grow up to become a drug dealer or a pimp

Also weren't Wili and Leia in an actual committed relationship as kids? I'm pretty sure there is a scene where they are talking in bed where they mention or imply being boyfriend/girlfriend. The conversation is even about gifts as a milestone celebration in their relationship, right? No doubt Leia got cucked but at least she got to be in an actual relationship with the guy she wants.

Then again may just be my own perception and biases manifesting here. I have a rather low to mid opinion of the main characters in Ocean's games. From both MC's to Leia and Summer. Charming assholes are still assholes.

You are absolutely right. As I said, Leia is not a good person and I am curious to see how she came to be a pimp. If it is a family business or something of her own. Also, I am certain that Katie is not as chill as she seems, better person tha Leia, for sure, but just as fucked up.

Yeah, there is the scene. But William is like whatever I want a Playstation, I don't think that William was mature enough to understand what fooling around with your twin means. I think that he never saw it as a committed relationship as Leia did.

Here we disagree, I always like characters that are a bit of a ass, it is one of the reasons that I like Ocean games, almost everybody is one to some degree.

 

[Dr.TSoni]

We still don't know why she called him, sure as hell was not to fuck Monica, so I wager that there is more to it than we know.

True, but I can't shake the feeling that when the big twist about why Leia contacted William is revealed to us, it will end in a facepalm

 

[LHDLLB]

True, but I can't shake the feeling that when the big twist about why Leia contacted William is revealed to us, it will end in a facepalm

It is possible, the problem with mystery boxes is that if the pay off is not good enough it degrades the whole story. I hope that Ocean can pay off everything that he has set up.

 

[sorco2003]

I will not say that Leia is a good person, she is not. But just as there is a context to Katie behavior, there is for Leia.

The story so far demonstrate that she was way, way more invested in the fooling around than William ever was, Leia deeply loved William and she knew what it meant. While William was dry humping Dana, fucking Mon and whoever he get the chance.

So basically Leia was cucked the entirely of her teenage years, were everybody and their mother fucked William while she was by the side, trying to get a piece herself. And is not like William did not feed to her expectation either, carving their names on trees and whatnot

So after all that, he just disappeared. Without an explanation, without goodbye and never bothered to reach out in some way. Then she basically tries to starve herself to death out of loneliness and depression. Leia has every right to be piss off with William and be cold to him

Neither of this justify her being an evil bitch, just a bitch. But there is context to her behavior just as there is to Katie, Mon or Dana, and the context is that William was a real dick when he was young and now want to do right

The analysis has problems with the timing, and I mean that we don't know how the events happened, we can only affirm that Leia was already evil before and became a cold bitch after William left... The carving on the tree is not dated, so it could have been after William realized his own feelings for Leia.


Edit: I stand corrected, with the new family dynamics in the story, depending on when they were adopted, Leia's personality will have been formed only with William's presence, so while it doesn't take away from the fact that she was already a bitch, it does give her a more solid context for who she was.

 

[Dr.TSoni]

The analysis has problems with the timing, and I mean that we don't know how the events happened, we can only affirm that Leia was already evil before and became a cold bitch after William left... The carving on the tree is not dated, so it could have been after William realized his own feelings for Leia.

Effectively period is quite confusing, we have a flashback where a very young Leia and William talk about celebrating a month together or something similar. Then we have a William who says to only realized he wanted Leia after losing his virginity to Monica.

 

[sorco2003]

Effectively period is quite confusing, we have a flashback where a very young Leia and William talk about celebrating a month together or something similar. Then we have a William who says to only realized he wanted Leia after losing his virginity to Monica.

yep, that scene is so problematic...

 

[LHDLLB]

The analysis has problems with the timing, and I mean that we don't know how the events happened, we can only affirm that Leia was already evil before and became a cold bitch after William left... The carving on the tree is not dated, so it could have been after William realized his own feelings for Leia.


Edit: I stand corrected, with the new family dynamics in the story, depending on when they were adopted, Leia's personality will have been formed only with William's presence, so while it doesn't take away from the fact that she was already a bitch, it does give her a more solid context for who she was.

Yeah, I thought the same writing it, but even if something is off, can't be by much, everything has to have happen is a very condensing time frame 2 to 3 year at most.

I would not say that she was evil as a child, rather after everthing that went down with her, after she overcomed her depression she become ruthless and more cruel than before.

The carving, that william did not look like a 16 - 18 year old boy, he seems much younger than that. But you are right, as it is not dated, it could have happen at any time, but I would be very surprised if so.

 

[weezal]

Guys the obvious answer is that Ocean has absolutely no plan at all and is just making it up as he goes, creating lots of inconsistencies.

 

[gilean123]

last version of the game does contain ch 1 and ch 2?

 

[sorco2003]

last version of the game does contain ch 1 and ch 2?

All 3 chapters

 

[BobTheDuck]

Effectively period is quite confusing, we have a flashback where a very young Leia and William talk about celebrating a month together or something similar. Then we have a William who says to only realized he wanted Leia after losing his virginity to Monica.

- William's been gone for more than 5 years - as he's been with Miru for five years, three months and eleven days, and she is post him leaving. Whe don't know in this version if they start together in prison, or after. There will be more time than that. Leia hadn't hit puberty when William left, no breasts, it's mentioned William says they're new.
- Mon was deflowered at Kat's birthday - as Kat's still in college, and William is 24ish, that makes sense to Mon being older than kat, same age as William, Dana, Leia etc. After orgasm, William had post nut clarity and left Mon because he relaised he wanted Leia and saw no future with Mon.
- the new family dynamic only alters when Katie knew Leia and William, not when William and Leia knew each other - as they are related, there is almost no chance they would have been separated and reunited. There's the flashback where they're playing with toy dinosaurs and we first get the bibi word, which shows us the youngest that they interacted with Katie that we currently know. Then we see Dylan teaching them to fight. I can't imagine that the toy dinosaurs were when they were much older than 6. William, on to video games by the time of the flashback with Leia, so they've been in the Zane household from a young age (unless Ocean re-renders).
- The heart can be carved at any time. William has shown that he can be genuine, then 180 and be an asshole. It could be after he creampies Mon, right before he flees, having realised he needs to take Leia seriously. We don't know if William and Leia were committed from the flashback until he left, but in the monthiversary flashback, William's an asshole, so it's likely the heart was at a later point.
- William was still being chased by girls throughout highschool if I remember correctly. In the old version, at least, she directly tells Dana that William isn't interested in Dana, in this version she tells Dana that William prayed to satan to keep Dana away from jealousy vibes. So we do get a picture William was playing the field.

 

[LHDLLB]

- William's been gone for more than 5 years - as he's been with Miru for five years, three months and eleven days, and she is post him leaving. Whe don't know in this version if they start together in prison, or after. There will be more time than that. Leia hadn't hit puberty when William left, no breasts, it's mentioned William says they're new.

- The heart can be carved at any time. William has shown that he can be genuine, then 180 and be an asshole. It could be after he creampies Mon, right before he flees, having realised he needs to take Leia seriously. We don't know if William and Leia were committed from the flashback until he left, but in the monthiversary flashback, William's an asshole, so it's likely the heart was at a later point.

- I think that Miru and William meet each other while in prison. When we are at the farm and William and the girls are talking about who is a bigguer slut, Miru makes a comment and William says something of the like of: " we fucked right after I..." and trails off, Miru covers for him saying " right after our first date". My believe is that he was gonna say "right after I got out of prison", if I am right they either meet each other right after he leaves town or while he is in prison.

- The heart could be carved at any time, but my take from the scene and the context of William remembering it was that the heart was the gift that he gave Leia for their monthversary, she asked something from the heart so she gave her a heart with their names.

 

[BobTheDuck]

- I think that Miru and William meet each other while in prison. When we are at the farm and William and the girls are talking about who is a bigguer slut, Miru makes a comment and William says something of the like of: " we fucked right after I..." and trails off, Miru covers for him saying " right after our first date". My believe is that he was gonna say "right after I got out of prison", if I am right they either meet each other right after he leaves town or while he is in prison.

- The heart could be carved at any time, but my take from the scene and the context of William remembering it was that the heart was the gift that he gave Leia for their monthversary, she asked something from the heart so she gave her a heart with their names.

Those are my thoughts too, but currently we have no direct indication. Prior to the rework they met in prison, but now, we don't know, because there's also Daphne's story to consider. We do know that Willi and Miru both have been involved in shady business, so it's likely still the case. Regards the heart, that's the most likely, followed by Willi not being faithful. It feels like he left not long after doing Mon, and we have stories of he and Dana dry humping, and Leia trying to make things awkward. The problem I have with that is Willi remembers and thinks Leia will see it as special, but if he dry humped Dana and creampied Mon after that, he really was the utter ass. He's only interested in the new Monster Basher Brutal 3000, I mean who wouldn't be? So it doesn't make sense that flashback is right before he leaves based on his lack of maturity, and Leia's lack of boobs (as women mature earlier than men) and there being only 9 seconds difference in age.

 

[LHDLLB]

Those are my thoughts too, but currently we have no direct indication. Prior to the rework they met in prison, but now, we don't know, because there's also Daphne's story to consider. We do know that Willi and Miru both have been involved in shady business, so it's likely still the case. Regards the heart, that's the most likely, followed by Willi not being faithful. It feels like he left not long after doing Mon, and we have stories of he and Dana dry humping, and Leia trying to make things awkward. The problem I have with that is Willi remembers and thinks Leia will see it as special, but if he dry humped Dana and creampied Mon after that, he really was the utter ass. He's only interested in the new Monster Basher Brutal 3000, I mean who wouldn't be? So it doesn't make sense that flashback is right before he leaves based on his lack of maturity, and Leia's lack of boobs (as women mature earlier than men) and there being only 9 seconds difference in age.

We know what Daphne jobs is ? I get the felling she is a lawyer, but I don't think the game says so. If it is the case, Daphne may be the one who got him out of jail, we know that there is some history with her and William, I can see it working. Yeah, I feel the flashback is a while earlier, and William is a utter ass. It don't make sense be right before he leaves, it has to be while they are kid enough to Leia be flat and William be so childish, his lacking of maturity is what redeems him in my eyes a bit, I don't think that he had a ideia of what he was assigning. As I said, the timeline is super compressed so is hard to pinpoint everything, between Leia and William starting dating and him leaving can not be more than 3 years top. So:

- 1ª years: William and Leia are "dating" and everything is fine

- 2ª year: William starts catch the eyes of other girls and think he is the MC of some AVN and will have a harem of 15 women by the ripe age of 18. Leia jealousy starts to creepy in and she becomes more unhinged.

- 3ª year: everything goes to shit. Leia is completely unhinged, Katie finds out what the Twins are up to, and William discovers that his pull out game still needs improving. Realizes that he does not lives in a ICSTOR game but now Katie is ready to fuck them.

I can see 2ª/3ª being compressed. About the maturity bit, I find that is worth point out, that there is a big difference between a 15 years old and a 17/18 year old, so maybe at that point William still is much immature but 6 month to a year later he has a different mentality.

 

[BobTheDuck]

We know what Daphne jobs is ? I get the felling she is a lawyer, but I don't think the game says so. If it is the case, Daphne may be the one who got him out of jail, we know that there is some history with her and William, I can see it working. Yeah, I feel the flashback is a while earlier, and William is a utter ass. It don't make sense be right before he leaves, it has to be while they are kid enough to Leia be flat and William be so childish, his lacking of maturity is what redeems him in my eyes a bit, I don't think that he had a ideia of what he was assigning. As I said, the timeline is super compressed so is hard to pinpoint everything, between Leia and William starting dating and him leaving can not be more than 3 years top. So:

- 1ª years: William and Leia are "dating" and everything is fine

- 2ª year: William starts catch the eyes of other girls and think he is the MC of some AVN and will have a harem of 15 women by the ripe age of 18. Leia jealousy starts to creepy in and she becomes more unhinged.

- 3ª year: everything goes to shit. Leia is completely unhinged, Katie finds out what the Twins are up to, and William discovers that his pull out game still needs improving. Realizes that he does not lives in a ICSTOR game but now Katie is ready to fuck them.

I can see 2ª/3ª being compressed. About the maturity bit, I find that is worth point out, that there is a big difference between a 15 years old and a 17/18 year old, so maybe at that point William still is much immature but 6 month to a year later he has a different mentality.

My point about Leia - it is completely unreasonable to assume she is flat chested at 17 - William left before she got boobs. We see her anorexic in a flashback, not sunken, but still undeveloped, not much older than the monthiversary flashback. We have to assume William left as a teenager.

Regards, Daphne, the game doesn't need more lawyers - Dana is one, Elena is likely to still be one (as her original role was the prosecuting lawyer that Willi needs Dana to defend him from). Maybe a social worker, and she helped him find his balance? Maybe she has no professional role in what happened, but was the girl whose family got him jailed in a slight change from the original? We have nothing to go on other than we see her in an office and she smokes when stressed.

It'll be interesting to find out some of these juicy details in the next release. We won't get them all, but something more at least.

 

[LHDLLB]

My point about Leia - it is completely unreasonable to assume she is flat chested at 17 - William left before she got boobs. We see her anorexic in a flashback, not sunken, but still undeveloped, not much older than the monthiversary flashback. We have to assume William left as a teenager.

Regards, Daphne, the game doesn't need more lawyers - Dana is one, Elena is likely to still be one (as her original role was the prosecuting lawyer that Willi needs Dana to defend him from). Maybe a social worker, and she helped him find his balance? Maybe she has no professional role in what happened, but was the girl whose family got him jailed in a slight change from the original? We have nothing to go on other than we see her in an office and she smokes when stressed.

It'll be interesting to find out some of these juicy details in the next release. We won't get them all, but something more at least.

I was assuming that the flashback happen around 14 maybe 15 and William leaves around 17/18. I am no biologist, but a flat chested 15 years old is not unreasonable in my point of view, and they don't grow over night, maybe William leaves right around the time they began to show up but are not as big as they are now. When you say teenager you mean what age ? I can't see William leaving before 16 at minimum, if so he had a real wild adolescence, still there is the question of the prison. He seemed to have been jailed right after he runs way, would he have gone to prison if he was a minor ?

Yeah, I agree is one too many lawyers but at the same time is the only thing I can come up with. I like the idea of social worker, but she seems to young to that, I have considered that her family helped him. Young man lost in the world, gets helped by two good Christians and fascinates their protected daughter, but don't sits right with me,

I really hope that at least the Leia relationship gets a bit more clear. Even if it raises 10 more questions, some answers would be welcomed.

 

[99PSYCHO99]

I played this a while back and resumed from a save i had. can someone give me a summery of the what is the relation between each character to the MC. With the patch ON