VN Ren'Py Where It All Began [Ch. 3 Full] [Oceanlab]

[Maviarab]

These changes are merely being done to circumvent the incest issue so he can keep kowtowing to publishers.

But we know they aren't.

1. Neither steam...nor Gog...care about incest (currently at least).
2. Leia is still his sister.

So, from those two 'facts' (and I've been burned here before, but will say it again regardless), we can conclude the following:

1. It has nothing to do with the incest issue.
Else:
2. Leia is no longer a LI.

There is no number 3.

 

[RNasc4444]

But we know they aren't.

1. Neither steam...nor Gog...care about incest (currently at least).
2. Leia is still his sister.

So, from those two 'facts' (and I've been burned here before, but will say it again regardless), we can conclude the following:

1. It has nothing to do with the incest issue.
Else:
2. Leia is no longer a LI.

There is no number 3.

Don't be disingenuous Mavi... You know damn well Patreon does care about incest. And Ocean knows too since WiAB was banned from there. I don't know how he will tackle the Leia issue, maybe delay any sort of sexual content for the foreseeable future.

It's crystal clear that he intends to streamline both WiAB and SG. He clearly does not want to keep publishing different versions of the game for each platform depending on their TOS because he fucking knows they can change their minds at any point and ban the game.

He wants a single version of both games that complies to the TOS of all platforms where he publishes the game. That's what pisses me off. Anyone with integrity and true love for their story would look for a distribution means that fits their game. Ocean chose to fit his games to the distribution platforms. All power to him, make that money. I just will never be able to support him myself.

 

[Dr.TSoni]

2. Leia is no longer a LI.

Honestly I don't think it's even possible, she's not my favorite character but I imagine she's in the top 3 of the most popular waifus in this game

 

[GetOutOfMyLab]

Honestly I don't think it's even possible, she's not my favorite character but I imagine she's in the top 3 of the most popular waifus in this game

I can't imagine Ocean would burn Leia fans that badly... but then again... it is Ocean. She's not my favorite, but I still wanna hit it.

 

[Maviarab]

Don't be disingenuous Mavi... You know damn well Patreon does care about incest.

I'm not being, just stating facts you clearly do not want to accept. Patreon doesn't matter....it's not on there anymore is it? So again, can only conclude, if incest is the real issue (and he future proofing any Steam/Gog issues) and he doesn't even want any sniff of it at all (conversation or otherwise) in SG (because...Patreon)...that only leads us back to point 2. Because, you can't remove all trace of incest, and yet keep sis as a love interest.

It's one or the other isn't it?

Honestly I don't think it's even possible, she's not my favorite character but I imagine she's in the top 3 of the most popular waifus in this game

What other conclusion is there?

I can't imagine Ocean would burn Leia fans that badly... but then again... it is Ocean. She's not my favorite, but I still wanna hit it.

Does make you wonder GOoML...

 

[Dr.TSoni]

What other conclusion is there?

In all sincerity I haven't the faintest idea

 

[BobTheDuck]

Don't be disingenuous Mavi... You know damn well Patreon does care about incest. And Ocean knows too since WiAB was banned from there. I don't know how he will tackle the Leia issue, maybe delay any sort of sexual content for the foreseeable future.

It's crystal clear that he intends to streamline both WiAB and SG. He clearly does not want to keep publishing different versions of the game for each platform depending on their TOS because he fucking knows they can change their minds at any point and ban the game.

He wants a single version of both games that complies to the TOS of all platforms where he publishes the game. That's what pisses me off. Anyone with integrity and true love for their story would look for a distribution means that fits their game. Ocean chose to fit his games to the distribution platforms. All power to him, make that money. I just will never be able to support him myself.

Except - he can't publish WiaB on patreon, that option's already gone. Keeping incest in Leia's story line dismisses all the arguments about sanitising if he's keeping Leia as a sister and still a LI. THe only thing is whether she remains a LI. If he's borked it, well... it's his choice ultimately, if he thinks rebooting it for a third time will be more stable....

It's already clear there is romantic interest between Willi and Leia. I can't imagine how he'd spin it without that. Ch4 will let us know if he's keeping Leia as a LI and sister, or whether he's going sanitised.

If he thinks he can clean it up enough for patron and have anything interesting left from the corpse of a neutered and cannabilised script... well, I guess we'll see.

My initial comment is also far from the landlady/tennant comment - I was more providing context to someone who doesn't seem to have caught on to Ocean's recent news. The aesthetics of how this change plays out will be watched closely.

To be honest, I only really care that Katie is feisty and doesn't put on the pounds, and Wiliam gets to be some sort of GI Joe gangsta bro. Thta's enough for me to enjoy - still better than a significant number of tropes used as plot lines in the latest releases here.

 

[RNasc4444]

I'm not being, just stating facts you clearly do not want to accept. Patreon doesn't matter....it's not on there anymore is it? So again, can only conclude, if incest is the real issue (and he future proofing any Steam/Gog issues) and he doesn't even want any sniff of it at all (conversation or otherwise) in SG (because...Patreon)...that only leads us back to point 2.

Actually you're right. I'm not gonna delete my post and I 100% still believe and mean everything I said but the Leia issue, as it stands, provides a strong counter-argument.

There is no doubt in my mind that incest is the reason for these changes. There is no doubt in my mind that the original story involved people from SG being children of an incestuous relationship and that is why the relationships changed/are changing. Making the twins adopted simplifies things. All he has to do now is make sure that no one in either game is the biological child of both Willi and Leia.

Problem solved.

 

[BobTheDuck]

Actually you're right. I'm not gonna delete my post and I 100% still believe and mean everything I said but the Leia issue, as it stands, provides a strong counter-argument.

There is no doubt in my mind that incest is the reason for these changes. There is no doubt in my mind that the original story involved people from SG being children of an incestuous relationship and that is why the relationships changed/are changing. Making the twins adopted simplifies things. All he has to do now is make sure that no one in either game is the biological child of both Willi and Leia.

Problem solved.

I do agree with this logic, Ocean's reference to season 2 makes me think his reason is SG season 2, not WiaB S2, and possibly making Ayua a LI, with her more 'promiscuous' attire. But this is all unknown, and we'll see it play out. If the new story is compelling, I'm fine with it. Compelling can be so many different things ...mostly Katie though.

 

[Maviarab]

Compelling can be so many different things ...mostly Katie though.

Katie right now (along with Kat) is the defining reason to stay interested in this. I was a never a Leia fan anyway but if he does gut this and strike her off as a LI, it will just be another nail in the coffin of this VN...which would be a real shame.

When I start saying shit like that....you need to start worrying.

 

[RNasc4444]

Katie right now (along with Kat) is the defining reason to stay interested in this. I was a never a Leia fan anyway but if he does gut this and strike her off as a LI, it will just be another nail in the coffin of this VN...which would be a real shame.

When I start saying shit like that....you need to start worrying.

Don't think that will happen. Even Ocean must realize how strong and engaging the current dynamic is between Katie and William.

What you, Bob, myself and every other Katie fan should be worried about is her size in future renders given Ocean's tendencies to add volume to female characters. Thankfully we all know she will eventually turn out to be a normal sized/shaped, extremely hot 40 year old.

 

[BobTheDuck]

Katie right now (along with Kat) is the defining reason to stay interested in this. I was a never a Leia fan anyway but if he does gut this and strike her off as a LI, it will just be another nail in the coffin of this VN...which would be a real shame.

When I start saying shit like that....you need to start worrying.

I'm most keen on the building empire aspect, shadow ops with Miru side of things. It it's well done of course. If it goes at lease a little Natural Born Killers, I think that would still keep me engaged. Also, Daphne'sm story. I really want to know what her deal is and why Willi's moving hit's her so hard. Ocean's focused so hard on Leia being cold and remote so far, it's hard to regret what ever he does to her path right now. Katie is the only one reaaly flirting, maybe Gina. SO there's no real sexual tension except from Katie (Helen's vibe feels tacked on and like a trope).

 

[Dr.TSoni]

What you, Bob, myself and every other Katie fan should be worried about is her size in future renders given Ocean's tendencies to add volume to female characters. Thankfully we all know she will eventually turn out to be a normal sized/shaped, extremely hot 40 year old.

Before Ocean changes her

 

[LHDLLB]

I'm most keen on the building empire aspect, shadow ops with Miru side of things. It it's well done of course. If it goes at lease a little Natural Born Killers, I think that would still keep me engaged. Also, Daphne'sm story. I really want to know what her deal is and why Willi's moving hit's her so hard. Ocean's focused so hard on Leia being cold and remote so far, it's hard to regret what ever he does to her path right now. Katie is the only one reaaly flirting, maybe Gina. SO there's no real sexual tension except from Katie (Helen's vibe feels tacked on and like a trope).

You mean there is no sexual tension between William and Leia ?

 

[Darth Helmet]

Before Ocean changes her

I sensed a disturbance in the schwartz. Or is it something else thanks to that picture?

 

[BobTheDuck]

You mean there is no sexual tension between William and Leia ?

There's tension there, but it feels far more like aggression than sexual. William is only slighly flirty in a couple of moments, whereas almost every interaction with Katie has multiple moments of flirting from both sides, depending on what you choose.

 

[LHDLLB]

There's tension there, but it feels far more like aggression than sexual. William is only slighly flirty in a couple of moments, whereas almost every interaction with Katie has multiple moments of flirting from both sides, depending on what you choose.

I don't quite agree, I think that it is more of a back and forth. She is aggressive than flirty, then cold, back to aggressive. For me demonstrates that she does not know how to deal with William, how to behave because she is unsure of what she wants. But there is much sexual tension, from the pool talk at Ch1 to the police station talk in Ch3.While Kate is more constant, they are constantly teasing each other.

 

[sorco2003]

I don't quite agree, I think that it is more of a back and forth. She is aggressive than flirty, then cold, back to aggressive. For me demonstrates that she does not know how to deal with William, how to behave because she is unsure of what she wants. But there is much sexual tension, from the pool talk at Ch1 to the police station talk in Ch3.While Kate is more constant, they are constantly teasing each other.

On the one hand I can see (we really have to forget everything we think we know) what Bob says. If you take away the info that they had a love/sexual relationship, would any of that be noticeable by cutting half a scene and about 15 dialogues?

 

[LHDLLB]

On the one hand I can see (we really have to forget everything we think we know) what Bob says. If you take away the info that they had a love/sexual relationship, would any of that be noticeable by cutting half a scene and about 15 dialogues?

I really don't know. Possibly ? Is hard because I can't forget what I know, so I can't really truthfully answer the question. I think that even if I could forget what I know and Ocean changes the script, there still would be a hole in the story. Maybe it is a Theseus Ship situation, how much can a story change and still be the same story ? Remove Leia as a LI, completely changes her as a character and the story, at least from my perspective. So if Ocean decides to go this route, this interactions will not be simply
recontextualized, they will be out of place, comments like: " how does she dare takes what is mine" and others, even the frame of the scenes... I don't know if is my knowledge is tainting my view or not. As the game currently is thought, I would argue that there is plenty of sexual tension between the two, about how it will be tomorrow, only Ocean can say. And maybe not even him.

 

[sorco2003]

I really don't know. Possibly ? Is hard because I can't forget what I know, so I can't really truthfully answer the question. I think that even if I could forget what I know and Ocean changes the script, there still would be a hole in the story. Maybe it is a Theseus Ship situation, how much can a story change and still be the same story ? Remove Leia as a LI, completely changes her as a character and the story, at least from my perspective. So if Ocean decides to go this route, this interactions will not be simply
recontextualized, they will be out of place, comments like: " how does she dare takes what is mine" and others, even the frame of the scenes... I don't know if is my knowledge is tainting my view or not. As the game currently is thought, I would argue that there is plenty of sexual tension between the two, about how it will be tomorrow, only Ocean can say. And maybe not even him.

But those dialogues and interactions would not exist, the dialogues will change, maybe some scenes will change. What we mean is, it's too easy to rewrite the story so that it only seems that Leia is angry with her brother for abandoning her, and not for anything else. Anyway, we have to wait, nothing is written yet, maybe by January or February we will have the answers.