VN Ren'Py Where It All Began [Ch. 3 Full] [Oceanlab]

[Verbalvonitcomet]

You wrote enough to deserve a real answer, this is the secondary project (in every sense, although it was the first to be born) of the developer. Given that circumstance, and having lost the patreon page, the development that was already slow, let's say it became a little slower. We suppose in the optimistic vision that in December there will be an up date, this new up date will be released for Steam as early access.

Thanks for the reply znd I will be looking to steam for updates.

 

[Maviarab]

While Katie, was just uninteresting to me, can't not say exactly why but she never clicked with it. I like New Katie more though, and while she still is not high on my list

 

[cmonn]

update when?

 

[BobTheDuck]

update when?

Hasn't changed from last time you asked. There's also a reply on this page 3 posts up to someone already answering this exact question.

 

[Dr.TSoni]

...until Mon. I'm sure there are other events, like what he did to the bullies. As far as Leia and William being adopted or foster kids, that is a perfect way to develop their pettiness, as maladjusted foster kids, who resent being outsiders. I really think that's the way Ocean will go, with the tension with Katie being the natural born daughter, while William and Leia feel the need to protect their separate identity.

But while this explains their pettiness it makes it more confusing why William should care about Helen's fate

 

[BobTheDuck]

But while this explains their pettiness it makes it more confusing why William should care about Helen's fate

Because she raised him, regardless of whatever label is on their relationship. Some people can't wait to run from their parents, some people are indifferent to blood ties, and some people blood relations flip a switch. Everyone approaches all their relationships differently. I mean why does William care about Daphne? They're equally not related - they shared for.mative experiences (that we're yet to find out). There are years of formative experiences that William shared with Helen and Dylan. Dylan gets all teary about William being back (I'm still taking the relationship change on the face value that Ocean's not going to change renders, just script to accomodate) for example, just like William gets all teary about calling Daphne.

We have barely seen any of the formative experiences or hat them explained, I don't see any major obstacle to William caring fiercely about Helen.

 

[CWIPS]

Does the game really start with Miru and the MC sitting at home or is that just the latest chapter? I don't see links to download any prior chapters in the OP?

 

[BobTheDuck]

Does the game really start with Miru and the MC sitting at home or is that just the latest chapter? I don't see links to download any prior chapters in the OP?

Yes, that's the opening scene.

Edit: provided you mean their gun fight in their apartment that ends up with a sex scene.

 

[CWIPS]

Yes, that's the opening scene.

Edit: provided you mean their gun fight in their apartment that ends up with a sex scene.

Yep, that's it. Thanks, the way the story is working out showed there was a lot of backstory and that's not even counting he and Miru together, so I thought there was something I was missing and was scratching my head at the OP. Cheers!

 

[RNasc4444]

But while this explains their pettiness it makes it more confusing why William should care about Helen's fate

What do you mean?!?!?!? She's his and Leia's landlady! Isn't that enough? They were allowed to live rent free in a nice house with strangers that took care of them. Can you imagine the financial burden alone for 2 young kids? I wouldn't give Jabba my kidney or anything but I'd gladly drop by and stay at the house again for a few weeks to help out.

Even though she's not actually disabled or anything and can still do everything she was doing before... Even though there really isn't anything I could do for her... Even though we aren't related... Even though...yeah I dunno. Beats me honestly, I can't make sense of it. Let's go with what Bob said. Suspension of disbelief and the power of love can explain anything

 

[Dr.TSoni]

Because she raised him, regardless of whatever label is on their relationship. Some people can't wait to run from their parents, some people are indifferent to blood ties, and some people blood relations flip a switch. Everyone approaches all their relationships differently. I mean why does William care about Daphne? They're equally not related - they shared for.mative experiences (that we're yet to find out). There are years of formative experiences that William shared with Helen and Dylan. Dylan gets all teary about William being back (I'm still taking the relationship change on the face value that Ocean's not going to change renders, just script to accomodate) for example, just like William gets all teary about calling Daphne.

We have barely seen any of the formative experiences or hat them explained, I don't see any major obstacle to William caring fiercely about Helen.

This theory implies a certain sense of non-belonging which in turn implies a certain lack of family relationship

What do you mean?!?!?!? She's his and Leia's landlady! Isn't that enough? They were allowed to live rent free in a nice house with strangers that took care of them. Can you imagine the financial burden alone for 2 young kids? I wouldn't give Jabba my kidney or anything but I'd gladly drop by and stay at the house again for a few weeks to help out.

Even though she's not actually disabled or anything and can still do everything she was doing before... Even though there really isn't anything I could do for her... Even though we aren't related... Even though...yeah I dunno. Beats me honestly, I can't make sense of it. Let's go with what Bob said. Suspension of disbelief and the power of love can explain anything

 

[BobTheDuck]

This theory implies a certain sense of non-belonging which in turn implies a certain lack of family relationship


View attachment 4047072

Non-belonging? Really? I'd say I'm promoting the opposite - there is that saying "home is where the heart is". Consider the friendship of GIlgamesh and Enkidu, or the reason Oedipius fled his foster parents. Not all affection in the world is one size.

 

[RNasc4444]

Non-belonging? Really? I'd say I'm promoting the opposite - there is that saying "home is where the heart is". Consider the friendship of GIlgamesh and Enkidu, or the reason Oedipius fled his foster parents. Not all affection in the world is one size.

Despite all my joking around I can kinda see both sides but we'll have to see how Ocean deals with it. I'm gonna play from the start again when the next update drops and I'll give my honest opinion after.

Given what we know right now and Ocean's track record, I think this is gonna go the way SG went with the MC and Nami's relationship. A complete shitshow devoid of any common sense, logic or continuity. But hey maybe he rewrites the script for this one and we won't be forced to turn off our brains to enjoy the story

I'm still puzzled regarding this decision though. To retain the sibling bond between Willi and Leia but detach it from the rest of the family. What is the point? There is no shot he removes Leia from the LI list, right? Some patrons would be furious, no? I personally don't care, Leia interests me about as much as Jabba the Mute does, but I still want the damn story to be grounded and logical.

 

[Maviarab]

What do you mean?!?!?!? She's his and Leia's landlady! Isn't that enough? They were allowed to live rent free in a nice house with strangers that took care of them. Can you imagine the financial burden alone for 2 young kids? I wouldn't give Jabba my kidney or anything but I'd gladly drop by and stay at the house again for a few weeks to help out.

Even though she's not actually disabled or anything and can still do everything she was doing before... Even though there really isn't anything I could do for her... Even though we aren't related... Even though...yeah I dunno. Beats me honestly, I can't make sense of it. Let's go with what Bob said. Suspension of disbelief and the power of love can explain anything

There is no shot he removes Leia from the LI list, right?

In my own personal opinion, the fans of this are already at stretching point. While I also don't care too much about Leia (as a LI)...he will kill this VN completely if he goes that route and honestly, with all his anti-incest future-proofing of late, I'll say it again, there really is only...one logical conclusion....

 

[Dr.TSoni]

Despite all my joking around I can kinda see both sides but we'll have to see how Ocean deals with it. I'm gonna play from the start again when the next update drops and I'll give my honest opinion after.

Given what we know right now and Ocean's track record, I think this is gonna go the way SG went with the MC and Nami's relationship. A complete shitshow devoid of any common sense, logic or continuity. But hey maybe he rewrites the script for this one and we won't be forced to turn off our brains to enjoy the story

I'm still puzzled regarding this decision though. To retain the sibling bond between Willi and Leia but detach it from the rest of the family. What is the point? There is no shot he removes Leia from the LI list, right? Some patrons would be furious, no? I personally don't care, Leia interests me about as much as Jabba the Mute does, but I still want the damn story to be grounded and logical.

The whole package, although I'm not sure about starting again (although I probably will)

 

[LHDLLB]

Some very nice perspectives. I think when we hear what is said at Leia's house (presumably the opening scene of the next chapter), we'll get some more background. Also further reminiscing with Gina and Dana will reveal some of Leia's meanness towards anyone she suspected of trying to take what she considers hers. Interesting how she seems to respect Miru, even before the fight, there was just awkwardness and coldness, but I don't recall any directed malice. As a character I find her interesting, as a LI not so much, even in the old version, she seemed more in love with the past than with William in a way, it seemed more about living out her longed for fantasy. I like Katie, because there is the tension without any expectation, and William and her can't seem to either stay angry at each other, ignore each other, and they keep pretending the other is evil, while stealing glances.

I think if we look at Mon being a friend of the Zane's from childhood (why was she at Kat's party otherwise? WHy do they consider her part of their circle?), and that Leia sent William because she wants William to now seduce Mon, either completely innocent or nefarious mastermind could work. My only thing against her utter innocence is the blind eye she turns to the Zanes - sure she grew up with them, but she knows without doubt Joe's in prison, and Leia's doing very questionable things. If she were squeaky clean, she'd be staying away from difficult friendships that could tarnish her career. But Abigail is Helen's friend, so maybe she's working for Abigail to keep a low key eye out for trouble. I don't think she's a plant by the shadowy elites pulling strings, most likely colluding with Abigail off the books to keep Helen safe.

Oh I fully expect next chapter to shed some light over Leia, both young and older, I think she will become more sympathetic once we learn why and what she went through. I would not say she starts respecting Miru, she starts completely ignoring her, treating her as a annoyance, " did you have to bring her up ?". Not to starts a waifu war, but what I find interesting about Leia is the very conflicting feeling that she has, on the first time we meet her she goes from cold, to mean, to flirtatious, to angry she just don't know how to behave in front of William then we have the scene at her club where she just loses it; and while I agree that Old Leia was kinda of obsessed, new Leia just has so many things happening at once that I am drawn to it . Katie on the other hand just comes across as a attention starved child - with she kinda was- and all the back and forth is very tiresome, I really like Katie when she lets her guard down and is herself but I don't have patience to deal with her behavior.

I like the childhood friend angle, but there is others way to explain their friendship, she might just have be William girlfriend of that month or was Dana friend that is friend to the Zanes and was just kinda included. But what Katie, Dana and Mon has in comum ? all of them had a beef with Leia at some point, still think that childhood friends is the most likely answer but is good to indulge in some crazy conspiracy from time to time.

But Mon does not turns a blind eye, she is very suspicious that Leia had a man killed and is keen to bring her down but she does not has the means, she is friend of Katie and that is that, she is not a family friend I think is more she just part of a group that includes Katie. As I said, I am just suspicious, is not like I think she is the mastermind or something like that, but if she was given the opportunity to fuck Leia over while helping Asavera or the Kryaty would she not ? God knows she has enough reason, and sometimes is all a good person needs to do something bad. A good reason and a moment of weakness. She was not the one who was looking Helen case ? Maybe she really is hiding something. I am just suspicious that there is more in Mon than just the dutiful cop, but we will see.

 

[FatBoizSlim]

I played this game before it got remastered. I haven't been following developer's work before, so I have a question,
is this game going to be updated once a year?

 

[LHDLLB]

I played this game before it got remastered. I haven't been following developer's work before, so I have a question,
is this game going to be updated once a year?

So far it has been so, there is the expectation of a update before ends year but I would not hold my breath on that. Dev has said he s
will upgrade his setup next year so maybe we get more updates per year.

 

[BobTheDuck]

Despite all my joking around I can kinda see both sides but we'll have to see how Ocean deals with it. I'm gonna play from the start again when the next update drops and I'll give my honest opinion after.

Given what we know right now and Ocean's track record, I think this is gonna go the way SG went with the MC and Nami's relationship. A complete shitshow devoid of any common sense, logic or continuity. But hey maybe he rewrites the script for this one and we won't be forced to turn off our brains to enjoy the story

I'm still puzzled regarding this decision though. To retain the sibling bond between Willi and Leia but detach it from the rest of the family. What is the point? There is no shot he removes Leia from the LI list, right? Some patrons would be furious, no? I personally don't care, Leia interests me about as much as Jabba the Mute does, but I still want the damn story to be grounded and logical.

I agree that we have to see. The fact that it is only William and Leia's relationships that have been changed to everyone else, but they stay related, suggests it's more complicated than simple future proofing. It doesn't make sense for them to be confirmed as siblings, as that raises a very big potential flag WITHOUT stating that he's cahnged the LI stories. So right now, WiaB specifically makes itself a target. I'm kinda thinking the flashback and Mon's deflowering are what got it banned personally.

So removing Katie and Helen as blood relatives might be Ocean being Ocean, as the story remains unfuture proof while Leia is related and a LI.

I joked about Leia being a cuckquean and Ocean making her a LI that you can only cuck... no matter what Ocean does though, WiaB will trigger the anti-brigades in puritan central.

View attachment 4047243


In my own personal opinion, the fans of this are already at stretching point. While I also don't care too much about Leia (as a LI)...he will kill this VN completely if he goes that route and honestly, with all his anti-incest future-proofing of late, I'll say it again, there really is only...one logical conclusion....

I see it mostly the same way, but I've always found the story aspect to be more interesting than the relationship aspect. I am really interested in how Leia (presumably) takes over the college and why, what the "all" in the title encompasses etc. In all the AVN's I've played, I've treated the lewd portions as non-canon, as typically the plot works without them because all fetishes are optional - the plot isn't contingent on the lewd choices of the player in most cases. I guess with the issues patreon has with consent, that will be a more widespread phenomenon, despite that not being a direct concern here. I'm still wondering if it's the consequences down the line that Ocean is clearing up, and this will still be wonderfully messy itself like an episode of daytime TV melodrama.

Oh I fully expect next chapter to shed some light over Leia, both young and older, I think she will become more sympathetic once we learn why and what she went through. I would not say she starts respecting Miru, she starts completely ignoring her, treating her as a annoyance, " did you have to bring her up ?". Not to starts a waifu war, but what I find interesting about Leia is the very conflicting feeling that she has, on the first time we meet her she goes from cold, to mean, to flirtatious, to angry she just don't know how to behave in front of William then we have the scene at her club where she just loses it; and while I agree that Old Leia was kinda of obsessed, new Leia just has so many things happening at once that I am drawn to it . Katie on the other hand just comes across as a attention starved child - with she kinda was- and all the back and forth is very tiresome, I really like Katie when she lets her guard down and is herself but I don't have patience to deal with her behavior.

I like the childhood friend angle, but there is others way to explain their friendship, she might just have be William girlfriend of that month or was Dana friend that is friend to the Zanes and was just kinda included. But what Katie, Dana and Mon has in comum ? all of them had a beef with Leia at some point, still think that childhood friends is the most likely answer but is good to indulge in some crazy conspiracy from time to time.

But Mon does not turns a blind eye, she is very suspicious that Leia had a man killed and is keen to bring her down but she does not has the means, she is friend of Katie and that is that, she is not a family friend I think is more she just part of a group that includes Katie. As I said, I am just suspicious, is not like I think she is the mastermind or something like that, but if she was given the opportunity to fuck Leia over while helping Asavera or the Kryaty would she not ? God knows she has enough reason, and sometimes is all a good person needs to do something bad. A good reason and a moment of weakness. She was not the one who was looking Helen case ? Maybe she really is hiding something. I am just suspicious that there is more in Mon than just the dutiful cop, but we will see.

Good points I'll only mention a few things I think, as we've already gone back and forth on the others enough to be clear - Leia's 'respect' for Miru: as opposed to the way Leia treated Dana and Mon, Leia ignores an actual gf, then asks Miru to teach her (yes, the fight is easily showing she sees Miru as a rival). Either Leia has learned to hide her intentions (of course she has), knows that childish deflection and rumours don't solve things (of course she has), or she doesn't know how to deal with an actual rival, and Miru's messed up her plan to get William back to Wollust. I can't recall there being any idea that Leia would know about Miru until William arrives back, so some of Leia's attitude towards him is from him not being single. And by respect, she clearly respects Miru after the fight, like she would respect a lion. Prior to the fight, she is cold, but not specifically antagonistic, looking for ways to separate her from William. It could be that she is shocked to consider William as taken, or that she actually wanted him back primarily to deal with non-lewd issues. It's the same way she expects William to seduce Mon - jealous Leia wouldn't be that calculating, but business, dead-inside Leia is more concerned about getting advantage over her enemies or hindrances, and will use William to further her personal goals. In this sense, she totally disrespects William and sees him as an underling.

I think the way Leia disrespects William (and I mean underestimates, thinks of him as a mathead etc) will have some interesting ramifications. William also thinks of Leia as who she was, but he's keeping his eyes open and searching for the differences. Their meeting at Leia's house will be interesting. I don't think it will be a pure reconciliation, I think there will be unresolved tensions, even if we'll know more about many things.

 

[LHDLLB]

So removing Katie and Helen as blood relatives might be Ocean being Ocean, as the story remains unfuture proof while Leia is related and a LI.

Good points I'll only mention a few things I think, as we've already gone back and forth on the others enough to be clear - Leia's 'respect' for Miru: as opposed to the way Leia treated Dana and Mon, Leia ignores an actual gf, then asks Miru to teach her (yes, the fight is easily showing she sees Miru as a rival). Either Leia has learned to hide her intentions (of course she has), knows that childish deflection and rumours don't solve things (of course she has), or she doesn't know how to deal with an actual rival, and Miru's messed up her plan to get William back to Wollust. I can't recall there being any idea that Leia would know about Miru until William arrives back, so some of Leia's attitude towards him is from him not being single. And by respect, she clearly respects Miru after the fight, like she would respect a lion. Prior to the fight, she is cold, but not specifically antagonistic, looking for ways to separate her from William. It could be that she is shocked to consider William as taken, or that she actually wanted him back primarily to deal with non-lewd issues. It's the same way she expects William to seduce Mon - jealous Leia wouldn't be that calculating, but business, dead-inside Leia is more concerned about getting advantage over her enemies or hindrances, and will use William to further her personal goals. In this sense, she totally disrespects William and sees him as an underling.

I think the way Leia disrespects William (and I mean underestimates, thinks of him as a mathead etc) will have some interesting ramifications. William also thinks of Leia as who she was, but he's keeping his eyes open and searching for the differences. Their meeting at Leia's house will be interesting. I don't think it will be a pure reconciliation, I think there will be unresolved tensions, even if we'll know more about many things.

If I am to make a guess it would be that Ocean saw that Helen path was really hard to pull off if she was blood related in a non-fucked up manner. Fuck your Mom and have it being sexy is really hard, incest stories never really treats blood relations in a real manner because it is not sexy. Now if they are adopted at 6, William lived with her for 10 years before running away, is close enough but not so much that is gross, Helen now is a mother figure with is a lot easier to work through. I still think that SG also had a hand in it, but when if talks about makes certain paths more believable, this is the only think I can think off.

That is fine, but in this instances I do like the back and forth, especially because I find myself agreeing with you more often then not. A good conversations with a different POV is always appreciated. Case in point, I do agree with you on your take over Leia/Miru - really hopes there is a throuple here- just want to point out that is hard to guess what angle Leia is playing because we can't really guess what is on her mind. Leia's interactions with William are all over the place, and I do not think she is faking it, I don't know if she brought William back to get revenge or to fuck his brains out, if she is jealous of Miru or frustrated that she is a complication, if she was just so lonely that she reached out or so desperate that she swallow her pride and asked for help.

I think that so far Leia has tested William, don't think she wants him to fuck Mon, she want to know if she can trust him again, and if she can trust herself with him. Is less that she think low of him and more that she does not knows what to think of him, with makes sense, she may took him at face value at first, but I will be really disappointed if Leia is so easily fooled. Completely reconciliation now would be boring as all hell, no, but it will be the first steps to that and many paths I think - cheating, NTR, open relationship- .