VN Ren'Py Where It All Began [Ch. 3 Full] [Oceanlab]

[yossa999]

Also, because I'm a pedantic sob...and see it's misuse in so many threads on this site:

Kink/fetish.
1. William enjoying being choked while Helen pegs him...that's a kink.
2. William 'needing' to be choked while being pegged by helen to get enjoyment out of it...that's a fetish.

And if you're not enjoing a kink or a fetish, then Patreon allows it!

 

[yossa999]

What do you mean ? All the characters are virgjns

Maybe he means anal virginity

 

[SamualHand]

What do you mean ? All the characters are virgjns

They have never fucked, what is virginity for you? Next important question, can they stay virgin?

 

[LHDLLB]

Maybe he means anal virginity

William lost his when Miru pegged him.

They have never fucked, what is virginity for you? Next important question, can they stay virgin?

Is what I am saying, they all are virgins. Maybe, if they don't have sex they will continue being virgins

 

[yossa999]

William lost his when Miru pegged him.

Or maybe earlier, when Gefritzel wasn't yet very familiar with the house.

 

[sorco2003]

They have never fucked, what is virginity for you? Next important question, can they stay virgin?

In chapter 4, almost at the end, William contracts the dangerous virus "nika01"... Only Miru can't remain a virgin, but all the others can... Even Scar and Helen, both conceived by divine grace.

 

[LHDLLB]

In chapter 4, almost at the end, William contracts the dangerous virus "nika01"... Only Miru can't remain a virgin, but all the others can... Even Scar and Helen, both conceived by divine grace.

You did not played the after credits scene. Miru's hymen got reconstructed and her sexual memory erased as she also has contracted the "Nika01" virus, so she also is a virgin.

Scarlet and Helen were impregnated by the Elder God that lurks beneath Wollust. and inspires all kinds of deviant behavior, change body sizes over night and boost male mass gain.

 

[Miranha157]

Obviously I don't agree at all, each one of us chooses the games to play based on features present in the stories that catch our attention. I don't see you playing WMV or Grandma house, because of their tags and distinctive elements those stories don't catch your attention. When many of us approached WIAB, a constituent element was the incest fetish, and to be more specific, since if anything this industry has specific niches, real incest, no step, no half, no foster.

 

[VicLex22]

By the way, guys, if anyone saved the preview images from the devlog 5 and devlog 4, can you upload them again, please? Looks like the old links are expired.

4K Previews
Dev Log 4


Dev Log 5

 

[SamualHand]

You did not played the after credits scene. Miru's hymen got reconstructed and her sexual memory erased as she also has contracted the "Nika01" virus, so she also is a virgin.

I'm not talking about brain washed virginity.... it's about real one!

Scarlet and Helen were impregnated by the Elder God that lurks beneath Wollust. and inspires all kinds of deviant behavior, change body sizes over night and boost male mass gain.

That sounds acceptable, just there is no need for body size changes and such alike, you can love a virgin for being a virgin.
So MC is also a virgin?!?

 

[LHDLLB]

I'm not talking about brain washed virginity.... it's about real one!



That sounds acceptable, just there is no need for body size changes and such alike, you can love a virgin for being a virgin.
So MC is also a virgin?!?

Man I am sorry, I was kidding. There is no mod and I don't think anyone but Dana is virgin, maybe Katie if you only counts dick in pussy as sex. Also there is no MOD for it, I fear you will have to bear some women with experience.

 

[BobTheDuck]

So I've been busy drinking whisky and missed all this fun. Apologies if I ramble.

The family one. William is not related to anyone but Leia, by law or blood. We know that TOS does not discrimate if there is a "Step" before or not. Making William adopted changes nothing. William can't be related to Helen and fuck her, in any way.

Regarding Nika and Nami that would be fine. But the game does not threats it like we will ruin or friendship

Important thing is the emotional connection. There are families who would kill rather than fuck each other. Does William, care? His tears say yes. His assholeness says no.

I really don't know what to do with this statement. I don't understand why you keep thinking that players only care about this because of the incest angle. Is the concept of a familial relation bond that alien to you? Maybe we like to immerse ourselves in a story and world that seems authentic. Not dive into a porn logic filled novel.

I like to know who the characters are and where they came from. Backstory and lore adds to the experience. We had that prior to the coming changes. Now the flow was disrupted again. And I fear that he'll replace what we had with some moronic AVN trope. Imagine if his solution is to turn the Zane's into more of a clan instead of a family. How fucking retarded would that be?


AHA! I knew it! You are a believer in the Adoption Theory too! I got you now!

But seriously, the reason why I abandoned that theory is that Katie will most likely remain an LI. Blood related or not, if they're adopted, the inquisition may still view them as family. Which can cause problems. Ocean nuked his stories to make sure they'd be bulletproof and safe from the Inquisition in the future. I doubt he would risk it going the adoption route.

I guess this could work, but at this point why even try ? Like, is just semantic, no see she is his guardian not his step mother or mother or whatever so it is fine. It ain't fooling anyone. Just makes things more weird.

Againt the important thing is how the characters value their relationships, not how external people view it. Ocean could write that Katie accuses William of rape with really immature reasoning, and he fled with really immature reaosning. We still don't know why William left in the canon run through. There are plausible ways that still keep the emotions intense, but not the same reasons. Or maybe there are - if Katie accuss William of fiddling Leia, it's still the same reason he left. Essentially yossa is right, people are upset that Helen isn't their mom to bang, and Katie isn't blood. Are thos central to either version of WiaB as a plot, or just as details?

Secondly, I do value that WiaB has had on the whole a far more mature response to incest than is the norm, so I do understand people feeling that Ocean has closed the door on exploring tht territory in a mature manner. That's kind of the only reason I have why the change is bad. But Katie is still Katie regardless to me. If I don't get Ayua or Maja, well, Katie is better than them anyway. I don't need reasons other than her. She'll run ring around Willi which Leia and Helen are too fat to do now. All that eating of theirs while waiting for their content to be updated or some such....

The family relations are not at all just a fetishes. Why on God"s green earth would Helen or Dylan be so devastated that their 16 years old best friend leave town ? Why Katie continued to hang around and seek validation from William and Leia if they are just kids ? Why everyone acuses William to be favoreted by Helen? Sure, fetishes is a element and I fully agree with Socroo but to say that it only existis as a fetishe is not true.

They'd be devastated because they were his legal guardians for probably more than a decade. Would Noji be upset wha happened if NIka disappeared? Of course she would. Noji is not Nika's mom, and never has been - earliest versions still talked about Nika's biological mom dying. So if Noji can care, why wouldn't Helen and Dylan? Some humans feel emotion after a decade of coexistence. They raised Willi and Leia alongside Katie for a long time. Lines blur. Katie is what, 21? Final year? She was 11-12 when William left then. Wiliam might have always been there if he was in Helen and Dylan's guardianship from 3. Someone who's always been there is a huge thing in your life. I miss friends who I've lost touch with after years, it's still raw. People are worth everything and nothing, depending on how you connect.

All this is possible with out boold relations, yes. All of this is not possible if all they only were good old friends. A family relationships is fundamental to the story. Not only as a kinky. That is my point. Can be blood, guardship or a adoptive, a family dynamic is needded. Otherwise this things are almost impossible to explain. Excepet that Ocean all but confimed that there won't be any family relations.

Family is NOT essential to the story. Explain what is impossible. William is contacted by (according to the redacted devlog) his blood relative - the ONLY relative he has, who tells him she needs him to help with the only other people who showed him kindness. What would you do? Like Willi, who has income regardless of where he lives as an author? Travel for a holiday to see what's going down, then realise you lost part of yourself as a child by fleeing the only care you knew out of fear?

It's still fucking heavy shit. It simply doesn't tickle the fantasy that people imagine.

 

[Maviarab]

She'll run ring around Willi which Leia and Helen are too fat to do now. All that eating of theirs while waiting for their content to be updated or some such....

Drunk Bob is definitely drunk Bob

 

[Joshy92]

Ocean obviously thought incest was important enough to add it before Patreon came calling and made him change his story.

 

[Krytax123]

I mean, I'm not criticizing but I really don't understand why the blood relationships are important for this story.

For example, there is a game where MC lived in a foster family when he was a teenager. He became very attached to them and considered them his family and thought he was as important to them as they were to him. But as soon as the wife managed to get pregnant (not from MC, damn perverts) and the foster couple began to preparing for the birth of their own child - they threw MC out of house into the cold without regret!

This event from the past became the basis for many problems and conflicts in MC's life. It explains why he can't build serious relationships in the present, why he is obsessed with the idea of reuniting with his possible relatives, although next to him are people who have been with him all his life, always treated him like family and whom he hurts with his neglect.

I can understand why it's important to a plot like this, but WiAB... The only purpose of their relationship is an incest fetish and nothing more. Well, bummer on you, uncle-daddies.

As for the explanation of the changes, this sounds like the simplest thing, to me. Although I am not a much of storyteller, but what prevents even me from coming up with any explanation after the fact.

Who said that Lord Zane isn't Zane now? Who stripped him of his title?

He's not blood-related to Helen Zane, so what? They took the twins from orphanage as their foster children and gave them their name. Maybe Willie and Leia don't even know who their real parents are or what their last name is. So they chose Zane with the consent of the foster family, that sounds better than Doe.

What a plot hole, my ass...

Come on, be serious.

And if its about patreon, any kind of adoption storyline wont be there either or it will still be incest, blood relation or not. Not even discussing the fact that there probably (?) still is incest with Leia? And you cant just "chose" a name without adoption or anything at least not where im from lol

That said if they turn out to be simply adopted, im completly fine with that but wouldnt see the need for the change so i doubt its just that.

But there is a lot of emphasis on the Zane name in both titles and i think a "dynasty" like that with multiple (possible) members who are interesting is great for a story.

So i STRONGLY disagree that the only purpose of the family/relationships is a incest purpose, its the entire foundation of the story imo and at least to me its partially what makes wiab/sg special, the connections (and im not talking only about incest -_-). Even simply things like Ayua being a Zane increase the quality of these avns/universe for me, everything seems more connected and alive.

It would have even worked if William and Leia are the Zane's and Katie, Helen and Dylan are not but apparently its not like that.

Im not even into incest and would for example NEVER play a Helen path (yuck yuck yuck partent/child incest, sorry The enjoyers) and i prefer normal family setups over incest ridden ones.

BUT what i really dislike is storys who entirely disfigure their relationships/familys just to force the incest into it. This story made sense considering the relationships while the story doesnt make any sense anymore without the relationships.

Im just kinda afraid it keeps going as it is (without incest patch) and we get just more "no-explanations" about who these guys all are to each other. It just makes the story kinda dumb in cases like that imo.

It wouldnt have been needed for william to come back to a family in the first place, it could have simply been friends he has a strong bond/connection to who need help or whatever or even his criminal ties pulling him back.

 

[Allenebs]

It seems like a sneak attack. This morning, in almost every thread I follow, there are a couple of guys asking "update when?"
If this isn't a flashmob, the only answer you can receive: "when it's ready."
Almost no developer (except for a few well-organized guys) can plan their releases in such a way that they can announce them several months in advance. So the question makes no sense. Sorry for the bitter truth.

Ok, this is a load of shit. Production is production and making these processes more efficient is what I've done professionally for over a decade. If you're a first time dev, yeah, a deadline is hard to set until your initial release. When you have months or years of development, you very much can set easily achieved deadlines. Every established dev has a rough target for each update as to how many renders and animations and even the fans can track things like average renders per day. The average renders per day is the most useful metric here.

Lets say you're absolute max number of renders you'd be willing to put in an update is 2,000, but most of your updates have 1400-1800. Give yourself a buffer of 5%, meaning you're "targeting' 2100 renders. You're maintained a consistent 3.5 renders per day, on average. Meaning your next update is likely going to take 600 days. (This is a high number of renders per update and a very low average renders per day). This gives you more than a 15% dev time buffer, which is actually massive. And this gives you a TON of options. Meaning even something like a death in the immediately family wouldn't impact your targeted release date even if you have several other issues. It's enough time to throw in a couple "bonus episodes," or include an abnormal number of animations while running into unexpected coding errors. No one will ever be upset about you finishing before your deadline, but there is no excuse for failing to hit a deadline you set yourself.

There are many industries which have annual hard launch dates that they can not miss without massively impacting our economy. For example, millions of people would starve to death if one of these deadlines were missed, but they typically allow more than a 2 month buffer.

 

[LHDLLB]

So I've been busy drinking whisky and missed all this fun. Apologies if I ramble.



Important thing is the emotional connection. There are families who would kill rather than fuck each other. Does William, care? His tears say yes. His assholeness says no.




Againt the important thing is how the characters value their relationships, not how external people view it. Ocean could write that Katie accuses William of rape with really immature reasoning, and he fled with really immature reaosning. We still don't know why William left in the canon run through. There are plausible ways that still keep the emotions intense, but not the same reasons. Or maybe there are - if Katie accuss William of fiddling Leia, it's still the same reason he left. Essentially yossa is right, people are upset that Helen isn't their mom to bang, and Katie isn't blood. Are thos central to either version of WiaB as a plot, or just as details?

Secondly, I do value that WiaB has had on the whole a far more mature response to incest than is the norm, so I do understand people feeling that Ocean has closed the door on exploring tht territory in a mature manner. That's kind of the only reason I have why the change is bad. But Katie is still Katie regardless to me. If I don't get Ayua or Maja, well, Katie is better than them anyway. I don't need reasons other than her. She'll run ring around Willi which Leia and Helen are too fat to do now. All that eating of theirs while waiting for their content to be updated or some such....



They'd be devastated because they were his legal guardians for probably more than a decade. Would Noji be upset wha happened if NIka disappeared? Of course she would. Noji is not Nika's mom, and never has been - earliest versions still talked about Nika's biological mom dying. So if Noji can care, why wouldn't Helen and Dylan? Some humans feel emotion after a decade of coexistence. They raised Willi and Leia alongside Katie for a long time. Lines blur. Katie is what, 21? Final year? She was 11-12 when William left then. Wiliam might have always been there if he was in Helen and Dylan's guardianship from 3. Someone who's always been there is a huge thing in your life. I miss friends who I've lost touch with after years, it's still raw. People are worth everything and nothing, depending on how you connect.



Family is NOT essential to the story. Explain what is impossible. William is contacted by (according to the redacted devlog) his blood relative - the ONLY relative he has, who tells him she needs him to help with the only other people who showed him kindness. What would you do? Like Willi, who has income regardless of where he lives as an author? Travel for a holiday to see what's going down, then realise you lost part of yourself as a child by fleeing the only care you knew out of fear?

It's still fucking heavy shit. It simply doesn't tickle the fantasy that people imagine.

I am sorry Bob but I am unsure as where we disagree. I am not saying that they have to be blood related to the story make sense, but they need to be related. Maybe I am the odd one here but you don't leave your whole life behind because your childhood friend asked you. As I said, it does not need to be blood, can be whatever but they need to see each other as family. Helen as a mother figure, Dylan as a father figure and Katie as a sister. I am not denying the kinky part of it but if William has no relation to them beyond, "they are good people", is strange.

As Nojiko, that is not the best example. That does not make sense. We let it pass but your landlady does not pays for your medical bills. Do you understand my problem ? Nojiko is easy to ignore, mostly, but you can't write a family drama with out a family. Say that William does not calls Helen mom, there is not need she is his guardian, but she needs to act like a mom. The awkwardness of wanting to fuck her still will existi but a giant taboo is no longer there, and I am fine with that. But it will matter to TOS ? If it walks like duck ? talks like a duck ? fucks like a duck ? I don't know.

Again I am not complaining because a kinky is not in the game. I am unsure as how a change will affect the story as there is no almost family, you are family or not. Again not talking about blood here.

 

[BobTheDuck]

Come on, be serious.

And if its about patreon, any kind of adoption storyline wont be there either or it will still be incest, blood relation or not. Not even discussing the fact that there probably (?) still is incest with Leia? And you cant just "chose" a name without adoption or anything at least not where im from lol

That said if they turn out to be simply adopted, im completly fine with that but wouldnt see the need for the change so i doubt its just that.

But there is a lot of emphasis on the Zane name in both titles and i think a "dynasty" like that with multiple (possible) members who are interesting is great for a story.

So i STRONGLY disagree that the only purpose of the family/relationships is a incest purpose, its the entire foundation of the story imo and at least to me its partially what makes wiab/sg special, the connections (and im not talking only about incest -_-). Even simply things like Ayua being a Zane increase the quality of these avns/universe for me, everything seems more connected and alive.

It would have even worked if William and Leia are the Zane's and Katie, Helen and Dylan are not but apparently its not like that.

Im not even into incest and would for example NEVER play a Helen path (yuck yuck yuck partent/child incest, sorry The enjoyers) and i prefer normal family setups over incest ridden ones.

BUT what i really dislike is storys who entirely disfigure their relationships/familys just to force the incest into it. This story made sense considering the relationships while the story doesnt make any sense anymore without the relationships.

Im just kinda afraid it keeps going as it is (without incest patch) and we get just more "no-explanations" about who these guys all are to each other. It just makes the story kinda dumb in cases like that imo.

It wouldnt have been needed for william to come back to a family in the first place, it could have simply been friends he has a strong bond/connection to who need help or whatever or even his criminal ties pulling him back.

I mean yeah. 100%. William could be motivated byt he decades of upbringing he had with the Zanes. We done't know adopted or foster, or guradian, legal names or whether Ocean will retroactively make Ayua a Cyrus.

Ocean can reveal anything that hasn't already been revealed in whatever way he sees fit, considering he abandoned the original version of WiaB as poorly written. Whether or not we like the direction he takes with the new version is up to us. But it's false to accuse him of writing a different story when he expressly has said old WiaB isn't canon. We can accuse him of changing the canon of 1-3, but only once 4 is released. Until then, there is no change to measure or compare.

William can be emotional. We see it when he calls Daphne. If he was 100% asshole, well he wouldn't come back for his twin or parents/landlords. He's a caring sort who earns money from a novel ie: he can leave town for a few days on a whim to deal with things. Friends of mine regularly do the road trip excuse to get away from things. The issue of blood or not is a non event for empathy, empathy is based on character, not blood - some people have no empathy for their blood, other people's hearts bleed for the whole world.

ANd yes, we'll probably have to read from the start and pretend it's the first time once Ch4 is released. If it's good and coherent, well, that's the price of playing a game that's released as a work in progress. Thats a quirk/foible of Ocean's writing and development, and I can deal with it as a leech. I'll also pay the minute he puts it up for sale on steam.

"The no explanations" is actually fan expectations that are too impatient for the speed of the story teller, and yes, the speed is a problem. Ocan will explain them in time, or there will be a half assed story people will give up on, simple as that.

 

[Miranha157]

Dude, I'll just say one thing, SG/Wiab/Ocean is worse than crack, you're crazy man, I'm going to disconnect for a while, I'm tired of reading and theorizing. It seems like they're sucking my energy.

 

[BobTheDuck]

I am sorry Bob but I am unsure as where we disagree. I am not saying that they have to be blood related to the story make sense, but they need to be related. Maybe I am the odd one here but you don't leave your whole life behind because your childhood friend asked you. As I said, it does not need to be blood, can be whatever but they need to see each other as family. Helen as a mother figure, Dylan as a father figure and Katie as a sister. I am not denying the kinky part of it but if William has no relation to them beyond, "they are good people", is strange.

As Nojiko, that is not the best example. That does not make sense. We let it pass but your landlady does not pays for your medical bills. Do you understand my problem ? Nojiko is easy to ignore, mostly, but you can't write a family drama with out a family. Say that William does not calls Helen mom, there is not need she is his guardian, but she needs to act like a mom. The awkwardness of wanting to fuck her still will existi but a giant taboo is no longer there, and I am fine with that. But it will matter to TOS ? If it walks like duck ? talks like a duck ? fucks like a duck ? I don't know.

Again I am not complaining because a kinky is not in the game. I am unsure as how a change will affect the story as there is no almost family, you are family or not. Again not talking about blood here.

See the issue is how you percieve other people's motivations. If your twin called you and told you she needed you because your foster mother who raised you from age 3 had an accident, and you didn't have any work contract, just royalties as an income - why the hell wouldn't you go?

I mean, IF the redacted (we're not even certain of this) post is true - Leia and William have the sam relationship they always had, and Ocean changed the others for the sake of the story he wants to tell, because obviously William and Leia are still taboo. So this whole thing of ToS is not relevant. It's because Ocean wrote himself into a corner, and decided differently.

I mentioned this elsewhere, bet a couple of day ago someone I met once posted on social media they they were going to kill themselves. I found out too late, they were 5 min from my house. I saw the post 7 hours after. Someone who didn't know them dropped everything and drove over, kept them from killing themselves. There is kindness in the world (the person survived okay btw). People are triggered to act by all kinds of things. If a stranger can drop everything to save a life, I would drop my shit and try, I just found out too late to be useful.

I guess what I'm saying is that a story doesn't have to follow our expectations - none of us have all of what we want in life. William, can be flighty and just get in the car because of emotions. Logic is a poor way to understand human relationships.