VN Ren'Py Where It All Began [S1 Ch.4 Fix 1 Steam] [Oceanlab]

[Allenebs]

What you can't argue against is that the game up to this point was literally based around family dynamics.

Yes and no. I'd certainly agree that Helen seems to hold a motherly role to these characters, but that's not uncommon among groups of friends and their parents. One parent does tend to end up spending far more time with the kids than the rest and comes to fill that role for the whole group. Katie and Leia? I don't think Leia has been defined well enough to conclude anything beyond her personality. There is certainly an emotional carryover from the original between William and Leia and William and Katie. There is still plenty of room for even that to be completely changed though. He just can't keep putting it off bc this isn't SG and Nika openly addresses it in the first or second chapter of SG. Meaning, of the two stories, he's done the least to protect the one that got nuked from getting nuked again.

And, ya, I'm forced to question whether Ocean has the writing ability to make this work. He was ambiguous enough without being too ambiguous in SG (for sane people), but none of that was ever present here. I think too many people are stuck in their head canon of what was originally expected in the original to look at the new one objectively. For example, all this talk about the importance of the Zane bloodline. I've yet to see a single example in either game of how it is important to the story. Instead, it's always some etherical storyline that is intended and yet has never come to fruition. Meaning Ocean could easily be talking out of his ass with people gobbling it up. And if I were him, I'd certainly be directing people away from where I plan to go w/ the story. Personally, idc about spoilers, but a LOT of people do. And if he's giving away his own story for free with as little nudity as there is in his games, he has no product left to sell.

 

[LHDLLB]

Yes and no. I'd certainly agree that Helen seems to hold a motherly role to these characters, but that's not uncommon among groups of friends and their parents. One parent does tend to end up spending far more time with the kids than the rest and comes to fill that role for the whole group. Katie and Leia? I don't think Leia has been defined well enough to conclude anything beyond her personality. There is certainly an emotional carryover from the original between William and Leia and William and Katie. There is still plenty of room for even that to be completely changed though. He just can't keep putting it off bc this isn't SG and Nika openly addresses it in the first or second chapter of SG. Meaning, of the two stories, he's done the least to protect the one that got nuked from getting nuked again.

And, ya, I'm forced to question whether Ocean has the writing ability to make this work. He was ambiguous enough without being too ambiguous in SG (for sane people), but none of that was ever present here. I think too many people are stuck in their head canon of what was originally expected in the original to look at the new one objectively. For example, all this talk about the importance of the Zane bloodline. I've yet to see a single example in either game of how it is important to the story. Instead, it's always some etherical storyline that is intended and yet has never come to fruition. Meaning Ocean could easily be talking out of his ass with people gobbling it up. And if I were him, I'd certainly be directing people away from where I plan to go w/ the story. Personally, idc about spoilers, but a LOT of people do. And if he's giving away his own story for free with as little nudity as there is in his games, he has no product left to sell.

I swear to God this will be the last time I talk about it. So your interpretation is that Helen is the mother figure of a group of friends ? Like Helen is the mother of Katie who was friend with Leia and William and became a mother figure to the other two ? About SG, I really don't see how it is a standard to anything. SG does not make any sense if you take it at face value, none.

Again, I can't see how SG makes sense. But this is not the point. Of course people are stuck with their headcanon, this is the most normal reaction, and until now Ocean did little dissuade people of that. Just to be clear. You think that WiaB until now was not written as a IC game ? Regarding bloodlines, I think Ocean once called it Zaneverse, and is not a wild thing imagine that the first protagonist of the first game and his action will be importance to the entire universe. But I agree that it is not supported by the story in any way. I really hope that Ocean did not lied to his audience, is the worst thing a storyteller could do.

 

[RNasc4444]

I sure to God this will be the last time I talk about it. So your interpretation is that Helen is the mother figure of a group of friends ? Like Helen is the mother of Katie who was friend with Leia and William and became a mother figure to the other two ? About SG, I really don't see how it is a standard to anything. SG does not make any sense if you take it at face value, none.

Again, I can't see how SG makes sense. But this is not the point. Of course people are stuck with their headcanon, this is the most normal reaction, and until now Ocean did little dissuade people of that. Just to be clear. You think that WiaB until now was not written as a IC game ? Regarding bloodlines, I think Ocean once called it Zaneverse, and is not a wild thing imagine that the first protagonist of the first game and his action will be importance to the entire universe. But I agree that it is not supported by the story in any way. I really hope that Ocean did not lied to his audience, is the worst thing a storyteller could do.

Sometimes, in order to preserve one's sanity, it's better to just let it go.

To this day, I can't forget that there are actual human beings out there that think SG with no patch was the intended way Ocean wrote the game. Before the WiAB Patreon ban, before the "evil modder" suddenly "disappeared", before all the reworks and censoring and sanitizing of the story, there were individuals with the capability of critical thinking and logic that actually believed that the MC and Nami NOT being related made sense...

Realizing the true depth of human stupidity is unsettling. But it is what it is.

 

[yossa999]

Sometimes, in order to preserve one's sanity, it's better to just let it go.

To this day, I can't forget that there are actual human beings out there that think SG with no patch was the intended way Ocean wrote the game. Before the WiAB Patreon ban, before the "evil modder" suddenly "disappeared", before all the reworks and censoring and sanitizing of the story, there were individuals with the capability of critical thinking and logic that actually believed that the MC and Nami NOT being related made sense...

Realizing the true depth of human stupidity is unsettling. But it is what it is.

What about Noji? Is she their Asian landlady mom?

 

[sorco2003]

What about Noji? Is she their Asian landlady mom?

Yes! adopted... you know, as you claim that in WIAB that works equal...

 

[sorco2003]

Even so, SG is very easy to fix, just by showing the MC's parents and showing Nami's parents the first problem is dismantled. The second one, what was “implied” wink wink, we put it on the idea that the MC in his more than superior strategic head made everyone believe that it was his sister to “protect” her (you know what I mean).
Here comes the third problem, Noji.... can't be an adoptive mother, because that makes the protas a family,
legal guardian? in theory being a legal guardian of two or more people doesn't make any of them family... although maybe Patreon doesn't see it that way. And the latter works if and only if Noji is neither LI nor lewdable.
And now, get out of the thread... this is WIAB!

 

[yossa999]

Yes! adopted... you know, as you claim that in WIAB that works equal...

But I'm a dumb one, from the Ocean's target audience, so I'm obviously wrong.

A foster or adoptive mother can't be used to create unique family dynamics and shit, as we know from this thread.

 

[sorco2003]

But I'm a dumb one, from the Ocean's target audience, so I'm obviously wrong.

A foster or adoptive mother can't be used to create unique family dynamics and shit, as we know from this thread.

How it hurt... I love it.

 

[RNasc4444]

What about Noji? Is she their Asian landlady mom?

Disingenuous question yossa. Even if you choose to ignore the fact that Noji is of an entirely different race, there was never any sort of ambiguity there. The MC always stated he was adopted. The siblings only ever refer to Noji as "mom" in her presence. They call her "Noji" when she isn't around. Nothing ever pointed to the possibility of Nojiko ever being their mom.

While in the siblings case every single detail did point to it.

EDIT: You gotta come to terms with this. It isn't my "headcannon". It isn't an incest fetish. I've stated numerous times I would rather Nami was not related to the MC. It is simply the story Ocean chose to tell. The way he chose to tell it. Same with WiAB. Helen, Dylan, Katie, William and Leia were supposed to be related. They were supposed to be Zanes. Ocean told us this. I didn't make it up.

 

[RNasc4444]

A foster or adoptive mother can't be used to create unique family dynamics and shit, as we know from this thread.

Correct! But it can trigger the snowflakes at Patreon... And there lies the problem

 

[Allenebs]

I sure to God this will be the last time I talk about it. So your interpretation is that Helen is the mother figure of a group of friends ? Like Helen is the mother of Katie who was friend with Leia and William and became a mother figure to the other two ? About SG, I really don't see how it is a standard to anything. SG does not make any sense if you take it at face value, none.

Again, I can't see how SG makes sense. But this is not the point. Of course people are stuck with their headcanon, this is the most normal reaction, and until now Ocean did little dissuade people of that. Just to be clear. You think that WiaB until now was not written as a IC game ? Regarding bloodlines, I think Ocean once called it Zaneverse, and is not a wild thing imagine that the first protagonist of the first game and his action will be importance to the entire universe. But I agree that it is not supported by the story in any way. I really hope that Ocean did not lied to his audience, is the worst thing a storyteller could do.

There's no conflict if Helen, Leia and Katie are all related. Katie could simply be the jealous little sister who caught Leia with her hate fuck buddy who threatened to out them to the groups mother figure, who is also their mom. That's a toxic relationship, more than enough reason to prevent William and Leia from risking a pregnancy. It's not complex. This whole "Zane bloodline" theory is contrived and doesn't exist in either story at this time.

SG is REALLY simple to understand. It's a slice of life story with two children who grew up together, were orphaned at the same age, but share no biological relationship. Sitcoms with similar scenarios existed from the 70s to the 90s. People are confused why they look so different bc they THINK that Nika and Nami are related and it's addressed repeatedly. They don't even have to come from the same city. You literally have to go out of your way to inject incest into that story to see it at this point. Even if you proceed down Nami's path, which goes no where currently, they are still not related. Certainly not biologically.

Even if you want to argue that if they were adopted, they are legally related, that is never addressed. Personally, I find it ridiculous that if you had two identical households, one where the children adopted and the other fostered, one would be considered incest and the other not. And it doesn't matter bc YOU have to make the leap to it being something perverse for it to be something perverse. That only says anything about you. And, mind you, we're talking about a fantasy incestuous relationship which doesn't even exist in the story itself. And, unlike WiAB, SG has progressed further than it originally had before the changes. So you're making a massive fucking reach in the best of circumstances. At worst, you're on a forum arguing semantics to defend your fetish from non-ridicule, which is desperate and pathetic.

Now, why would Nojiko NOT want the two kids she's raising to suddenly have a kid of their own? The question answers itself. It's the same reason parents don't want their own kids having a kid with a non-sibling.

You're seeing 2+2= and 2+X=4 and coming up with 5 and 3 as answers. You're making leaps beyond the evidence you're being given. Sure, that's enough to satisfy some peoples fetishes w/o going too far, but it's a leap they have to make in their own minds. The rest of us can see it, roll our eyes, and continue with the story as it is being presented to us. The only conflict exists bc one party is determined 2+2=5 and everyone that says its 4 is wrong. Make your leap, it was left ambiguous to allow you to do just that, but stop demanding everyone else make that leap as well.

 

[RNasc4444]

There's no conflict if Helen, Leia and Katie are all related. Katie could simply be the jealous little sister who caught Leia with her hate fuck buddy who threatened to out them to the groups mother figure, who is also their mom. That's a toxic relationship, more than enough reason to prevent William and Leia from risking a pregnancy. It's not complex. This whole "Zane bloodline" theory is contrived and doesn't exist in either story at this time.

SG is REALLY simple to understand. It's a slice of life story with two children who grew up together, were orphaned at the same age, but share no biological relationship. Sitcoms with similar scenarios existed from the 70s to the 90s. People are confused why they look so different bc they THINK that Nika and Nami are related and it's addressed repeatedly. They don't even have to come from the same city. You literally have to go out of your way to inject incest into that story to see it at this point. Even if you proceed down Nami's path, which goes no where currently, they are still not related. Certainly not biologically.

Even if you want to argue that if they were adopted, they are legally related, that is never addressed. Personally, I find it ridiculous that if you had two identical households, one where the children adopted and the other fostered, one would be considered incest and the other not. And it doesn't matter bc YOU have to make the leap to it being something perverse for it to be something perverse. That only says anything about you. And, mind you, we're talking about a fantasy incestuous relationship which doesn't even exist in the story itself. And, unlike WiAB, SG has progressed further than it originally had before the changes. So you're making a massive fucking reach in the best of circumstances. At worst, you're on a forum arguing semantics to defend your fetish from non-ridicule, which is desperate and pathetic.

Now, why would Nojiko NOT want the two kids she's raising to suddenly have a kid of their own? The question answers itself. It's the same reason parents don't want their own kids having a kid with a non-sibling.

You're seeing 2+2= and 2+X=4 and coming up with 5 and 3 as answers. You're making leaps beyond the evidence you're being given. Sure, that's enough to satisfy some peoples fetishes w/o going too far, but it's a leap they have to make in their own minds. The rest of us can see it, roll our eyes, and continue with the story as it is being presented to us. The only conflict exists bc one party is determined 2+2=5 and everyone that says its 4 is wrong. Make your leap, it was left ambiguous to allow you to do just that, but stop demanding everyone else make that leap as well.

Can someone please DM this idiot the real identity of the "evil modder" that made the incest patch in SG so he can stop making a fool of himself on the Internet?

 

[sorco2003]

Can someone please DM this idiot the real identity of the "evil modder" that made the incest patch in SG so he can stop making a fool of himself on the Internet?

 

[yossa999]

Disingenuous question yossa.

Yeah, thanks, I'm quite disingenuous, I've been told so.

Even if you choose to ignore the fact that Noji is of an entirely different race, there was never any sort of ambiguity there. The MC always stated he was adopted. The siblings only ever refer to Noji as "mom" in her presence. They call her "Noji" when she isn't around. Nothing ever pointed to the possibility of Nojiko ever being their mom.

In the Chapter 2 version from SG thread, she was addressed as mother. But since only compressed versions remain for such an old release, it is possible that they were pre-patched.

A foster or adoptive mother can't be used to create unique family dynamics and shit, as we know from this thread.

Correct! But it can trigger the snowflakes at Patreon... And there lies the problem

So they don't see her as a mother figure? They don't respect her opinion, they don't try to help her the best they can, like they would for their own mother, you know, this unique dynamic... Oh, and they were nameless until 3y/o, since I've been told that Noji gave them these One Piece names?
I don’t understand these nitpicks to Ocean, souns like it’s a typical household, with a landlady and tenants.

How it hurt... I love it.

Yeah, no shit. Masterful fatality, I'm devastated.

So you're telling me the update is in June? I'm off until then.

 

[sorco2003]

Yeah, no shit. Masterful fatality, I'm devastated.

So you're telling me the update is in June? I'm off until then.

And more hurt... love it... even more now

 

[RNasc4444]

I don’t understand these nitpicks to Ocean, souns like it’s a typical household, with a landlady and tenants.

Typical? Not at all. Typically you would actually pay rent for the house you're living in. And normally you wouldn't live in the same house as your landlord. Unless of course you're not renting a house but a room. Still, rent would need to be paid. Who do you think was paying it? Because I doubt 3 year olds would have a job

 

[yossa999]

Typical? Not at all. Typically you would actually pay rent for the house you're living in. And normally you wouldn't live in the same house as your landlord. Unless of course you're not renting a house but a room. Still, rent would need to be paid. Who do you think was paying it? Because I doubt 3 year olds would have a job

It's simple. It's an unknown benefactor who will appear in the next season.

 

[NebulousShooter]

It's simple. It's an unknown benefactor who will appear in the next season.

It was Bella from the future

 

[RNasc4444]

It's simple. It's an unknown benefactor who will appear in the next season.

Agreed! Do you think this benefactor was the one who made Noji switch names halfway through the story?

I think it might be aliens? Because at some point they all had the Cyrus last name. Then something happened and suddenly only the MC had that last name. That's the connection to WiAB! I bet they were the ones who also changed the relationship between Willi&Leia and the rest of the Zane family! Maybe not aliens? Not time travellers. Reality benders? I don't know there are so many possibilities.

EDIT: HOLY SHIT! Wollust doesn't have shapeshifters! It's reality benders changing the size and shape of the girls bodies!!! It has to be!

 

[yossa999]

Agreed! Do you think this benefactor was the one who made Noji switch names halfway through the story?

I think it might be aliens? Because at some point they all had the Cyrus last name. Then something happened and suddenly only the MC had that last name. That's the connection to WiAB! I bet they were the ones who also changed the relationship between Willi&Leia and the rest of the Zane family! Maybe not aliens? Not time travellers. Reality benders? I don't know there are so many possibilities.

The alien theory is the second most popular, but time travel is still the favorite, as NebulousShooter noted in the post above.
Sasha is Summer, Marla is Sasha from the future who came back to stop Vic.

But none of this has anything to do with the changes you mentioned. They're just plot tweaks during the rework and nothing more. I thought you knew.