VN Ren'Py Where It All Began [Ch. 3 Full] [Oceanlab]

[RNasc4444]

It's simple. It's an unknown benefactor who will appear in the next season.

Agreed! Do you think this benefactor was the one who made Noji switch names halfway through the story?

I think it might be aliens? Because at some point they all had the Cyrus last name. Then something happened and suddenly only the MC had that last name. That's the connection to WiAB! I bet they were the ones who also changed the relationship between Willi&Leia and the rest of the Zane family! Maybe not aliens? Not time travellers. Reality benders? I don't know there are so many possibilities.

EDIT: HOLY SHIT! Wollust doesn't have shapeshifters! It's reality benders changing the size and shape of the girls bodies!!! It has to be!

 

[yossa999]

Agreed! Do you think this benefactor was the one who made Noji switch names halfway through the story?

I think it might be aliens? Because at some point they all had the Cyrus last name. Then something happened and suddenly only the MC had that last name. That's the connection to WiAB! I bet they were the ones who also changed the relationship between Willi&Leia and the rest of the Zane family! Maybe not aliens? Not time travellers. Reality benders? I don't know there are so many possibilities.

The alien theory is the second most popular, but time travel is still the favorite, as NebulousShooter noted in the post above.
Sasha is Summer, Marla is Sasha from the future who came back to stop Vic.

But none of this has anything to do with the changes you mentioned. They're just plot tweaks during the rework and nothing more. I thought you knew.

 

[BobTheDuck]

I sure to God this will be the last time I talk about it. So your interpretation is that Helen is the mother figure of a group of friends ? Like Helen is the mother of Katie who was friend with Leia and William and became a mother figure to the other two ? About SG, I really don't see how it is a standard to anything. SG does not make any sense if you take it at face value, none.

Again, I can't see how SG makes sense. But this is not the point. Of course people are stuck with their headcanon, this is the most normal reaction, and until now Ocean did little dissuade people of that. Just to be clear. You think that WiaB until now was not written as a IC game ? Regarding bloodlines, I think Ocean once called it Zaneverse, and is not a wild thing imagine that the first protagonist of the first game and his action will be importance to the entire universe. But I agree that it is not supported by the story in any way. I really hope that Ocean did not lied to his audience, is the worst thing a storyteller could do.

It is overtly supported in the games. The Zane family is the only recognisable part of WiaB to be present in SG from the first chapter, other than Wollust being Wollust. We have the earrings and we have Ayua, and we have ZPR. Even before Ch5 we have Katie's car, Katie's name, Ayua's family fighting style, etc. The Reveras only get mentioned in Ch 4.5 by Mila, and although the Petrovas are there the whole time, we haven't seen any confirmed Revera or Petrova in WiaB.

So yes, 100% there is a focus on the Zane family. We even have teasers of Gefritzel in SG.

This doesn't mean the family dynamics of the Zanes are central to SG though. We don't know that at all. What is central to SG is NIka developing mental health (or not), and what is central to WiaB is Willi repairing his fuckups (or not). I can imagine that the effort Willi will have to make to repair things with Mon *should* be a greater effort than patching things up with Leia, other than we've already seen that Mon is a normal human and Leia is a vengeful harpy who revels in her perceived pain.

About lying, all authors of stories are liars, that's why they work in fiction. There's no such thing as written truth when it comes to stories. It's the consistent lies that stand the test of time. Ocean's at least more plausible than what I read in the news some days

Disingenuous question yossa. Even if you choose to ignore the fact that Noji is of an entirely different race, there was never any sort of ambiguity there. The MC always stated he was adopted. The siblings only ever refer to Noji as "mom" in her presence. They call her "Noji" when she isn't around. Nothing ever pointed to the possibility of Nojiko ever being their mom.

While in the siblings case every single detail did point to it.

EDIT: You gotta come to terms with this. It isn't my "headcannon". It isn't an incest fetish. I've stated numerous times I would rather Nami was not related to the MC. It is simply the story Ocean chose to tell. The way he chose to tell it. Same with WiAB. Helen, Dylan, Katie, William and Leia were supposed to be related. They were supposed to be Zanes. Ocean told us this. I didn't make it up.

The important thing is it WAS the story Ocean chose to tell, but WiaB got nuked, and he's had to rethink it. There is no guarantee he'll do X, Y or Z to provide development stability. We'll see how it goes. The least plausible outcome is trying to keep it a mystery for the whole game. Everyone on screen knows the dynamic, but we don't? That'd be the chicken burger choice for every interaction.

And you're right, it wasn't a fan obsession headcanon like in some other threads of this site, it was in the unpatched version from memory. Even before patching, we had Noji Cyrus. But the story has changed, which means we get future chapters, and hopefully Ocean will get better at telling lovely lies ...I mean storytelling

There's no conflict if Helen, Leia and Katie are all related. Katie could simply be the jealous little sister who caught Leia with her hate fuck buddy who threatened to out them to the groups mother figure, who is also their mom. That's a toxic relationship, more than enough reason to prevent William and Leia from risking a pregnancy. It's not complex. This whole "Zane bloodline" theory is contrived and doesn't exist in either story at this time.

SG is REALLY simple to understand. It's a slice of life story with two children who grew up together, were orphaned at the same age, but share no biological relationship. Sitcoms with similar scenarios existed from the 70s to the 90s. People are confused why they look so different bc they THINK that Nika and Nami are related and it's addressed repeatedly. They don't even have to come from the same city. You literally have to go out of your way to inject incest into that story to see it at this point. Even if you proceed down Nami's path, which goes no where currently, they are still not related. Certainly not biologically.

Even if you want to argue that if they were adopted, they are legally related, that is never addressed. Personally, I find it ridiculous that if you had two identical households, one where the children adopted and the other fostered, one would be considered incest and the other not. And it doesn't matter bc YOU have to make the leap to it being something perverse for it to be something perverse. That only says anything about you. And, mind you, we're talking about a fantasy incestuous relationship which doesn't even exist in the story itself. And, unlike WiAB, SG has progressed further than it originally had before the changes. So you're making a massive fucking reach in the best of circumstances. At worst, you're on a forum arguing semantics to defend your fetish from non-ridicule, which is desperate and pathetic.

Now, why would Nojiko NOT want the two kids she's raising to suddenly have a kid of their own? The question answers itself. It's the same reason parents don't want their own kids having a kid with a non-sibling.

You're seeing 2+2= and 2+X=4 and coming up with 5 and 3 as answers. You're making leaps beyond the evidence you're being given. Sure, that's enough to satisfy some peoples fetishes w/o going too far, but it's a leap they have to make in their own minds. The rest of us can see it, roll our eyes, and continue with the story as it is being presented to us. The only conflict exists bc one party is determined 2+2=5 and everyone that says its 4 is wrong. Make your leap, it was left ambiguous to allow you to do just that, but stop demanding everyone else make that leap as well.

The Zane "bloodline" theory hasn't existed in any game - bloodline means descendants, and only Donna got potentially pregnant, and that is old and no longer part of the game even if it might be. But the Zane family is the only point of continuity CURRENTLY in both games. That is a thing. As far as your idea of the unoofical foster family/friendzone, that's not what Ocean said in his redacted devlog. Because it's here but not on SS, it's hard to say if the leak was doctored by the leaker (nudge nudge wink wink). Regardless, the future relationships will be defined, and Ocean has specific roles. I gave up trying to work out which roles they will be as a good story teller can make at least 27 plausible origins from what we have now. The problem we suffer is we don't know the majority of the story, and we only look to what fits what we've seen. Ocean is able to manipulate the future of the stories to fit his adjustments, so he'll add details that we can't currently notice, or that we think are silly.

You've come to SG since the rework then, I'll not try to persuade you otherwise, as we're now in a post SG rework world. Only post rework truths apply. Most people arguing otherwise have played each release of the games before the reworks, and it's hard to unsee or unlearn details, when the new details are like the old details but only slightly different.

Now, why would Nojiko NOT want the two kids she's raising to suddenly have a kid of their own? The question answers itself. It's the same reason parents don't want their own kids having a kid with a non-sibling.

This isn't the way to think about it. Rather why do Nika and Nami feel terrified about a race against impossible odds? Whatever Ocean intends there is something they feel is inherently a problem that will be used to bring them down. Because this is a Wiab thread though, I'll stop there. Ocean might have a similar mechanism in WiaB for Katie and William, and if he does, it essentially becomes the same story with different skins. So I'll hope for more ingenuity and variation.

Also chill on the personal attacks. You don't want to cross the line into personal attacks and kink shaming. I'd dare say 100% of the incest stories on this site are unrealistic and fetishised to the point of ridiculousness - it's no wonder that games like WiaB that appeared to deal with the shame aspect of it in a slightly more realistic way would get attention.

At the end of this discussion, we're still left without a ch4 that will provide a hint of whether Leia and Willi are still Zanes. If they're name stays, we can assume at least a basic level of the names of the characters. That's a good outcome for now.

Yeah, thanks, I'm quite disingenuous, I've been told so.


In the Chapter 2 version from SG thread, she was addressed as mother. But since only compressed versions remain for such an old release, it is possible that they were pre-patched.


So they don't see her as a mother figure? They don't respect her opinion, they don't try to help her the best they can, like they would for their own mother, you know, this unique dynamic... Oh, and they were nameless until 3y/o, since I've been told that Noji gave them these One Piece names?
I don’t understand these nitpicks to Ocean, souns like it’s a typical household, with a landlady and tenants.


Yeah, no shit. Masterful fatality, I'm devastated.

So you're telling me the update is in June? I'm off until then.

She was Noji Cyrus. That's why she is now Noji Miyazaki. See you here in June, or later today ...whichever comes first

It was Bella from the future

This is the way. Bella, responsible for all the shit in Wollust from when it all begain.

Agreed! Do you think this benefactor was the one who made Noji switch names halfway through the story?

I think it might be aliens? Because at some point they all had the Cyrus last name. Then something happened and suddenly only the MC had that last name. That's the connection to WiAB! I bet they were the ones who also changed the relationship between Willi&Leia and the rest of the Zane family! Maybe not aliens? Not time travellers. Reality benders? I don't know there are so many possibilities.

EDIT: HOLY SHIT! Wollust doesn't have shapeshifters! It's reality benders changing the size and shape of the girls bodies!!! It has to be!

I told you about the lake, there is the elder god thing that makes all plot holes plausible. IT is the benefactor, and IT's thoughts and desires are beyond comprehension. We say a lake, but it's story bending abilities are as vast ...as an Ocean

sorry not sorry!

 

[John972]

Inference isn't admission. You're also acting like it's abnormal for Nika to give people a non-answer. That's literally his thing, and as you point out yourself, Ocean's as well. Neither will give you a direct answer because... they don't have to. You're also ignoring the times he expressly states that they are NOT related, that they were both orphaned at the same age. Proving, again, that Nika only tells people what he wants them to know, when HE wants them to know it.

As to suing the payment processors? You can always sue. There's always a chance you can win, even if you're making shit up as you go. Not saying he wins, don't think he would, not even sure where this is coming from... if there was anything I was trying to point at, it was that the platforms ToS's mean jack and shit. And I don't think I was making that argument here. Simply, the platforms ToS protect the PLATFORM, but not those that wouldn't even qualify as contractors.

Spin this anyway you want. These AVNs are stories, so ANY dialogue they contain is in there for a reason. The redhead questions are legacy dialogues from when Nami and Nika were siblings, nod, nod, wink, wink. Ocean left them in there after the rework. Could there be an innocent explanation why they're still there? Possibly. But that would require retconning the whole need for them being in the AVN in the first place.

Suing a payment processor. Anyone can sue? Civil litigation costs a lot of money and big Corporations will invariably win a legal war of attrition in a case like this. A paralegal (at $250/hr) could go through the WIAB/SG threads on F95 and find enough evidence to counter a lawsuit. So, my answer to you is this: To sue, Ocean would either have to be very wealthy or somehow conclude that the potential loss of game income far outweighs the cost of litigation.

 

[John972]

Damn right Yossa my man. He should ditch that stupid teen angst crap he obsesses over and get back to this full time! Katie needs her time.

Damn straight! He should ditch that stupid teen angst crap and concentrate solely on the adult angst crap /s

 

[GetOutOfMyLab]

Damn straight! He should ditch that stupid teen angst crap and concentrate solely on the adult angst crap /s

Fair enough. He should ditch that stupid limp-dick MC crap and concentrate solely on the MC who is capable and willing to use his dick

 

[LHDLLB]

It is overtly supported in the games. The Zane family is the only recognisable part of WiaB to be present in SG from the first chapter, other than Wollust being Wollust. We have the earrings and we have Ayua, and we have ZPR. Even before Ch5 we have Katie's car, Katie's name, Ayua's family fighting style, etc. The Reveras only get mentioned in Ch 4.5 by Mila, and although the Petrovas are there the whole time, we haven't seen any confirmed Revera or Petrova in WiaB.

So yes, 100% there is a focus on the Zane family. We even have teasers of Gefritzel in SG.

This doesn't mean the family dynamics of the Zanes are central to SG though. We don't know that at all. What is central to SG is NIka developing mental health (or not), and what is central to WiaB is Willi repairing his fuckups (or not). I can imagine that the effort Willi will have to make to repair things with Mon *should* be a greater effort than patching things up with Leia, other than we've already seen that Mon is a normal human and Leia is a vengeful harpy who revels in her perceived pain.

About lying, all authors of stories are liars, that's why they work in fiction. There's no such thing as written truth when it comes to stories. It's the consistent lies that stand the test of time. Ocean's at least more plausible than what I read in the news some days



The important thing is it WAS the story Ocean chose to tell, but WiaB got nuked, and he's had to rethink it. There is no guarantee he'll do X, Y or Z to provide development stability. We'll see how it goes. The least plausible outcome is trying to keep it a mystery for the whole game. Everyone on screen knows the dynamic, but we don't? That'd be the chicken burger choice for every interaction.

And you're right, it wasn't a fan obsession headcanon like in some other threads of this site, it was in the unpatched version from memory. Even before patching, we had Noji Cyrus. But the story has changed, which means we get future chapters, and hopefully Ocean will get better at telling lovely lies ...I mean storytelling



The Zane "bloodline" theory hasn't existed in any game - bloodline means descendants, and only Donna got potentially pregnant, and that is old and no longer part of the game even if it might be. But the Zane family is the only point of continuity CURRENTLY in both games. That is a thing. As far as your idea of the unoofical foster family/friendzone, that's not what Ocean said in his redacted devlog. Because it's here but not on SS, it's hard to say if the leak was doctored by the leaker (nudge nudge wink wink). Regardless, the future relationships will be defined, and Ocean has specific roles. I gave up trying to work out which roles they will be as a good story teller can make at least 27 plausible origins from what we have now. The problem we suffer is we don't know the majority of the story, and we only look to what fits what we've seen. Ocean is able to manipulate the future of the stories to fit his adjustments, so he'll add details that we can't currently notice, or that we think are silly.

You've come to SG since the rework then, I'll not try to persuade you otherwise, as we're now in a post SG rework world. Only post rework truths apply. Most people arguing otherwise have played each release of the games before the reworks, and it's hard to unsee or unlearn details, when the new details are like the old details but only slightly different.



This isn't the way to think about it. Rather why do Nika and Nami feel terrified about a race against impossible odds? Whatever Ocean intends there is something they feel is inherently a problem that will be used to bring them down. Because this is a Wiab thread though, I'll stop there. Ocean might have a similar mechanism in WiaB for Katie and William, and if he does, it essentially becomes the same story with different skins. So I'll hope for more ingenuity and variation.

Also chill on the personal attacks. You don't want to cross the line into personal attacks and kink shaming. I'd dare say 100% of the incest stories on this site are unrealistic and fetishised to the point of ridiculousness - it's no wonder that games like WiaB that appeared to deal with the shame aspect of it in a slightly more realistic way would get attention.

At the end of this discussion, we're still left without a ch4 that will provide a hint of whether Leia and Willi are still Zanes. If they're name stays, we can assume at least a basic level of the names of the characters. That's a good outcome for now.



She was Noji Cyrus. That's why she is now Noji Miyazaki. See you here in June, or later today ...whichever comes first



This is the way. Bella, responsible for all the shit in Wollust from when it all begain.



I told you about the lake, there is the elder god thing that makes all plot holes plausible. IT is the benefactor, and IT's thoughts and desires are beyond comprehension. We say a lake, but it's story bending abilities are as vast ...as an Ocean

sorry not sorry!

About the Zanes, I agree. My point was that is more the expectation that the Zanes will be this force than they really being it so far. I fully agree with you, but people also goes overboard where everything and everyone is a Zane and they are at the center of the universe ( they might) but I don't really want this or thik the story supports it.

Regarding Authors lying. One thing is an author tricking you by the story another is they lying in the Discord about their story, to get people off guard, I love the first and loath the second, with is what I understood the person I was replieing to was talking about. But given how much Ocean changes his lies he should be a worse storyteller, not even the boob sizes are constant and the story is not that far behind. Now I just sound bitter. I love the guy's work but it is not perfect.

If I had not to sleep I would respond the jest against Leia. I really like your insights Bob, they are great, but you are blind by hate. Katie is the real villain Leia is a saint. Jokes aside I prefer grey characters and I think that Leia migth be one of Ocean best, and the guy has a real talent for character writting, something that writers in general are not very good.

 

[LHDLLB]

There's no conflict if Helen, Leia and Katie are all related. Katie could simply be the jealous little sister who caught Leia with her hate fuck buddy who threatened to out them to the groups mother figure, who is also their mom. That's a toxic relationship, more than enough reason to prevent William and Leia from risking a pregnancy. It's not complex. This whole "Zane bloodline" theory is contrived and doesn't exist in either story at this time.

SG is REALLY simple to understand. It's a slice of life story with two children who grew up together, were orphaned at the same age, but share no biological relationship. Sitcoms with similar scenarios existed from the 70s to the 90s. People are confused why they look so different bc they THINK that Nika and Nami are related and it's addressed repeatedly. They don't even have to come from the same city. You literally have to go out of your way to inject incest into that story to see it at this point. Even if you proceed down Nami's path, which goes no where currently, they are still not related. Certainly not biologically.

Even if you want to argue that if they were adopted, they are legally related, that is never addressed. Personally, I find it ridiculous that if you had two identical households, one where the children adopted and the other fostered, one would be considered incest and the other not. And it doesn't matter bc YOU have to make the leap to it being something perverse for it to be something perverse. That only says anything about you. And, mind you, we're talking about a fantasy incestuous relationship which doesn't even exist in the story itself. And, unlike WiAB, SG has progressed further than it originally had before the changes. So you're making a massive fucking reach in the best of circumstances. At worst, you're on a forum arguing semantics to defend your fetish from non-ridicule, which is desperate and pathetic.

Now, why would Nojiko NOT want the two kids she's raising to suddenly have a kid of their own? The question answers itself. It's the same reason parents don't want their own kids having a kid with a non-sibling.

You're seeing 2+2= and 2+X=4 and coming up with 5 and 3 as answers. You're making leaps beyond the evidence you're being given. Sure, that's enough to satisfy some peoples fetishes w/o going too far, but it's a leap they have to make in their own minds. The rest of us can see it, roll our eyes, and continue with the story as it is being presented to us. The only conflict exists bc one party is determined 2+2=5 and everyone that says its 4 is wrong. Make your leap, it was left ambiguous to allow you to do just that, but stop demanding everyone else make that leap as well.

Not sure what I did to get you so worked up but that's alright. I really meant what I say and will no longer discus IC in Ocean games, is pointless. Maybe this was his plan all along ? The man is playing 4D chess, I tell you ! Either way hope you havea good day.

 

[BobTheDuck]

About the Zanes, I agree. My point was that is more the expectation that the Zanes will be this force than they really being it so far. I fully agree with you, but people also goes overboard where everything and everyone is a Zane and they are at the center of the universe ( they might) but I don't really want this or thik the story supports it.

Regarding Authors lying. One thing is an author tricking you by the story another is they lying in the Discord about their story, to get people off guard, I love the first and loath the second, with is what I understood the person I was replieing to was talking about. But given how much Ocean changes his lies he should be a worse storyteller, not even the boob sizes are constant and the story is not that far behind. Now I just sound bitter. I love the guy's work but it is not perfect.

If I had not to sleep I would respond the jest against Leia. I really like your insights Bob, they are great, but you are blind by hate. Katie is the real villain Leia is a saint. Jokes aside I prefer grey characters and I think that Leia migth be one of Ocean best, and the guy has a real talent for character writting, something that writers in general are not very good.

I guess if he changes the macro name for the series to the Williverse we'll know if Willi will be the pillar upholding the whole kit and caboodle I personally like the idea of the 'family' being part of each story, kinda like Dan Mitchell's Ghostwritten book - each new chapter had a single character or event from the last but was separate, and there was a daisy chain of events and separate stories. Probably easier to do in an AVN than a regular novel. In this sense, I don't need Willi or Leia to have a significant part in SG, because they're part of the backdrop (maybe, maybe not). At least so far, SG and WiaB have enough separation, the fan theories are th only things finding connection where there might be none. I've been making a big effort lately in my own mentality to focus on what I am told by the stories I play, rather than what I assume or what is suggested - it's the only real way to deal with the fact I've played the games before they were reworked.

Oh yeah, about lying - I only think of things through the filter of the story. The whole chain of whispers about what the dev said when things have been nuked from orbit in this thread, in discord etc ...I just decide not to care about the politics of the game. It is up to Ocean to keep his subs happy, not me. I can't keep them happy for him, and it's his job. There's also so little chance for a dev to just issue a throwaway comment on discord or a forum etc and it just be off the cuff. Everyone can screengrab now, so everything is Official™ and Serious™ to the point the dev can't say anything for risk of someone showing him the screengrab.

About Leia vs Mon, Leia literally has a childish grudge against Willi, and mentally she fed it to become full blown depression. Willi isn't responsible for Leia's dependency, he's only responsible for leaving. After he left, Leia spent the time reliving how she would punish him at some point. There is no way she is not being vengeful over a childish grudge. Compare that to Mon - Willi took her virginity and left her as a literal cum dump. She shows amazing restraint, and less violence towards him than Leia. Leia has the potential to be a great character for the plot, but she's excessive, manipulative, and generally unpleasant. There's maybe two scenes where she doesn't have her thorns out, or at least retracts her claws for a polite conversation, but thy always come back out.

What William did to Mon is far far worse than what he did to Leia, based on what we know right now. The fact that William doesn't know what happened to Mon after he did that suggests it wasn't long after he creampied Mon that he left Wollust. Maybe there was time for something even more serious between him and Leia, but that sort of stuff could get the game banned pretty much anywhere if it was shown, so it's incredibly unlikely.

There's still more story to be revealled, but people demonise Willi for running away and breaking the family etc. There's only so far that punishment/vilification can go. Katie forgets sometimes that she's holding a grudge, Leia doesn't. This doesn't mean I think Katie is an angel, but she is willing to engage with William and talk openly. Leia's looking to score points and get the upper hand rather than be honest. I think that will play into the way the story develops. But nowhere in the game does it say I have to like her

 

[sorco2003]

The Bob I like to read is back!

 

[sorco2003]

Let's dust off the other important topics: this is log week!
*workstation: while we know he won't receive it until next week, we may have the final specs.
*numbers?: maybe?
*Katie emergency render: yeah
*cinematics: maybe it's time to know more or less if there will be cinematic or just animations.

 

[BobTheDuck]

Let's dust off the other important topics: this is log week!
*workstation: while we know he won't receive it until next week, we may have the final specs.
*numbers?: maybe?
*Katie emergency render: yeah
*cinematics: maybe it's time to know more or less if there will be cinematic or just animations.

*Log weeks are getting progressively better, I'm hoping that trend will continue. The last couple have implied Ocean's focusing on getting things done inseemingly more tangible ways.
*He's totally going to justify the workstation, even if it's just preaching to himself. Having a kick ass computer for work is great fun, but it's really hard to explain why you like your work computer so much to anyone. So I expect there will be mention of how he's prepping for the transfer, and how he's giddy as can be. Rightfully so, he's spending all that money to tell stories. It should always be seen as that. Whether it's necessary or not is irrelevant to the fact he's getting it to keep telling his stories, and he's locked himself into a longterm lease that requires him to keep moving forward on the stories.
*The number I want most is a release week. But I'll be happy to see the number of remaining renders growing smaller rather than Ocean adding further scenes (but if he adds further scenes, there's probably more Katie anyway, so that's a win).
*Yes
*I expect there will be at least one new cinmatic for a release trailer. He should get on to that so he can get people excited once he's close. Something about SG's trailer, is there are things shown that aren't in the game yet (such as the part with Sonya). This has the effect of leaving the audience wanting more than what's in the release. Ocean will hopefully do that, drop some good old fashioned easter eggs in the trailer for us to lose our collective heads over.
*I also wonder if Season 1 will end up being the end of Ch4, as Ocean mentioned both games' updates are basically double the normal size. Will it be labelled as two chapters? Will it still be in early access after 4 is released?
*I wonder about the situation with the release. Will Ocean do the same as with SG, release on steam, then SS? I can't see it working in his favour if he releases it on SS first or even simultaneously, someone will leak it and Ocean should want WiaB to make at least a decent splash. He'd probably feel more inspired to push the dev faster if there's overt incentive, rather than mixed in the general pool of (mainly) SG subs.

 

[TheDuke9999]

 

[sorco2003]

*Log weeks are getting progressively better, I'm hoping that trend will continue. The last couple have implied Ocean's focusing on getting things done inseemingly more tangible ways.
*He's totally going to justify the workstation, even if it's just preaching to himself. Having a kick ass computer for work is great fun, but it's really hard to explain why you like your work computer so much to anyone. So I expect there will be mention of how he's prepping for the transfer, and how he's giddy as can be. Rightfully so, he's spending all that money to tell stories. It should always be seen as that. Whether it's necessary or not is irrelevant to the fact he's getting it to keep telling his stories, and he's locked himself into a longterm lease that requires him to keep moving forward on the stories.
*The number I want most is a release week. But I'll be happy to see the number of remaining renders growing smaller rather than Ocean adding further scenes (but if he adds further scenes, there's probably more Katie anyway, so that's a win).
*Yes
*I expect there will be at least one new cinmatic for a release trailer. He should get on to that so he can get people excited once he's close. Something about SG's trailer, is there are things shown that aren't in the game yet (such as the part with Sonya). This has the effect of leaving the audience wanting more than what's in the release. Ocean will hopefully do that, drop some good old fashioned easter eggs in the trailer for us to lose our collective heads over.
*I also wonder if Season 1 will end up being the end of Ch4, as Ocean mentioned both games' updates are basically double the normal size. Will it be labelled as two chapters? Will it still be in early access after 4 is released?
*I wonder about the situation with the release. Will Ocean do the same as with SG, release on steam, then SS? I can't see it working in his favour if he releases it on SS first or even simultaneously, someone will leak it and Ocean should want WiaB to make at least a decent splash. He'd probably feel more inspired to push the dev faster if there's overt incentive, rather than mixed in the general pool of (mainly) SG subs.

I hadn't thought of a mini cinematic for Steam/GoG, and you're right about that. We need one with a big punch, those dupes are not going to come alone, we have to show the animated Katie to make them fall for it.

As for season 1 of WIAB, he had already said it was going to be 8 episodes, and I think it says so on Steam. (yes, it still says that on Steam)

As for the simultaneous release or not, I think it depends a lot on how big the wishlist is on Steam. I also know that the wishlist grows if it has an estimated release date, so maybe there will be some news about it.
And I have also noticed that the SS numbers are up (well, no, I was told they were going up) and if I interpreted what I was told correctly, they are WIAB numbers, and perhaps to underpin that growth, it is a simultaneous release.

 

[BobTheDuck]

I hadn't thought of a mini cinematic for Steam/GoG, and you're right about that. We need one with a big punch, those dupes are not going to come alone, we have to show the animated Katie to make them fall for it.

As for season 1 of WIAB, he had already said it was going to be 8 episodes, and I think it says so on Steam. (yes, it still says that on Steam)
View attachment 4482955
As for the simultaneous release or not, I think it depends a lot on how big the wishlist is on Steam. I also know that the wishlist grows if it has an estimated release date, so maybe there will be some news about it.
And I have also noticed that the SS numbers are up (well, no, I was told they were going up) and if I interpreted what I was told correctly, they are WIAB numbers, and perhaps to underpin that growth, it is a simultaneous release.

We often talk about consistency with the story and the character models, but the most important consistency for Ocean is communication and making the game exciting/bringing anticipation. While he's excited about the workflow he hopes for the workstation, people get genuinely excitedbecause they see he's passionate about the game despite the loss of patreon etc. At least, that's how I'd read the increase in numbers. Or, the leak of Leia's setshows that people just want them some content.

Either way, if the subs numbers are up, that'll help him feel like he's moving forward. Impetus is a great thing.

 

[Dr.TSoni]

*Katie emergency render: yeah

It was Bella from the future

False! It is Bella's sister from the future who replaces her

 

[dameromexxx]

Damn I can hear the potential coming from this thread of the howling of sirens the sound of water flowing from hoses the bangs of stun grenades and the smell of pepper spray if ''Nika the Emo'' working dick is significantly bigger than ''Will the Chad''. Ocean needs to really think about this decision it looks like the range of unforgivable sins

 

[LHDLLB]

I guess if he changes the macro name for the series to the Williverse we'll know if Willi will be the pillar upholding the whole kit and caboodle I personally like the idea of the 'family' being part of each story, kinda like Dan Mitchell's Ghostwritten book - each new chapter had a single character or event from the last but was separate, and there was a daisy chain of events and separate stories. Probably easier to do in an AVN than a regular novel. In this sense, I don't need Willi or Leia to have a significant part in SG, because they're part of the backdrop (maybe, maybe not). At least so far, SG and WiaB have enough separation, the fan theories are th only things finding connection where there might be none. I've been making a big effort lately in my own mentality to focus on what I am told by the stories I play, rather than what I assume or what is suggested - it's the only real way to deal with the fact I've played the games before they were reworked.

Oh yeah, about lying - I only think of things through the filter of the story. The whole chain of whispers about what the dev said when things have been nuked from orbit in this thread, in discord etc ...I just decide not to care about the politics of the game. It is up to Ocean to keep his subs happy, not me. I can't keep them happy for him, and it's his job. There's also so little chance for a dev to just issue a throwaway comment on discord or a forum etc and it just be off the cuff. Everyone can screengrab now, so everything is Official™ and Serious™ to the point the dev can't say anything for risk of someone showing him the screengrab.

About Leia vs Mon, Leia literally has a childish grudge against Willi, and mentally she fed it to become full blown depression. Willi isn't responsible for Leia's dependency, he's only responsible for leaving. After he left, Leia spent the time reliving how she would punish him at some point. There is no way she is not being vengeful over a childish grudge. Compare that to Mon - Willi took her virginity and left her as a literal cum dump. She shows amazing restraint, and less violence towards him than Leia. Leia has the potential to be a great character for the plot, but she's excessive, manipulative, and generally unpleasant. There's maybe two scenes where she doesn't have her thorns out, or at least retracts her claws for a polite conversation, but thy always come back out.

What William did to Mon is far far worse than what he did to Leia, based on what we know right now. The fact that William doesn't know what happened to Mon after he did that suggests it wasn't long after he creampied Mon that he left Wollust. Maybe there was time for something even more serious between him and Leia, but that sort of stuff could get the game banned pretty much anywhere if it was shown, so it's incredibly unlikely.

There's still more story to be revealled, but people demonise Willi for running away and breaking the family etc. There's only so far that punishment/vilification can go. Katie forgets sometimes that she's holding a grudge, Leia doesn't. This doesn't mean I think Katie is an angel, but she is willing to engage with William and talk openly. Leia's looking to score points and get the upper hand rather than be honest. I think that will play into the way the story develops. But nowhere in the game does it say I have to like her

To be honest I never gave much thought on HOW the story will connect, I sure they will and William and the Zanes are gonna be part of SG and the other games - if they ever come- but there is 100 ways of doing it and is the type of thing I am happy to wait play out than try to guess. Maybe William will be a Stan Lee like character and show up, look at the camera, wink twice and you will know that this story only exists because he fucked someone 50 years ago. I like your idea, but I also like the idea of the story being one big story, and I also like the idea of them being their own thing existing on the same world. There is not a right way to do it.

Oh I agree, I was not suggesting he does that. I just don't like this idea. Authors can trick me any time with their story, but when they are given Word of God they should not lie or trick the audience to think one thing or the other. I also agree about being easy to be confronted with a lie, but people still do, not always in a malicious manner. I really don't think Ocean does this, just as a argument " the author lying to us" is one that I am not found off.

LEIA. Sorry, did not wanted to give the impression that you SHOULD like Leia, was just joking. That there is characters that we can like and hate is a praise for Ocean skill. I mostly agree with you about Leia being childish and vindictive that she is obsessed with William, narcissistic tendencies - to be charitable. Leia is all that. But we are 3 chapters in, we don't really know what William did and what they were back then. I am holding judgment on Leia, and we already had a more moral debate on the matter. Regarding the drugs and prostitution. Can a imoral person be a good person ? Maybe. I just think that Leia has much more to her than hurt twin roommate, or at least I hope so.

MON. I have a different view on her than you do. Mon did not moving on. Mon is in denial. She can't even recognize William presence, much less the she is slept with him, " I have nothing to compare". I don't think that a lack of violence response is necessary is a good signal here, granted Monica seems a more balanced person than Leia and I get your overall point. Leia is a bitch.

Taking about being a bitch. KATIE. Just kidding. I do like Katie. But I do find her dynamics far too tiresome and quite frankly far more childish than Leia's. Katie is one character that changed much with the rework. For what I remember from the OG she was a full bitch and then we heard her sad story. Never really cared much for her there. New Katie is like hot and cold, she teases but does not like to be teased back, is really pleasant at moments and deeply annoying at others. In the rework she is more of a balanced character, she does not take all the blame for William leaving as she did in the OG, but she is not guilt free. That said, I am more suspicious of her than I am of Leia, Leia shows herself you know that you can expect anything from her, I can at least respect that. Katie seems... I don't have the English word. I just find more hard to trust her than I do Leia, I know what expect of Leia, I don't of Katie. She comes across to me as a entitled brat that will trow fits if do not get what se want.

William. Is a dick but I like him.

Let's dust off the other important topics: this is log week!
*workstation: while we know he won't receive it until next week, we may have the final specs.
*numbers?: maybe?
*Katie emergency render: yeah
*cinematics: maybe it's time to know more or less if there will be cinematic or just animations.

I think this week will be a conservative log. Focused on phone and coding, some workstation news but I am not expecting much. Once he got the Workdstation I think he will speak more about renders count.

Damn I can hear the potential coming from this thread of the howling of sirens the sound of water flowing from hoses the bangs of stun grenades and the smell of pepper spray if ''Nika the Emo'' working dick is significantly bigger than ''Will the Chad''. Ocean needs to really think about this decision it looks like the range of unforgivable sins

I mean, if Nika is a Zane he has either to surpass William or rejecting him entirely. I find the former a more interesting story than the first but we will see. Having him as a nobody we have much more possibilites, but being a Zane I can only see this two. Given that Ocean is a Star Wars fan I would not be surprised if he has his own Skywalkers, with strong on the Chad Force.

 

[sorco2003]

To be honest I never gave much thought on HOW the story will connect, I sure they will and William and the Zanes are gonna be part of SG and the other games - if they ever come- but there is 100 ways of doing it and is the type of thing I am happy to wait play out than try to guess. Maybe William will be a Stan Lee like character and show up, look at the camera, wink twice and you will know that this story only exists because he fucked someone 50 years ago. I like your idea, but I also like the idea of the story being one big story, and I also like the idea of them being their own thing existing on the same world. There is not a right way to do it.

Oh I agree, I was not suggesting he does that. I just don't like this idea. Authors can trick me any time with their story, but when they are given Word of God they should not lie or trick the audience to think one thing or the other. I also agree about being easy to be confronted with a lie, but people still do, not always in a malicious manner. I really don't think Ocean does this, just as a argument " the author lying to us" is one that I am not found off.

LEIA. Sorry, did not wanted to give the impression that you SHOULD like Leia, was just joking. That there is characters that we can like and hate is a praise for Ocean skill. I mostly agree with you about Leia being childish and vindictive that she is obsessed with William, narcissistic tendencies - to be charitable. Leia is all that. But we are 3 chapters in, we don't really know what William did and what they were back then. I am holding judgment on Leia, and we already had a more moral debate on the matter. Regarding the drugs and prostitution. Can a imoral person be a good person ? Maybe. I just think that Leia has much more to her than hurt twin roommate, or at least I hope so.

MON. I have a different view on her than you do. Mon did not moving on. Mon is in denial. She can't even recognize William presence, much less the she is slept with him, " I have nothing to compare". I don't think that a lack of violence response is necessary is a good signal here, granted Monica seems a more balanced person than Leia and I get your overall point. Leia is a bitch.

Taking about being a bitch. KATIE. Just kidding. I do like Katie. But I do find her dynamics far too tiresome and quite frankly far more childish than Leia's. Katie is one character that changed much with the rework. For what I remember from the OG she was a full bitch and then we heard her sad story. Never really cared much for her there. New Katie is like hot and cold, she teases but does not like to be teased back, is really pleasant at moments and deeply annoying at others. In the rework she is more of a balanced character, she does not take all the blame for William leaving as she did in the OG, but she is not guilt free. That said, I am more suspicious of her than I am of Leia, Leia shows herself you know that you can expect anything from her, I can at least respect that. Katie seems... I don't have the English word. I just find more hard to trust her than I do Leia, I know what expect of Leia, I don't of Katie. She comes across to me as a entitled brat that will trow fits if do not get what se want.

William. Is a dick but I like him.



I think this week will be a conservative log. Focused on phone and coding, some workstation news but I am not expecting much. Once he got the Workdstation I think he will speak more about renders count.



I mean, if Nika is a Zane he has either to surpass William or rejecting him entirely. I find the former a more interesting story than the first but we will see. Having him as a nobody we have much more possibilites, but being a Zane I can only see this two. Given that Ocean is a Star Wars fan I would not be surprised if he has his own Skywalkers, with strong on the Chad Force.

Obviously me being me, I'm going to stop and talk about Katie.

While your observation is quite accurate (I think that is the author's intention) it is worth mentioning things that should lead us to that. I'm going to start with just from the rework for here, then a bit of the old WIAB.
Katie is a teenager, unlike the other characters, she should and has to behave the way she does. She is still a child, who has gone through a traumatic event that she may have caused (we don't know the whole story yet).
Besides, she is written in such a way that you should realize that she doesn't know how to fight, she doesn't have the necessary resources to be at the height of a sarcastic confrontation, she only knows how to give direct blows of “rage”. And this is more noticeable when she is surrounded by other characters, her interactions with Zoey, with Miru, Mon, Dana, all show a girl in essence “good” (with all that that can mean in the WIAB universe) but above all, clueless.
In the old WIAB, she seemed like a hurricane, a force of nature, but seeing her again after the revelation of her story, you should (or that's the intention) see her differently, a hurt girl who didn't really know how to fight, and who needed to walk away so she wouldn't do the same thing again. "I killed my roommate.""everyone hates me, so I hate me, too"
The difference between the two approaches is the time given for things to happen. From the violent turn in the old WIAB to the more serene approach of the new one.

As for the log, we are at the end of January, if the optimistic vision is close to reality (i.e. March/April) we are in time to receive more conclusive news, it is necessary to put an approximate date to those Steam/GoG pages for example.

 

[LHDLLB]

Obviously me being me, I'm going to stop and talk about Katie.

While your observation is quite accurate (I think that is the author's intention) it is worth mentioning things that should lead us to that. I'm going to start with just from the rework for here, then a bit of the old WIAB.
Katie is a teenager, unlike the other characters, she should and has to behave the way she does. She is still a child, who has gone through a traumatic event that she may have caused (we don't know the whole story yet).
Besides, she is written in such a way that you should realize that she doesn't know how to fight, she doesn't have the necessary resources to be at the height of a sarcastic confrontation, she only knows how to give direct blows of “rage”. And this is more noticeable when she is surrounded by other characters, her interactions with Zoey, with Miru, Mon, Dana, all show a girl in essence “good” (with all that that can mean in the WIAB universe) but above all, clueless.
In the old WIAB, she seemed like a hurricane, a force of nature, but seeing her again after the revelation of her story, you should (or that's the intention) see her differently, a hurt girl who didn't really know how to fight, and who needed to walk away so she wouldn't do the same thing again. "I killed my roommate.""everyone hates me, so I hate me, too"
The difference between the two approaches is the time given for things to happen. From the violent turn in the old WIAB to the more serene approach of the new one.

As for the log, we are at the end of January, if the optimistic vision is close to reality (i.e. March/April) we are in time to receive more conclusive news, it is necessary to put an approximate date to those Steam/GoG pages for example.

Oh I agree. I don't hate Katie, I quite like her, I just don't have the patience to deal with her. Leia at least is fun, she teases, she pulls back, she gives in. She might fuck yours brains out or your whole life up. Katie just throws tantrums. I understand her age, and her backstory, I am not indifferent to it, I just do not have the patience for it. She should not talk a big game if she can not back it up. And then when you respond to her she just set fires in everything. At least in the OG she could back up. I too am unsure if she regrets doing whatever she did, she might feel guilty of its consequences but I don't think she regrets the doing. Problem here is that we don't know what happened and why it happened. So you might like Katie more and William and Leia are the real bad guys on the other way around.

I mean, are we optimistic ? I am less sure, the updates only seems to grow bigger. For this log I am not expecting much, but when he sets up the station I think he will evaluate how much work he has to do and how much time will take to do it, right now he can't.