VN Ren'Py Where It All Began [S1 Ch.4 Fix 1 Steam] [Oceanlab]

[yossa999]

You're both right in your own way, because holy hell - someone bought a ticket to a Linkin Park concert, but Justin Bieber came out with a guitar singing Linkin Park songs.

Half the crowd will say: 'Well, it's still music and Linkin Park songs,' while the other half will scream: 'This is bullshit, we've been scammed.

Let's actually take the analog further:

There was a club, it was a dive bar called old WiaB, had a door fee no one paid but the regulars. Had comedy nights, country, blues and the odd hip hop act, maybe some punk. Got a make over as a bright shiny new venue, decided to call itself Wiab Ch1-3. Hadn't yet decided what music was playing, was keeping it all non-committal, but was going for highly polished professional vibe, no bands getting drunk and puking anywhere anytime like before. But it was bright and shiny, and highly anticipated. People kept wondering how it would be different from the old club - sure it was shiny, but the themes and genres weren't locked in. What kind of bands could they expect? Looked promising, from the few industry do's that the place actually put on.

Then the club couldn't pay rent and wasn't finished renovating.

You're the manager who has to solve this. What happens?

A: Club opens as as, but fails to meet the city planning regulations. Puts on music that goes against the policies of the current council's guidelines. Club closes permanently, undermining the owner's portfolio. Eyes are on compliance with twice as much scrutiny.

B: Club renovates and puts on drum and bass, dance, techno, whatever the crazy *paying* kids are into. Does the market research into what they think the majority of people with money for the entrance fee want to see. Old patrons come around and feel pissed off. Some are happy enough, because it's their 'hood, while others wonder why they're still standing in front of a club they no longer like, rather than finding a new dive bar for a drink.

C: Pretend the city is wrong and that somehow a single independant WiaB can take on the regulations and win, rsulting in A.

There's a couple of things this scenario says to me. A or C result in no WiaB open for business. You'll just look at the start of careers in black and white nostalgia. You'll never get to see the grand opening of this because it shut down. Or you go find a new bar that feels comfortable like home, even though the city is actively enforcing it's regulations, prohibition style. Eventually, you'll not find the kinds of clubs that were open back then, because the devs can't afford to run at a loss.

Lastly in B there's the quality of the renovations. They meet the city regulations, so it can open, and start paying rent without pulling money from the other club that's doing pop music for the college kids. Is the renovation good? Well, it's open and compliant, but they rushed to open, no matter how long it took. Can the club be renovated while open? Yes. Will it happen? Unknown.

Let's not confuse the renovation with the necessity of the change. The marketplace is changing and there will be a lot of devs who have to consider how they're also going to renovate. Old school patrons of all these underground clubs will feel abandoned, not just this thread. The industry's moving that way, and no complaint about free speech will change that.

The only thing I can add to this. Don't know about you but I'm happy that I didn't go to the RNasc's favorite restaurant where they serve shit on the plates.
Because, you know, of the mafia reasons.

 

[BobTheDuck]

The only thing I can add to this. Don't know about you but I'm happy that I didn't go to the RNasc's favorite restaurant where they serve shit on the plates.
Because, you know, of the mafia reasons.

Heck, when I order Italian, it's always gluten free. What do I know about how real pasta tastes?

 

[Dr.TSoni]

when I order Italian, it's always gluten free.

Know that every time you do something like this a grandmother in Italy dies XD

 

[Crashbullet]

Let's actually take the analog further:

There was a club, it was a dive bar called old WiaB, had a door fee no one paid but the regulars. Had comedy nights, country, blues and the odd hip hop act, maybe some punk. Got a make over as a bright shiny new venue, decided to call itself Wiab Ch1-3. Hadn't yet decided what music was playing, was keeping it all non-committal, but was going for highly polished professional vibe, no bands getting drunk and puking anywhere anytime like before. But it was bright and shiny, and highly anticipated. People kept wondering how it would be different from the old club - sure it was shiny, but the themes and genres weren't locked in. What kind of bands could they expect? Looked promising, from the few industry do's that the place actually put on.

Then the club couldn't pay rent and wasn't finished renovating.

You're the manager who has to solve this. What happens?

A: Club opens as as, but fails to meet the city planning regulations. Puts on music that goes against the policies of the current council's guidelines. Club closes permanently, undermining the owner's portfolio. Eyes are on compliance with twice as much scrutiny.

B: Club renovates and puts on drum and bass, dance, techno, whatever the crazy *paying* kids are into. Does the market research into what they think the majority of people with money for the entrance fee want to see. Old patrons come around and feel pissed off. Some are happy enough, because it's their 'hood, while others wonder why they're still standing in front of a club they no longer like, rather than finding a new dive bar for a drink.

C: Pretend the city is wrong and that somehow a single independant WiaB can take on the regulations and win, rsulting in A.

There's a couple of things this scenario says to me. A or C result in no WiaB open for business. You'll just look at the start of careers in black and white nostalgia. You'll never get to see the grand opening of this because it shut down. Or you go find a new bar that feels comfortable like home, even though the city is actively enforcing it's regulations, prohibition style. Eventually, you'll not find the kinds of clubs that were open back then, because the devs can't afford to run at a loss.

Lastly in B there's the quality of the renovations. They meet the city regulations, so it can open, and start paying rent without pulling money from the other club that's doing pop music for the college kids. Is the renovation good? Well, it's open and compliant, but they rushed to open, no matter how long it took. Can the club be renovated while open? Yes. Will it happen? Unknown.

Let's not confuse the renovation with the necessity of the change. The marketplace is changing and there will be a lot of devs who have to consider how they're also going to renovate. Old school patrons of all these underground clubs will feel abandoned, not just this thread. The industry's moving that way, and no complaint about free speech will change that.

We're all absolutely right in our opinions - even Ocean turned out to be right. Steam showed us yesterday just how fast his slippers are at changing shoes mid-stride.

Eventually everyone will have to accept the club's program. The strobe lights keep 180 BPM rhythm, but there's a one-handed violinist on stage. Still, the atmosphere and drinks are awesome, and your old buddies are in their usual spots - though they're pretending not to know you

What are we talking about? It’s the same thing, there is simply a YES and a BUT.
Steam brings money, which means it calls the tune. Just at the request of the listeners, it was possible to invite the whole orchestra and turn off the strobe lights.

 

[BobTheDuck]

Just at the request of the listeners, it was possible to invite the whole orchestra and turn off the strobe lights.

Agreed with our post - but to extrapolate on this line, eventually this will not be true. If the city council keeps the doors of WiaB shut because of non compliance, then there are no listeners, and how will the club pay the orchestra? Keeping in mind the callout fee for an orchestra for an evening is probably around $20K for a 70 piece orch at least, the strobe lights and the DJ are far more sustainable when you have to do discount sales every month or so through the booking agent who takes their cut (Steam) and who also enforces their rules of compliance.

The well meaning listeners simply can't pay the club if the booking agents and third parties stonewall. So we're back to the situation, eventually everything resolves down to how we pay to get what we like. If there's no way to pay, businesses won't put on any show.

 

[xCalon]

Heck, when I order Italian, it's always gluten free. What do I know about how real pasta tastes?

 

[BobTheDuck]

View attachment 5050713

As a transylvanian duck who can't eat gluten ...I'd make a great addition to WiaB and SG SCP's

 

[Turret]

Hi!

Thank you at several discussion partners that they show themselves they understand nothing and are simply simping for Ocean!

If I read once more "Ocean was right about incest" I go berserk! These jokers obviously never read my or some other players critic! For us the incest arc is completely optional, if it is in or not, we don´t care! WHAT WE CARE ABOUT IS A COHERENT STORY! And not this regurgitated Mafia crap with plotholes the size of the Polar Sea!

 

[yossa999]

Hi!

Thank you at several discussion partners that they show themselves they understand nothing and are simply simping for Ocean!

If I read once more "Ocean was right about incest" I go berserk! These jokers obviously never read my or some other players critic! For us the incest arc is completely optional, if it is in or not, we don´t care! WHAT WE CARE ABOUT IS A COHERENT STORY! And not this regurgitated Mafia crap with plotholes the size of the Polar Sea!

Ocean was right about incest. And no I never read any critics.

 

[Crashbullet]

Hi!

Thank you at several discussion partners that they show themselves they understand nothing and are simply simping for Ocean!

If I read once more "Ocean was right about incest" I go berserk! These jokers obviously never read my or some other players critic! For us the incest arc is completely optional, if it is in or not, we don´t care! WHAT WE CARE ABOUT IS A COHERENT STORY! And not this regurgitated Mafia crap with plotholes the size of the Polar Sea!

I agree with the ocean being right about incest (the acceptance stage) or did we read the same thing about steam yesterday? I disagree with the rest of the storyline.
And we can finish already, history is written by the winners, the ocean won yesterday, whether we agree with this or not, we do NOT pay him 1 million a month to tell him how to do it, we are not Black Rock and Ubisoft.

 

[byaaahh]

...except the incest is still there.

Whether you like to admit it or not, William is by all accounts a member of the Zane family, raised by Helen and Dylan from an infant. Shit, he continues to use the name. Once anything sexual happens with Helen/Leia/Katie, Ocean's still in trouble and I don't think the "They were babysitting them 24/7 for 15 years!" excuse is going to fly.

 

[BobTheDuck]

Hi!

Thank you at several discussion partners that they show themselves they understand nothing and are simply simping for Ocean!

If I read once more "Ocean was right about incest" I go berserk! These jokers obviously never read my or some other players critic! For us the incest arc is completely optional, if it is in or not, we don´t care! WHAT WE CARE ABOUT IS A COHERENT STORY! And not this regurgitated Mafia crap with plotholes the size of the Polar Sea!

Shout louder, maybe we'll hear you? Come on, we've heard your points repeatedly. We can also offer our points repeatedly.

As loud as you shout - when a patron OFFERED to send Ocean some criticism, you just rehashed the i-theme. You don't have a plot solution for WiaB that satisfies Steam or SS's terms. Your steam/free speech defense of your points won't get you anywhere now, you'd better shout at Steam. And paypal will target GOG before long, it's just smaller so less noticeable.

So really, tell us again how to right a story that is abandoned, tell us again how to get a plot blocked on the platforms that devs rely on for income. You haven't written a cohesive critique that wouldn't risk th game being banned.

If you really believe in free speech and people's right to their own opinion, other people enjoying the game shouldn't offend you.

 

[Fazed]

Lets see how long it takes them to try to push for a removal of all sexual content. I mean, they already tried. Now they will try to slowly trim the hedges instead of going for the trunk. To think that a payment processor could make impossible for you to buy any content they do not agree with is insane. They could do it on anything arbitrarily.

 

[Maccabbee]

Don't GASLIGHT.

The statement you made was:

"Scarlett the Doctor married her brother-in-law's (friend? cousin? partner?), Joe Arano."

You state Joe being Dylan's friend/cousin/partner as fact, when it is solely your opinion, and not based on any dialogues in the game to date. It has nothing to do with it turning out to be correct or not.

I posed this question because I wanted to see who you really were - someone who would dig their heals in and gaslight their way out of a badly-worded statement, or someone who could admit what they stated as fact is merely supposition.

Thank you for confirming who you really are.

Do you or do you not see the "?" in that? That would indicate a question, or in this case a theory. Learn to read.

 

[RNasc4444]

Suddenly, the dance floor in the club explodes with excited screams.

I've been folowing this thread very closely since the update came out. Those screams weren't from excitement

The only thing I can add to this. Don't know about you but I'm happy that I didn't go to the RNasc's favorite restaurant where they serve shit on the plates.

Factually incorrect! For the sake of the analogy, let's put it this way. Let's say there 26 restaurants I frequent. This would be my 25th favorite. There is only one other I dislike more...looking at you KG

...except the incest is still there.

Whether you like to admit it or not, William is by all accounts a member of the Zane family, raised by Helen and Dylan from an infant. Shit, he continues to use the name. Once anything sexual happens with Helen/Leia/Katie, Ocean's still in trouble and I don't think the "They were babysitting them 24/7 for 15 years!" excuse is going to fly.

This is what I don't get. But I'm also not a connoisseur of the Patreon, SS, GOG or Steam TOS's. I've read here that Patreon opposes sexual activity between not only blood relatives but "household" ones. Which includes all types of step whatevers and adoptions and whatnot. But does Steam make that distinction? Does it only oppose sexual content between blood relatives?

Welp nevermind. After doing a bit of reading it's clear Steam is just saying they'll comply to any objection by payment processors so they couldn't care less about any distinctions. What we should find out soon is if WiAB remains compliant. I'd love to know what payment processors think about a guy fondling the tits of his adoptive mother.

 

[Maccabbee]

I've been folowing this thread very closely since the update came out. Those screams weren't from excitement

Factually incorrect! For the sake of the analogy, let's put it this way. Let's say there 26 restaurants I frequent. This would be my 25th favorite. There is only one other I dislike more...looking at you KG

This is what I don't get. But I'm also not a connoisseur of the Patreon, SS, GOG or Steam TOS's. I've read here that Patreon opposes sexual activity between not only blood relatives but "household" ones. Which includes all types of step whatevers and adoptions and whatnot. But does Steam make that distinction? Does it only oppose sexual content between blood relatives?

You should realize by now that these are NOT the preferences of Patreon, Steam, GoG or anyone other than the payment card industry. They are, in turn, pressuring the big purveyors/supporters of games that use their services, telling them that they will ban their company from using their cards if they don't "clean up" and prevent certain content from being paid for through them.

That could be because of pressure from their board or stockholders, the various governments in countries that they operate in, or just because they want to.

Patreon would take money from anyone that wants to give it to anybody that wants to set up shop in Patreon. Steam wants all games in the universe to be available in Steam (Gabe wants a new yacht, I guess). GoG is GoG. They all need to take payments in as many forms as possible, or they lose customers.

VISA and MasterCard are the dominant payment processors. There are others (and don't say PayPal, because all their payments then go through V/MC on the backend). ALL Debit card purchases go through V/MC. Direct bank transfers mostly do as well, because banks contract with Visa or MC for those services, or go through other services that then use Visa/MC on their backend.

This is either a moral/religious issue for them, or they are being pushed by regulators about it. Nothing else makes sense. Nobody, especially the greedy money guys, wants to take less money.

 

[RNasc4444]

You should realize by now that these are NOT the preferences of Patreon, Steam, GoG or anyone other than the payment card industry. They are, in turn, pressuring the big purveyors/supporters of games that use their services, telling them that they will ban their company from using their cards if they don't "clean up" and prevent certain content from being paid for through them.

Bud I was arguing this exact point in this website in 2019. Trust me I get it.

 

[LHDLLB]

C: I mean, fish ARE supposed to be kept wetALL THE TIME right?
1: Classiest. 2 feels overused because it's either Frohn or Elena later. 3? It's a trying hard to look different look when we had barely any time with one. Mon seems less concerned with looks than Katie or Leia, I feel her story should be she's found her equilibrium and Willi's interrupted it. Too soon for her to be changing herself - it would be better for her to be astablished as comfortable and content with Ben before Ben gets jealous, triggering her change to get attention. Ideally we'd have her trying to win Ben over before she then gets involved with William as revenge against Ben's jealousy.

I will admit that A is my favourite look for her but it's always slightly poisonous to me because of SG, and the miracle of length between A and B, the ends in A are all different lengths, while B is a clean line. B is nostalgia, so kinda important. D is the precursor of mature Katie so I gotta like that. E... what? False is correct. Why does this exist when C is already real?



Well I AM the best duck in the thread, but B2? I got no bombs for ya

Is not that I disagree with you, but we know virtually nothing of Mon and her relationship with Ben. It always looked to me that Mon and Ben were a couple born out of comvinence, he liked Dana and she needed someone. But even that is just speculation. I am really curious to see her story but I don't think we know much to judge her relationship.

 

[Maccabbee]

Is not that I disagree with you, but we know virtually nothing of Mon and her relationship with Ben. It always looked to me that Mon and Ben were a couple born out of comvinence, he liked Dana and she needed someone. But even that is just speculation. I am really curious to see her story but I don't think we know much to judge her relationship.

Well, Mon gave her virginity to Will at a party on a table. That says that she really was into him, she was really drunk, or both (unless she was just using him). Ben is the opposite of Will. He doesn't seem impulsive, is a beta, and she can totally control things in the relationship. Does she really love him? No idea. She still hasn't gotten over the rather extreme trauma of the party incident about a decade ago, so...

 

[BobTheDuck]

Is not that I disagree with you, but we know virtually nothing of Mon and her relationship with Ben. It always looked to me that Mon and Ben were a couple born out of comvinence, he liked Dana and she needed someone. But even that is just speculation. I am really curious to see her story but I don't think we know much to judge her relationship.

Regardless of if they were out of convenience, Mon is an angel, so Ben's behaviour is suddenly way too jealous for a beta like he is portrayed as. It's just my opinion, but hedidn't even know William wronged her, only she bacame a police officer because some guy wronged her, and he doesn't know who it was. I'm sure he heard the rumours about Mon if he was also in Dana's circle. So he's put 2+2 together and his answer is - Monica wants to have the guy who wronged her dick her again?

Good riddance to him Mon, he's unworthy. Might as well get the Gigachad now It's just a bit too soon.