I think it has something to do with Leia and Williams relationship. There has been a few instances where the relationship is discussed. Flashback Leia and William were talking about there month relationship and she said he has to give her something to celebrate. He gave her a heart cut out of wood. Remember at the last update to get her to talk to him he made a heart shaped out of wood and left it at her door.Katie mentioned about having his hand under Leia skirt. When they were on the couch watching the TV. William was talking about Leia doing wrong to Monica and she said how dare she take what was hers.
- Thread starter 7767
- Start date
- Dec 24, 2018
- 767
- 3,661
But if the 'her' is Leia, Katie telling Leia about Willi and Leia makes no sense. That's why I think it is something else. Also the way Leia greets Miru, the banter between Willi and Leia, it's like everyone in the family would have to be blind or deaf not to notice. If the 'her' mentioned is Leia and Katie thought William was stupid to think she'd tell 'her', what was Willi worried that Katie could threaten to tell Leia that Leia doesn't know?
The her is not Leia. Your right doesn't make sense. Earlier in the threads someone said the grandmother since she wanted to put them in that religious cult. His mother was absolutely against it. If Katie had revealed that to the Grandmother that would have been all the ammo she needed to get them put in.
- Dec 24, 2018
- 767
- 3,661
The thing is we don't know who the her is at all (it is just guesses and theories right now because the story doesn't say), but we do know that Leia's opinion is the most important one to Willi. Look for when he gets tears in his eyes and why. The grandmother sounds like he wasn't frightened of her at all when describing her, she was more of an annoyance or something worth laughing over than a threat or someone to cry over.
Yeah, but there are more family members than those we have seen so far, and even so maybe is telling something bad that he did to someone one outside the family with the protecional to tear them apart, maybe William has beating someone and Dylan and Helen would cover for him but if Katie told "Her" William would be in much more trouble. Is not that I don't think it can be Leia, is just that as much things in Ocean games, we don't know enough.
I remember very little of the old version, but was trying to give food for thought,. Maybe ? I still am hoping for at least a Leia kiss in the next update and I am not expecting the camp trip for at least end of season.
I too think is the grandmother, for not much reason beyond she was the first person that came to mind the first time I read it. Maybe is not that William cared about her opinion but his grandmother had a position to force her will upon him and the others, maybe send him and Leia to the religious camp or maybe cut money ( someone had say the the Zane money is
inherited ) either way he chose what he thought was the less of two evils.
I think that we may influence how their relationship will evolve,strengthening or weakening it, katie is not trilled with the idea of Zoey having sex with William where Zoey is more than willing, than has the aspect that you mentioned, than has Katie's felling toward William. Maybe if Mc is on Katie's good side he has sex with Zoey with out drama, maybe he fucks Zoey to piss off Katie, I am not a NTR fan but it seems to me that cheating is at the core of much of the relationships, Mon, Dana, Helen in the game.
Just a long way to say that I agree for your reasons and others.
Can't say that I fully agree but I like the ideia that William had a thing with Asavera, maybe this is one of the reasons Leia don't want to tell him much, and it does fit pretty well with the idea o betrayal the game has, but who might be she ? . Just don't see young William being the Machiavellian, but I can be wrong.
- Dec 24, 2018
- 767
- 3,661
I'm making a personal effort to not add theories that have too much reliance on things outside the stated plot ...but not having much luck. I've said it before, but Ocean is great at making mysteries, and making us care about discovering them.
I really like the direction of your thoughts. My reason for thinking her=Leia was more because I inherently believe that Willi was blackmailed over something more damaging than a non sexual relationship with Leia. The 'her' mentioned is someone Katie wouldn't be stupid enough to tell, so that does narrow it down. The grandmother having inheritance money - is that mentioned in the script? The way I read the novel the grandmother sounded like a strict lace doiley and teapot kind of grandmother - the kind that thinks a church summer camp is fun and wholesome rather than the start of a horror story. BUt thats not the script either, all we know is that the grandmother is there, and Helen used to burn the flyers for the camps, we've only got one mention of her, and it's not in a fearful way, it sounds more like the grandmother is a busybody and Helen was having none of it:
l "It's about an organization we've encountered in our youth."
l "Remember the flyers about these religious summer camps?"
l "Where our fucking grandma wanted to send us?"
scene af242 with dssa
d "Oh yeah, I remember them."
d "Helen always burned them."
I do agree that it's more likely to be something more than Leia that caused William to leave, as he didn't flinch when Dana mentioned the rumours about him and Leia after he left.
I don't think the old version had anything specific to cause him to leave, but in the old version it was most likely being found out about Leia, whereas now I'm unsure. I think the idea of WIlli having set up up the conditions for someone as mysterious as Asavera is intriguing, but again it's not part of the script, so it's hard for me to agree without considering it a wild goose chase. But I do like the idea that Willi's action all those years ago set all these current dramas in motion, that the revenge or targeting of the Zane's is due to his lack of restaint or wisdom as a kid, and he crossed some serious boundaries. I don't think there was anything Machiavellian in his intents, but something that snowballed into the current situation (potentially).
And yeah, most of this could go 37 different ways, because all this is speculation extending the script to it's limits over pretty thin ice.
I certainty can relate to the felling, one of the reasons that I seek out this forum was to test my ideas, but it is hard given that Ocean drops crumbs of information. But then again maybe this is the reason it is so engaging.
About the money I truly don't know, not long ago I asked about where Zane's money came from and someone answered
heritage, as I did not had a better answer I accepted it. Now we had two completely different takes on the grandmother, the moment I read this dialogue I saw a oppressing figure too both her children and grandchildren that Helen tried to protected, plus I don't think that has a "good Zane" so maybe I'm biased
William has a better poker face than me, my would have left my skull if I was him.
Yeah, I agree that the motivations of his leaving has changed or at least is not as clear as it was, the Asavera ideia is one that I also like but is kinda a goose chanse even if a fun one.
- Dec 24, 2018
- 767
- 3,661
I'm all for playing devil's advocate and wild goose chases, because sometimes they uncover unrelated info I'd skipped,and it also forces me to recheck the story's actual content rather than what I assumed. I think it's healthy to read and allow our imaginations to fill the gaps, but for further enjoyment we have to wonder about the motivations, after all we only ever hear Willi's internal dialogue, so everything is inherently biased. The fact there are crumbs means there's a trail or two to follow even if it's misdirection. I consider this the fun part of any story, to try and find out the size of the playing filed/world and the rules it operates by. The more consistent the rules and world building, the more satisfying it is to find our intuition has a payoff down the line. There's really no right or wrong here, just speculation.
The reason I like Doomyk 's idea about Asavera is that it does make the plot travel a full circle; Willi has to return to fix the sins of his past, and as he digs, we uncover more and more what an immature asshole he was, but he has the chance to make things right. It's a very classic plot line in that sense, but it's very rewarding with an imaginative plot. We've already seen that with Monica - what if what he did to past Asavera leads them to become Asavera? It's certainly an interesting concept, and would be fuelled by Willi sending his 'message' to Krayt.
Ultimately though, we don't know who the final boss is: we're yet to see who is on the cult side that Leia and Abigail mention, so Asavera might be a completely incidental character with nothing to do with Willi's past, because the cult leader is the antagonist. But even that is speculation - it's just where Leia and Abigail point the blame, Willi knows nothing other than what they've said.
The only certain outcomes so far is WIlli, Katie, Leia, Donna and Elena survive, and somehow (my money's on Miru) Ayua is conceived. Other than that it's wide open, with plenty of insinuations.
Since Ayua is Eurasian, it is quite certain she is Miru and Willi´s (maybe Dylan´s, but less likely) kid. In SG it is mentioned that her parents have a fitness/martial arts studio, something that was a thought experiment in Wiab already with Willi and Miru. Going by Ayua´s appearance/style in SG, it is also rather certain that "Auntie Leia" is/was a major influence on her.
- Dec 24, 2018
- 767
- 3,661
Yeah, I'm going with the simplest most obvious answer myself; Willi's repeated creampies have a certain blossoming effect on Miru's waistline at some point. Seeing she's the only person so far that is getting the love juice, it's really hard to assume anyone else right now. Of course, Leia could have an Asian lover at some point... I guess?
I'm still sticking with Willi and Miru though, it makes the most sense, I agree.