VN Ren'Py Where It All Began [Ch. 3 Full] [Oceanlab]

[BobTheDuck]

In my head canon, was the "her" Katie talked about, aimed into the direction of the grandma. It's a while back since I played the scene, but as far as I remember, is the grandma described as a batshit crazy religious fanatic.

Entirely possible, but I'm not sure Willi would care about her opinion, based on the way he talked about the grandma, while we know 100% her cares a lot what Dylan, Helen and Leia think.

Most importantly, Ocean's done really well at hiding the source of the drama, as much as he's hidden the cause of Helen's inability to speak. The hope is that when we discover what set everything off, that it'll be significant enough for all the mystery that has built up, and that it's not a letdown.

It would be very Oedipus Rex style to have Willi uncover that what he did that caused him to leave ultimately was the cause of Helen's problems and led to the rise of the gangs. That's probably too epic, but I'd like to think that the stakes are high, even for a childhood prank gone wrong or whatever it was. Both SG and WiaB seem to have the concept of people paing for the consequences of choices they weren't mature enough to comprehend or foresee.

 

[Maviarab]

not a letdown

It's going to be glorious!

 

[Drakenite]

The kind of girl to put milk in first.

 

[Doomyk]

Entirely possible, but I'm not sure Willi would care about her opinion, based on the way he talked about the grandma, while we know 100% her cares a lot what Dylan, Helen and Leia think.

Most importantly, Ocean's done really well at hiding the source of the drama, as much as he's hidden the cause of Helen's inability to speak. The hope is that when we discover what set everything off, that it'll be significant enough for all the mystery that has built up, and that it's not a letdown.

It would be very Oedipus Rex style to have Willi uncover that what he did that caused him to leave ultimately was the cause of Helen's problems and led to the rise of the gangs. That's probably too epic, but I'd like to think that the stakes are high, even for a childhood prank gone wrong or whatever it was. Both SG and WiaB seem to have the concept of people paing for the consequences of choices they weren't mature enough to comprehend or foresee.

And in my opinion, this mystical Asavera can fit terribly into both the past and the present with the whole idea of revenge, betrayal, and the fact that William, through his actions, could have created the Princess and Asavera.
Going back in time. I wouldn't rule out the possibility that William himself made sure that Katie found out about his relationship with Leia. Let's just say that Leia is not the kind of person you can just break up with. Therefore,the *perfect* plan is outlined. Katie finds out, tells his parents, an explosion occurs, William is *forced* to freeze his relationship with Leia. However, Katie did not tell, and also accidentally found out about the third party.
Back to the present. Leia still doesn’t know the truth. However, uhhhh, even just friendship/business, not to mention a possible relationship with Asavera, is the highest form of betrayal. Even if the theory about the past with Asavera is incorrect, the present can provide many interesting and dangerous events.

 

[Doomyk]

By the way, the car in сhapter 3 Majestia LR looks very much like an Aston Martin db5/6

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[Adhdclassic]

I agree, that's why I'm curious as to what Katie threatened him with:


k "You piece of shit left because a little girl threatened to spill some hot beans."
scene af593 with vpunch
k "Pussy!"
scene af594 with dssa
d "Pussy? You piece of shit didn't give any fucks of what would've happened!"
scene af593 with dssa
k "Oh please. So what if I had told them?"
scene af594 with dssa
d "That's not what I'm talking about!"
scene af595 with dssa
k "Well, you must be dumber than I thought if you actually thought I'd tell her."


Rethinking this, it makes me think that Willi thought Katie was going to spill the beans to Dylan and Helen (them) and Leia (her). So whatever it is, is something that would affect Leia's impression of Willi, and we know that Mon being creampied wasn't a secret... so.... I got nothing. I literally can't imagine what Willi's hiding that was secret from Dylan, Helen and Leia.

I think it has something to do with Leia and Williams relationship. There has been a few instances where the relationship is discussed. Flashback Leia and William were talking about there month relationship and she said he has to give her something to celebrate. He gave her a heart cut out of wood. Remember at the last update to get her to talk to him he made a heart shaped out of wood and left it at her door.Katie mentioned about having his hand under Leia skirt. When they were on the couch watching the TV. William was talking about Leia doing wrong to Monica and she said how dare she take what was hers.

 

[BobTheDuck]

I think it has something to do with Leia and Williams relationship. There has been a few instances where the relationship is discussed. Flashback Leia and William were talking about there month relationship and she said he has to give her something to celebrate. He gave her a heart cut out of wood. Remember at the last update to get her to talk to him he made a heart shaped out of wood and left it at her door.Katie mentioned about having his hand under Leia skirt. When they were on the couch watching the TV. William was talking about Leia doing wrong to Monica and she said how dare she take what was hers.

But if the 'her' is Leia, Katie telling Leia about Willi and Leia makes no sense. That's why I think it is something else. Also the way Leia greets Miru, the banter between Willi and Leia, it's like everyone in the family would have to be blind or deaf not to notice. If the 'her' mentioned is Leia and Katie thought William was stupid to think she'd tell 'her', what was Willi worried that Katie could threaten to tell Leia that Leia doesn't know?

 

[Adhdclassic]

But if the 'her' is Leia, Katie telling Leia about Willi and Leia makes no sense. That's why I think it is something else. Also the way Leia greets Miru, the banter between Willi and Leia, it's like everyone in the family would have to be blind or deaf not to notice. If the 'her' mentioned is Leia and Katie thought William was stupid to think she'd tell 'her', what was Willi worried that Katie could threaten to tell Leia that Leia doesn't know?

The her is not Leia. Your right doesn't make sense. Earlier in the threads someone said the grandmother since she wanted to put them in that religious cult. His mother was absolutely against it. If Katie had revealed that to the Grandmother that would have been all the ammo she needed to get them put in.

 

[BobTheDuck]

The her is not Leia. Your right doesn't make sense. Earlier in the threads someone said the grandmother since she wanted to put them in that religious cult. His mother was absolutely against it. If Katie had revealed that to the Grandmother that would have been all the ammo she needed to get them put in.

The thing is we don't know who the her is at all (it is just guesses and theories right now because the story doesn't say), but we do know that Leia's opinion is the most important one to Willi. Look for when he gets tears in his eyes and why. The grandmother sounds like he wasn't frightened of her at all when describing her, she was more of an annoyance or something worth laughing over than a threat or someone to cry over.

 

[LHDLLB]

The her vs them is pretty distinct, the context is about tearing the family apart, and Willi only really cares what family think of him, so I think it's most likely Leia - and that means something she'd not like at all.

In the old version, Katie being first was a thing, if you chose certain paths on the camping trip. Katie freaks out a bit because she gets to you first. Not sure if it'll play out the same way now.

Yeah, but there are more family members than those we have seen so far, and even so maybe is telling something bad that he did to someone one outside the family with the protecional to tear them apart, maybe William has beating someone and Dylan and Helen would cover for him but if Katie told "Her" William would be in much more trouble. Is not that I don't think it can be Leia, is just that as much things in Ocean games, we don't know enough.

I remember very little of the old version, but was trying to give food for thought,. Maybe ? I still am hoping for at least a Leia kiss in the next update and I am not expecting the camp trip for at least end of season.

In my head canon, was the "her" Katie talked about, aimed into the direction of the grandma. It's a while back since I played the scene, but as far as I remember, is the grandma described as a batshit crazy religious fanatic.

Entirely possible, but I'm not sure Willi would care about her opinion, based on the way he talked about the grandma, while we know 100% her cares a lot what Dylan, Helen and Leia think.

I too think is the grandmother, for not much reason beyond she was the first person that came to mind the first time I read it. Maybe is not that William cared about her opinion but his grandmother had a position to force her will upon him and the others, maybe send him and Leia to the religious camp or maybe cut money ( someone had say the the Zane money is
inherited ) either way he chose what he thought was the less of two evils.

By the way, it looks like the relationship between Katie and Zoy won’t last long. In the last chapter there was a small hint that the *opening* of the relationship was Zoye’s initiative, and Katie was't cool with it. Opening relationships with pushing rarely end well.

I think that we may influence how their relationship will evolve,strengthening or weakening it, katie is not trilled with the idea of Zoey having sex with William where Zoey is more than willing, than has the aspect that you mentioned, than has Katie's felling toward William. Maybe if Mc is on Katie's good side he has sex with Zoey with out drama, maybe he fucks Zoey to piss off Katie, I am not a NTR fan but it seems to me that cheating is at the core of much of the relationships, Mon, Dana, Helen in the game.
Just a long way to say that I agree for your reasons and others.

And in my opinion, this mystical Asavera can fit terribly into both the past and the present with the whole idea of revenge, betrayal, and the fact that William, through his actions, could have created the Princess and Asavera.
Going back in time. I wouldn't rule out the possibility that William himself made sure that Katie found out about his relationship with Leia. Let's just say that Leia is not the kind of person you can just break up with. Therefore,the *perfect* plan is outlined. Katie finds out, tells his parents, an explosion occurs, William is *forced* to freeze his relationship with Leia. However, Katie did not tell, and also accidentally found out about the third party.
Back to the present. Leia still doesn’t know the truth. However, uhhhh, even just friendship/business, not to mention a possible relationship with Asavera, is the highest form of betrayal. Even if the theory about the past with Asavera is incorrect, the present can provide many interesting and dangerous events.

Can't say that I fully agree but I like the ideia that William had a thing with Asavera, maybe this is one of the reasons Leia don't want to tell him much, and it does fit pretty well with the idea o betrayal the game has, but who might be she ? . Just don't see young William being the Machiavellian, but I can be wrong.

 

[BobTheDuck]

Yeah, but there are more family members than those we have seen so far, and even so maybe is telling something bad that he did to someone one outside the family with the protecional to tear them apart, maybe William has beating someone and Dylan and Helen would cover for him but if Katie told "Her" William would be in much more trouble. Is not that I don't think it can be Leia, is just that as much things in Ocean games, we don't know enough.

I remember very little of the old version, but was trying to give food for thought,. Maybe ? I still am hoping for at least a Leia kiss in the next update and I am not expecting the camp trip for at least end of season.




I too think is the grandmother, for not much reason beyond she was the first person that came to mind the first time I read it. Maybe is not that William cared about her opinion but his grandmother had a position to force her will upon him and the others, maybe send him and Leia to the religious camp or maybe cut money ( someone had say the the Zane money is
inherited ) either way he chose what he thought was the less of two evils.



I think that we may influence how their relationship will evolve,strengthening or weakening it, katie is not trilled with the idea of Zoey having sex with William where Zoey is more than willing, than has the aspect that you mentioned, than has Katie's felling toward William. Maybe if Mc is on Katie's good side he has sex with Zoey with out drama, maybe he fucks Zoey to piss off Katie, I am not a NTR fan but it seems to me that cheating is at the core of much of the relationships, Mon, Dana, Helen in the game.
Just a long way to say that I agree for your reasons and others.



Can't say that I fully agree but I like the ideia that William had a thing with Asavera, maybe this is one of the reasons Leia don't want to tell him much, and it does fit pretty well with the idea o betrayal the game has, but who might be she ? . Just don't see young William being the Machiavellian, but I can be wrong.

I'm making a personal effort to not add theories that have too much reliance on things outside the stated plot ...but not having much luck. I've said it before, but Ocean is great at making mysteries, and making us care about discovering them.

I really like the direction of your thoughts. My reason for thinking her=Leia was more because I inherently believe that Willi was blackmailed over something more damaging than a non sexual relationship with Leia. The 'her' mentioned is someone Katie wouldn't be stupid enough to tell, so that does narrow it down. The grandmother having inheritance money - is that mentioned in the script? The way I read the novel the grandmother sounded like a strict lace doiley and teapot kind of grandmother - the kind that thinks a church summer camp is fun and wholesome rather than the start of a horror story. BUt thats not the script either, all we know is that the grandmother is there, and Helen used to burn the flyers for the camps, we've only got one mention of her, and it's not in a fearful way, it sounds more like the grandmother is a busybody and Helen was having none of it:


l "It's about an organization we've encountered in our youth."
l "Remember the flyers about these religious summer camps?"
l "Where our fucking grandma wanted to send us?"
scene af242 with dssa
d "Oh yeah, I remember them."
d "Helen always burned them."


I do agree that it's more likely to be something more than Leia that caused William to leave, as he didn't flinch when Dana mentioned the rumours about him and Leia after he left.

I don't think the old version had anything specific to cause him to leave, but in the old version it was most likely being found out about Leia, whereas now I'm unsure. I think the idea of WIlli having set up up the conditions for someone as mysterious as Asavera is intriguing, but again it's not part of the script, so it's hard for me to agree without considering it a wild goose chase. But I do like the idea that Willi's action all those years ago set all these current dramas in motion, that the revenge or targeting of the Zane's is due to his lack of restaint or wisdom as a kid, and he crossed some serious boundaries. I don't think there was anything Machiavellian in his intents, but something that snowballed into the current situation (potentially).

And yeah, most of this could go 37 different ways, because all this is speculation extending the script to it's limits over pretty thin ice.

 

[LHDLLB]

I'm making a personal effort to not add theories that have too much reliance on things outside the stated plot ...but not having much luck. I've said it before, but Ocean is great at making mysteries, and making us care about discovering them.

I really like the direction of your thoughts. My reason for thinking her=Leia was more because I inherently believe that Willi was blackmailed over something more damaging than a non sexual relationship with Leia. The 'her' mentioned is someone Katie wouldn't be stupid enough to tell, so that does narrow it down. The grandmother having inheritance money - is that mentioned in the script? The way I read the novel the grandmother sounded like a strict lace doiley and teapot kind of grandmother - the kind that thinks a church summer camp is fun and wholesome rather than the start of a horror story. BUt thats not the script either, all we know is that the grandmother is there, and Helen used to burn the flyers for the camps, we've only got one mention of her, and it's not in a fearful way, it sounds more like the grandmother is a busybody and Helen was having none of it:


l "It's about an organization we've encountered in our youth."
l "Remember the flyers about these religious summer camps?"
l "Where our fucking grandma wanted to send us?"
scene af242 with dssa
d "Oh yeah, I remember them."
d "Helen always burned them."


I do agree that it's more likely to be something more than Leia that caused William to leave, as he didn't flinch when Dana mentioned the rumours about him and Leia after he left.

I don't think the old version had anything specific to cause him to leave, but in the old version it was most likely being found out about Leia, whereas now I'm unsure. I think the idea of WIlli having set up up the conditions for someone as mysterious as Asavera is intriguing, but again it's not part of the script, so it's hard for me to agree without considering it a wild goose chase. But I do like the idea that Willi's action all those years ago set all these current dramas in motion, that the revenge or targeting of the Zane's is due to his lack of restaint or wisdom as a kid, and he crossed some serious boundaries. I don't think there was anything Machiavellian in his intents, but something that snowballed into the current situation (potentially).

And yeah, most of this could go 37 different ways, because all this is speculation extending the script to it's limits over pretty thin ice.

I certainty can relate to the felling, one of the reasons that I seek out this forum was to test my ideas, but it is hard given that Ocean drops crumbs of information. But then again maybe this is the reason it is so engaging.

About the money I truly don't know, not long ago I asked about where Zane's money came from and someone answered
heritage, as I did not had a better answer I accepted it. Now we had two completely different takes on the grandmother, the moment I read this dialogue I saw a oppressing figure too both her children and grandchildren that Helen tried to protected, plus I don't think that has a "good Zane" so maybe I'm biased


William has a better poker face than me, my would have left my skull if I was him.

Yeah, I agree that the motivations of his leaving has changed or at least is not as clear as it was, the Asavera ideia is one that I also like but is kinda a goose chanse even if a fun one.

 

[BobTheDuck]

I certainty can relate to the felling, one of the reasons that I seek out this forum was to test my ideas, but it is hard given that Ocean drops crumbs of information. But then again maybe this is the reason it is so engaging.

About the money I truly don't know, not long ago I asked about where Zane's money came from and someone answered
heritage, as I did not had a better answer I accepted it. Now we had two completely different takes on the grandmother, the moment I read this dialogue I saw a oppressing figure too both her children and grandchildren that Helen tried to protected, plus I don't think that has a "good Zane" so maybe I'm biased


William has a better poker face than me, my would have left my skull if I was him.

Yeah, I agree that the motivations of his leaving has changed or at least is not as clear as it was, the Asavera ideia is one that I also like but is kinda a goose chanse even if a fun one.

I'm all for playing devil's advocate and wild goose chases, because sometimes they uncover unrelated info I'd skipped,and it also forces me to recheck the story's actual content rather than what I assumed. I think it's healthy to read and allow our imaginations to fill the gaps, but for further enjoyment we have to wonder about the motivations, after all we only ever hear Willi's internal dialogue, so everything is inherently biased. The fact there are crumbs means there's a trail or two to follow even if it's misdirection. I consider this the fun part of any story, to try and find out the size of the playing filed/world and the rules it operates by. The more consistent the rules and world building, the more satisfying it is to find our intuition has a payoff down the line. There's really no right or wrong here, just speculation.

The reason I like Doomyk 's idea about Asavera is that it does make the plot travel a full circle; Willi has to return to fix the sins of his past, and as he digs, we uncover more and more what an immature asshole he was, but he has the chance to make things right. It's a very classic plot line in that sense, but it's very rewarding with an imaginative plot. We've already seen that with Monica - what if what he did to past Asavera leads them to become Asavera? It's certainly an interesting concept, and would be fuelled by Willi sending his 'message' to Krayt.

Ultimately though, we don't know who the final boss is: we're yet to see who is on the cult side that Leia and Abigail mention, so Asavera might be a completely incidental character with nothing to do with Willi's past, because the cult leader is the antagonist. But even that is speculation - it's just where Leia and Abigail point the blame, Willi knows nothing other than what they've said.

The only certain outcomes so far is WIlli, Katie, Leia, Donna and Elena survive, and somehow (my money's on Miru) Ayua is conceived. Other than that it's wide open, with plenty of insinuations.

 

[Turret]

The only certain outcomes so far is WIlli, Katie, Leia, Donna and Elena survive, and somehow (my money's on Miru) Ayua is conceived. Other than that it's wide open, with plenty of insinuations.

Since Ayua is Eurasian, it is quite certain she is Miru and Willi´s (maybe Dylan´s, but less likely) kid. In SG it is mentioned that her parents have a fitness/martial arts studio, something that was a thought experiment in Wiab already with Willi and Miru. Going by Ayua´s appearance/style in SG, it is also rather certain that "Auntie Leia" is/was a major influence on her.

 

[BobTheDuck]

Since Ayua is Eurasian, it is quite certain she is Miru and Willi´s (maybe Dylan´s, but less likely) kid. In SG it is mentioned that her parents have a fitness/martial arts studio, something that was a thought experiment in Wiab already with Willi and Miru. Going by Ayua´s appearance/style in SG, it is also rather certain that "Auntie Leia" is/was a major influence on her.

Yeah, I'm going with the simplest most obvious answer myself; Willi's repeated creampies have a certain blossoming effect on Miru's waistline at some point. Seeing she's the only person so far that is getting the love juice, it's really hard to assume anyone else right now. Of course, Leia could have an Asian lover at some point... I guess?

I'm still sticking with Willi and Miru though, it makes the most sense, I agree.

 

[N1ghtcrawler]

Hello there.

Do the parents know about Leia and William's relationship? Did William run away because of it? How did Katie blackmail William? Is Asavera connected to William's past? Some kind of cult being the real villain (wait. huh? )

Damn it guys, I just wanted to read your ridiculous theories and now I realize I understand nothing. Despite WiAB being the last game of the two I played, I guess I'll have to play it again before the SG update comes out.

 

[Maviarab]

Hello there.

Do the parents know about Leia and William's relationship? Did William run away because of it? How did Katie blackmail William? Is Asavera connected to William's past? Some kind of cult being the real villain (wait. huh? )

Damn it guys, I just wanted to read your ridiculous theories and now I realize I understand nothing. Despite WiAB being the last game of the two I played, I guess I'll have to play it again before the SG update comes out.

We know....nothing NC.

*shrugs*

 

[wizardcock]

Hello there.

Do the parents know about Leia and William's relationship? Did William run away because of it? How did Katie blackmail William? Is Asavera connected to William's past? Some kind of cult being the real villain (wait. huh? )

Damn it guys, I just wanted to read your ridiculous theories and now I realize I understand nothing. Despite WiAB being the last game of the two I played, I guess I'll have to play it again before the SG update comes out.

we'll probably never really understand it, because Ocean will cover up incest and family talk any way he can. After all, he wants to release on steam instead of just releasing wiab on subscribstar and not freak out about the incest ban.

 

[Maviarab]

we'll probably never really understand it, because Ocean will cover up incest and family talk any way he can. After all, he wants to release on steam instead of just releasing wiab on subscribstar and not freak out about the incest ban.

Incest is fine on Steam.

 

[wizardcock]

Incest is fine on Steam.

Really? Great, that's good news, for some reason I was sure it wasn't.