VN Ren'Py Where the Heart Is [S1 v2024-07-10 BETA] [CheekyGimp]

[Ghostface Reborn]

I wasn't arguing any of that. Yes she ignored the MC when he was a young teen up until his father died and that's wrong. I wouldn't go as far as to call it neglect he was looked after and had everything he needed. She just didn't give him any love or attention.

mistreatment.

 

[Ghostface Reborn]

Right, I never said it didn't.



He says he thought she was a cold hearted bitch because she avoided him, not that she was a cold hearted bitch but again, nobody has said otherwise.



Not quite sure what his dad cheating on his mother had to do with Elaine's attitude....

Getting bored of arguing in circles so i'm only saying one more time....

All she is guilty of is ignoring him. That is it, that's all she did to him, she was never bitchy she was never cruel. He never looked at her like a mother so wasn't expecting it and he already had his opinion of her. She tried but was told to stop so she avoided him to stop making things worse.

You can argue that she's Satan except she wasn't and never was.

The dad mocked Elaine in the MC's will letter about her wanting to mother him and how he shut that shit down.

I didn't even point out how immature the MC sounded with all his "this woman that is shagging my dad won't be my friend ... I hate her"....

In the words of the great Justin Timberlake .... Cry me a River.

she was bitchy. she only stopped for herself.

 

[MrFriendly]

mistreatment.

she was bitchy. she only stopped for herself.

I find it interesting that ignoring and avoiding a child somehow isn't abusive to people. Abuse doesn't have to be active, you don't have to beat someone to hurt them.

I find the defense of Elaine so amusing because she has spent a long time doing the wrong thing - she had an affair with a married man, when she got him and was living with him she followed his orders to ignore a child, when the man died she threw the now 19 year old out of his dad's house, then she gathered up all of the kid's belongings and threatened to throw them out if he didn't come get them... And yet, now that she's suddenly changed her attitude we are all supposed to believe that she is genuine...

I could argue against trusting any of the older women, including Monica, but I really thought that Elaine would have been the one that most of the community would agree was irredeemable (or close to it). Instead there are very passionate defenders who seem to believe that now she can do no wrong, that she is somehow trustworthy when she has spent a much longer amount of time being unworthy of the MC's trust.

 

[Avaron1974]

I find it interesting that ignoring and avoiding a child somehow isn't abusive to people. Abuse doesn't have to be active, you don't have to beat someone to hurt them.

I've seen first hand what real abusive parents are. I'm sure some teens will find their dads lover ignoring them to be a form of child abuse I just happen to disagree.

 

[WhiteyG]

I find it interesting that ignoring and avoiding a child somehow isn't abusive to people. Abuse doesn't have to be active, you don't have to beat someone to hurt them.

I find the defense of Elaine so amusing because she has spent a long time doing the wrong thing - she had an affair with a married man, when she got him and was living with him she followed his orders to ignore a child, when the man died she threw the now 19 year old out of his dad's house, then she gathered up all of the kid's belongings and threatened to throw them out if he didn't come get them... And yet, now that she's suddenly changed her attitude we are all supposed to believe that she is genuine...

I could argue against trusting any of the older women, including Monica, but I really thought that Elaine would have been the one that most of the community would agree was irredeemable (or close to it). Instead there are very passionate defenders who seem to believe that now she can do no wrong, that she is somehow trustworthy when she has spent a much longer amount of time being unworthy of the MC's trust.

I've already done this dance with you and you know my theory. I don't think she will end up being the villian in this story. I've said I could be wrong, but that's the way I'm leaning. As far as ignoring and avoiding equaling abuse sorry that's going way to far. Most teenagers are not trying to spend any time with their family anyway. He was fed and looked after not tied up in the basement and beaten. I wouldn't even go as far as to call it neglect. It certainly wouldn't meet the legal standard for charging them with neglect. He wasn't loved by her, but she wasn't his mother so not really a crime. You can say mistreated to a point, and I'm certainly not pretending she was a saint. She was not good to him that doesn't make her a demon.

 

[WhiteyG]

I've seen first hand what real abusive parents are. I'm sure some teens will find their dads lover ignoring them to be a form of child abuse I just happen to disagree.

I would've given you a thumbs up there, but that felt really wrong. But I do agree that's far from being abuse. Unfortunately I know a little something about that too. Well abusive parent not parents. At least I had one good one.

 

[MrFriendly]

I've seen first hand what real abusive parents are. I'm sure some teens will find their dads lover ignoring them to be a form of child abuse I just happen to disagree.

I've already done this dance with you and you know my theory. I don't think she will end up being the villian in this story. I've said I could be wrong, but that's the way I'm leaning. As far as ignoring and avoiding equaling abuse sorry that's going way to far. Most teenagers are not trying to spend any time with their family anyway. He was fed and looked after not tied up in the basement and beaten. I wouldn't even go as far as to call it neglect. It certainly wouldn't meet the legal standard for charging them with neglect. He wasn't loved by her, but she wasn't his mother so not really a crime. You can say mistreated to a point, and I'm certainly not pretending she was a saint. She was not good to him that doesn't make her a demon.

I've encountered far worse in my life... I am not saying this is egregious just that it isn't exactly benign. Truth is we have no idea what age the MC was when it started and the extent of the "ignoring". Ignoring a child or young teen who is injured, sick, or in anyway in pain/needing medical attention can be considered neglect. We don't know that the MC was ever in a situation like that so it makes no sense to assume that she did ignore something of that nature. Just pointing out that "ignoring" a person can be harmful.

The truth is there are so many people the MC can choose from in this game that I see no reason for him to be interested in any overtures towards repairing their "relationship" (if they can really be said to have one). I don't see a reason for the MC to trust her, in that nothing she has done so far makes her really trustworthy, which is the entire nature of the story. We are supposed to doubt everyone until the final reveal of the will. Of the MILF characters I just find Elaine the least worthy of the MC's time. Obviously, just my opinion.

 

[Ghostface Reborn]

I've seen first hand what real abusive parents are. I'm sure some teens will find their dads lover ignoring them to be a form of child abuse I just happen to disagree.

that is what's called emotional abuse.

 

[WhiteyG]

I've encountered far worse in my life... I am not saying this is egregious just that it isn't exactly benign. Truth is we have no idea what age the MC was when it started and the extent of the "ignoring". Ignoring a child or young teen who is injured, sick, or in anyway in pain/needing medical attention can be considered neglect. We don't know that the MC was ever in a situation like that so it makes no sense to assume that she did ignore something of that nature. Just pointing out that "ignoring" a person can be harmful.

The truth is there are so many people the MC can choose from in this game that I see no reason for him to be interested in any overtures towards repairing their "relationship" (if they can really be said to have one). I don't see a reason for the MC to trust her, in that nothing she has done so far makes her really trustworthy, which is the entire nature of the story. We are supposed to doubt everyone until the final reveal of the will. Of the MILF characters I just find Elaine the least worthy of the MC's time. Obviously, just my opinion.

That would be making a really large assumption to say she ignored him when he was sick or injured we have no indication of that ever happening, so I would have to assume the opposite. Yes if that was the case you could call it neglect and abuse, but as of now there is nothing in this game that says anything like that. His father didn't wanted him coddled there is a big difference between that and ignoring a sick or injured child.

that is what's called emotional abuse.

Once again you guys are really trying to make her out to be something she is not. At least something we have been given any indication that she is, and I don't believe it will ever be revealed that she was like that. His father you could say emotionally abused him if he bullied him at all the way he said his father always bullied people, but we have nothing that says Elaine ever said a harsh word to him at all.

 

[Ghostface Reborn]

That would be making a really large assumption to say she ignored him when he was sick or injured we have no indication of that ever happening, so I would have to assume the opposite. Yes if that was the case you could call it neglect and abuse, but as of now there is nothing in this game that says anything like that. His father didn't wanted him coddled there is a big difference between that and ignoring a sick or injured child.



Once again you guys are really trying to make her out to be something she is not. At least something we have been given any indication that she is, and I don't believe it will ever be revealed that she was like that. His father you could say emotionally abused him if he bullied him at all the way he said his father always bullied people, but we have nothing that says Elaine ever said a harsh word to him at all.

Emotional abuse is any type of abuse that involves the continual emotional mistreatment of a child. It's sometimes called psychological abuse. Emotional abuse can involve deliberately trying to scare, humiliate, isolate or ignore a child.

 

[MrFriendly]

That would be making a really large assumption to say she ignored him when he was sick or injured we have no indication of that ever happening, so I would have to assume the opposite. Yes if that was the case you could call it neglect and abuse, but as of now there is nothing in this game that says anything like that. His father didn't wanted him coddled there is a big difference between that and ignoring a sick or injured child.



Once again you guys are really trying to make her out to be something she is not. At least something we have been given any indication that she is, and I don't believe it will ever be revealed that she was like that. His father you could say emotionally abused him if he bullied him at all the way he said his father always bullied people, but we have nothing that says Elaine ever said a harsh word to him at all.

And we have nothing to say she wasn't either... We have a lack of proof of her being a good or a bad person. She was purposely created that way so we could form our own opinions. I based my opinion on how she was in the beginning of the game, not how she was 10 updates later (or whatever it was). The old saying about having only one chance to make a good first impression thing. Elaine had years to try to show she was a good person to the MC and didn't have a change of heart until it was too late for me to want to change my opinion of her.

The only issue I have with the writing of the game is the nebulous nature of Don's "assholeness". Everyone except for Elaine agrees that Don was an asshole, he is called an asshole by a few of the characters, but we don't know anything about how he was other than the custody battle/keeping the MC away from Monica/the fact that Don had cheated on the MC's mom. We don't know if Don was emotionally, verbally, or physically abusive... We don't know if Elaine stood by while Don yelled at, beat, or in some other way abused the MC. Elaine is guilty by association but we don't even know what she is "associated" with in the years the MC was living at home with his dad. If the dad wasn't abusive in anyway then is he an asshole only for the past events and the will conditions?

 

[WhiteyG]

Emotional abuse is any type of abuse that involves the continual emotional mistreatment of a child. It's sometimes called psychological abuse. Emotional abuse can involve deliberately trying to scare, humiliate, isolate or ignore a child.

Yes but once again that would fall more on his father. You guys are just reading into the story and making assumptions. We don't have any proof that anything like that happened. If you don't like Elaine or don't want to trust Elaine cool it doesn't matter to me, but to jump to abuse without having actual evidence of it happening sorry that's to far. I get it you don't like her feel she didn't treat the MC well okay I can see that, but don't take it to the extreme. You can call her and the father bad parents but child abuse is just to much to jump to without knowing it actually happened. We didn't play out the MC's childhood we don't really know what it was like it that house. And since this topic has gotten really depressing here's something to liven it up.

 

[Ghostface Reborn]

Yes but once again that would fall more on his father. You guys are just reading into the story and making assumptions. We don't have any proof that anything like that happened. If you don't like Elaine or don't want to trust Elaine cool it doesn't matter to me, but to jump to abuse without having actual evidence of it happening sorry that's to far. I get it you don't like her feel she didn't treat the MC well okay I can see that, but don't take it to the extreme. You can call her and the father bad parents but child abuse is just to much to jump to without knowing it actually happened. We didn't play out the MC's childhood we don't really know what it was like it that house. And since this topic has gotten really depressing here's something to liven it up.

View attachment 1160034

you're trying to put it all on the father-like he programed her or used some sort've mind control on her. she made the decision to do so. we know she ignored him, we know she was a bitch to him, we know she threatened to throw his things away. the mc was was clear on how she treated him and she made no excuse except she did so for material gain-which likely was the reason why she slept with a married man. yes, she did so at the father's demand-but she made the choice to do so for material gain.

 

[Ghostface Reborn]

We all bare responsibility for our own actions.

 

[Avaron1974]

we know she was a bitch to him,

No, she wasn't.

She avoided him.

There was no abuse, emotional or otherwise. As far as the Mc is concerned, she was a woman his dad was fucking. He knew she wasn't his mother, he was old enough to know what was going on.

There was no abuse, she wasn't a bitch to him she just stayed out of his way so she couldn't coddle him like her lover told her to.

You keep laying it on far thicker than it actually was.

I would've given you a thumbs up there, but that felt really wrong. But I do agree that's far from being abuse. Unfortunately I know a little something about that too. Well abusive parent not parents. At least I had one good one.

I'll put it in a spoiler, not everyone cares about other peoples childhoods but just to clarify my point on shitty parents and give a bit of context to my argument.

Spoiler: spoiler, sob story

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I know there are kids that have been through a hell of a lot worse. I've heard stories that make me sound lucky but it's down to those i'll never be able to see someone not related to young adult just avoiding them as abusive. Shitty, sure but not abusive.

 

[Ghostface Reborn]

No, she wasn't.

She avoided him.

There was no abuse, emotional or otherwise. As far as the Mc is concerned, she was a woman his dad was fucking. He knew she wasn't his mother, he was old enough to know what was going on.

There was no abuse, she wasn't a bitch to him she just stayed out of his way so she couldn't coddle him like her lover told her to.

You keep laying it on far thicker than it actually was.

she even admitted that she was a bitch. from her own admission-your defense of her falls flat.

 

[Ariostebaldo]

No, she wasn't.

Only if you think that throwing him out of his house and throwing his things away is not being a bitch.

 

[Crippy]

Holy cow...we - collectively - have covered every spectrum. My opinion...and just my opinion...abuse means a 1000 different things and can be administered a 1000 different ways. Every one is right - regardless. Hitting is abuse and so is ignoring. Harsh words are abuse and so is silence...etc - etc - etc.

That is probably one of the most important things/enjoyments about this game...and HUGE shout out to the devs. We get to express our opinions, thoughts, ideas and beliefs. We get to engage and enjoy the banter that goes back and forth. We get to inject our own personal experiences which also drives our emotions.

 

[Ghostface Reborn]

Holy cow...we - collectively - have covered every spectrum. My opinion...and just my opinion...abuse means a 1000 different things and can be administered a 1000 different ways. Every one is right - regardless. Hitting is abuse and so is ignoring. Harsh words are abuse and so is silence...etc - etc - etc.

i could not agree more. hell, i've experienced all but sexual-which i think is far worse for a guy.

 

[Ghostface Reborn]

And we have nothing to say she wasn't either... We have a lack of proof of her being a good or a bad person. She was purposely created that way so we could form our own opinions. I based my opinion on how she was in the beginning of the game, not how she was 10 updates later (or whatever it was). The old saying about having only one chance to make a good first impression thing. Elaine had years to try to show she was a good person to the MC and didn't have a change of heart until it was too late for me to want to change my opinion of her.

The only issue I have with the writing of the game is the nebulous nature of Don's "assholeness". Everyone except for Elaine agrees that Don was an asshole, he is called an asshole by a few of the characters, but we don't know anything about how he was other than the custody battle/keeping the MC away from Monica/the fact that Don had cheated on the MC's mom. We don't know if Don was emotionally, verbally, or physically abusive... We don't know if Elaine stood by while Don yelled at, beat, or in some other way abused the MC. Elaine is guilty by association but we don't even know what she is "associated" with in the years the MC was living at home with his dad. If the dad wasn't abusive in anyway then is he an asshole only for the past events and the will conditions?

We know he was emotionally and verbally abusive-we saw what he had to say about the MC.