- Thread starter UncleVT
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- Jul 10, 2017
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Ah! Awesome!
Great work you guys! This game is amazing. I hope there are still quite a lot of episodes coming. I just don't want this crazy ride to end!
- Jun 4, 2022
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Sure, you have all the choice. But from a gameplay perspective things can get pretty... uneventful... if you focus on the one you want to end up with because all the many characters only have so many interactions with the MC. And with a game that is as long as WTHI that can become a bit boring. This is not Haley's Story or Melody where you can easily focus on one woman and still have a game that makes sense with plenty of interactions and dialogue with that one character.
Also, in one chapter, where you are first asked who your number 1 choice for romantic partner would be... (and number 2)... the inner monologue heavily encourages you to still go after everyone. Implying a Harem ending that - for all we know - will not happen (and if wouldn't make sense given how the characters are, I wouldn't go for the harem even if there was an option, it feels wrong here in this game).
So the game goes out if its way to encourage you to pursue all...
- Oct 15, 2018
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I think that's mostly because an MC that bangs every LI pretty comes across as a psychopath; Lots of insincere charm, no trouble in lying on the spot and doesn't feel a twinge of guilt for deceiving and playing with the emotions of the people close to him.
He's basically what his father would be if he was young, good looking and hung. So it's not a surprise his inner monologue wants him to pursue every women.
- Jun 4, 2022
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I thought the same... at several times it's pointed out how the father was a cheating bastard... and the MC is maybe somewhat less of a bastard (not as controlling or outright evil, he tries to make the girls happy) but still very much a cheater. The MC also tends to say whatever an LI wants to hear, instead of being sincere, like the visit to the dinosaur museum with Jenna, just pretending to like things... not a fan of this at all.
I wonder if the story will explore this a bit more, maybe the MC will have an epiphany towards the end where he realizes he's in danger of becoming dad 2.0 and that this is what convinces him to stop the shenanigans and settle down with the LI(s) of his choice. I.e. I would prefer it if it's the MCs own decision (via the player) to commit to just one (or two/three) LIs instead of being pressured into it by the women. Just like you can decide to say "screw dad and his twisted will, to hell with the money, I choose love".
So much of that is also based on player input. You can be entirely faithful (even if the game is not meant to be played this way, in my opinion, it encourages you to pursue all characters). But as I said in an earlier post, focusing on only one or two major love interests will give you long stretches of just dialogue and zero action, in fact, if you don't pursue Monica and don't care for random eyecandy the entire carnival episode would be one huge borefest. I ignored Mabel (after quickly checking out what content that is I reloaded a save and then ignored her), it's a pity she's one of the more attractive character models in this game and that she's entirely wasted as a random distraction. An MC who goes on a date with Monica and jumps on Mabel is absolutely a sleazeball like the father. So it only makes sense to flirt with Mabel and have fun with her if most major LIs (especially Monica, Katie and Jenna) are just friends. Unless someone wants the MC to be a sociopath. Same with the neighbor who throws herself at the MC after the scene with Monica... But the good thing is... you always have a choice.
I believe there is some inner monologue where the MC at least admits he's an asshole if you pursue them all. So I think there is hope for him
- Jul 22, 2021
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- May 17, 2020
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I don't understand your reasoning so much.... Mc does what we make him do, if at the museum the mere idea of dinosaurs gives you hives you can say so, you will lose a few RPs with Jenna, probably irrelevant, what's the big deal? but to say you like them would be to the worst lie you've told to a woman you were interested in? you got lucky...I thought the same... at several times it's pointed out how the father was a cheating bastard... and the MC is maybe somewhat less of a bastard (not as controlling or outright evil, he tries to make the girls happy) but still very much a cheater. The MC also tends to say whatever an LI wants to hear, instead of being sincere, like the visit to the dinosaur museum with Jenna, just pretending to like things... not a fan of this at all.
I wonder if the story will explore this a bit more, maybe the MC will have an epiphany towards the end where he realizes he's in danger of becoming dad 2.0 and that this is what convinces him to stop the shenanigans and settle down with the LI(s) of his choice. I.e. I would prefer it if it's the MCs own decision (via the player) to commit to just one (or two/three) LIs instead of being pressured into it by the women. Just like you can decide to say "screw dad and his twisted will, to hell with the money, I choose love".
So much of that is also based on player input. You can be entirely faithful (even if the game is not meant to be played this way, in my opinion, it encourages you to pursue all characters). But as I said in an earlier post, focusing on only one or two major love interests will give you long stretches of just dialogue and zero action, in fact, if you don't pursue Monica and don't care for random eyecandy the entire carnival episode would be one huge borefest. I ignored Mabel (after quickly checking out what content that is I reloaded a save and then ignored her), it's a pity she's one of the more attractive character models in this game and that she's entirely wasted as a random distraction. An MC who goes on a date with Monica and jumps on Mabel is absolutely a sleazeball like the father. So it only makes sense to flirt with Mabel and have fun with her if most major LIs (especially Monica, Katie and Jenna) are just friends. Unless someone wants the MC to be a sociopath. Same with the neighbor who throws herself at the MC after the scene with Monica... But the good thing is... you always have a choice.
I believe there is some inner monologue where the MC at least admits he's an asshole if you pursue them all. So I think there is hope for him
small moments of crisis of conscience are already there in the story, when we can decide to close certain stories, it's up to the player to decide whether or not to listen to them
if you choose a righteous path, at that point there are very few temptations, a few complaints from the girls, but it tends to be that a closed road stays closed.
I like the fact that MC can also be a jerk if he wants to, with Elaine, with Monica, with Angel, with Jolina... pretty much with all of them
I like that at some point he can decide to go for the money and not give a damn about feelings. because being able to choose "badly" gives value to when you choose well
- Jun 4, 2022
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All I am trying to say is... yes, there is a LOT of choice. You can be faithful, you can be nice, you can be a greedy bastard and I appreciate it all very much! The number of choices in the game is exemplary! Almost nothing is forced on the player. I mean, what other game gives you options for minor things like "dirty talk" or "no dirty talk" here and there? You can even affect how other characters speak (Katie).
BUT: the game (in my opinion only of course) still heavily encourages you to go after as many women as possible, and if you don't... you are penalized with a lack of content. It's not a major nitpick, it's just an observation and it's nothing that really annoys me, it's just a pet peeve.
I just generally feel most VNs would greatly benefit from fewer LIs and fewer random encounters and instead more fleshed out main LIs with more scenes. I feel you are encouraged to be the sleazeball and liar and that can make you feel uneasy eventually, which is of course also a sign of good writing, you feel uneasy because of the writing (since the game more or less has the characters behave in believable ways when they find out certain things, they are upset, hurt, devastated etc). But again, it's nothing super major, just an observation. I felt like the worst person in the world when Jo found out about the spyware and how the scene then unfolded. Again, it's more praise really than anything else of course.
The movie night scene when you try to romance all three of the women in the house is also utter insanity in a very fun way, if you like juggling chainsaws... but also highlights the fact what a complete ass the MC has become (or you, the player). And if you really manage to focus on just 1-3 characters... you miss out on so much. That is maybe only something for the 2nd playthrough. Who wants to play a game only to never see 70+% of the content? People play these games to see as much content as possible?
If you do it here... it can make you feel uneasy because the game is more realistic than the usual power fantasies. Which is absolutely not a bad thing, the opposite. But maybe a game (any game) shouldn't encourage the Pokemon approach then and make it a lot more satisfying to just go after 1-3 LIs? Instead you meet Mabel and Porsche (both very attractive, probably more attractive than most main characters), you have characters like Wanda and Angel which do nothing really for the main story (they are lots of fun of course, but not essential), you have the super thirsty neighbor, the religious nutjob Theresa etc. and because of the number of characters in the game there are long stretches where you will never interact with any of your favorite characters. If you also ignore Monica (to focus on the sisters) you get even less content. Who wants that from a pure gameplay perspective? So you will engage with them all in the end. Or most at least. Which in turn makes the MC an asshole. I ditched Monica before movie night (I reloaded), it was too much for me
If the writing was worse, if it was the stereotypical power fantasy with paper thin characters none of that would be of any concern, but since the characters are much better written than in many other games it does matter, I think.
About the points... you never know how many points you need for anything, you are absolutely encouraged to give the "best" reply with the most points, as in any other game with a points system. There is a tracker for the points for a reason. Especially early in the game on any path I would assume most people are concerned with maxing out points so you don't accidentally lock out a character or a scene, it doesn't matter as much later in the game when certain relationship statuses have been locked in. It's never revealed in the game how many points you need for anything or ff the points even matter at all.
already an incest/WT mod that rewrites the story/dialog to make incest work (mom isn't dead, just living in other house you move to with MC's 2 sisters). Too bad it's usually an episode behind the latest release (ep21 for now, won't work for ep22).
You mean like in real life? Where if you make it a numbers game you will get to go on more dates and experiences instead of just shooting your shot twice and maybe get nothing? And if you string lots of women along you will get shit eventually? Gasp!
I understand your complaint about the content, but honestly it's a bit of a moot point. More options means more replayability. I like that we have all these options. I like that the devs throw in subtle little changes along the way as well. It shows how dedicated they are to the game. I can't imagine keeping track of everything this far into the story.
Instead of banging everyone, having to actually choose carefully makes the interactions with the characters MUCH more impactful too, it puts them a peg above the characters of other games.
I honestly can't really think of anything I would like them to change. They have a pretty great formula and structure going on as it is.
- Jun 4, 2022
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This is certainly true. Almost all characters are much better written than in most other games I have played. As I mentioned before, that scene with Jo when she finds out about the software on her laptop and Jenna's snooping was pretty impactful.
Yet the game still eggs you on to go after all of them (for example via MC's inner monologue), maybe out of mischief so you see how things can blow up. Movie night was funny... but things can become nuclear very easily and then you feel like the complete idiot you are, because yes, the game does give you more than enough hints. The dialogue choices when Katie and Monica are both in your room (Monica in the bathroom) after movie night are hilarious, when the MC hopes this may be one of the situations with typical VN porn logic and a threesome is one of the dialogue options.
That being said, the game is generally very nice to players, you are provided with various exit points to break up and still keep things friendly, so once you realize that building a harem may be the worst idea ever, you can begin to focus on the characters you care about the most. I wonder how many do that or how many players still try to pursue almost everyone.
- Oct 15, 2018
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Hehe... To try and put your mind at ease. We and the MC are definitely not "trying" to get you into trouble, but that doesn't always mean what the MC thinks is a good idea, actually is. Definitely use your own judgement. But as far as egging you on to go after everyone... We did actually encourage that for the majority of the game for several reasons. The number 1 being it is the easiest way to see all the content and it was easy to dodge getting caught. Even so a lot of players had separate playthroughs because they saw what can happen if you get caught. We also have been sending a lot of signals now about starting to sort your relationships, or be ready for risk.
We also have provided a nice quickstart option for people who need it (or just want to see other content they avoided), as we are getting near the end... The player has to make some choices on who he really wants to end up with, or try and add multiples to his polyamory basket and hope it doesn't sour some of the other delicious girls inside. There are multi girl endings, but not all girls are down with that, and some may not be compatible together, some require a lot of work to convince, etc. Most of all, you can break some hearts, and even trying to make it work requires a bit of moral elasticity. lol
As for penalizing you for not going after everyone... well that is a bit of a glass half empty way of saying you want more content with the girls you prefer, but I'm afraid as I said before, we aren't a dating sim. We are telling a story, and some girls have more involvement in that than others. But I like to think when you consider that girls who were never more than side arcs/girls can still be endgame LI's (and have the content at present to allow that to be belieavable), well I think we gave a lot overall. Not many games have our amount of content or episodes, and none have our depth of choice, but I might be biased.
- Mar 19, 2018
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Which i greatly appriecate i only play as a manwhore at the beginning of games because i have no idea who anyone is yet. So i pursue eveyone to figure out who my solo routes will be once we get to know everyone.Hehe... To try and put your mind at ease. We and the MC are definitely not "trying" to get you into trouble, but that doesn't always mean what the MC thinks is a good idea, actually is. Definitely use your own judgement. But as far as egging you on to go after everyone... We did actually encourage that for the majority of the game for several reasons. The number 1 being it is the easiest way to see all the content and it was easy to dodge getting caught. Even so a lot of players had separate playthroughs because they saw what can happen if you get caught. We also have been sending a lot of signals now about starting to sort your relationships, or be ready for risk.
We also have provided a nice quickstart option for people who need it (or just want to see other content they avoided), as we are getting near the end... The player has to make some choices on who he really wants to end up with, or try and add multiples to his polyamory basket and hope it doesn't sour some of the other delicious girls inside. There are multi girl endings, but not all girls are down with that, and some may not be compatible together, some require a lot of work to convince, etc. Most of all, you can break some hearts, and even trying to make it work requires a bit of moral elasticity. lol
As for penalizing you for not going after everyone... well that is a bit of a glass half empty way of saying you want more content with the girls you prefer, but I'm afraid as I said before, we aren't a dating sim. We are telling a story, and some girls have more involvement in that than others. But I like to think when you consider that girls who were never more than side arcs/girls can still be endgame LI's (and have the content at present to allow that to be belieavable), well I think we gave a lot overall. Not many games have our amount of content or episodes, and none have our depth of choice, but I might be biased.
Not biased at all. I'm all caught up with WTHI and trying some other titles now. The quality difference is staggering, from character design and writing to the amount of choices and even the writing quality of the story itself.As for penalizing you for not going after everyone... well that is a bit of a glass half empty way of saying you want more content with the girls you prefer, but I'm afraid as I said before, we aren't a dating sim. We are telling a story, and some girls have more involvement in that than others. But I like to think when you consider that girls who were never more than side arcs/girls can still be endgame LI's (and have the content at present to allow that to be belieavable), well I think we gave a lot overall. Not many games have our amount of content or episodes, and none have our depth of choice, but I might be biased.
WTHI might not be a dating simulator, but by gawd do you guys do a better job with it than most of the full fledged DS I have played. Especially because you actually include side characters as LIs which caters to a majority of tastes.
Can't wait to see what you guys have up your sleeves next, for chapters as well as new titles when this story unfortunately reaches it's end.
- Jun 4, 2022
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This is not biased in my opinion. WTHI is exemplary when it comes to character depth and depth of choices. Nothing, literally nothing, is ever forced on the player. You can even screw all characters over and go for the money if you are a heartless psychopath like the dad
And though I moaned about the lack of content if you are on a true solo path, I do of course still very much appreciate the general approach, it's certainly a daunting task if you wanted to replay WTHI from scratch to explore other paths, that game is LONG. So giving players the option to pursue everyone up to a certain point is certainly the best choice from a pure gameplay perspective. And then you get hints that you may have to show some restraint. It's up to the player to pick up on those (very obvious) hints. I still laugh at seeing Monica barge in with her nurse costume while Katie is grinding on the MC. All the chainsaw juggling eventually resulted in a few lost limbs after all
And still, it's easily remedied... And the episode quickstart is a real boon if you want to check out other paths before you return to your main savegame.
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- May 17, 2020
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I understand better now.All I am trying to say is... yes, there is a LOT of choice. You can be faithful, you can be nice, you can be a greedy bastard and I appreciate it all very much! The number of choices in the game is exemplary! Almost nothing is forced on the player. I mean, what other game gives you options for minor things like "dirty talk" or "no dirty talk" here and there? You can even affect how other characters speak (Katie).
BUT: the game (in my opinion only of course) still heavily encourages you to go after as many women as possible, and if you don't... you are penalized with a lack of content. It's not a major nitpick, it's just an observation and it's nothing that really annoys me, it's just a pet peeve.
I just generally feel most VNs would greatly benefit from fewer LIs and fewer random encounters and instead more fleshed out main LIs with more scenes. I feel you are encouraged to be the sleazeball and liar and that can make you feel uneasy eventually, which is of course also a sign of good writing, you feel uneasy because of the writing (since the game more or less has the characters behave in believable ways when they find out certain things, they are upset, hurt, devastated etc). But again, it's nothing super major, just an observation. I felt like the worst person in the world when Jo found out about the spyware and how the scene then unfolded. Again, it's more praise really than anything else of course.
The movie night scene when you try to romance all three of the women in the house is also utter insanity in a very fun way, if you like juggling chainsaws... but also highlights the fact what a complete ass the MC has become (or you, the player). And if you really manage to focus on just 1-3 characters... you miss out on so much. That is maybe only something for the 2nd playthrough. Who wants to play a game only to never see 70+% of the content? People play these games to see as much content as possible?
If you do it here... it can make you feel uneasy because the game is more realistic than the usual power fantasies. Which is absolutely not a bad thing, the opposite. But maybe a game (any game) shouldn't encourage the Pokemon approach then and make it a lot more satisfying to just go after 1-3 LIs? Instead you meet Mabel and Porsche (both very attractive, probably more attractive than most main characters), you have characters like Wanda and Angel which do nothing really for the main story (they are lots of fun of course, but not essential), you have the super thirsty neighbor, the religious nutjob Theresa etc. and because of the number of characters in the game there are long stretches where you will never interact with any of your favorite characters. If you also ignore Monica (to focus on the sisters) you get even less content. Who wants that from a pure gameplay perspective? So you will engage with them all in the end. Or most at least. Which in turn makes the MC an asshole. I ditched Monica before movie night (I reloaded), it was too much for me
If the writing was worse, if it was the stereotypical power fantasy with paper thin characters none of that would be of any concern, but since the characters are much better written than in many other games it does matter, I think.
About the points... you never know how many points you need for anything, you are absolutely encouraged to give the "best" reply with the most points, as in any other game with a points system. There is a tracker for the points for a reason. Especially early in the game on any path I would assume most people are concerned with maxing out points so you don't accidentally lock out a character or a scene, it doesn't matter as much later in the game when certain relationship statuses have been locked in. It's never revealed in the game how many points you need for anything or ff the points even matter at all.
and in some respects I agree with you. so many LIs, they mean either micro content for each one at each chapter or a minimum of turn-around at least for the more minor ones. and I say all this as a fan of Lily, my only waifu in the game.
however, finding the right balance is really tricky, even with a few LIs, the importance of content for each of them in each chapter is unlikely to be fair, there will always be cycles that overwhelmingly take over and others that get crushed. moreover, almost every time I've played an AVN with one LI clearly being the main one over the others, I've had that feeling of arranged marriage that annoyed me anyway.
a game like WTHI gives you the illusion of choice, if you really want to cultivate the dream of living with lots of money and two models by your side (Wanda + Angel) you can do that, sure you will have many half-empty chapters, but I don't see it as a big deal between mechanism to decide where to start and the fact that you can skip what you have already seen.
other point on which you are basically right is that the game pushes you to feel out the field with more girls, this is clearly in the interest of the writer of the story, as we know at the end that there will be several showdowns, and it is true that to date MC has managed to get away with the most impossible situations, which gives us a false sense of security, but I still chickened out already at the first opportunity, when Monica bursts into the room with Wanda hiding under the desk...
one point I less agree with you on is the anxiety about the perfect score, it's nonsense, if there was no report at the end of the chapter having a guide would become too important, but we know you don't need perfect scores, but in case even we find ourselves in the case of "your score doesn't allow you to..." peace, restarting from that chapter with all the requirements ok. WTHI is a game that is experienced without great anxiety, that is its beauty
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- Sep 20, 2018
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I don't think the game encourages us to cheat on everyone with everyone, at least not directly. The MC's internal dialog aside, the game is pretty even handed about the many opportunities we face: we know we can try it, but it's also made clear there are reasons trying it might end badly. It's definitely up to us how much trouble we're willing to court.
That said, I do think the game tends to assume we have been sleeping around. There's rarely alternate dialog (much less an alternate scene) to handle situations where a would-be trap is entirely harmless. For example, even if the MC never had anything to do with Katie, Lily or Debbie - even if he left in the middle of the beach house sleepover - he'll still **Gulp** (and monologue about needing OJ's defense team) when Katie asks to talk with him the next morning.
In the grand scheme this sort of thing isn't really a big deal, but when it happens consistently it does contribute to the sense that a solo run is playing the game 'wrong.' It's rare that the game acknowledges an MC who has been entirely above board; avoiding the big orgy by declaring love for Debbie or Lily alone is the only major occurrence I can think of so far. Otherwise, things tend to play out as if the MC has something to hide regardless of what his actual situation is. Even seemingly loyal actions, like declaring his commitment to Katie in Episode 20, are undermined by the way the MC will behave exactly the same when he intends to talk Debbie and Lily into continuing their respective affairs in private. Sure, our choices can technically prove our words true, but how important is that when the game will still react as though we had our fingers crossed?
I'd love it if the game had more chances for the MC to commit proactively to his chosen path. Imagine how different the game would feel if an MC who was only dating Lily called her to set up the date in Episode 22 rather than the scene everyone else gets where she reminds him of his promise. Even if the rest of the conversation and subsequent date played out the same either way, it would instantly make the solo path feel distinct and meaningful.
Now the reality is that would require a whole bunch of additional code to handle extra branches; it's arguably a poor use of resources given how few players are likely to play solo routes. So I'm willing to pick my battles. As long as the game will ultimately let us play a loyal solo path through our actions, I can live with the fact that the MC will adopt the sketchiest possible portrayal of loyalty he can find.
But if the devs happen to encounter a low cost opportunity to highlight when an MC has taken a path less traveled, I hope they'll seize it.
All praise the quick start system!
That said, I have noticed one awkward thing about it: when the game asks us additional questions after setting the basic quick start parameters, those questions are specific to the episode being started. There's no sense of continuity. For example, Episode 22 asks us if we did anything with Mabel at the carnival in Episode 18, because Mabel appears in Episode 22. But if you started Episode 21 instead, the game won't ask because the information wasn't relevant then. This means that if you continue that quick start into Episode 22, you'll never get to choose what happened with Mabel because the game never asks you.
Instead of coding each episode with specific list of questions, it would be nice if each question was flagged with the episode in which it first becomes relevant. That way the game could run through a single list of all the questions and ask the ones that matter. From the above example, the question about Mabel would be asked when starting any episode after 18. For bonus points you could also list an episode where the question stops being relevant (so that if, say, Mabel was dropped from the game after Episode 22, you wouldn't need to ask about her in subsequent episodes).
Then again, I have no idea how much programming time that would take. Maybe it's not worth worrying about when we're closing in on the end?
I think you do a good job handling the vast amount of choices in the game. The cast is too large to add alternative content for every rejected opportunity. Even if you somehow did, people who also skipped the alternative would be right back in same boat. Less eventful episodes is an unavoidable consequence of rejecting opportunities. The question is how to make the choice feel relevant despite the lowered runtime. As I said above, I think the best way to compensate is to add a few small tweaks to normal dialog/art that acknowledges the difference when such alternatives are feasible.As for penalizing you for not going after everyone... well that is a bit of a glass half empty way of saying you want more content with the girls you prefer, but I'm afraid as I said before, we aren't a dating sim. We are telling a story, and some girls have more involvement in that than others. But I like to think when you consider that girls who were never more than side arcs/girls can still be endgame LI's (and have the content at present to allow that to be belieavable), well I think we gave a lot overall. Not many games have our amount of content or episodes, and none have our depth of choice, but I might be biased.
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